Cause i know you people like to talk...

(waves)

Dont worry too much about the RTJ.

I'm going back to the light company concept for all sorts of reasons.

Also going to open up the concept of conventional units for players too.

1 Player = (1) mech

or

1 Player = (1) VTOL plus (1) npc wingman

or

1 Player = (1) Tank plus (3) npc tanks

or

1 Player = (1) Infantry Commander plus (?) Squads of Infantry.

New campaign, and i only decided to start a new one this morning, and to make it RR vs Clans a few hours ago, so very much still in the mulling over phase.

I'm under the presumption that peeps want to run nothing but mechs unless i'm told otherwise btw.

At most I expect 12 mechwarriors and perhaps half that in conventional players.

Still working out how conventional will work, I have an inkling but till I hear player interest there is no point in typing up what players won't be using.

Hello all!  Here to kibbitz while Kitten takes her break.  Hopefully she'll poke her paws in occasionally but in the meantime 'hi'!

In reply to David Crain (msg # 5):

(waves)

Most gave me no character names so i named you as i felt like it.

Hi!!  Actually, I'd like to take a shot at leading tanks.

So noted, theres a whole Cavalry company, but each player controls a lance is the theory, so there is only room for three calvalry players.

Conventional units will be assigned though.  Since it's a light mech company, the conventional support will be heavier and slower to provide a little more firepower and endurance to fights.

They're expected to be around 30 ish tons and similar to my campaign Pattons, the player rides in a command variant while the rest of the lance is made up of the more fragile 'standard' variant.

They move 4/6... take okay damage, and will be important to support the lighter mech company.

So will we have access to 3050 versions of those available mechs or are we starting with older mechs, so to speak, that will need to be modified accordingly?

Right... so i've determined an absolute cap of 20 players for this campaign.

i've also loosened the requirements on mech selection for player, though it should be observed that this is considered a Light Company, and the total weight of the company is going to be capped at 350 tons.  I've noted estimated weights for the three lances, as well as the archetype slots that will be open for each lance...

This is tentative at the moment and still evolving.

I'm going to make an effort to include conventional units this time around, the RR relied on them heavily since they were a minor state and more defensive minded.  Veteran players in my campaign no they dont suck, but they do have limitations, nuff said.

Air Cavalry ~ A decent weapon payload, with the option to replace them for energy strafing, or drop racks for bombing.  These is the campaigns Aerotechs.  Nimble on the field with a punch that cant be ignored.  Their only failing is their frailty. Air Cavalry players will control a 12 ton Warrior VTOL, and have a VTOL wingman.

Cavalry ~ For those of you that like to focus on weapons over speed, the Cavalry is the way to go.  Cavalry players will be Tankers in the classical sense and control a 30ish ton Tracked tank, and have (3) other NPC tracked tanks in their lance.

Infantry Commander ~ For those of you interested in Roleplaying things from the ground, and developing lots of NPCs, Infantry is worth a consideration.  Develop the skills they have, pick out the weapons they will specialize in, and take them out to the battlefield to face David and Goliath odds every time.  Your character will be the commanding officer in charge of an Infantry Platoon made up of (3) line squads and (1) support squad.

(1) character for each player, so figure out if you really want to give up mechs for conventional units.

3050 variants are available, though you will have to make availability rolls for them.  It might be easier to take a 3025 mech, and simply modifiy them into a 3050 mech.

Counting myself, we have 5 players already, which is 25% of the total population of the campaign, so were off to a good start without even opening the doors for play.

pre-registration has it's advantages in that you have the run of the shop at this time to pick out what archetypes youre interested in.

Cavalry and Infantry commanders will need a little extra work, since i have to dig up their archetypes and explain new rules, which mostly deal with initiative, and commanding their NPC lance.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:39, Thu 03 Mar 2016.

I'm going to plan on shaking out the rules with the available player base, and then after that shakes out and i'm comfortable open the campaign up to general recruitment, which if the past is any hint, will be a zoo.

A little (*very* early) theorycrafting here, but is anyone else interested in running C3 on their mechs?  We're going to need all the advantages we can get when Kitten finally throws us under the bus... I mean in front of the Clans :)

Assuming I was going to stick with a mech pilot...I had considered the Panther PNT-C that had the slave unit.  Biggest problem is a mech that has the open space for a full C3 system...especially based on the limited mech options Kitten is working with right now.

If you want to experiment with C3, we'll be moving to effectively a (3) mech lances.

The Fourth unit would probably be a 20tn Pegaus Hover tank that avoids combat, which will need 5 tons of space for the C3 master, which wont leave much room for weapons, so you'll be going to, effectively a three mech lance.

The lance would be responsible for picking up the C3 slave units which are 250k CB each, weight one ton and take up one critical as well as the master unit which cost  1.5 million CB.

The cost to 'buy' into this lance would be about 750k cb.  Sorta steep, but the Tech Warrior has 3.5 million at start up, and would have 2.75 million after paying the cost for the C3 equipment, so it's certainly feasible.

If theres really an interest to put C3 in the campaign, i'll designate a lance for C3, and three player mechs that will have to pay 750k cb out of their starting cash to buy the C3 equipment for the lance to use.  This cost is an estimate, and i'm not heartless, if you want to take a Bugwarrior into the C3 lance which has 2.5 million i can bend the budget a little so that you have a little more than 1.75 million to purchase a mech.

So... do you want me to put this lance on the books?

---

Keep in mind that if your Pegasus cant join the fight for terrain issues, or if theres a Guardian on the map, that it's going to seriously hurt the fuction of the C3, if you accept the cost, and these limitations i'm good with forming the unit up.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:46, Thu 03 Mar 2016.

A Techwarrior could also take a Valkyrie and yank the LRM10 for space and tonnage and then shift the HS in the same torso out to make space for a C3.  It would be more capable than the Pegasus to go into lots of different terrains if a bit light on weapons.

You could, but in my opinion youre asking a lot of someone to pilot a mech after handing over nearly 3/4 of a million Cbills, to have to give up 5 tons and 5 crits, youre essentially standing around for C3 master support.

I'm not going to put an NPC out with a C3 master, because then the temptation for players to use it for combat of some sort, even if it's just a punch, kick, or to find the range for another player would be too high.  A Pegasus tank with zero capability for combat has no such temptation, it also fits the pegasus' reputation for being an EW platform.

