In reply to Vatticone (msg # 908):

It's a modification to the armor, so it would become an intrinsic part of it. See the clarification here: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/armor/armored-kilt/

In reply to Jobe00 (msg # 910):

The question was how Hero Labs handles it(I'm not familiar with the software.) If you're referring to Reynold's statement, sure, that's a designer's statement. But the armored kilt can also be bought separately, added to an armor, and, logically, removed.

Reynold's statement actually originated from a thread discussing whether the armored kilt could be enchanted separately to stack enchantments on armor. From the same thread:

If the kilt is a modification to an armor, rather than something added to it later, how would you justify it not also having to be made of adamantine, or make the cost 15k, to bump the DR to 3?

If the kilt is a later addition, how would you justify the increase in DR at almost no cost?
This message was last edited by the player at 01:46, Sun 27 June 2021.

Also good questions.

The rule of common sense? If the kilt is not also Adamantium it provides no bonus to the already superior set of armor.

Kind of like how throwing a chain shirt on over a mithral chain shirt.

In reply to Tom_Clancy's_Ghost_Recon (msg # 912):

Actually, the devs have specifically said that the material of armored kilt is completely irrelevant to the main armor (meaning it does give a +1, and makes it work as heavy armored... giving that /3), both by intent and writing. a gm can common sense it but raw and intent is clear on armored kilts. This also means you dont have to justify not increasing the cost, just dont think about it... it happens, so enjoy it. The only thing devs wanted to clarify to avoid abuse of was using the armored kilt for enhancement stacking.

And, yes, you can add and remove the armored kilt freely.

here are some visualizations of the armored kilt.
https://www.bing.com/images/se...;tsc=ImageBasicHover

Also, there are rules for stacking armor, piecemeal mechanics, stacking mithral chain with chain would probably get you something like chain coat or chainmail level defense... though, you probably wouldnt benefit from the mithral anymore because there is equal parts mithral to equal parts not. Piecemeal explains how that works but I dont recall.

but, you know, I want out of this game.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:03, Sun 27 June 2021.

rMail BigBadRon. He knows you want out of this game, but you have to tell him yourself.

As I see it,



Adamantine Breastplate Armor plus a kilt is no longer Adamantine Breastplate Armor. Just like leather armor plus studs is no longer leather armor, or a lamellar cuirass plus steel plates is no longer a lemellar cuirass.

Adamantine heavy armor gives DR 3/-. Adamantine medium armor gives DR 2/-. The kilt says it makes medium armor heavy armor. It doesn't say it makes Adamantine medium armor Adamantine heavy armor.

Armored kilt offers no guidance on how it interacts with special materials. There is no RAW, there is no RAI, there is no general rule, there is no specific rule. The ONLY dev comment on armored kilt and special materials is the following:

Wolfthulu certainly seemed to be implying he was of the opinion that Breastplate + Kilt should make a Heavy armor BEFORE special materials are added, as am I. SKR apparently agreed.

The only common sense solution is that Breastplate MADE with a kilt is heavy armor that when adamantine for 15k gives DR 3/-. Adamantine breastplate armor with a kilt added later would still encumber someone like heavy armor and require proficiency, but would only grant the DR 2/- that was paid for.

In reply to Vatticone (msg # 915):

It's still Adamantine Breastplate Armor, the kilt says exactly what it does and it doesnt change breastplate into something else.

Just like you cant change I want out of this game
This message was last edited by the player at 14:32, Tue 29 June 2021.

Enough is enough. No one in this discussion has the ability to do anything about your issue. Carrying on the way you have been has no possible outcome other than annoying the crap out of a bunch of people who just want to game.

Talk to the GM. Gm's not available? Talk to a moderator. Moderator won't help? Suck it up and stop trying to drag the rest of us into your drama

In reply to Shinoskay (msg # 916):

I agree. It is Adamantine Breastplate armor ... under a kilt. It doesn't change the Breastplate into something else. It makes the total armor heavy. It doesn't add layers of Adamantine.

It says exactly what it does. It doesn't say what it doesn't do.

In reply to Vatticone (msg # 918):

Well, I appreciate you agreeing, but in the end the only opinion that matters are dev opinions... like seans (whos spoken on this a few times in paizo forum) . Who says material of the kilt has absolutely no relevance to the mechanical affect relation to the armor... nor does it change the armor other than how it says it changes the armor.

You guys probably didnt do a proper google search on it for much the same reason why im still here saying I also want out of this game

The people in this thread have been nothing but helpful and patient with you. There is no reason for you to insult any of us, particularly when a clear path to be removed from this game appeared just a few posts ago and you ignored it so that you could continue acting like a spoiled brat.

In reply to Shinoskay (msg # 919):

You can make that claim but as I shared the only thread and quote in which any Dev spoke of a kilt's effect when considering special materials, it doesn't mean much unless you back it up.

In reply to Vatticone (msg # 921):

Except there are several quotes from SKR (sean) in that same thread.


meaning he both presents that you can individually make the armor and the kilt, pricing the armor at it's standard price (including special material, so pricing light mithral chainshirt at light price) then add the kilt, and then it would mechanically calculate as chain shirt becomes medium from kilt but counts as light from mithral and cost the price of a light mithral chain shirt and a normal kilt purchased separately.

but then there is also this quote: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2...-Questions-Here#6675

from the less reputable dev presented faq style

Again, Armored kilts are really simple, with only enhancement stacking needing clarification. People should really stop trying to over think it.

but I just want to be removed from this game.


</quote></quote>

next time, dont be lazy and do your own research. I just want to be removed from this game.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:26, Tue 29 June 2021.

