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04:57, 29th March 2024 (GMT+0)

General Discussion.

Posted by GM ErikFor group 0
Vrryl
player, 58 posts
Sun 23 Oct 2016
at 20:38
  • msg #88

General Discussion

Definitely agree to rolling some lackies first. Can play a squad on mission from our merc group ;-)

I like the brush down memory lane with Heavy Gear, I'd forgotten a lot of that, but memories started trickling in with your observations. A big part of Heavy Gear too was our understanding of the rules and tactics, combined with our characters levelling up, made us a pretty lethal group. Did I play the LT in that one?

Our Rifts characters have certainly built their strategy around out-surviving an enemy force. We're really good at that. Then.... chip away for the take down. A serious slug fest akin to a Rocky movie fight.
Mika no Krynn
player, 102 posts
High Elf Demi-Goddess.
Psi-Slayer.
Tue 25 Oct 2016
at 21:46
  • msg #89

General Discussion

Yeah, you were LT, Erik had the Doctor/Ace, Edwin had the Engineer and I had the Duelist. Rob originally had the Sarge when we started. So many battles on that big hexmap.

SW is definitely more along the HG lines of play than traditional Rifts, and so would put quite a different spin on things. One plus is that it really reinvigorates a lot of the old classes that were sort of rendered lame or mediocre by the OCC/RCC power creep in the original.

It also opens up a much broader range of character ideas since you're no longer limited by an OCC/RCC as much.
Sophes
player, 64 posts
True Atlantean
Undead Slayer
Wed 1 Feb 2017
at 21:03
  • msg #90

General Discussion

Hey Mike, any chance you have been able to play test the SW system?

I ask because I may want to look at transitioning my game to it based on how long combat takes in Palladium systems.
Mika no Krynn
player, 103 posts
High Elf Demi-Goddess.
Psi-Slayer.
Thu 2 Feb 2017
at 01:05
  • msg #91

General Discussion

Not at all. But from having read what I have I suspect it would be very similar in pace to Mutants & Masterminds or even 4th Ed D&D. Combat is designed to be quick and vicious, not unlike Feng Shui, but without the over-the-top HK action movie style.

From my perspective it would handle fantasy and modern infantry combat quiet well; gives a lot of options without getting bogged down in minutia. Infantry level Rifts combat should work really well I reckon. I don't think they've got the Rift mecha combat down right though, but that's due to how they handle MD and mecha and the values they provided. The fix would be to tweak some of the stats for power armor and robots, but I haven't fully completed that or had a chance to test the numbers.

One major combat accelerator would be that they have two types of NPCs like Feng Shui; Wild Cards (Named characters) and regulars (Mooks). If mooks get hit hard enough they're down and out; no need to keep track of HP or would levels or whatever. Whereas named bad guys function like characters.

There's a Fantasy Companion available, but I don't have it. Their companion books are pretty solid, I've got the SciFi and the SuperHeroes one and they've got lots of pre-work done for those genres.

Converting Palladium races would be pretty easy since they're not super beings, and half of them are already there (Elves, Dwarves, etc).

One major difference is that there are no classes in SW; you just pick the skills, talents and abilities you want. Lots of customization possible obviously. For spell casting and psionics I reckon the Fantasy companion has a lot of good material to flesh out the options. In general each 'spell' is a power and thus very effective when used, but you do not get many of them (typically only 2~4 to start).
GM Erik
GM, 191 posts
Sun 19 Mar 2017
at 22:27
  • msg #92

General Discussion

Posted the Palladium standard Damage and Recovery rules in the combat rules post.

And yes, this is me saying I am back at it and ready to get Rifts going again. ;)

Feel free to catch up and let me know if you're ready!
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:27, Sun 19 Mar 2017.
Mika no Krynn
player, 104 posts
High Elf Demi-Goddess.
Psi-Slayer.
Mon 20 Mar 2017
at 20:54
  • msg #93

General Discussion

Well looks like we had a plan setup in IC, so once everyone is back online here, we can just execute that.
Sophes
player, 65 posts
True Atlantean
Undead Slayer
Tue 21 Mar 2017
at 18:02
  • msg #94

General Discussion

I am good with the IC plan.
GM Erik
GM, 194 posts
Thu 23 Mar 2017
at 01:51
  • msg #95

General Discussion

So, the new magic spell casting rules, which allowed a spell to be case for every combat action, seem to be quite unbalanced.