This is my fair fire solution, if players want to form up a lance, and can figure out among them who's going to be a useless field piece to house a C3 master, I'll wipe my hands and let you sort it out.  My prediction is, that no one will want to house the master and the C3 concept wont get off the ground.  My way is fair.  Everyone coughs up 750k cb, and makes space for a 1 ton / 1 crit slave unit.  Everyone that is using the C3 network, is paying in equally for it in cost, and modification space.

From past rulings, you should know by now that i'm big on making sure the status quo is kept and no one is handicapped or benched unfairly, if you're looking for C3 this is the fairest way to do it. (I have given thought to this for a while, since Mac's game to be honest... I wanted to stuff a master on my Raven's EW suite but Mac wouldnt let me.)

Gave it some thought, and the Cavalry lances will be made up of four tanks between 30 and 33 tons, one of them a Command Variant, this will give the Cavalry player an opportunity to pick out tracked tanks that they want to work with.

30 tons ~ Bulldog, LRM Carrier, SRM Carrier, Manticore, or Pike
33 tons ~ Axel MkI, Patton, or Rommel.

This notation is mostly for Teri who is going Cavalry, but is noted here for anyone else that might be considering it.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:31, Thu 03 Mar 2016.

I'm sure we're clever enough to come up with solutions.  The only real point I would raise regarding C3 is that we need enough people onboard to make it worthwhile.  Once (if) we get that it's a matter of conniving ahead to take advantage of the tactical flexibility C3 offers.

I might be looking at a tech-warrior again.  I have an idea for a 2xPPC, 3xML, C3S Blackjack that could be quite interesting.  I would probably have to go lighter keeping Kitten's weight restrictions in mind.

I would be also eventually interested in seeing what you come up with, Kitten.

I'm going to play around with how to make it work and still be somewhat combat capable.

Valkyrie 3025 is cheap enough with techwarrior to not only pull the launcher and move things but buy the C3 Master Unit themselves.  It's the only mech that can do so with the 200k drop in funds a the start.

Kitten is right that it's much easier to use a Pegasus, but it's fragility since it has to be on the same board as the other units, combined with it's inability to move through woods to avoid units with ECM that could cut the connection of the C3 to the slave units makes it more difficult.

Stand corrected after a little math.

Just the Valkyrie, Buying a C3 and the install cost of it makes it too expensive for a starting character to foot.  Which doesn't even include the cost of pulling the LRM and moving the Heat Sinks around to open up crit space.

If we wanna do the C3 setup we'll either have to do it Kitten's way or pick up the C3 after the fact and sit on the slaves/have them installed but not usable till later.

An advantage of doing it your way, is that you have four players footing the bill instead of three.

1.5 million for the master and .75 million for three slave sis 2.25 million, split four ways it's 512,500 cbills for the hardware, of course, there is the small matter of the modification cost to put on top of this, but really it's only going to be bad for who ever installs the master unit.

1.5 million x .3 for a valkyrie is 450k cb to install the master unit, if were going to be kind on this, we can divy out some of this installation cost to their lance mates, but really, if you stick a master in a valk, do you really want to put the valk at risk?  Five crits is large, it's going to be sitting in a torso, if that torso gets torn off, which happens pretty often, this whole concept is shot.  Also, with five tons of dead weight in the mech, what exactly is the valk going to do for combat?  Trigger off three medium lasers is the best i can guess at, and really, do you want this valk getting that close to a clan mech with a 1.5 million dollar computer in its chest?

I'll stand on the concept that the NPC pegasus with a master unit works better.

If you split the cost of the stuff across everyone sure there is enough.

Sure it potentially is at risk of damage but so is the Pegasus cause it can't be nebulously off the board and as you pointed out even with it being a hover unit it has limitations...No woods, No steep assent/decent, No airless, No under water.

The Pegasus will be within engagement range of Clan mechs as much as a Valkyrie would be and is far more fragile.  Not saying it's the best unit to hold a C3 but out of the available options it is due to it's mobility.

(shrugs)

Even if you play it in a Valkyrie a 1/6 of the mechs GROSS weight, is going to be dedicated to this thing.  You dont have much of a mech to fight with, and given the cost of the Master unit, you shouldnt be fighting with it.

It's a boring job that i wouldn't ask anyone to roleplay.

If you're deadset against having it installed on a Pegasus, I'll provide an NPC Valkyrie for a platform, but the players are going to pay for the installation cost.

1.50 million for the Master
 .75 million for three slaves
 .45 million to install it in the NPC's valkryie

2.70 million split three ways is a cost of 900k cb from each of the C3 players, for the extra 150k cb, the Master platform would be upgraded from a Pegasus Hover tank to an NPC Valkyrie.


Your character would be part of the C3 lance, and handed a C3 slave, that he would have to still modify onto his mech some way.  A one ton /critical item is a spare heat sink or medium laser and should be a breeze to fit in.

that's about as good as it gets from what i can see for what you want and a cost solution to buy into it.

We dont have to fill out the lance 'now', we dont have a full unit yet and a new player might want to buy into it which is fine, if not, and NPC will slot to fill empty positions.
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:46, Thu 03 Mar 2016.

Well...

Considering the Valk's weapons would be linked into the C3 system it would be able to take advantage of the system too.  Take the shortest route from one of the linked mechs to the target, potentially ignore woods that would make the shot impossible, and fire at long range but only be short cause that is where the other mech is.

No more boring than a properly played Raven with Beagle/Guardian really?  Between X-Tech and Tinker you also get options for simulating Beagles and Guardians as well as weapon swapping.

I'm not saying she'll be a sweet machine, but she will be unique and still playable.  With a little more money and Endo you open up more weapons/armour.

I'm just expanding on the same pure techwarrior concept that came from a Raven pilot.

 I would not be adverse to running a tank unit either, though i lean towards the 33 ton units. I suspect that Lucius has plenty of good mech drivers but the ground pounder's could use a little close in units.

I was that Raven Pilot mind you, and the difference between a Valkyrie and a Raven is notable.  Aside from the obvious 5 ton difference, the Raven doesnt have Jump jets which gives it another 2.5 tons too work with.  The Raven's EW suite is a natural swap for the C3 Master, since the weight and criticals are so close it's not considered much of a modification, you still have space to work with to modifiy the mech to be combat ready.