See, that's your assumption based on nothing SKR actually said. No one said a kilt couldn't be added after construction of the armor. That's the whole dilemma. A mithril chain shirt is a light armor. Adding a kilt makes it a medium armor. There is no reason to assume that the chain shirt AND kilt combo would benefit from mithril only affecting the chain shirt.

Just because he has more quotes about the armored kilt in the same thread doesn't mean all quotes are RELEVANT to the topic of how kilts interact with special materials.

The JJ quote has little relevance as well, which is why I didn't reference it. Except maybe the next quote:
That doesn't at all support the argument that mithril or adamantine act as normal with regard to weight class when a kilt is involved. It certainly doesn't back the claim that a mithril chain shirt and kilt is a light armor when only the chain shirt was made of mithril for 1k instead of the combo for 4k.

Do you always resort to making personal attacks in rules discussion? It's not lazy to not present irrelevant information, and presenting irrelevant quotes doesn't strength your claims.

I'd just ask the DM how they want to handle it. :D

Also. I just want to return this game to that guy's sticky list. :P

Personally, I'd see adding an armored kilt as increasing the armor type by one size.   Which solves most of the questions.




I'm relatively sure that this is a discussion group, not a game.

That's exactly what it does. It makes the armor one category heavier.

In reply to Hunter (msg # 925):

You may need to elaborate, since no one is disputing that the armor size goes up. Would you rule that throwing a simple armored kilt on an armor made of special material gets you the benefits of a larger armor made of that special material without having to pay the extra cost of actually making heavier armor of that material?

btw, I want to call it out, for any who know... I was saira in pragueprides last game. I tried really hard to cater to peoples emotions except for when someone brought up this very topic... trying to tell me that it would either be medium armor or at least at medium armor mithral cost. Their sensibility and bias drawing them to, for some reason, publicly challenge me on the topic. Both, clearly, wrong per the dev.
I got removed from that game for supposedly being high maintenance.

I no longer care how annoying I may be. if he can remove me from one game, he can remove me from another of his.



Ya, except all of the discussion here is clearly rules as intended, because the mechanical affect is explicitive and clear. So look at what the devs would do makes intention very clear.

It's not a personal attack if it's a general understanding, the only reason people still confuse mechanics, intent, or almost anything on armored kilt is because of either bias or laziness... and here, bias gets blasted out of the water by those who arent lazy.

The devs have presented their understanding of how the mechanics work, explicitly the dev that wrote the book that had the item.
Thats pretty relevant.
that same dev made it very clear the item has no bearing on creation cost, but can absolutely be used for cool after creation benefits. The only stipulation the devs made was to correct any enhancement abuse, you COULD make a mithral chain shirt with a mithral kilt (you can even pay to have it all made together for more creation cost), but as JJ presented... there really is no point. At best, it would be to satisfy personal sensibility... A nonsensical sensibility.

by the by, I like your style vatticone.



I think we all are having too much fun with that at this point

but I just want to be removed from this game

And adds +1 ac, lets not forget that.



Youd be wrong, technically and relatively speaking, given how RPOL has it listed in the games section. The mods never moved it to the discussions or forums area of their website, ergo... for some reason it's classified as a game.  A game I want out of.
This message was last edited by the player at 09:17, Wed 30 June 2021.

In reply to Shinoskay (msg # 928):

Check your rMail. I tagged you in a post with the site Admin and Mods. Hopefully you will be removed shortly.

And if not, we will certainly hear from him again.

I missed the part where the rules cursed. Also the part where a kilt made a light armor light. Or the part where a kilt added more special materials to an armor set at no cost.


Exactly. Sean K Reynolds would add the kilt to the armor and then make the whole of it mithril rather than deal with adding the kilt to a mithril armor.


It also means it fits with the already establish cost balancing.


A mithril chain shirt is light encumbrance, but that plus [any] armored kilt is medium encumbrance.


It's the lowest form of argument to claim the other guy is just lazy and biased but then make claims you can't actually back up.


Exactly. At best he didn't clarify the edge cases. At worst he disagreed with you! It's a serious leap to say that settles it on your interpretation.


He made it clear it CAN have no bearing. It also CAN have bearing.

Provide THIS quote, since THIS is what you're trying to assert.


JJ was speaking specifically to someone suggesting a mithril armored kilt would not increase the category of a mithril breastplate(light). Again:


And, finally, from another discussion on the topic, following RAW and garnering the most support:

This message was last edited by the player at 13:07, Wed 30 June 2021.

I think we may have gotten off the original topic here. The question wasn't about mithral it was about Adamantine wasn't it? And whether or not it made any sense to up the DR of a suit of Adamantine armor when you add a non-adamantine kilt. Heavy Adamantine gives DR3 while Medium gives DR2. So the question being, should an armored kilt boost the DR when it does not add any additional Adamantine?

In reply to vibetrippin (msg # 932):

In spirit I think it's the same question: whether adding an armored kilt after the creation of an armor out of special materials CHANGES the effect of those special materials simply because it makes an armor 'count as' heavier.

When it comes to mithril it doesn't really matter though. It doesn't matter what the kilt is made of. It says that it counts as a step heavier. If you have a light armor and add a kilt it is medium armor. Even if the kilt is made from upsidaisium it still counts as being a class heavier.

I guess I could see someone arguing that a suit of light armor constructed with a kilt would be medium and then when you add the mithral template it becomes light but still has the Medium AC. But that makes no logical sense because if you removed the kilt the armor is still light but then if you put the kilt back on it would be medium.
Really the only way that you can have an armored kilt be anything lighter than medium armor would be if you wore it with nothing else.

I can see a far more interesting conversation happening about a material that has property changes when the class of armor changes. (DR level changing with Adamantine for example)