My thought was that the Tarenti would share that belief [in the spirit world] even if they cannot interact with the spirits directly. In the more "civilized" world...she has learned to keep it out of most conversations.
I agree that the interactions with the spirits of things--the honoring of the spirit of things--is a fundamental element of the Tarenti.

I recently read a fascinating article about magnetoception (I can't rememeber the actual name of it).  Birds, it seems have embedded crystals in their brains that allow them to sense direction via a perception of the magnetic field of the Earth.  Humans, also, have the same apparatus (in our noses, apparently), but have mostly lost the ability to sense magnetism...  The article was about why people go in circles when bereft of any directional landmarks.   An interesting outgrowth was that, while weak, this sense can, apparently, be trained up to be more effective.

Why am I bringing this up?  I think that the other cultures have evolved enough that they simply haven't exercised that social muscle.  It's still there;  Anybody can sense and interact with the spirits of the world around them.  But most don't, and the cultures that have developed simply don't have the infrastructure to begin.



Hmmm. I thought it was. It would be easier if she was not already an Attendant.
Okay, let's nix that part.   If she's not an Evoker, she also doesn't need to attend the College.  She certainly can, because the college does deal with more than just Evocation.   I'm certain that there would be a few masters of esoteric topics associated with the college.  And thus would be able to have hooked Angharad up with Gadjibool.


I think what I"m asking about the Hanjool tribe, is just hwo much do you want this to be a defining factor in this character?  I'm perfectly fine with the detail, but How much does it matter that she's Hanjool (and not, say, Rhaine or Soujoo or  any of another handful of possible names that haven't actually been defined)?

I'm thinking that putting the tribe-name in the Aspect isn't actually going to do anything for you or against you because the Tarenti as a people are also a whole unknown.  At it's best, it would serve to help you and Arui differentiate between each other's people and customs.



Gadjibool:
Gadjibool was a shaman in Venti who could speak to spirits as well.
So, what kind of place are you envisioning Venti as being?

Is that a Tarenti place, Kumlaren?  GIven the proximity of the Plains of Taren to the northern edge of the Scar Lands (Khadid), I'd love to put Gadjibool as a someone working with the spirits of the borderlands along the two lands...  But, if you want to give me some ideas, we can also put Venti on the map, depending on it's relative size.


I did not think mystic would give me access to animal interaction. If you think it can, then I will drop it.
Your call.  I assumed that talking a the spirit of a--very specific--deer wouldn't be that much different from speaking to the spirit of "the deer in the Ares Woods"  One's addressing an individual while the other is addressing a egregore reflection of a concept identifier.  Whether it's fauna, flora, mineral, conceptual...  everything has a spirit reflection.  Thus, everything can be interacted with.

Some things, of course, are harder to interact with.  I would imagine that Angharad needs to fix the concept in her mind of what she wishes to interact with, then once that's achieved, she can bring her other skills into play....  But conceptualuzing the spirit of "Democracy" can be taxing, while the spirit of "a blue-tailed thrush" would be so much easier...

Still, I think this is the foundation I can use to start thinking of an approach to build a mantle...


I've one more question:
Are you still okay with the idea that Angharad had traveled with Tabeta and Arui from The Plains of Taren to the Capital city of Druvir?   It'll be easier for me, if so.  I can have Arui request to have you on-board...

A Start in on a Spirit-Talker mantle

There's one by this name on the Emerald City online (dresden files, I think) game...   I used that as a basis.  THis sort of captures what I see as her foundation.   But, it's up to you to tell me if we're even close with this.  If NOT, or even fi so, I'd love to hear a lot mroe about how you envision this.

What can she do?  And what--of what she can do--should cost her something?

I want to strike a balance between

• Those things she can do because we've given you narrative license in the form of an Aspect or two, and
• Those things she can do, but that should come with an actual cost of some sort.

I'm a firm believer that magic should cost something.  It's a zero-sum game, and that means if you move magic here, it has to come from somewhere.    Raising powers via rituals (which, again, everyone can do) takes time and energy.  So to should magical rituals involving the spirits.

Talking to them shouldn't cost anything (no more than talking to people).  Convincing them to help... as much as they can... same thing.  Just like people.   But when you convince them to cross boundaries and do stuff that they wouldn't normally do (like borrowing a bear's strength or a skunk's spray attack), that should cost something.