Swapping the Valk's LRM for the C3 master, is pretty much going to be it's big mod.  Unless the pilot has tinker, they probably wont be able to even pull the extra heat sink for anything useful, so the most youre looking at is the ammo converting to another laser.  Even if you do convert the internals to Endo, what does it get you?  another 1.5 tons for... a medium and a small in the arms.  Mind you, to use these weapons you'd have to be at range 9 to fire them.

I still think it's a messy attempt, but if that's what you want to do, i wont hold you back.

Funny, that's two tankers now.

Cavalry is filling up faster than the mechs.  I wonder if that should tell me something.

o.O
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:23, Thu 03 Mar 2016.

Well David what do you think?

With Teri and Mikael likely going the route of the tanker crew, which is kinda cool all said and done, is it worth a PC dumping the stuff in or should we take up the Pegasus/NPC Valk in 4th position so that we have heavy combat capabilities and may have 1 ton of 'eh' should they not be around or it get destroyed?

That is the other reason why I suggest on a mech regardless...you destroy the IS of a vehicle and the whole thing is a flaming wreck and that 1.5 million c-bill C3 is completely destroyed.  At least in a mech with no ammo it's got more chances to survive and be pulled.

I still think the peg is more survivable.

Clanners will shoot mechs before tanks that are just parked there with no apparent weapons.

what honor is there in hammering an unarmed tank?

None, till their better sensors pick up the battle-link between the mechs and the peg and then destroy the peg with prejudice to deprive the honorless Spheroids of their deceptive practices. :P

Hey you want to pay extra money to have it on a mech instead of a Tank, i'm good with it.

(It would be too much overhead for me to participate in the Lance, so i'm taking a pass, i'm actually looking at being an cavalry or infantry commander this time around, though i'm waiting for players to sift out before deciding.)
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:33, Fri 04 Mar 2016.

Pros for mech-mounted:
more survivable
Tactically more versatile

pros for vehicle mounted:
cheaper
Clans typically ignore vehicles

I'm probably missing a few points but I can add those in later if I am.  Both have valid points but I'm leaning more towards a mech myself.

One further option to consider for mounting a C3M would be the panther -C.  Remove the standard C3S, the SRM-4, some heat sinks, upgrade remaining HS to DHS.  Remaining tonnage to distri

After recent events in the FRR there are likely to be a few panthers kicking around.

Cost would be more for a panther, and it's slower making it easier to trap and kill.

The slower speed of the Panther is why I didn't suggest slotting it in that.  Just like tossing it in a Blackjack or Hatchetman or Hunchback.  Too slow.  The C3 Master is the key to the entire network.  You block that all the slaves are useless in communication.  It'll take at least another 12 years before C3i rolls around and the issue is taken care of some, or just over 20 before Emergency Masters and Boosted Masters pop up.

With enough Tinker you might be able to core out a Javelin by removing it's Jump Jets and some of it's weapons to slot a C3 but then it would move 6/9/0 and once again be vulnerable in ways that a 5/8/5 Valkyrie wouldn't be because of it's jump jets.

You could do it with a Mirage, but not at start.  It would be a work in progress tossing in Endo, ripping out heat sinks and machineguns/small lasers.  Problem is it would be a 6/9/6 with (2) Mediums and a C3 Master.

Even the 3050 Valkyrie could do better with 5/8/5 a Pulse Medium and (2) Regular or ER Mediums depending on funds/acquisition rolls.

I'm presuming youre talking conjecture for yourself, because, as noted, the Master i offer is in a 3025 valkyrie, a straight swap, of LRM 10 for the C3 master, and probably a Medium laser to replace the LRM ammo.

Period.  This is not open for negotiations, beyond a selection of the above mech or a Pegasus Hover Tank.  It's an NPC unit, and i'm not doing a lot of bookkeeping on NPCs.

Correct.

Anything beyond base mod on a Valkyrie or Pegasus is all my talking conjecture for my pilot doing the mods on a mech and getting the other advanced tech.

Keep in mind you're going to be shy 900k cb for C3 equipment, if you want to mount it on a Valkyrie.

Even with a Tech warrior, 3.5 million less 900k cb is only 2.6 million CB, to buy your mech and make mods, which includes installing the C3 slave.

yeah... you can get a javelin, and install the slave but you wont have much money for anything else.

Mikael, Teri, do you have new character names you want to submit for use?

I'm starting bookkeeping of the Cavalry company.

Teri will command the second Lance.

Mikael will command the third Lance.

 Mikael is fine with me for the platoon's commanders name.

Cavalry Archetype is up.

You purchase your Command unit ride, the rest of your lance, you can pick and ignore the price tag.

Your NPC lance, starts with a quality of Regular.  Replacements will be Green, and may be in smaller Tanks, so it's in your interest to try and keep your NPCs alive.

Let me know if you need help with your characters.  Got much posted today, but i'm sure i forgot stuff, like the names of the perks for Cavalry.  (I have to look those up again)  If you see one that you like point to it, and i'll look up what they're called.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:39, Fri 04 Mar 2016.

Curious...

When it comes to Advanced Tech is it still going to be just as hard as it used to be or since it is so close to 3050 will it be much easier to acquire?  Which of course bleeds into going after a 3050 mech and the rolls to acquire them as a ride.

As an example the Valkyrie VLK-QD has Endo, Ferro, CASE, Artemis IV and a Pulse Laser.  Under the old it would be a Base TN6 + Variant 2 + Ferro 3 + Endo 4 + Artemis IV 1 + CASE 1 + Pulse Medium 1 = TN18

Virtually impossible unless you really play the options to get maximum bonuses.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:58, Fri 04 Mar 2016.

Just as hard, but the tech you get will be real Endo and ferro, the Beta stuff is all gone by now.

Old rules regarding double strength heat sinks will stand.  All heat sinks in the Engine are Single.  You are limited to only (4) DS/HS as outlined by old rules.  Hoff Heat sinks have been phased out and no longer exist.

Power Loaders no longer exist and are curious relics that can no longer be supported.

Omni weapons continue to exist (the ballistic weapons and munitions and what not)

---

When they come around, Clan heat sinks will be likewise limited.  The 10 Heat Sinks gained from the engine are all single, additional heat sinks are allowed to be double, and they are not limited to (4) DS/HS.

Plugsuits?  More curio relic or something that might pop up as a special reward?

Also David...