It doesn't make sense that by taking Hand to Hand Assassin and Boxing that you get to cast more spells per round.  It also doesn't make sense that mixed combat/magic classes get to cast more spells than master spell casters like the Ley Line Walker and Temporal Wizard.

Further, there are lots of bad guys that simply become impossible with 10-12 actions per round, imagine those as magic!

And finally, the new system totally nullifies the advantages of the rare classes and NPCs that got more than the base 2 spell attacks per round.

So, I created (with some discussion from Mike), a generic basis for new spell casting rules.  Its clear that more magic actions are needed, but the new rules they implemented were just too many spells per round.

It works the same way as the hand to hand tables.  It currently just defines how many magic actions you get per round, magic criticals (when applicable) and a minor strike bonus for targeted spells.  Its posted under the combat rules.
Mika no Krynn
player, 105 posts
High Elf Demi-Goddess.
Psi-Slayer.
Thu 23 Mar 2017
at 15:09
  • msg #96

General Discussion

Does spell level have any impact on casting actions? Ie. Level 3 spell vs. Level 12 spell, are both considered 1 casting action?

I don't really mind either way as PPE costs will naturally limit all but the most powerful creatures from casting a series of high level spells.

Along the similar lines, I was just thinking that maybe you could have a casting equivalent of an aimed strike; it would cost 2 actions but would provide something like a +1 or +2 to the save target, or +3 to strike? It would simulate taking careful effort in shaping the magic to the exact effect.
GM Erik
GM, 195 posts
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 01:10
  • msg #97

General Discussion

I actually just kept the previous guidelines, level 1-5 is 1 action, 6-10 2 actions, 11-15 3 actions.

I figured that because you get more spell actions each round as you level up, it automatically makes spells take less time to cast as one levels up.

So at level 1 you can do 3 low level spells or 1 high level spell a round, etc.
At level 10 you can do 5 low level spells or 1 high level and 1 medium level, etc.


I'm not comfortable with having an increased save from extra time, since that's what ritual magic does already and save bonuses are a big deal.

I do think it might be possible to think about aiming for a strike bonus on targeted spells, but wonder if it should be skill-based like it is for modern firearms?  The question then would be, can you apply the normal Sniper skill to targeted spells or should it be a separate skill?  Personally, I'm angling towards a separate skill, but I think I would allow a normal Sniper skill or a Magic Aiming skill to both apply to Techno-Wizard weaponry (no stacking though).
Sophes
player, 66 posts
True Atlantean
Undead Slayer
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 03:30
  • msg #98

General Discussion

I am interested in how you are going to measure the spell actions against normal actions. Will a spell caster have to give up a spell action to move or pull out a flask? How will it factor against total actions?
GM Erik
GM, 196 posts
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 04:02
  • msg #99

General Discussion

That was one of the reasons I put the phase system in before.  We have always had to replace other combat actions with spell casting actions, now it just changes the ratio.

Its easy in cases if you have 3 magic and 6 combat.

In cases like 4 spell actions and 6 combat actions, every 2 spell actions will use up 3 combat actions. So if you only use 1 spell action in a round it will use 2 combat actions and if you use 3 spell actions, it will use 4 or 5 combat actions.  I use the phase system to help out.  Its really ends up not a lot different than accommodating dodges out of turn and other things like that.
Mika no Krynn
player, 106 posts
High Elf Demi-Goddess.
Psi-Slayer.
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 15:06
  • msg #100

General Discussion

You can take Sharp Shooter with Magic Spells, at least you can if you're a Battle Magus, so that precedent is set. As for Sniper I think it'd certainly have to be a separate skill, but I question how useful it would be given the short range of almost all spells relative to energy weapons. Something like WP: Spells may be better, have it function similar to the Targetting skill, and you could probably have a Psionics version of it too. It would sort of help level the playing field in that regard.
Sophes
player, 67 posts
True Atlantean
Undead Slayer
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 19:39
  • msg #101

General Discussion

I agree Mike, those are good ideas.
Mika no Krynn
player, 107 posts
High Elf Demi-Goddess.
Psi-Slayer.
Sat 25 Mar 2017
at 15:50
  • msg #102

General Discussion

With regular thrown weapons you get your PP bonus, wp bonuses, HtH bonus and weapon bonus for your total strike bonus. So I think having the spell bonus, Magic Combat bonus and a WP bonus would be about equal. Even if the bonus is pretty high I think it is justified as the mage has to spend PPE and actions for the attack, whereas someone with a sword or gun just uses up one attack, and a shot out of the e-clip.

