True. And in level 0 grinders you are playing up to a half dozen characters each. I think the appeal for me is the challenge. It is easy to be a hero if you are as strong as Hercules or as fast as Hermes or invincible as Achilles but I like an underdog story. I think it is far more memorable when Bob the Sheepherder gets a lucky Crit and kills a dragon rather then Valor the Uberman just beating everything into submission with math.

However the BIGGEST appeal is the unknown. You could roll high. You could roll low. You don’t know until you do! I love RNG as an aide to creativity because it provides constraints. It forces you out of your comfort zone and lets you experience a game and character with fresh eyes.

While I do enjoy the challenge of playing a weak character, I love magic users too much to be willing to do that under Pathfinder (since you need a 11 just to cast lvl 1 spells, and a magic user without spells isn't a magic user). Actually, if you add the racial +2 to a 9 that might just work...

Mind you, by putting all you ability increase in that casting stat and using the best headband of XXX you can afford you can pretty much manage to cast all the spells you have access to, so by level 8 or so you don't really have a weak character anyway.

Honestly, I have just never played a game that scaled from level 1 to epic, so I would love to check it off my bucket list, at least once.

In reply to Tomokun (msg # 204):

That would be awesome but in play by post it'd probably take 35-50 years.

In reply to bottleface (msg # 205):

Only took 6 to go from 5 to 12 and complete an arc! :P

I'm going to be 37 this year... I got the time!

Would there be interest for a game like this?

• semi-gestalt: every odd level is gestalt occult + martial, every even level is either occult or martial
• starting level: 1, create your mercenary PCs as martial-only members of the Gray Crow Company, as capable scouts (occult class at level 1 will come later as part of the story)
• the country itself is gritty low-level, but the PCs are much-larger-than-life heroes
• it is a setting where using occult powers is feared and hated, so the PCs must be careful when / where they use their abilities
• there is no arcane or divine magic in the setting, at all
• there's no gunpowder, steampower, electric power in the setting, it is low-tech
• the story is a mystery story, advanced by uncovering clues that are supposed to add up eventually, which will trigger more question and seemingly disparate clues

In reply to greenvoid (msg # 207):

That sounds like it could be interesting.  Id be willing to try it

So, I have an idea for a game and I'd love some feedback.

It would be a human-only game with magic and evils that seek to enslave people, set in a fantasy Transylvania (like Ravenloft, I'm guessing, though I've not seem any Ravenloft materials). The characters would be guardians of the Faith who work for the Theocrat and fixing supernatural problems that plague the villages and people, from undead to ancient curses and unspeakable elder evils from beyond the cosmos.  Complicating this, the Boyars and Vivodes of the region with their petty infighting and politicking and a potential rebellion against the Pious Tsar's new regime.

I only have the Pathfinder Core rules, so I'd just be using that initially - opening up other content as the game progressed (as PDFs mount up).

I envision running it like a Sandbox, with areas to explore, hooks to snap up and factions to be interacted with.  It would also have a plot thread that I'd use to move the party around from place to place (i.e. the Theocrat sends them on a mission - or the enemies they've made make more trouble elsewhere).

I love horror, and this would be a horror-fantasy, I think.

Would anyone be up for a game like this?

Sounds intriguing Metalmonkee.  Just wish all of my current character ideas were buildable using core only.  Bet I could come up with something though.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:27, Sun 26 May 2019.

d20pfsrd.com has all the rules if you don't have the books yet.  However, you may still want some limits as it can be a bit overwhelming with all the choice.

Sounds cool.

So I have an idea for a game setting but I have no idea what to do with it.

The core concept is “What if Conjuration Magic is really really bad?”

The general consensus in D&D and Pathfinder is that when you summon something the magic just takes its form and then it disapates. it was never real to begin with so it doesn’t matter if it dies horribly....but what if that isn’t how it works?

What if instead you’re pulling a creature from some other place and when they die or the spell expires they “snap back” to where they were?