It's getting hard to do something good with C3 at the start.  I worked it a number of different ways but there is no clean way of doing it...as Kiten noted it's real messy without a proper platform and we are cash short, or if not cash short xp short to take advantage of it.  We may want to pick decent units and work on modding towards a C3 unit and 'buying' the Pegasus down the road by splitting the cost of that.  Then people who want in on it will pick up their own C3 slave units and then we can drop the big cost later.  Lets the two of us know who is serious or not.

Unless you do something obscene like take Lyran Minded to hop in a Panther, which is just sickness in my mind, and not the good kind ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 22:06, Fri 04 Mar 2016.

Really, imho, if you do it, you do it now. From the get go.  When you have a huge wad of cash (starting cash?) in your pocket, and no one anything set in stone, so you can either do it, and plan for it that way, or just give up on the concept and move on because if you cant coordinate it now, you wont get it later.

If youre going to settle for it on a Pegasus platform do it now?

It's 750k cb to buy into the network for three players.

Tech warriors get 3.5 million to start with, which leaves them with 2.75 million.

you can pick up a Valkyrie and have cash for mods or a Fire Javelin and be cash tight, but a baby Jenner.  Maybe even a Panther, i'm not sure i havent checked the price, but they're pretty affordable.

waiting to do this later... is like planning to get Accuracy 4 later, and settling for 3 at the start.  Sure... you can do it, but it means every xp you earn has to go towards it, meaning no growth.  Easier to get the Accuracy 4 now and pick up the small stuff later as you go along.  Same theory with the tech and hardware.

A good point as most would feel like it was too slow of an advancement post starting, but you are talking to the person who dropped almost a million on a huge ass autocannon on a long term project that never made it to fruition.

Hmm...

That gives me an idea for direction if we do this.  750k will cover the hardware, we'll still need to toss in somewhere between 50k (20 ton mech) to 87.5k (35 ton mech) which doesn't seem like much till you get down in the weeds after blowing 750k on tech instead of potentially option adds.

Question then will also be are the rules of not duplicating advanced tech rolls at start still in play for stuff like multiple pick-ups of Endo to open up the space for the C3 slave?

Well it would be 750k 3 ways.

If youre going to do this with four player mechs, it would be 2.25 split four ways which would be 512,500 cb each, and some sap gets stuck with a five ton, five crit dead weight piece of really expensive tech to defend.

not the way i would do it mind you.  Even on a valkyrie, that leaves you with a medium laser and only one free ton for more weapons.

Only way to do it on a Valk with a player is run acqusitition through the roof to do it on a 3050 Valk.  That'll leave you with 2.5 tons and a Medium Pulse as combat weapons.

Still the +2 variant added to the acquisition makes it nigh impossible to get any of the 3050 mechs even when within cost capability as most have both endo and ferro bumping the number up to +9 right off the bat.

Even the 3050/2750 Mongoose is a prohibitive TN17+
This message was last edited by the player at 04:38, Sat 05 Mar 2016.

hence, the logic of a three man lance and an NPC master.

Looks like almost all the older players that were still around at the end have moved over to the new campaign, including Arkarian, and hopefully Piotr eventually too.

By my count, that's six active players (counting myself), plus two planned reserves (Akarian and Piotr)


That leaves 12 empty seats, which is fine, cause i dont expect, or maybe even want... all the seats filled just yet.

Still going to wait on putting an open call out on the game, i want all you guys settled so i dont have to deal with your paper work before i do that, and i want to see how serious you peeps are about the C3 lance, and if so, how you want to go about it.

You know... Tech warriors is the obvious way to do it, but Bug warriors arent impossible either?

They start with 2.5 million, less 3/4 of a million they're down to 1.75 million.
That's enough for most 20 tonners with a little bit left over for modifications.

yeah... you're in a 20 tonner, extra option slot and 50 xp are good incentive for that too.  If youre doing a C3 with a Tech warrior youre going to be between 25 and 30 tons anyway.  At that point you have to ask yourself, if the extra five or ten tons you would get as a techwarrior are worth the option slot and xp you would get if you went the bug route.

Obviously... you're never going to fight a master on one of these, but a slave would fit fine.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:32, Sat 05 Mar 2016.

The advantage of the techwarrior is that when a lucky hit does come across and destroys the slave they have a high enough acquisition bonus to make getting a replacement possible.

just pointing at options, i dont judge good bad as much.  Personally i think the master c3 on a cheap peg is great, but you peeps want to load it on an expensive valk, or worse saddle it on a player mech.

I was just saying that it was possible to slot on a mech and possibly be part of a story background reason for it.  As I pointed out as well, it's a messy conversion because of the more limited mech options which I know is part of the story.

What we need is at this point is knowledge on is if anyone else besides David and myself are considering the whole C3 system.

Important because...

If it's three we'll definitely go the Pegasus route.

If it's four then I will need to seriously play the mod route to royally jack up things for a PC C3 Master on a 3050 Valk that I think could have both the C3 Master as well as a Pulse Medium and 2.5 more tons of weapons.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:21, Sat 05 Mar 2016.

Slots.

First come first serve.  If you're short,it'll be another NPC. No great issue.

I am sure you will find a third or I would float the concept and then it will be closed if there is really strong interest. I will float another three mech lance for it.

Ahhh right.

Well then David.  If you want to go that route and you've got a good idea to float that cost then I'll actually run with an older and wiser Lina.  Having lost her home she became a advanced tech black market agent who knows who to talk to about getting rare and exotic tech.  Over the years she moved as far away from the Taurian bastards that ruined her life and her family and settled in what would be the new Rasalhague Republic.  With their needs and her contacts she joined their forces in the hopes of helping a different group of people keep their home when she failed to help her own.  Her mech is variable but she will be a Techwarrior to gain almost as much acquisition bonus as possible.  Likely a Missile Spec to have some combat capability.

If not then I will have a much older Luc in a slightly modified Whitworth who stripped out the arm lasers and a bit of armour to add hands to the maligned beast and upgraded her engine so she moves 5/8/4 now with dual LRM10's and a single Medium Laser as long range faster moving fire support.  Also a Missile Spec, and has some rank/mental but will end up leaving someone in the cold when it comes to command in a lance since he's not a leader just a noble.

If no one wants to be lance lead/company lead then I'll need to do a little re-jiggering so that we don't get hammered in initiative and make a brand new RR leader...cause often I find myself in the position ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 01:00, Sun 06 Mar 2016.