So, with that in mind, what do you think of this for a start?:


Spirit Mystic


Conditions:

Spirit-Obligations (sticky): [_][_][_][_][_]
This condition uses five boxes to represent your significant spiritual capital, which translates to a constant supply of local spirits to help you. Mark a box when you draw on your spiritual resources for this mantle’s stunts.

Remove the marks on this condition by:

• Waiting (one box per chapter)
• Exchanging shifts of stress in this stress-track for Consequences of indebtedness to the relevant spirit.
• Fulfilling the obligations of oaths made to the spirit in question
  Demonstrating adherence and honor of the spirit's goals and intentions

While it is possible to take on multiple consequences from one or more spirits, the more such obligations you take on, the sooner one or more of the spirits will demand that you take action on their behalf.

Angered the Spirits (sticky): [ ]
You've violated the spirit world's trust too many times or too often.   While the Angered the Spirits" condition is marked, you may no longer use the Spirit-Obligations condition to fund associated stunts.. Recover from Angered the Spirits when you have made restitution with the spirits.


(Potential) Core Stunts
The High-Concept provides a basic narrative excuse to say that you can perceive and interact with spirits.  But this assumes that said spirits, interact, socially, like people--meaning that they talk to you because they wish to.  Spirits, like people, may choose to try to hide, may not wish to speak to you, etc.  Your own social skills come into play to manage this.

The stunts, therefore, are not focused on presenting what you can already do by virtue of your High-Concept.  Instead, we explore other potential areas of coolness...

• All Spirits Are One...
  Check a box of Spirit-Obligation to access either an Aspect or a bonus in something that a minor spirit you are associated with is experienced in.  This can be represented as you allowing the spirit to imbue you (gain the Hunter's Eye of the Eagle, for instance.) or it may represent you possessing the animal in question (literally "riding the Eagle" to use it's vision to scan an area).  Check one box per aspects and/or area of competence, with a maximum of +2 in any one area. Use your fate points to invoke these aspects on your behalf.
  
• Intervention
  Mark Spirit-Obligation to call upon the local spirits for favors. One box grants automatic success to a task (provided it is without risk) without having to roll or play out a scene. Two boxes may provide NPCs or a spiritual/magical resource to assist with a dangerous task.
  
  If at least three boxes are unmarked, you may mark the entire track for a powerful Local Spirit to intervene on your behalf and resolve a situation utterly unresolvable under your own power. This particular action requires formally petitioning the spirit and convincing them that the intervention is in their best interest.

How much does it matter that she's Hanjool (and not, say, Rhaine or Soujoo or any of another handful of possible names that haven't actually been defined)

For tribal cultures, I was under the impression what tribe you were from mattered. The culture of each tribe is also well defined and well known between tribes. Note I didn't define what the culture of the Hanjoo is.


So, what kind of place are you envisioning Venti as being?
I intended the Vendi to be another tribe of the Tarenti. We can change it if you want. Or we can just come up a place he lived near the borderlands.


I'd love to put Gadjibool as a someone working with the spirits of the borderlands along the two lands.
That sounds awesome. That makes that Aspect have a bit more weight.

Thus, everything can be interacted with.
This works for me, I just didn't want to assume this.


I've one more question:
Are you still okay with the idea that Angharad had traveled with Tabeta and Arui from The Plains of Taren to the Capital city of Druvir?
Sure. That's fine with me.

I was under the impression what tribe you were from mattered.
It does if you want it to.  Very little has been defined here, so there's lots of room to play.  Of course, we can do that in-play...

I intended the Vendi to be another tribe of the Tarenti.
Oh.  ha-ha.  Okay.  That works too.

Everything else in message 19.  Okay.  works for me.

A Start in on a Spirit-Talker mantle
So, with that in mind, what do you think of this for a start?:
Looks awesome. Thanks for turning this out. I have a couple of questions.


The High-Concept provides a basic narrative excuse to say that you can perceive and interact with spirits.  But this assumes that said spirits, interact, socially, like people--meaning that they talk to you because they wish to.
How quick would this happen? At seconds speed in combat?

