That was a chick?

No way. Sounded an awful lot like a Squeaker to me! :P

This should surprise no one.

Thank you for taking care of... that.

In reply to The Dungeon Master (msg # 959):

Might consider a couple mods. I PMed you volunteering.

Now I will go listen to Ding Dong! The Witch is Dead.

Looks like we're near our limit on this thread too.

In reply to The Dungeon Master (msg # 959):

The Drama Llama waits for no man!

Certainly gotten quiet around here.

Let me ask this here, how many of you run mostly Adventure Paths as opposed to Homebrew adventures?

I haven't been running all that long but I ran a campaign set in Golarion that borrowed some of the PFS scenarios to get started before moving into my own story.

One of the long time GMs in my group recently started running Tyrant's Grasp. It cut down on prep which helped since we've been playing far more frequently as a result of Covid.

In general I run mostly adventure paths. From a fundamental story perspective they're usually really good full of twists and turns, interesting NPCs, cool custom magic items and enemies etc.

Now in actually running them you need to have a lot of flexibility. I view them more as a setting rather than trying to keep them on the rails because I have almost never had PCs follow the AP as written. They end up wanting to join the villain or do the content all out of order and then get confused when nothing makes sense or they get distracted by an NPC and end up spinning off into an entirely new adventure.

I do run a couple homebrews but I find them hard to run because when I spend a ton of time building up this great adventure and it gets completely derailed 2 sessions in because the PCs burned down the inn of their main contact and are now fugitives on the run... it is hard to just put that stuff back on the shelf.

The best advice that I heard is to treat adventure paths and modules as building blocks and use pieces from them to build up a custom adventure. Matt Colville talks about this that he focuses on creating a cohesive framing narrative, like why are all these adventures happening and what is the high level plots and schemes going on but for the day-to-day adventures he just pulls a pre-built module or dungeon off the shelf, tweaks it to fit the story and then runs it as is. That way if the PCs skip half the dungeon or turn the adventure completely on its head you don't get burned with frustration of doing all this work and it being wasted.

I like Matt. I also spend a lot of time listening to Guy and Ginny Di as well as CritCrab, Den of Drakes, and Taking20.

What makes an AP good? Especially if they are so easy to derail?

They're more of a guideline than a rule.   ^_^

That isnt really what I meant. What makes npcs interesting? How is a particular plot good? What is it about a BBE or dungeon that stands out?

People tend to agree that certain APs and Modules are better than others. I've never used a one of them. So I want some specific example of what stands out and why from the perspective of people that use/play/like them.

Same things as homebrew campaigns. It's not like they're a completely different medium with completely different qualities to measure. In fact, all of your questions really boil down to the skill of the DM. Even a simple plot can be brought to life by a good DM and even the most developed and intriguing NPC can be made dull by a bad DM.

This was shared with me. I must return the favor and pass it forward.

Enjoy, "One Edgelord to rule them all"

https://youtu.be/1q_Iw82I9-o

Question for those who know modules. Are there any that feature the headless horseman? If so, what are they? Are they any good?

Thanks!

In reply to Tom_Clancy's_Ghost_Recon (msg # 969):

>What makes an AP good?
A well fleshed out story, a meta-plot that builds throughout the whole campaign, an engaging theme that fits in its place in the world, and that comes with pictures, etc. The more these separate things interact with each other - eg the more the theme is tied to the meta-plot, the better. Those things are hard to do in a home brew without years of work, because it takes so much planning beforehand.

After that, it largely comes down to execution for me. I can do a lot of work on the AP making it my own, but how much work do I want to >have to< do? Serpent’s skull has probably the most engaging themes and meta-plots for me, but it requires pretty much a full work through as it switches from railroad to sandbox in a very chaotic manner several times, and as it is in some parts a rather soul-less framework. It is a great framework to build from though. Iron gods, as a comparison, is pretty coherent and realistic all the way through as far as I’ve seen. It’s easy to add my personal, parallel story to it, but I really don’t have to.

As levels increase and with that the player's abilities, it becomes harder to guide the party's actions. A good AP should be able to transition and maintain the story arc. I find that many APs break down after level 6 or so.

Interesting. I've heard that Curse of Strahd is one of the best AP / Modules ever. I've heard a lot of good things about... Carrion King? Not sure. Never played them myself. But anything Ravenloft or Dark Sun appeals to me right out the gate. I was hoping for some input from people who might know and be able to tell me what makes these APs spectacular to them (or others that people really liked).