Try and keep mods to a minimum guys, it's a pain to bookkeep the stuff, not to mention double check the math, and engine calculations are among the worst to track and bookkeep, cause god forbid you ever sell the mech, the calculations are all fouled up and you have to count everything up from scratch cause it's effectively a new mech.

I'm interested in filling out one of the Infantry Commanders

If I'm doing the Luc version with the Whitworth I'm never going to sell it, and since it's an upgrade rather than a downgrade your own notes say that it doesn't change the value of the mech.  Only if you slow them down does it.  It's very tempting since I can hit that 5/8 sweet spot that 40 ton mechs can do and it doesn't give up much in the way of firepower to do it at start.  It's a solid XO sorta mech to lay down support fire as evidenced from Olaf's days of using it.  Also could later install a C3 slave easily to maximize the LRM reign of death...just not at start which was why I mentioned that angle...but I'm very patient when needed.

Engine overhauls are probably a pain for the characters (not player) to do, and i know they are for the game master to do.  The RR probably does not have the resources to do many of these mods, so dont plan too hard on modifying that Whitworth is my suggestion.


If you have alternative concepts, very much i suggest going with one of the others.


So noted Anton, you wont have a lot of fire power but it'll be fun to play with i think...

Look over the infantry rules carefully, in the infantry link.

btw, it's not noted anywhere, but since you command a lance, it's mandatory for the character to have at LEAST a rank of one.

Mech Pilots 3 of 12
~ David Crain
~ Lucius McMurphy
~ Olaf Oleeson

~
~
~
~

~
~
~
~




Air Cavalry 0 of 3
~
~
~


Cavalry 2 of 3
~ Lt. Teri Knight
~ Lt. Mikael Blomquist
~

Infantry 1 of 2
~ Lt. Anton Shrike
~

Reserve players ~ Akarian and Piotr

Right don't do engine mods.  No Whitworth concept then.

I didn't mind the Whit, but the 4/6/4 move profile was frustrating when almost everyone else was running 6/9/- or 6/9/6.  I think I'll trot out Olaf as a bugwarrior again.  In tabletop games I always go for bigger machines, so playing a 20-tonner is a new experience.

Then the only question for you Olaf is if you want to do the C3 concept that has been floated when it comes to the mechwarriors.  Here is Kitten's comment to what David started...

I think the trade off of a potential ton of extra armor or additional ML/SL for the slave unit may be worth it in a Wasp or Stinger, but the initial outlay of 750K is daunting considering the bugwarrior's limited funds at the outset.

Maybe I could try running a Mongoose with a scout archetype, buy into the lance and still have enough to buy up fp and bankroll mods?

Mercury MCY-98 runs 1,580,440 with two ML and two SL with 4 tons of armour and goes 8/12/0 out of the box.  Pull the two SL for the ton  needed for the Slave unit and slap it in the now open Head crit spot.

She doesn't jump but moves right quick.

I'm looking at a Commando COM-3A myself.  Less armour at the start but dual SRM6 with a ML and Flamer.  Drop the ML for the Slave unit and keep the Flamer for anti-infantry duty.

Hmm yeah lots to think about here, *waves*

C3 is an interesting idea, though at this weight class, I do wonder if there is enough benefit to be gained from it, vs cost and reduced effectiveness in general. (this also depends on how missions sorte, if there is multiple lances out at once and there is buy in from other mechs than it starts to become more appealing.)

Another way to look at it, is as really really really expensive TAG.

The weight for both is the same?

It'll give commanding officers an incentive to look harder at, and use Copper Heads, Hawkeyes, and on occassion Arrow IV.

The Infantry Company automatically has some LRM (hawkeye) support (really modest support) for their TAG weapons (if they go that route).

I know Teri was looking at SRM and LRM carriers, if she plunks down even on LRM carrier, that could work really well for C3/TAG assistence to help offset the small size and limitation of firepower.

You're all veterans of the game, you know how much damage the hawkeyes can do when they focus and hone in on one target.

I was looking at some of the options and might make a true mobile strike force. Jump troopers and Engineers to harass conventional support. Infantry have such a hard time against mechs until they get big experience gains or sweet equipment. Make something similar to ODST or the Stormtroopers from 40k Imperial Guard.

How can my infantry best support the mechs?

Infantry is never ever going to be known for being heavy hitting damage on the map.

Their best function, will be for the less obvious combat rolls.

Advance infiltration, spotting for indirect support, and the destruction of combat targets like buildings, that will allow the mechs to free up their fire power to things that are shooting back at them.

They have a role, they're just not going to ever be known as front line fighters.

Eventually... you're going to have to look at dealing with elementals, which will be interesting as conventional infantry deals with powered armor.

Really really really down the line, you may look at power armor options as the inner sphere catches up with clan technology.

All your troops start off as 'green', but you can buy their expereince up at the start (akin to buying mechs for mechwarriors), and spend money on your rank bumps (1000 gp for a level of rank from leadership/noble).  Keep in mind making money is going to be rough on infantry though.  You just dont have the firepower to take out units to earn combat salvage so be prepared to work with a really small budget.  Repair pools to replenish things like hawkeyes for your AMCs are going to be important.

That's why I was looking to have my support squad take the salvage perk. That will at least help claim salvage and maybe earn a finders fee.

As far as the role goes, that's why I want to focus on them as a mobile, tough, pathfinder type platoon. Guys that can go in and blow up a building or seed a mine field. This is my rough outline.

2nd Kavaller ~ 325th Infantry Company ~ 2nd Platoon
Nickname: The Warbirds
Platoon Commander- LT Anton Shrike
            Perks- Toughness, Hazard, Leadership, Edge
Veteran Squad 1(Line)- Jump Troopers, Armory
Veteran Squad 2(Line)- Jump Troopers, Engineers, MG
Regular Squad 3(Line)- Scouts, Rifle
Regular Squad 4(Support)- TAG , SRM
This message was last edited by the player at 18:11, Sun 06 Mar 2016.

That's removed...

no astech, no salvage, youre a combat infantry unit.  (i thought i took those perks off already)

The rules need to be looked over and edited, but on a mixed unit focus i dont want them used for astech work or salvage, they'll be busy with infantry stuff.

---

It should be noted that the commanders perks are used for option slots, of which you have 3 plus edge, you still write out a full character sheet for yourself, you just lack a unit to work from, you do get to pick where you are in the field, either one of your squads to personally lead (adding an eighth man to the squad), or in the somewhat reletive safety of one of your light conventional units that will get assigned to you as needed for missions.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:44, Sun 06 Mar 2016.