What if that cord breaks and they shoot past their original spot?

Basically it is the “end of the line” when it comes to the planes. A combination of Planescape’s Sigil with Thor: Ragnarock’s Sakaar with MtG’s Ravnica built on top of it.

It is a planar dead zone for creatures that are summoned but through some unknown reason get dumped here instead of going back in time. The entire “plane’” is one closed city built on top of the ruins of other cities. It gets creatures from every dimension (so you have beholders and anything else from any other setting you want to throw in there). Once you go here you can’t go back. Planar shifting magic doesn’t function, you just end up back in the middle of the city.

The city is divided up into wards and guilds. The major wards are the Red Ward (for humanoids), Green Ward (for goblins/orcs/giants), Beast Ward (intelligent beasts), the Scale Ward (dragons and reptiles) and the Dead Ward (undead). There are also the outsider wards, one each for the four major groups: CG Emperyials, LG for the Celestials, LE for the Infernals, CE for the Abyssals.

Everyone has to get along because you never know what is going to be dumped next and everyone has to work together to survive. There isn’t really “farmable land” or resources so when dead bodies from dead summons get dumped it gets processed. In the sewers there are vast mushroom farms and in the skies there are floating platforms that operate as farm fields for exotic seeds from across the dimensions.

The city is further divided by occupation with powerful guilds that keep everyone alive and running and work together to keep balance.

Guild include:
1) Agriculture & Sanitation - Only intelligent beings arrive here so everyone is food. Humans eat dead magical beasts while magical beasts eat dead humans. Or mushrooms...always mushrooms. Sanitation is vital as it is the only source of farmable soil for both the mushrooms that keep the masses fed as well as the flying fields where the rich and powerful can eat non-mushroom based fruits and vegetables.

2) Construction - The divide between wards is always changing because you never know what’s going to be dumped next. Suddenly in some plane a war in the heavens means a huge influx of celestials and demons. The next for whatever reason a thousand centaurs are dumped down. Construction keeps things maintained and operational and builds housing and utilities for new arrivals. It is also vital in the creation fo raw resources. there are no trees to cut, no mountains to mine so everything has to be created through Construction mages.

3) Removals -The other side of the coin. Old structures need to be torn down and the vital building materials recycled.

4) Law - The watch and the judges and th prisons that keep civilization civil. Very difficult brokering peace between dwarves and goblins, good and evil dragons that have to suddenly live next to one another etc.

5) Entertainers - On the surface they are artists, actors, poets etc. but there is a very close relationship between them and crime. Being an artist in a rough place like this is difficult so they also incoporate thieves and pickpockets. While the patrons are out watching the show, their shops and homes are empty. the city takes an enlightened view on crime, thinking it is inevitable so better to have a guild control it so it doesn’t get too disruptive.

6) Technologists - Using magic and mechanics from an infinite number of worlds to improve efficiencies. The setting would be akin to Eberron steam punk levels with things like power plants and electric lighting. Their big contribution are the giant sun orbs that provide light for both inhabitants and the crops.

7) Naturalists - Provide a lot of welfare and social services. Hospitals, medicine, spiritual needs etc.

8) Immigration - Primarily run by the Undead, this group welcomes new arrivals and helps them get settled.

I have this vision of an army of skeletons welcoming a dragon to it’s new home/prison. Skeletons because they are cheap and replaceable fo when you get a Red dragon that decides it wants to lay waste and rage for awhile before listening to reason. Manticore bankers or goblins and dwarven foremen arguing about the best way to reinforce a sagging power line.

The issue is I don’t know what kind of game to run. Maybe it’s a smorgasboard where everyone is part of a different ward/guild. Or maybe I do a “watchman” game where they’re all part of the law trying to solve a murder or keep order. Or maybe it’s a game about a family or mercenary group or...you see my point. I can do a million things with this setting and I am having trouble deciding what to do with it.

An interesting concept to say the least. Could be fun for someone that loves to 'raise dead'.