;)

Carrion Crown AP. It's one of the early PF APs, and is good. After playing the Pathfinder Kingmaker RPG on PC, I want to play the AP now.

I still need to complete that game. I think I'm up to the part of meeting the spirit fairy woman solo and having her spring her trap.

Who do you use as party makeup?

I turn Octavia into an Archery Rogue and whats her name the undead elf. Outside of that the rest are either trash (to me) or not the type to fit. Zakida has standards. Tristan is far too much of a wimp for her. :P

I totally recruit my own mercs and go 4 tanky Fighters Octavia as a Rogue and an Inquisitor to be my heal bot. I've found most encounters to be fairly easy. :D

My first playthrough was a Magus leader, Amiri(Pure Barb), Valerie(Fighter/Archaeologist/Dragon Disciple), Linzi(Pure Bard), Octavia(Arcane Trickster), and Tristian(Healbot)

Octavia DESTROYS as an Arcane Trickster, especially with later rods and robes.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:19, Sat 07 Aug 2021.

Carrion Crown is a dungeon-heavy AP that can get REAL mean at times.  For example, the boss of the first AP is

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A level seven ghost wizard.  He's got some major weaknesses, but still.

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The 3rd AP boss

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Opens the fight with Circle of Death.

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I ran it a long time ago, and I loved the gothic horror atmosphere, though I had new players that got disheartened by how badly they were getting brutalized.  Obviously that could have been avoided if I were a slightly better DM at the time.

I think it technically has a headless horseman somewhere in book four or five.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:57, Sat 07 Aug 2021.

I'm on chapter 6 of kingmaker. My main is a cleric with fire and I think glory domains. I usually have Valerie as tank, Amiri doing Barbarian stuff, Nok-Nok for the insane damage he puts out, Linzi as a bard, Octavia as arcane trickster. Occasionally I'll use the twins who also put out decent damage even if I don't always fully understand what I'm doing with them. I find the difficulty all over the place, though it can be irritating when at level 18 there are still frequent misses. I would like to try the actual ap to see how it differs. The videogame had a lot of potential but falls flat in some areas.


My in person crew usually played homebrew stuff but we've started Tyrant's Grasp, though we're still in the first book. It can be punishing at times, I don't think we've ever seen so much ability damage in our campaign and there have been memorable bits

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because of some failed willsaves on unadulterated loathing, half our party currently needs to stay 60 feet from the other half, which definitely drives up the challenge.

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So far we're enjoying ourselves but it's too early to tell if it's a good ap.

So far I really like the 2e pathfinder APs. Very solid and they've obviously learned a lot not just about storylines but also giving DMs the tools they need to wiggle and improvise and still keep things on track.

In reply to Ventrikel (msg # 973):

Every campaign, good or not, requires a certain amount of railroading.   Otherwise, it just doesn't work.

I would mostly agree. With the right set of people and a huge amount of session zero to get everyone on the same page you could do a completely open game but having it be open often gets to the feeling of "nothing really matters".

Instead the best open world GMs I know create lists of options. Here are 5-10 things that you can go and explore and the choices you make impacts the world. More importantly the 4-9 things you DIDN'T choose also makes an impact.

Ultimately the best game is collaberative with both players and GMs taking turns of being active and passive/reactive participants.

Having a campaign with zero GM guidance is just as problematic as a campaign that is completely on railroads and has zero player guidance. With the right set of circumstances it can work out great but you run a big chance of the game falling flat.

Hi folks. I'm new in this group but not RPOL.

I've recently been getting into 5e and Pathfinder 2e. I like both, but especially PF2e, while I found 3.5 too complex and analysis-paralysis-ogenic and I never tried PF1e or 4e. (I was PF1e-curious but RL got complicated for a few years.)

Am I right in observing that there is considerably more 1st than 2nd edition going on here?

I ask as I am reluctant to apply to 1st edition games while I am trying to get my head around the rules for PF2e, 5e and the current version of Runequest.

Are the folk who run Pathfinder here generally sticking with 1st (which I could completely understand) or are they transferring to 2nd?

(I'm sure there have been discussions about 2e here, I'm not looking to go over old ground for people, just curious about the 'scene')

Cheers,
Sam.