All Spirits Are One...
Check a box of Spirit-Obligation to access either an Aspect or a bonus in something that a minor spirit you are associated with is experienced in.  Check one box per aspects and/or area of competence, with a maximum of +2 in any one area. Use your fate points to invoke these aspects on your behalf.
Is this like creating an Advantage? Don't I get free invocation? Do I understand how you intend this to interact with the ruleset?

This is still a rough-out.  But we needed a place to start from to discuss and refine, after all.   I still want us to think of some alternative stunts, for instance, because what I put together there isn't real strong... and not all stunts need to be powered by Spirit-Obligation...


The High-Concept provides a basic narrative excuse to say that you can perceive and interact with spirits.  But this assumes that said spirits, interact, socially, like people--meaning that they talk to you because they wish to.
How quick would this happen? At seconds speed in combat?
Oh, good point!   I think the very nature of what she does--the contacting the spirit, the negotiations, etc...  I don't see that happening at combat speeds.    So, if she's ambushed, she's not really in a position to call upon the spirits... But, if she's had a chance to prepare... she can be hell on wheels!

So, maybe that's an avenue of consideration for what we might want to cover with the mantle.  What holes do you want to fill (and what holes dare you okay with?).

I can see a potential set-up for a group situation...  a modified challenge (Fate Core pg 172) where, so long as you successfully defend yourself, you can power the the ritual , but the others need to keep the bad guys off of you long enough for you to do so..



All Spirits Are One...
Check a box of Spirit-Obligation to access either an Aspect or a bonus in something that a minor spirit you are associated with is experienced in.  Check one box per aspects and/or area of competence, with a maximum of +2 in any one area. Use your fate points to invoke these aspects on your behalf.
Is this like creating an Advantage? Don't I get free invocation? Do I understand how you intend this to interact with the ruleset?
Yes, actually...  It's just like Creating an Advantage.  And, yes,  any time you bring an Aspect (situation Aspect, Narrative Aspect, or a Consequence on an opponent, for instance), you get a free invoke.     Unlike an Aspect brought into play with a dice-roll, though, you don't get the option of a success with style, so there is no chance for a free second invoke.

In looking this particular stunt over again, I'm not sure I'm terribly pleased with it...  It's just not terribly different from just invoking the High-Concept.    Will consider some more...


In general, I see Angharad being able to do both:

• Get the world around her to do things by proxy (get a swarm of bees to give her the location of the scarlet sunflower) by negotiating with the spirit of those things...
• She can take on an attribute of a spirit to boost or replace her own skill-levels

Will give some thought to other avenues of expression of the Spirit-Obligations track...  May have to start looking at some old World of Warcraft and Everquest books for class influences...
This message was last edited by the GM at 06:29, Tue 27 Oct 2020.

Here's an idea to address the combat-speeds issue...

Fetishes
A fetish is a physical symbol representing an agreement already made between you and a spirit.  Mark one box of Spirit-Obligations to describe one such item and create an additional Aspect for your character, with the associated free-invoke.  Work with the GM to determine the specifics.  If the effect you desire is too powerful the GM may charge a fate point for its use.  You may lend your item to another character, allowing them to take on this Aspect in your stead. You may mark off additional boxes of Spirit-Obligations to use this fetish more than once.

Damn.  I like that.  But it's also potentially hella powerful.  Definitely needs to be powered by the Spirit-Obligations stress-track!

But it's also potentially hella powerful.  Definitely needs to be powered by the Spirit-Obligations stress-track!


So that would solve the speed in combat. You make it only usable near the spirit that owes the debt. That would mean I would have to work more frequently to set spirit affects up. You might not like the maintenance of that every time we move half a mile of so.

As to proximity, when I said "local" I was thinking more regional/biome.   Do you feel that every "half a mile or so" she should stop and perform a ritual to the supplicate the spirits?  Yes, I agree that that will quickly become tiresome--if you wished to roleplay it out each time.   The question then become... why does she feel she must do this every half mile or so?

Spirit-bartering should be an every-day thing for her.  Most times, it's not even a thing she even thinks about.  Of course, we'll cover one or two interactions to establish it in the story, but most the time, if it's not drama or drama-enabling, I don't want to spend too much time on it.

A key note:
We are not pre-defining the effect stored in the fetishes.   You can decide that at the time-of-use.   The fetishes are simply a narrative excuse to say that you had an agreement already in place.