Made some adjustments to the load out. I'm looking into more ammo and armor for stockpile

Will ask here, so its public and as others are doing cavalry it should help to.

Cavalry Archetypes

Options     ~ (3) + Edge
Starting XP ~ 350 xp / {800xp max.}
Starting CP ~ 320,000 cb ~ (Used to purchase Characters Starting Conventional)(Cavalry ranks cost 10k cb)
(0) Availability Rolls

Limitation ~Well rounded and require Accuracy and Physical, min rating of (2) and a mental rating of (1).  Limited x-training allowed.

Allowed X-train
~ X-train in Aero, Allow Conventional Ground characters the option to use VTOLs.
~ X-train in Conventional, Allow VTOL pilots the option to use Conventional ground units.

Is the (0) Availability rolls correct, and is the CB spend for starting conventional correct?
I'm assuming the CB spend portion isn't correct, given 30-33 ton tanks cost more than 320k cb, and Air Cavalry VTOL types are already specified.

Also i'm assuming we're late 3040's, is tech like Stream SRM2's (Re-invented in the 30's), ER Large Lasers (3037) now available as "standard equipment" without need for availability rolls? I know this was asked earlier a bit, but it seemed to be talking about Endo/Fib and more late stage/beta level tech.

1) I consider the starting availability roll for cavalry to be fair, i am letting them pick out their lancemates, which would normally be an availability roll each.  For Air Cavalry it's a less fair in that you only have a wingman, so i will grant Air Cavalry Archetypes (2) Availability rolls.

2)Starting CB is incorrect.  I'm going to reduce it to 160k cb.  This should be sufficient to cover rank bumps (which for cavalry is only 10k cb), and leave them enough CB lying about for modest weapon twinks.  This works because i'm assigning them a limited choice of conventionals to just 'pick'.  At this stage, price is not an issue, and may never be.  We're no longer a merc unit, so availability of equipment and how you go about gathering parts may be less nickel and dime counting and might simply be related to something simplier.  This is definitely going to be the case for conventional units.  I'm not sure if it'll be so with mechs.

I'm looking at options to reduce the overhead bookkeeping, while keeping the flavor and challenge of previous campaigns.  I'm taking this new campaign reset opportunity to really look at things from the ground up, which is why assumptions of what was allowed in previous campaigns (like engine modifications) should not be presumed a part of this campaign.  I really do try not to make the same mistakes twice.

3)  I presume that streams, is a typo and should be Streak.  While Stream SRMs actually sound sort of cool, i've never heard of them before.  As for the rest  A little of both.  Advance stuff will cost you an availability roll, but for start up i'll presume you instantly make your roll.  Real Ferro Armor and Endo Steel is in use now, not that bastardized beta crap.  Players may start and refit as much standard armor as they want with Ferro Fib, at the cost of 1 availability roll for 5 tons of Ferro Fib.  Two availability rolls should cover most units.  They may also use 1 availability roll for 1/2 ton of Endo Steel.  Two availability rolls will endo a but, three will cover a valk.

For those of you going the C3 Route,  I'm going to charge you (2) Availability rolls for the concept, one for the slave, and one for the master.  Dirt cheap when you consider the availability of the stuff by the old rules.

Anything else you ask, and i'll tell you.  Stuff that are not in use... off the top of my head... power loaders are gone, plug suits, are gone.  If they appear it'll be in game.

I am thinking that i will allow players to spend two availability roll at start up to allow a rank buy up, for 100k cb.  Something ive never allowed before, but seems reasonable to allow some diversity of rank among characters.

Feed back from players seem to be towards an agreement that a simpified bookkeeping system might be good, i'm inclined to agree.

Instead of tracking the nuts and bolts of cost, i might just accumulate the concept of using availability rolls as a form of currency.  Accumulate a few every mission.  Roll to see if what you want is available and if so it's yours, if not.  SOL.

working this concept around in my head at the moment, i have to admit as a game master simplier bookkeeping would be a godsend.

So we're looking more like a reserve military unit with little in the way of enhancements to be fielded compared to other 3050ish front line units that have the common advanced tech that the Five Great Houses have funding for.

We're the poor mans unit.

More like the RR is a poor man 'House', it doesnt have the economic background the other houses does.  Fewer planets, shorter history, and what resources they have is spent on a violent wars for freedom, and independence between the fourth Succession Wars and Ronin wars, really, think about it, they are probably more concerned with fielding any sort of military unit that the newest and greatest.

It's a military unit, not a merc unit.  Instead of counting the bottom line, knowing who to go to and what favors to spend to get what you want are more important than the bottom line paycheck.

---

This isnt just good for me, it's good for players too.

I'm sure we've lost good players that just didnt want to deal with the intense details of the campaign.  it's more time on the battlefield for fun, and maybe roleplaying and less nuts and bolts accounting.  I can realy appreciate that, so i'm looking into the novel concept.  Less focus on money and cb tweaking, and more on missions and playing for fun.

The more i think about this, the more i'm convinced this is the way to go.  I can, and so can many of you, keep up with the bookkeeping, but really, is it necessary?
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:32, Sun 06 Mar 2016.

I'm all for a simpler system. It works for tons of different systems just fine and makes players even more apt to get into the role play. Maybe as a reward for objectives or instead of salvage? Instead of mission bonuses, each mission has a 'reward' bounty of availability rolls. Bonus objectives get bonus rolls that go into a pool for the unit. Salvage could work the same concept?

Yep Streak SRMs not stream, though stream SRMs do sound cool agreed.

That all seems fair to me. I also am on board with a simpler system, I was thinking it earlier before all the other posts popped up. Reality wise we're a official unit, it's much more likely to be general budget per lance or air wing, perhaps with some bonuses and such thrown in.

Moving to just straight up rolls as currency for advanced tech (Or reknown/etc), and most basic equipment freely available doesn't seem like a terrible idea.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:12, Sun 06 Mar 2016.

I'm thinking there will be two sets of availability rolls, one for players, and one for the 'unit'.  Players roll for stuff they need, while the unit rolls for on mission assets, like extra support fire, or assistance from units outside of the company's listed units.

I will accept the use of CB's for mech generation, mostly as a point of character balance, look at the cash left over, and probably assign a value to what's left, maybe... something along the lines of a cash ~> availability/favor conversion.

Tracking abstract favors seems much better than availability rolls.

