RolePlay onLine RPoL Logo

, welcome to Star-Seekers

21:49, 28th March 2024 (GMT+0)

Ship Ahoy.

Posted by StarMasterFor group 0
Walter Zeller
player, 225 posts
Merchant/Noble
Mon 21 Sep 2015
at 20:57
  • msg #115

Re: Ship Ahoy

The number crunching can be done on a separate board so that it does not slow down the pace.

Since we are jump two with a 160 ton cargo hull, we might get missions to transport bulky cargo like drives for the scouts/navy rather than speculation ones, or we jump in, find a disabled scout craft and asked to take it back (or better yet, find it empty with a clutch of eggs...).

As for Darrell's patron, most likely it would be the Imperium. Word might have gotten back to an Imperial agent already and wants to have a little chat with him concerning what was found.

(Looking over the Corsair check to see if it was modified with fuel processors as it will get real expensive to take up with refined fuel (or we can take the -2 to jumps and see where we end up))
Kaengarr Ruzokh
player, 44 posts
Vargr
Mon 21 Sep 2015
at 21:31
  • msg #116

Re: Ship Ahoy

  EDIT: Okay, the corsair lacks scoops and processors. The processors aren't very expensive (50,000 cr), although they do take up one ton of cargo space. Adding scoops doesn't use up any space but is more expensive (1,000,000 cr).

  Even if we can't afford the scoops right now (there's something for our first million...) the processors are a good investment since they'll let us buy unrefined fuel without creating a jump hazard.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:12, Mon 21 Sept 2015.
Kheaiftouaw
player, 251 posts
Mon 21 Sep 2015
at 22:01
  • msg #117

Re: Ship Ahoy

Does it even have fuel scoops? A corsair is not streamlined.
Adding them might be a bigger modification as the hull has to be cut open. That might go above the capabilities of a C starport. But we could get to Oupost in one jump and have an "adventure" there while the ship is in the drydock.

Alternatively we can get a Modular Cutter with a customized open module (scoops and processor). But that is expensive and takes a lot of cargo space. But we will have more fuel so we can do a 2-1 jump.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:11, Mon 21 Sept 2015.
Walter Zeller
player, 226 posts
Merchant/Noble
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 04:23
  • msg #118

Re: Ship Ahoy

As a thought, if for example the patron wants us to check out things at Planet D, we can make trades behind the scenes at Planet B and C, using the trading as cover for our actions on Planet D.

(We can see about getting it taken care of at Outpost since we might need to pay a social call at the naval base)
Kaengarr Ruzokh
player, 45 posts
Vargr
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 04:50
  • msg #119

Re: Ship Ahoy

  The corsair won't have scoops by default, so we'd need to add those at the 1 Mcr cost. We don't have to do that right now though - just paying the 50,000 cr to have on-board refining is worth it though because it cuts our fuel cost from 500/ton to 100/ton, and the corsair uses a lot of fuel (80 tons) when jumping.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:50, Tue 22 Sept 2015.
Darrel Cromwell
player, 334 posts
Noble (Count)
Retired actor
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 14:44
  • msg #120

Re: Ship Ahoy

The more I think about it, it might be better to hold off on a ship until we reach a location that provides a larger selection of ships. An A class starport, a higher tech level, a subsector capital with perhaps military bases, something on the main jumplines...etc.

There´s a number of locations that meet ALL those requirements. One place that sticks out in my mind, Carrill  Reaver's Deep 2330 A0009AE-E. It´s 2(X2) jumps away. One of the highest tech levels in the local area.
Walter Zeller
player, 227 posts
Merchant/Noble
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 16:05
  • msg #121

Re: Ship Ahoy

Unless we plan on a custom built vessel, we have all kinds of options here on Grendal.

100 Ton Courier-class Jump-2/Maneuver-2 Cargo 8 Streamlined
200 Ton Elegant-Class Yacht Light Fantastic Jump-1/Maneuver-1 Cargo 21 No Scoops
400 Ton Aggressor-Class Corsair Eternal Knight Jump-2/Maneuver-3 Cargo 160 No Scoops
200 Ton Animal-Class Safari Ship Jaguar Jump-2/Maneuver-1 Cargo 2 Streamlined?
200 Ton Modified Type A2 Far Trader (I guess Jump-2/Maneuver-1 Cargo?) Streamlined
(Not sure on the Devastator-Class Heavy Assault Ship Night Thunder)

If we want to go small, the Far Trader will work and we will not have to worry about landing on planets. (The courier is too small for this size of the group)

The Corsair will work as it gives us lots of options for role playing and if needed we can add a modular cutter for transporting cargo to the surface.

The yacht has very short legs, limiting our options and the Safari Ship looks far to specialized. (And unless we plan on starting a mercenary company, the Heavy Assault Ship is way too much for our needs).