Targeting normally provides +1 strike at 1,3,7 and 10. I'd probably add another 1 at 12 or 13, not sure why they stopped. May want to modify the levels of the bonuses so there isn't much overlap with the Magic Combat levels, but not really a big deal.
Sophes
player, 68 posts
True Atlantean
Undead Slayer
Sun 26 Mar 2017
at 05:42
  • msg #103

General Discussion

Here is another question a little off topic. With the changes to the magic system Erik, would you be more willing to allow a battle magus in the campaign? I know in the past their number of attacks translated to spells was the big hang up.
GM Erik
GM, 197 posts
Sun 26 Mar 2017
at 11:57
  • msg #104

General Discussion

It wasn't the number of attacks and how it related to spells.  It was because they are overpowered and unbalanced.  They get more physical bonuses than a cyber knight and have more attacks than a juicer.  They get sharpshooting equal to someone from the New West.  Yet, they are a mage with a lots of spells and magic sharpshooting and an extra spell attack for magic energy blasts.  I honestly don't know what to do with those classes from Dweomer because they are all basically Demigod+ power mages - I don't even like them for the current campaign power level.
Mika no Krynn
player, 108 posts
High Elf Demi-Goddess.
Psi-Slayer.
Sun 26 Mar 2017
at 21:22
  • msg #105

General Discussion

I concur with Erik on this one; after looking once more those classes are WAY out of line with how they're described vis-a-vis all the other classes in the game. There is no mention of mystical enhancement, just that they train (like everyone else), but somehow are twice as good as everyone else... Juicer's included.

If it has something to do with Dweomer itself or the Lords of it, it should have been spelled out better.

The concept of the classes are sound, it's just whoever designed them took a double-dose of DJ Carella pills in the morning. I mean for a Battle Magus they should have just taken the CyberKnight concept, swapped out the psionics and cyber-abilities and put in combat oriented magic.
Mika no Krynn
player, 115 posts
High Elf Demi-Goddess.
Psi-Slayer.
Mon 20 Jun 2022
at 03:19
  • msg #106

General Discussion

On a completely different topic; are we using all the house combat and other rules for this continuation? Since they were put in 5 years ago not sure if you were still looking to use them or not Erik.
GM Erik
GM, 204 posts
Mon 20 Jun 2022
at 14:53
  • msg #107

General Discussion

I don't see a reason to change them right now.  The only thing I continue to ponder is magical attacks per round, so I will think about that, but otherwise they all seem fine.
Mika no Krynn
player, 116 posts
High Elf Demi-Goddess.
Psi-Slayer.
Tue 21 Jun 2022
at 00:50
  • msg #108

General Discussion

Ok, oddly enough it was the magical combat styles and attacks part I was thinking about in particular. The rest of it was pretty regular stuff we had been using prior.
GM Erik
GM, 205 posts
Tue 21 Jun 2022
at 01:40
  • msg #109

General Discussion

Let me look into that.  I should have it figured out by the time it will matter :)
Mika no Krynn
player, 118 posts
High Elf Demi-Goddess.
Psi-Slayer.
Thu 23 Jun 2022
at 03:53
  • msg #110

General Discussion

Also did we have any house rules for jumping and such? Just realized those fields are blank on my character sheet.

I could post the rules for jumping and such we had for that martial arts campaign we did a while back with Palladium Fantasy/Ninjas & Superspies. That covered pretty much all regular movement and durations. Would not take into account supernatural strength or endurance though.
GM Erik
GM, 206 posts
Mon 27 Jun 2022
at 23:38
  • msg #111

General Discussion

Ha!  I did make magic spell casting advancement tables.  They are already posted in the Combat Rules thread.

Awesome.
Mika no Krynn
player, 121 posts
High Elf Demi-Goddess.
Psi-Slayer.
Tue 28 Jun 2022
at 01:06
  • msg #112

General Discussion

Yes, I know. I  was wondering if we were using those or not... in hindsight I suppose I could have referenced them specifically, but I figured you knew about them.

This answers my question anyways. So all good.
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