You make it only usable near the spirit that owes the debt. That would mean I would have to work more frequently to set spirit affects up. You might not like the maintenance of that every time we move half a mile of so.

Oh, that's interesting.  "The spirit that owes the debt".   I'd been viewing it the other way around.  Angharad wants something from the spirit and agreed to take on the Obligation in exchange for services promised.   I suppose in an agreement that hasn't been executed, both parties are in beholden.

No Pre-Payment?
The typical way I'd envisioned this was: they agree, she makes spirit-obligation and get the Aspect/thing.  Then, she has to pay off the obligation by performing some action that we say she needs to do).  Until she meets her Obligation, the debt is hers.

Is it possible for her to pay off the debt before making use of the service? 
In this model, no...  because if she pays the cost and doesn't use it, there's an imbalance...  But I kinda feel like this should be a thing...

Would you consider a sliding scale approach, instead?  Something that allows her to "pre-pay"?

Perhaps instead of the Spirit-Obligation track being a ledger of transactions, we model it on the general regard with the Spirits around her.  (So, if she wanted to escape bad debts, she could flee to another part of the nation...)   I'll go do some reading up on Reputation models in Fate.  I suspect that might be a good alternative model.

I know this kind of back and forth can be... tiring/boring?  But once we get the mechanics nailed down, it'll become a lot smoother...

Hmmm. I wonder if the debts could go any way. I could owe, be owed or have a contact to negotiate a debt. We would just need a way to track them. The fetish could represent a negotiation. When I owe could be on the spirit track. I'm not sure how to track when I am owed a service. We could make the track -2 to 5 with 0 being the starting point.

I think we're essentially on the same page.

I really want to avoid having to keep track of dozens of obligations.  That's tiresome and so potentially rife for abuse that it would be an interest-killer.

Cara has a mantle that is very powerful but also particularly limited, and I think that might work as a basis for developing something here.   So,--as I'm still reading up on reputation options--let's hold off on stunts for now until we get the big Condition agreed-upon.


I'll try to put some options up later tonight...

Well, time didn't work with me as well as I thought.

Here's a couple of options we can use as a framework...
Fate Codex Anthology vol. one has an interesting article:
Relationships With Influence by Steve Radabaugh

It basically ties the character to another and creates a stress-track based on just how close the two of them are...  Each time there's a "bonding incident" that brings the two together, a single shift is added to the relationship stress-track.  In that way, one can gain influence over the individual in question.

This is not unlike the idea presented in the dresden Files Accelerated RPG of having a patronage to the Winter Fae or Sumemr Fae.

So... with those two in mind...

Option One:  Patronage

UNIQUE CONDITIONS

Patrons (sticky): [_][_][_]
This condition uses three boxes to  represent Angharad's significant social capital with the spirit world.  This translates  to a number of invested spirit-patrons who can and will offer aid.

Mark a box when you draw on your Patron for this mantle’s stunts. Recover this condition by waiting (one box per session) or by investing time to act to further your patrons goals, or meet with your Patron, who will advise of a situation necessitating Angharad's intervention.

Disfavored (sticky): [_]
Violating the Patron's trust marks this condition. While Disfavored Angharad may no longer use any of the abilities associated with her mantle.  Recover Disfavored when she has made appropriate restitution, as per the GM.


CORE STUNTS
Pick two.  You may purchase the third with a point of refresh.

Do Something for Me...
Angharad may call upon the spirit Patron to perform a task on her behalf.  This is more than just performing a single Action.  It might be talking to Grandfather Mouse to get the rough layout of the keep, or The Eagles of Aren Woods to search for signs of troop movements...    What differentiates this from the every-day don't-need-to-record-a-cost is the scale and risk involved.

Let Me Do Something
Angharad may call upon the Spirit Patron to grant her access to a special attribute associated with the spirit in question.  When activated, she will add an appropriate Aspect reflecting the nature of the effect she's taking on.

This is much more advanced than invoking an Aspect for a straight +2 to an Action, or Creating a mechanical Advantage which can be invoked/compelled.  Using this stunt confers superhuman powers:  a skunk's scent-attack, a A bird' magnetic-sense, a the sudden acquisition of venomous saliva.  The duration of the effect and any additional costs will be agreed upon with the GM, but typically will default to being present for the current scene.