In reply to praguepride (msg # 213):

Sounds awesome. I'd definitely go with "you're mercenaries/cops" trying to solve mysteries and crimes as a great starting point.

Such a city would be a metropolis like no other with limitless possibilities.

Honestly what if the Plane wasn't a dumping ground so to speak what if it was a testing ground instead. Basically the plane has a secret McGuffin that when dealt with it resets and alters it's defenses so that it is never the same twice. But the point of the McGuffin is to determine who gets to be real. So that the River of Souls never dries up and only the worthy can become the next batch of souls.

One of the (many) twists I envisioned is that with all the souls trapped in this plane necromancy isn't just viewed as acceptable but is quite powerful and one of the strongest "factions" as it were is the Dead Ward.

Necromancy and Evocation are considered the "cool" magics, necromancy because there are so many undead walking around and mindless undead servants are a key resource (dragons getting their chamber pots scrubbed by skeleton maids :P) and Evocation because evocation powers are used to power the main sources of energy to grow crops and provide lighting.

Conjuration is heavily regulated. No living creatures are allowed to be conjured. The city would outright ban it if it wasn't for things like Wall of Iron/Wood/Stone being the key sources of building supplies.

I like the idea the group is part of a mercenary company. Not "the law" but a troubleshooter lodge if you would. While the Wards and Guilds run the city you don't have to actually be a member or loyal to any of them.

So I've got the bug to spin up another game but I'm unsure what I want to run. I know I want it to be in Pathfinder 2E as I am really digging the system and I want it to catch on here on rPoL.

I don't normally do this but I'm going to be doing an interest check as well as a vote because I'm torn about what to run. So if you are interested in playing in a 2E game shoot me a PM. Here are the options I am thinking of:

• A 2E conversion of Rise of the Runelords
  
  quote:

  From the idyllically peaceful coastal town of Sandpoint to an ancient lost city at the top of the world, Rise of the Runelords takes a party of adventurers from 1st to over 18th level and delves into the mysteries of Varisia's ancient past. Millennia ago, the powerful empire of Thassilon ruled the land, dominated by despotic runelords who maintained their power through harnessing the power of rune magic. Thought gone forever, the workings of Thassilon are not so far beneath the surface and one of the runelords plans a return to power. Only the brave adventurers stand in his way.
  
  
• A 2E conversion of Skulls & Shackles
  
  quote:

  There's adventure to be had on the high seas when a group of press-ganged strangers seizes a ship and becomes embroiled in the plots and politics of the Shackles—an infamous island chain dominated by pirate warlords. But as these new swashbucklers make names for themselves, rival scalawags, enemy navies, legendary sea monsters, and the infamous Hurricane King himself seek to see them walk the plank. Who will survive when there's glory to plunder?
  
  
• A 2E conversion of Giantslayer
  
  quote:

  Deep in the Mindspin Mountains, a storm giant warlord known as the Storm Tyrant has seized control of a cloud castle and an Orb of Dragonkind, and is gathering an army of giants from across western Avistan—first to bring the orc hordes of Belkzen under his banner, then to conquer the neighboring realms. Heroes defending the human town of Trunau from an orc raid discover that the attack is just a precursor to the Storm Tyrant's larger plans. Working their way through an abandoned border fort, an ancient giant temple, the tomb of an undead frost giant, and an elite fire giant training facility beneath a dormant volcano, the heroes eventually take the fight to the Storm Tyrant himself inside his flying fortress. Can the giant army be defeated before it can conquer the human lands of the Inner Sea, or will all of Avistan bow down in fealty to the Storm Tyrant?
  