(For a wish list, a 400 ton streamlined with about the cargo capacity of the Corsair and 4 turrets would be great.)
Kaengarr Ruzokh
player, 46 posts
Vargr
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 16:19
  • msg #122

Re: Ship Ahoy

  The corsair isn't streamlined, but it can land. It has a standard hull, not a distributed one, so it's just a little more difficult to pilot in an atmosphere.
Sharik Kaagira
player, 178 posts
Freelance: ex-IISS, ex-IN
Serious about recreation
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 16:37
  • msg #123

Re: Ship Ahoy

Traveller Core Rulebook, p. 106:
Configuration
A ship may have any of three configurations – standard (a wedge,
cone, sphere or cylinder), streamlined (a wing, disc or other lifting
body allowing it to enter the atmosphere easily) or distributed (made
up of several sections, and incapable of entering an atmosphere or
maintaining its shape under gravity).
    Streamlining a ship increases the cost of the hull by 10%. This
    streamlining includes fuel scoops which allow the skimming of
    unrefined fuel from gas giants or the gathering of water from open
    lakes or oceans. Streamlining may not be retrofitted; it must be
    included at the time of construction.

    A distributed ship reduces the cost of its hull by 10%. It is completely
    non-aerodynamic and if it enters an atmosphere or strong gravity it
    runs the risk of falling to the surface of the planet. It cannot mount
    fuel scoops.

    A standard-hull ship may still enter atmosphere but is very ungainly
    and ponderous, capable only of making a controlled glide to the
    surface. Getting it back into space requires an elaborate launch
    setup and considerable expense.
    A standard-hull ship may have
    scoops for gathering fuel from a gas giant but the process will be
    much more difficult and less efficient. Larger ships of this type
    will often carry a specialized sub-craft (such as a modular cutter,
    see page 135) to perform the actual atmospheric skimming. See
    Atmospheric Operations on page 137.

The italics emphasis in the standard-hull section is mine; but the upshot is that I am not sure that we want to try an land the corsair in anything but the most dire circumstances - it sounds more like a last ditch effort to me.

I believe that is a major disadvantage for a small troubleshooting crew like us.

I don't believe that a ship's hull can be retrofitted to be streamlined after the fact.
Kheaiftouaw
player, 252 posts
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 19:14
  • msg #124

Re: Ship Ahoy

The corsair is "only" -2 to land so not all that crippling when doing it at a starport. And if we really want to we can get a small craft too as the corsair can handle them. A modular cutter would also allow us to bypass the fuel scoop issue as it is streamlines and can have processors.

Downside is of course that we sacrifice cargo space and we have to leave the ship drifting empty in space when we all depart with the cutter or leave someone behind (imo not an option).

The safari ship looks nice on the outside in my opinion but sadly is full with unneeded and costly gadgets, especially the hydrid storage. It also has only 33 tons of cargo.
Enough if we only want to do trading as a side business, but not enough to be a good moneymaker on its own.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:22, Tue 22 Sept 2015.
Darrel Cromwell
player, 335 posts
Noble (Count)
Retired actor
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 19:50
  • msg #125

Re: Ship Ahoy

In reply to Walter Zeller (msg # 121):

True, there are a number of selections here, but, as you mentioned while listing those available...there are only 2 that could potentially meet our basic needs.

The reason why I brought it up.... There are a number of "standard" ships that would meet most of our ship wishlist, or at least be much better than our current limited options and realistically (Yea, I know, it´s science fiction) our chances of finding that type of ship improves considerably if we think logically (IE Use the game system mindset....if I want to find a white dragon I go into the coldest mountains around). ;-)

Plus, I admit I was sitting around looking at all the different ship choices (Core+supplements) and my brain said, "Jeez, if we had one of those...."

And, who knows, perhaps our search of a perfect ship might be a minor adventure in and of itself?

Quick edit note:
I realize alot of players don´t have all the books....I´m not talking about any of the "specialized" ships, the secret agent transwarp invisible thingy.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:05, Tue 22 Sept 2015.
Kheaiftouaw
player, 253 posts
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 20:00
  • msg #126

Re: Ship Ahoy

Keep in mind though that our current choices are really, really cheap. Our dream ship might not be.
Sharik Kaagira
player, 179 posts
Freelance: ex-IISS, ex-IN
Serious about recreation
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 20:07
  • msg #127

Re: Ship Ahoy

Kheaiftouaw:
The corsair is "only" -2 to land so not all that crippling when doing it at a starport...