Fetishes:
Those who enjoy spirit patronage often have fetishes among them.

Once per session, the player may describe one of these items and create an ad hoc stunt effect related to itsfunction, which they may use for the rest of the scene.
Work with the GM to determine the specifics according to the rules.   If the effect desired is powerful, the GM may charge a fate point for its use, at their discretion.  This item may be lent to others who may use it in their stead.

And here's the foundation of my thinking, lifted from the Dresden Files Accelerated RPG:

This might work as is, actually.  Depends how simple or complicated you want it to be.  The three stunts I listed above do basically fit under this.  And I do like the less mechanically-oriented approach.


Indebted (sticky): [_][_][_][_][_]
This condition has five boxes. Mark one or more boxes when you have accrued a debt to a powerful group, person, or entity. The number of boxes you mark depends on the magnitude of the favor done for you; the GM has final say.

Recover boxes of Indebted by doing favors for the lender in return, on their terms. Typically, a fairly safe but challenging task recovers one box, a dangerous task recovers two boxes, and a task that puts you in mortal danger or could otherwise permanently impact you recovers all boxes.

You may carry debt with more than one lender, but must recover them separately. Thus, if you have one box of debt to a demon and one to a local sorcerer, when you do something for the demon worth two boxes of recovery, it does not remove your debt to the sorcerer. If all boxes are full and you wish to acquire more debt, you may default on one of your current debts—the GM will tell you what happens, but you may clear out those boxes for further use

I would also allow you to take on a Consequence to clear out some boxes...
This message was last updated by the GM at 10:09, Fri 30 Oct 2020.

So, I got thinking about what kind of situation would entail A Spirit to be obligated to Angharad?  And I shy away a little from that idea, because that also gets tied up with the idea of scale, which I don't want to make too big a thing in this game.

Angharad rescued a little blue-bird from the first winter's frost.  This is a small obligation...  What would she have to do to have Blue-Bird (note the capitals--we're talking about the spiritual essence and concept of a Blue Bird, here)...  What kind of things would incur enough of an obligation?  I think, the reality is that this is getting too granular or two intangible to start trying to quantify.

This is why I lean towards the "Indebted" or "Patronage" approaches.

But, I do still like the idea of a sliding scale...

So, rather than it modeling and tracking debts and obligations, what if it were to track reputation and personal regard from the spirit in question.  We're not talking the lower-case spirits here.  We're talking capitals all the way!

So...
Regard (sticky): [-3][-2][-1] - [0] - [+1][+2][+3]
As one who communes with the spirits, you have acquired a special relationship with one particular spirit patron.  You are recognized as being associated with that Spirit-Patron's court.  The higher your Regard, the more you may call upon the powers of the spirit in question to do amazing things.

The level of regard you have has a direct impact on your ability to call upon your Patron, and it a direct correlation to how difficult it is to negotiate for your Patron's blessings.   A negative regard runs the risk of losing you Patronage.

---

This particular approach would tie you pretty heavily to one specific Spirit-Court, so to speak.    Binding heavily with the Wolf Court does not mean you can't make deals with rabbits or deer.  But when talking to the big-S Spirits, you are known to be associated with Wolf.  At the highest level, you may even be trusted to speak on behalf of Wolf.

Your play in-game will have an impact on your Regard.   At the end of each chapter, we will discuss if there needs to be any change of Regard from your Patron based on your character's actions.   Burning down a forest might not endear you to Wolf, after all...   But lobbying the King to ban the use of leg-hold traps across Kumlar... (fruitlesss as that would be) certainly might...


I could see potentially takign on other Patrons so long as we had an agreed upon limit to how many Patrons she can have this kind of of arrangeemnt with.     Nathan has three sigils active at a time, I think... and Cara has three boon benefactors.   So, I'd feel that possibly, three Patrons is acceptable.   However, I'd also want a cap on the max number of Regard shifts in play.  And I wouldn't want that to go above five, at the moment...  (so Spirit-1: +1, Spirit-2: +2, Spirit-3: +2 is acceptable).