  
• A 2E conversion of Shattered Star
  
  quote:

  From the ashes of Thassilon, an ancient power shall rise again!
  The ancient empire of the runelords may be long dead, yet the legacy of Thassilon continues to haunt the frontier realm of Varisia. With the rise of one runelord only narrowly thwarted, Korvosa reeling after the curse of the Crimson Throne nearly brought the city to its knees, and Riddleport rebuilding after a close call with a falling star, the people of Varisia fear that the greatest threat to their land has yet to play its hand. When agents of the newest Pathfinder Society lodge in Magnimar learn of a fragmented artifact scattered throughout the lands of old Thassilon, it falls to a new band of heroes to step in and gather up the seven fragments of this Shattered Star. For if the greatest prize of Thassilon's first ruler cannot save Varisia... what can?
  
  
• A custom homebrew setting I described above (Planescape meets Ravnica where the party are the senior officers of a mercenary company.
  
• A game set in the old D&D Mystara setting about carving out a kingdom in the wilderness. This would NOT just be a port of kingmaker though, it would use very different rules for the kingdom and the overall storyline would be much more linear and focused and less "here's a map, go explore hex by hex. This will be a throwback to older D&D style games where you clear out the wilderness, build a castle and then attract followers etc.
  
• 2E Adventure Path: Extinction Curse
  
  quote:

  Come one, come all! Humble performers become leaders of the Circus of Wayward Wonders when tragedy strikes. But as these heroes lead their motley band of performers and roustabouts around the Isle of Kortos, they uncover a sinister plot to exterminate life from the Starstone Isle. The dead god Aroden may be gone, but his legacy lives on, as do his old enemies who would destroy the wonders he raised from the sea. Spectacle meets savagery as the heroes strive to stop the Extinction Curse!
  
  
  
• 2E Adventure Path: Agents of Edgewatch
  
  quote:

  Amid the hustle and bustle of the world-famous centennial Radiant Festival, the guards of the so-called Edgewatch precinct must take down Absalom's sickest serial killers, brashest bank robbers, and cruelest criminal masterminds in order to ensure the festival's success and the safety of Absalom’s citizens. After a string of seemingly unrelated crimes is revealed as part of a much larger criminal plot, the members of one select squad find themselves at the center of things and must put their badges on the line to prevent the city from falling into chaos. By the end of this six-part monthly Adventure Path, there's just one group that can lay down the law and save Absalom: the Agents of Edgewatch!
  
  
• 2E Adventure: The Fall of Plaguestone
  
  quote:

  A group of new adventurers traveling through the village of Etran's Folly—also known as Plaguestone—must come together to solve the murder of a friend. What starts as a simple investigation quickly turns sinister with the discovery of forbidden alchemy, mutant animals, and a nearby forest rotting away due to a mysterious blight. It becomes clear that if these heroes don't intervene to stop whatever evil is brewing, the fall of Plaguestone is all but certain!
  
  
• 2E Adventure: The Slithering
  
  quote:

  In the cosmopolitan trading city of Kibwe, at the edge of the Mwangi Expanse, innocent people struck by a terrible curse known as the slithering are melting into malevolent oozes. The heroes are at the epicenter of this slimy curse and might be the only ones capable of recovering the ancient magic required to break it. Tracking the course of the slithering through Kibwe's colorful markets and shrines, the heroes must untangle the curse's origin and discover the role the nefarious Aspis Consortium plays in the unfolding conspiracy. The mysteries the heroes uncover might usher in a new era of plenty and prosperity for Kibwe, if the heroes can survive the slithering to experience it!

So in your PM if possible rank stuff as High, Medium, Low, and No interest. I'll assign simple point values (3/2/1/0) based on that and whichever one wins, wins:

Here is a handy dandy voting chart:

Rise of the Runelords
Skulls & Shackles
Giantslayer
Shattered Star
Mercenary Company
Mystara
Extinction Curse
Agents of Edgewatch
Fall of Plaguestone
Slithering
This message was last edited by the player at 23:53, Fri 02 Oct 2020.

Filing this under the "games I would love to run but probably will never run" category: the all barbarian party!

Everyone starts at level 3 and starts with at least one level in barbarian. After that you can multiclass over into something else but the premise would be a band of elite warriors in the Linnorm King lands basically going through a modified plot of the 13th warrior/Eaters of the Dead: Vikings vs. Werebears!