I don't mind simpler at all either.  I'm just trying to wiggle around and get the right feel for the...ambiance...of the campaign as you see it Kitten.  That makes it easier for me to do things that don't raise your hackles or give me the Kitten stare of death and want to kill my PC...something you are quite apt at doing ;)

It's a new campaign.

Tradition demands that we sacrifice your first character to me to ensure a long and happy campaign.  We cant flaunt tradition can we?

---

With this availability roll thing in place, things get so much easier.

I really just have to track xp, which should be a breeze.

And really...

We sacrificed my first character in Stallions and it went 9,000 posts.

We sacrificed my first character in Mercs and it went 26,000 posts

So almost 3 times the previous one.  If we sacrifice one here that should me pushing 100,000 posts for this one :P

This also means the C3 concept is both great cause the others get free cash from my character when he dies and they still have the network and not cause I will have to build another one taking a C3 slave to get back into it...for the second time. *frowns*

Maybe I just need to be selfish and go for the 3050 gold :P

You're at something of a disadvantage in getting your first character wasted Luc, no Urbanmechs available for starting out in this campaign.

Right...

So I did a little number crunching as well as cost crunching.  We might be part of a C3 network if we go that route but we will have so few weapons on our 20-25 ton mechs that it won't allow the C3 to shine.  The three PC mechs will put out the firepower of one and a half well armed mechs at best.

Unless I'm missing something...

Which is possible.  Startup is the best time to get something like it because of the high cost but I don't think it's good here with the available mechs, funds and limited modifications.

---

Posh all of the available mechs are good ones for getting blown up in.  Remember it's really just light mechs and Clan weapons do more damage...7 for Medium Lasers, 15 for ER PPC, 12 damage for Streak6's, 10 damage for ER Large...the list goes on...

There is more than enough to kill me good.

Clans arent here yet, were in the last stages of the ronin war.

Okay to make it definitive, cause i'm the central game master, and a decision needs to be made.

i'm going to put a C3 lance into the campaign, and a master C3 is going to be the fourth unit, it's going to be in a light mech, but it'll be a light mech.  God forbid it blows up, your replacement will (eventually) be a Pegasus.

Buy in for this lance is going to be 750k cb, same cost as the Pegasus concept.

Concept lance is as is, no more discussion.  If no one buys into the concept lance that's fine i know it's losing concept and we take it out and put a normal one in along the way.

4th mech on the C3 lance is going to be an NPC Raven, moves 5/8/5 and has two LRM5s to help with indirect firing hawkeyes, you get this thing blown up and your next master will be a peg.

I believe, i shall be making a Infantry commander, so along with Anto, that takes up both infantry slots.

We are actually looking pretty good.

infantry ~ full

cavalry ~ room for 1

air cavalry ~ room for 2

mechs ~ room for 8

I am... god help me, going to put a post up for players and see what we net in.

We have enough discussion here that i'm okay with starting on new players.

they may take a while to acclimate to the game anyway.

Just added a new player from the want Ad I put up.

Welcome Argile Silva.

He has a preference for a Techie Mechwarrior, so he sound like a perfect fit for a Techwarrior Archetype, the question is...

Does he like C3 as a concept and how much he's willing to pay to use it if he does.

Just added a second player, please welcome Illiyana.

She wants to play a light mech... you know... like a Jenner.

Not light in the scope of the campaign, but definitely good taste as far as rides go.

Keep in mind that this is a Light Mech company, and i have a cap of 350 tons for the weight of the company.  That's an average of about 30 tons or so.

Welcome to the team Argile and Illiyana.  Good to have you on board.

New players are suggested to browse...


http://wiki.rpol.net/?id=56363


Of immediate intersts should be the Kittenwarrior link.


It should be noted, that for this campaign, All Archetypes start with 200k cb less that what's listed on this link.

Comstar bills will be used to determine the mechs you start with, modifications, and any promotions you want for your character.  After that we'll be moving to using 'favors' as a form of currency for rewards in the campaign.

---

With two new players...

infantry ~ full

cavalry ~ room for 1

air cavalry ~ room for 2

mechs ~ room for 6
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:56, Mon 07 Mar 2016.

Just added Katrin, who wants to be in the Air Cavalry company, so that's another VTOL player.

Katrin, the other VTOL players is Akarian, who may be late to start in he campaign because of the demand of the flesh and blood world.

---

As predicted slots filling up fast.. slots left are now.

infantry ~ full

cavalry ~ room for 1

air cavalry ~ room for 1

mechs ~ room for 6

Next question, what's the actual price of Ferro Fibrouos and I suspect Endo Steel as well? Original beta was 20k per ton of Fib, than true was marked as 50k per ton. With 160k starting CB for cavalry, I don't think any of us are buying the 4+ tons of Fib at 50k/ton. (If it's just there as a possible long term goal, that's fine too.)

Oh and in aim of simpler creation/book keeping, can we skip install/remove costs? Seems facilities would exist.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:39, Mon 07 Mar 2016.

I think we're going to stick with those prices.

Ferro at 20k and Endo at 50k, you'll just be buying real stuff instead of the betas i made.  Im will to sell them off to players at half or even quarter ton intervals, so you dont have to buy the whole thing for mods.

ie.  a Commando only needs 1.25 tons of Endo steel, you can buy 1.25 tons and pay 62.5k for your endo steel.  those of you from the old campaign will know this is dirt cheap.

I do think i mentioned that Endo is reserved for mechs though, and that VTOLs could only upgrade their armor to Ferro, and swap out the AC/6 and ammo for something different.

(missiles, lasers, bombs, whatever.)

---

As for the modification surcharge, it will linger around for character generation, but only character generation, I still need to balance mechs between players, and the old method was really good at that.  Excess cash gets converted, at a diminishing level of return, to favors.  So if possible you want to use as much cash up as possible, but if you have some left, you're not totally gipped.

Later on it'll just cost a favor.  Spend a favor to find some one to trade old stuff for new stuff and do the installation work involved is how i think it's going to be done..
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:52, Mon 07 Mar 2016.

Just to localize the questions and discussions, i'm going to make unit threads along the lines of one for mech, cavalry, air cavalry and infantry so players and discuss and share concepts and plans on how to work together.

okay, made unit specific threads for everyone to kick thoughts around in.

you can look at the cast, to see who's in your group to know who else is doing the stuff you do.