I'm not entirely sold on this yet...  If you're interested in pursuing this, I'm going .to want to discuss it a bit more and let it sit for a bit

You start at zero.  Actions you take during the course of the game will alter






Hmmm. I wonder if the debts could go any way. I could owe, be owed or have a contact to negotiate a debt. We would just need a way to track them. The fetish could represent a negotiation. When I owe could be on the spirit track. I'm not sure how to track when I am owed a service. We could make the track -2 to 5 with 0 being the starting point.

I'm going to say again. I'm impressed by your presentations here.

So I like the concept of more generalized Spirit Patrons. Shadowrun is a game I am very familiar with which also uses the concept of a Spirit Patron that enhances your abilities in environments that are favorable to that Patron. So I could readily work with that.

I agree with you that a small action for a small Nature entity seems weird to obtain a debt that could cause a major landslide to bury her enemies.  Also activities that help Nature entities in general, should fall under the expectation that Angharad supports the natural world. These activities would be normal spirituality for her and would stretch credulity for her to gain power by performing helpful actions. We need a measure that scales for what it's used for.

I like the most recent idea of capital letter spirits being Patrons. I even like the idea of Angharad being able to engage multiple Patrons. However, I'm not sure how Wolf Patron would be radically different in assistance than Squirrel Patron. They would both be interested in helping Angharad ride the biome of iron mine pollution. And Angharad would be unwilling to undertake action that would radically alter the ecology of an area like driving all the wolves out at the behest of Squirrel Patron.

Given the similarity of Nature Patrons, it might be useful to manage Angharad's regard using a single Nature Patron. When asked for help by Angharad, individual spirits could see the high or low regard the natural world has for her to help sway their decision.

I think I'm most leaning toward Option 1 in general. I might prefer the -3 to +3 scale discussed in Option 2.

I'm going to say again. I'm impressed by your presentations here.

Oh, that's a relief.  I was worried I'd overwhelmed you.  While I admit that I really like playing with the system, it's not necessary for the vast majority of in-character play.


... However, I'm not sure how Wolf Patron would be radically different in assistance than Squirrel Patron.
I'm inclined fall-back to some pseudo-spritual takes on totems to differentiate what each can bring to the table and what their respective agendas are.

Wolf: is definitely concerned about the welfare of the extended family, acknowledgement and reinforcement of a hierarchical structure, communal goals and "working-together", but equally capable of working alone towards an individual or shared goal.   A Wolf typically "knows his place" in the pack hierarchy.  Squirrel is all about planning & persistence... and comedy.  Squirrel might lead you to unexpected resources (akin to the squirrel's food caches).  Squirrels also chatter--a lot, so maybe some social benefits to gossip and the like.

While their agendas may be both include taking care of their biomes,  I think there's other concerns...  A Squirrel enlisting an outside force to eradicate it's predators...  That would be a major affront the Spirit-Courts and the predator-prey agreement...  And I really like the idea of playing with a background "spirit-Court". Angharad has some insight, but she's human, and much of the workings would still be unfathomable to her.  But, she does see and understand much of it--far more than most.

Rakoth the Unmaker (the force behind the Mondain) is an entity from outside this reality.  As such, his presence is a huge unbalancing force.  And that's causing all sorts of strife in  the Spirit-Courts.  They're afraid...



Given the similarity of Nature Patrons...
I don't actually agree that all Nature patrons must he that similar...    I suppose they are from a humano-centric perspective.    But I don't want humans being cast as the bad guy all the time.  Esepcially when Rakoth and the Mondain are around...    And the twisted things from the Scar of Khadid...

There are other factions in the Spirit courts, that aren't just fauna.   What does the South Wind care about an iron mine?  Or Lightning?   Even The Apple Tree doesn't see the danger in it...  Fire, however... he's a great fan of the Iron Mine.  As is War.

If you've got a Spirit Patron, how would you feel about roleplaying out some of the characteristics of the patron?   So, if your patron is Fire, you might be blustery and indignant, and always hungry...   And if it's Mushroom, you might just want to be left alone in the dark, and kept cool...  Does that seem appropriate?

Mechanical Considerations

From a mechanical perspective, , this needs to be something you're comfortable with actually using... but I don't want it too broad and too simple.  Otherwise, there's no point to even having it as a mantle.

Do we really need a mantle for what we're trying to accomplish?
Can this be accomplished with the associated Aspects and some judicious stunts?