Agreed, Khea, those mechanics don't seem that limiting at all.  Which makes me question the authors' use of the verbiage that they do on p. 106.  *shrug*  There is nothing listed for the launch/take-off procedures really.  Presumably, they are simply another -2 DM (Hard dDifficulty) piloting maneuver?  Hardly seems 'expensive'...
Kaengarr Ruzokh
player, 47 posts
Vargr
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 20:20
  • msg #128

Re: Ship Ahoy

  If you don't have a good pilot (or there's some relevant system damage) then getting the ship down and back up again might be a problem. It's the distributed ones that REALLY don't take well to atmospheric flight.

  Keeping a ship's boat or equivalent with us is an option but it'll eat up most of our cargo space, which isn't very helpful.
StarMaster
GM, 435 posts
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 20:37
  • msg #129

Re: Ship Ahoy

It does seem like they skimped a bit on that, but then they were probably leaving it up the Referee to come up with any details that suited him.

For instance, I've always gone with what I considered a 'sensible' approach to approaching a starport in a ship. Your ship has a transponder that transmits your ship name, ID, registration, captain's name of record, ownership, maintenance details, and medical status. This is automatic because these are important bits of information that a starport needs to know so that they don't blow you out of the ether!

Maintenance record is to make sure that your ship isn't going to blow up once it lands, and medical is to make sure you are bringing a plague to the planet.

If any of that information is missing, it will be requested from Space Traffic Control before they grant you permission to land. If any of the data is hinky, expect a visit from customs.


Same thing with take-offs and landings. Unless the Referee has a specific reason  for a Piloting skill check (such as a 'storm of the century'), then it's just everyday routine business.
Darrel Cromwell
player, 336 posts
Noble (Count)
Retired actor
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 20:42
  • msg #130

Re: Ship Ahoy

In reply to Kheaiftouaw (msg # 126):

Good point, from an ooc perspective...that might be part of the group dynamic....it´s like having a really fancy car, the payments are steep and no matter how well you get paid, there´s always that heavy deduction at the end of the month.

It´s like the inverse of Firefly....

Not to over analyze this, but a mediocre ship will be limited in job options because it is mediocre. When a well-heeled potential employer is looking to accomplish a task with certainty, they don´t seek out a vagabond group with some aged struggling ship, unless of course their trying to do it on the cheap. Risk versus benefit.

You need it done without fail, we will do it, but, we´re not cheap...

My point, how about we are the antithesis of the rusting, barely space-worthy struggling group...that´s something I haven´t seen recently...actually that´s a lie...the Dark Matter series seems based on that to a certain extent.
Kheaiftouaw
player, 254 posts
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 20:58
  • msg #131

Re: Ship Ahoy

Which comes back to what we want to do in the future.

We can't have it all (although some jack of all trades, master of none ships exists, just not here) we have to decide on what we want to be good at. Not only with a OOC analysis but also from a IC view.

Here is what I think, please add anything I missed or you disagree with.

OOC:

- We are in a Jump 1 pocket. To get out we need Jump 2
- We can only effectively crew ships up to 400 tons I guess
- We want fuel scoops and processors

IC:

- We have 2 nobles who have to keep up the status and likely also have higher personal needs then most and the ship has to account for that. Also, not all professions might be suitable for a noble.

In the end we have to decide how much we want to spend on offensive and defensive capabilities, trading, scouting/prospecting, personal luxuries, etc.
Once we agree on that we can decide which of the offered ships fits best or if we risk it to move on as passengers and try our luck elsewhere.
Kaengarr Ruzokh
player, 48 posts
Vargr
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 21:07
  • msg #132

Re: Ship Ahoy

  Trading is likely to be the primary source of funding for everything else, so we'll need to keep that foremost. Combat capabilities are useful mainly to dissuade pirates - the corsair won't withstand a serious firefight but it's tough enough that it won't be seen as an easy mark (unlike a Far Trader). Having a large cargo capacity also makes it easy to adapt it for other work as needed. We can easily install fuel processors, luxuries, etc, without making a serious dent in its hauling capacity, and carrying a ship's boat is also an option if the situation calls for it.

  True, there are specialized ships that might do specific things better, but that's only helpful if we're sure that that specific thing is all we want to do.


  As for the age of the ship: as long as it's in good condition there's no reason it can't be maintained and made to look nice both inside and out. Just because the typical corsair band probably doesn't care too much about appearances doesn't mean we can't!
Darrel Cromwell
player, 337 posts
Noble (Count)
Retired actor
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 21:47
  • msg #133

Re: Ship Ahoy

Combining the different thread elements.

- We are in a Jump 1 pocket. To get out we need Jump 2
- We can only effectively crew ships up to 400 tons I guess
- We want fuel scoops and processors.
- We have 2 nobles who have to keep up the status and likely also have higher personal needs then most and the ship has to account for that.

Trading is likely to be the primary source of funding for everything else, so we'll need to keep that foremost. Combat capabilities are useful mainly to dissuade pirates.