The players would be the elite fighter from different tribes brought together to penetrate the icy wilderness and end the threat of the werebear raiders once and for all.

I am tempted to homebrew a rule about cascading rage where when someone rages everyone else in the party must make a will save or rage for free and ride the wave.

"Oh crap! Our wizard went into a rage and is ripping that guys arm off!"

So PF 2 doesn't actually have multi-classing, right?  You can take a dedication feat to pick up some of the skills of another class but the class you start with is always the one that you're taking levels in, right?  Or did I miss something.  Certainly, I looked all through the Pathbuilder app to find some way to specify a different class for a level up, and it, at least, doesn't support it.

Assuming my understanding is correct, for your theoretical barbarian game, would they have to start as barbarians and then just dedication feat into other classes, or would it be enough if they started as another class but had take a dedication of barbarian?

I tried putting together a barbarian with a rogue dedication.  There's some cool synergy, there, that might be fun to build a character around.

Edit:  I also made a Ranger with a barbarian dedication and a Cat focus (pet and instinct, plus acrobatics expert with cat fall).  Now I just need a good name.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:23, Fri 23 Oct 2020.

You are correct, in PF2 there is no multiclassing in the traditional sense that we are used to it. You have to take a Dedication Feat to pick up an Archetype now which is how they did multiclassing.

In reply to Kyper (msg # 221):

Could just do gestalt. Or house rule multiclassing is available.

I would say no.  They made the rules the way they are for a reason.  The least we can do is to give their approach a chance.  It's actually a pretty good concept -- you continue progressing in your main class, you just pick up a few attributes and skills from the class you Dedicate your studies to.

Personally, as a GM I try to discourage multi-classing in PF 1 games, other than specializing into prestige classes.  If you're trying to achieve a hybrid, then I'd rather work with you to build a hybrid class.  If it is character development, where they have become disenchanted with their current path, I could support that, but that's not usually what people are doing.  Usually their min-maxing something with no associated personality development.  But maybe that's just my experience.

Actually Pathfinder 2e took into account the idea of Gestalt already in the Gamemastery Guide. In it though they called it Dual Classing.

You can find the rules for it here: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1328

They actually thought it all out well and good ahead of time because I assume they figured people would look at all of these ideas. So my guess is they wanted to put something together to allow it to happen swiftly and easily.

FYI I am on track for starting up a Pathfinder 2e game in a custom home brew setting probably in January. Right now I am working on an introductary novel as part of NaNoWriMo that I'm using to help flesh out the setting. After that is done (and I've recharged my batteries a bit) I'll produce a page that is a grand overview of the current setting.

I'm trying to fit it as closely to Pathfinder 2e mechanically but I'll be considering some custom rules regarding races as my setting mythology is quite different than Golarion.

For anyone interested in a "sneak peak" so to speak you are welcome to follow along with the novel:

https://www.worldanvil.com/w/e...---chapter-0-article

(Note, this is a 1st draft of a novel I am writing in a single month. It is going to be a rough ride and I've already identified a lot of things I'll be going back. I currently have planned at least 4 more full drafts before I think about really advertising it.)

For those interested in the setting and mythology here is an overview on the origins of gods & races:

https://www.worldanvil.com/w/e...-of-eldath-article-1

And a high level overview of the regions and major factions in play are
https://i.imgur.com/DUQ1CW0.jpg

As for an overall concept of the game it is going to be a sandbox of rails. I have three (working on a 4th) storylines that I can set people on. Right now the three paths are going to be 1) Psychic Pirates  2) Traditional Adventurers 3) Kingdom building & politics. By January #4 is probably going to be a mercenary company style game where the players run a mercenary company or thieves guild or something.

Anyway just putting out a bit of a hype post now.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:14, Wed 02 Dec 2020.

Sounds like a good time and a great way to approach a sandbox via PbP.

I enjoyed the first chapter of your intro! I will keep reading and see what else I learn!