I really don't want it to be locked in to a singular patron "All of Nature."  That's simply that's too big and too broad and there's a major diminishment of drama in this.   Do you ever foresee her being at a -3 with all of nature?  I don't.

Actually...  I'm not really seeing conditions where a Spirit owes her coming up often enough to make it worth having this the format for a stress-track.


Sliding Scale
So... you've said that you're in favor of a sliding-scale stress-track along the lines of "[-2][-1][0][+1][+2][+3]"   Can you tell me why?

I get what happens when she's in the positive areas... she either has a positive rapport with the defined Patron or she's drawn on the patron's rapport that numerous times to that level of obligation.   But I don't understand what happens to make it go negative and what it represents.

The existing mantles tend to be set-up as five boxes, representing increasing obligations on your part in exchange for boons already granted.   A negative rating would suggest that you've done significant work on behalf of the patron and are also on equal footing with the capital-S spirit to be able to  command that such a debt must be paid.  I just don't see that as the case.

So, I'm left assuming that it tracks the level of Regard the Spirit-Patron has for you, and how likely it is to help you.  Each major use of a boon from your Patron will diminish your standing on that track (moving left on the track), while doing big things will move you right on the track.

But... does it make a difference whether it's (-2 to +3) or (0 to +5)?


Stunt Dynamics
If we go with the siding scale, I can see the possibility of a stunt which allows you to assign X number of shifts equal to your Regard/ rating to your skills list for the duration of a scene.   If you're at +3, that's +3 shifts for an entire scene.   If you're at negative numbers...  well, you could probably earn a fate-point by me compelling the Aspect to apply this stunt and taking away up to 2 shifts from your skill-list....

Okay.

Okay... I'm really wanting to start moving on this.

Can you please update your RPOL character sheet.

I'd really like to get the skills and stunts in place.  It can all be revised, but let's set the groundwork first please.
This message was last edited by the GM at 08:17, Thu 05 Nov 2020.

Mechanical Considerations

Do we really need a mantle for what we're trying to accomplish?
Can this be accomplished with the associated Aspects and some judicious stunts?

Sliding Scale
So... you've said that you're in favor of a sliding-scale stress-track along the lines of "[-2][-1][0][+1][+2][+3]"   Can you tell me why?  <snip>
But... does it make a difference whether it's (-2 to +3) or (0 to +5)?

You're right. I don't see a difference. I'm not sure a track is necessary. I'm just not sure what Stunts would fit in this case. Or how I can trigger them without earning regard with Patrons, Spirits or Divinity. If you can see a different way, I'm certainly open to it.

I did update Angharad's character sheet per what information I know of now. Not stunts yet.

I think we've got what we want here.

A mantle-track provides an alternate pool to fund a series of powers.  We just need to agree on what we're tracking.

Regard?   Who's regard?    Individual spirits seems too limiting, but :the entire spirit world" seems way too broad.  So, I'm suggesting "spirit houses" which a vague and undefined conglomerate of associated spirits.   We need to figure out how the "houses" are delineated.     Is it all the spirits in a specific region?  all the spirits associated with fire? (fire, lava, potentially destruction


I admit that I'm getting a little worn on this.   If you're good with it as it stands, let's go with it.

In the mean-time, I'd love it if you could post in the  The Briney Goose thread, into bring Angharad into the game, I'd appreciate it.

I'm happy to tap in if you want help on Mantles.  I'd been staying away because you both seemed to have it well in hand.

I certainly wouldn't mind if you wanted to look it over and make recommendations.

We're close, I'm just not feeling like we're quite across the finish line yet.

Oh, and by the way, you're welcome to post in the 02.01: The Briney Goose and 02.02: Aboard the Hundari Kornmara threads.

So what I'm seeing here is that Angharad's Patrons are NOT going to be a source of conflict in their life, right?

That they are largely in harmony with their Spirit Patrons, and said Spirit Patrons are normal enough that they aren't going to be in conflict with each other?

That makes the traditional sort of Mantle that you might see in Dresden Files Accelerated for a Winter Knight hard, because the whole point of that Mantle is that you are given power in exchange for debt to an entity that does not have your best interests in mind.

What sort of magic do you want yourself to be able to do as a result of your Patronage?  You mentioned Shadowrun, in 5e Spirit Mentors give small stat bonuses.  Is that what you wanted?

Or did you want something more dramatic?