As for the age of the ship: as long as it's in good condition there's no reason it can't be maintained and made to look nice both inside and out.

400 ton streamlined with about the cargo capacity of the Corsair and 4 turrets would be great.
-------------------------------------------------------

IMO, Yes to all of the above.

Is it possible, yes, will it be easy, no, but unless we put forth the effort/time (In IC), of course we will fail.

OOC: Internet connection failing more later.
Kheaiftouaw
player, 255 posts
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 22:57
  • msg #134

Re: Ship Ahoy

Before we decide to look for a better ship, is there even a ship which would fit better than what we can get here? In the main book I don't see anything better than the Far Trader or Corsair for this.

The 200 ton Varger Trader looks like a better alternative than the Far Trader because it sacrifices state rooms for cargo as long as we are ok with  only having 5 rooms.

Aslan have a rare 300 ton design which can do a bit of everything, but is a bit expensive comparatively because it needs to use jump engines for 400 ton ships.
They also have a 400 ton trader but that one is unarmed and only has 20 tons more cargo than the corsair and scoops/processors. Either way they likely are not available on Outpost, it being a Imperium system but rather on Drellesarr going by its "everything for sale" wiki entry. The Hierate is close enough that I find it possible that Aslan ships would be for sale somehow (even if its just pirated ones). Of course Starmaster might think differently.

Solomani space is a bit further away but could be reasonable close to still find a ship (likely also coming from questionable sources and quite rare). But the only interesting ship is their 400 ton trader and it also is not much of an upgrade to the corsair, basically just trading one turret (and firepower on the other turrets) for fuel scoops, processors and a launch with equal cargo space.

So it doesn't look like we can even find a better ship than the corsair unless you want to go smaller.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:59, Tue 22 Sept 2015.
Darrel Cromwell
player, 338 posts
Noble (Count)
Retired actor
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 23:52
  • msg #135

Re: Ship Ahoy

In reply to Kheaiftouaw (msg # 134):

I realize alot of players don´t have all the books....I´m not talking about any of the "specialized" ships, the secret agent transwarp invisible thingy.

The CR has the basic ships, then there are the core supplements, basic ship designs that aren´t really special...they just wouldn´t have fit in the main book. I´m looking to somehow put alot of this basic stuff onto the goggle cloud thingy.

As an example, it is understandable that with small freighters (200-400), there are those that concentrate totally on cargo space, then on the opposite side, there will be those that are designed to be fast, what about those dealing with possible combat?, or longer jump range or some combination of the above.

Trust me, there are standard designs that are much better suited to our needs other than our current options. And, never forget, the integral advantages of standard design...parts and repair times are greatly reduced....As much as group conditions might be met, superficially by an Aslan ship...think about that for a moment?

However, it does always boil down to the GM, what does he think is available at certain locations?

Anyways, OOC, looking at a way to upload files to the google thing, it´s been a bit.
Samantha Kilgore
player, 173 posts
Pilot and Security expert
With more hidden talents
Wed 23 Sep 2015
at 07:24
  • msg #136

Re: Ship Ahoy

Darrell - not sure what you mean by a Jump 1 pocket?

Apart from that 4 turrets? We only have 2 Gunners (one PC with Gunner, though we do have two jane of all trades) - so that is worth remembering
Darrel Cromwell
player, 339 posts
Noble (Count)
Retired actor
Wed 23 Sep 2015
at 10:53
  • msg #137

Re: Ship Ahoy

In reply to Samantha Kilgore (msg # 136):
quote:
not sure what you mean by a Jump 1 pocket?

At some point, we´re going to need a jump-2 ship to get out of the area.

http://travellermap.com/?x=-39...amp;scale=57.6796875

Good point about the gunners, but, if necessary, you can automate turrets.
Kaengarr Ruzokh
player, 50 posts
Vargr
Wed 23 Sep 2015
at 13:38
  • msg #138

Re: Ship Ahoy

  Two characters have Gunner: Vonon and Kaengarr. That's in addition to the JoAT characters.

  The corsair has Fire Control software. I don't know about most of the others that have been mentioned, but it's something we can add if need be.
Walter Zeller
player, 233 posts
Merchant/Noble
Wed 23 Sep 2015
at 15:45
  • msg #139

Re: Ship Ahoy

We can always work on learning gunnery while we are in transit to the next destination.

Since we are at TAS, maybe we can take a look at their database to see if there are any vessels not listed on this system or in other areas that we can check out.

(For the time being and to simplify things, I think a Far Trader might be our best option. While it does not have the cargo capacity like the Corsair, it has the range, and no problem with landings, taking off, or refueling, along with plenty of space for everyone (plus putting trading as a secondary mission). Who knows what abandoned vessels we might find...)
Sign In