The exception is Lucius.  He knows at least as much about how the old game works as i, and stays on top of a lot of the new changes i make.  So if i'm not around to ask, he's the next best thing to getting a ruling on stuff.

I'm off to bed now peeps.

Always happy to help.

As the sacrificial lamb it's part of my indentured servitude to the Kitten Overlord ;)

Welcome Argile, Illiyana, and Katrin.

Thanks for the Air Cavalry Q/A feedback Luc, I got called to bed before finishing everything on that, but its a start anyways.

Me too otherwise I would have responded last night instead of this morning.

I've got opinions on the other ones but I figured I'd stick to what I know versus conjecture. :)

Hello and welcome to all our newcomers!

Just so new players know, I'm going to let Lucius handle most of the mechwarrior orientation stuff.  He's a three campaign veteran with me, and has a pretty good handle on how things should work.

The reason for this, is because the conventional concept of the campaign is mostly new and theoretical and requires much attention from me to set up.

Will be updating rules and stuff across the board and trying to get us up and running as soon as possible.  At the moment i have a lot of theory on what peeps want to do, and not much hard paper work .

Feel free to ask me here, in the mechwarrior specific thread or even PM if you want to keep quiet till you're good to go.  I'll lend a hand when I have a free moment which this and next week should be fairly frequently as things are coming to the end of the legislative session so it's merely a matter of if anything gets passed or not and then the breathing a moment before digging into what changes there are...then my question answering frequency will drop a little :)

Quick comment on character building.  Its a house brew system, so i designed it so i have more than an inkling on how it was meant to be used.  The short answer is, there is no 'best' way.  It was designed to be fair, which is why a point buying system is used.  It was designed to be simple, which is why there are only three abilities, and you are limited to at handful of options slots to define your character.

It actually started out, much simplier.  It's current form is developed from the evolution of three campaigns.

You can think of ability scores as raw talent.  Natural reflexes that a character was born with... or mental brillance to apply to a variety of task.

Options can be thought of as a focus of attention to learn a task.  You may not have the raw natural reflexes, but you make up for it with raw talent in a field that appeals to your character.  They have a knack for working the numbers to get missiles to lock and fire, they have a talent to lead or for tactics... whatever.

Specialties are the reflection of special talents that the character has developed in their choosen fields.  Evidence of their exceptional ability in their ability to do things that raw talent (ability) will never be able to do.  The possibility to hit farther with a weapon, to lead larger units... or organize and maintain better units... whatever.

So while the numbers may look the same in the end, how you got there will be different.

ie.
A character might have a natural gunnery of 4 by spending 200 xp on Accuracy.

or

They might have a natural gunnery of 6, but with missiles, they're a gunnery of 4.  Not as overall good as a base gunnery of 4, but it only cost 125xp, and for the savings of 75xp to be spent elsewhere, piloting a missile boat like a Commando, where only one medium laser suffers... the savings are worth while.

I will post 'stuff' on this campaign as i get to it, but if new players want to browse the old campaign threads, they can be found here...

link to another game

Going to change from a Infantry commander to the last Cavalry slot.

just making it an official public announcement that the cavalry company is full now.

Just a heads up for everyone...

With me shifting character roles my name is going to change to Einar Alfhildr.  I'll be the guy in charge of the Mech complement.  We needed a leader type so I'll get to do it.  If I had the cash to do the C3 as well I would have but there just isn't enough fundage for me to fill that many roles.

Going to work out a unit commander thread.

I've been mostly trying to appoint players from old campaigns, since they know what's to be expected and will make things move about easier.  (I'm all about moving things about easier)

Newer players should not take this as a slight, everyone is new at least once to me, and i'm hoping that will change quickly in the near future to where you'll be old veterans welcoming new players to the campaign.

Command thread is pretty much where mission task are presented and players decide who goes to do what.

New campaign, so I'm still working out how things will work.

---

Tentative command positions...

Mech Company.

Kapten    ~ (R4) Einar Alfildr
Löjtnant  ~ (R?) (tba)
Löjtnant  ~ (R?) (tba)

Conventional Support
Cavalry Company
Kapten    ~ (R3) Svetlana Gunnardottir

Air Cavalry Company
?         ~ (R?) Akarian

Infantry Company
?         ~ (R?) Anton Shrike
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:52, Tue 08 Mar 2016.

Call this Karma, no sooner has the Infantry position been vacated, and a new players has shown to take over her slot.

Really... i'm surprised by the interest in playing conventional units in this campaign.

o.O

Please welcome James Stirling our new Infantry player
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:45, Tue 08 Mar 2016.

Remember Kitten as much as you have made this about Battletech and the mechs you also have a knack for taking what could be normal foot slogging infantry and transforming them into missions that look more like Spec Ops raids on their own supporting the main force in a different fashion.

Besides when it eventually rolls around to Clans the mechs won't waste their time shooting at infantry unless they are crawling on them.  That's for the Elementals to deal with.

It's almost... ALMOST... incentive to bring back Kitty Troopers, but im looking at the bookkeeping on that and it's not going to happen till things get oiled and moving along by themselves for the main campaign.

yes.  Infantry will have a role.  Aside from their platoon of infantry, they'll also have access to lighter 5 ton conventionals like AMCs, APCs and Ferrets, which while light... can still contribute to combat.

Game plan is to get a few character finalized everytday, Done Today...

(7) Characters ~ Finalized
Einar
Illiyana

Olaf

Rymin

Svetlana
Teri
Mikael


(0) Characters ~ To Do



(6) Characters ~ Waiting for Player Paperwork
Anton ~ Infantry
Argile ~ Mech ?
David ~ C3
Galen ~ Command Wolfhound
James ~ Infantry
Katrin ~ VTOL

---

At this rate, will be ready for start of mission by weekend... maybe (crosses fingers)
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:42, Wed 09 Mar 2016.

Curious. I am wondering in this time of mech war machines, what role the tanks will mainly play?. I can see point refusal and infantry support for assault's against fortified buildings or towns, but in honesty i have trouble seeing them used against the same mechs in a open meeting

Updated after review. Thoughts? I want to go more to the tough/spec ops route for 2nd Platoon. Someone the glory boys in the walkers can call when they need help. Very mobile and versatile force.

2nd Kavaller ~ 325th Infantry Company ~ 2nd Platoon
Unit Nickname: The Warbirds
Platoon Commander- Anton Shrike (Rank 4 = 4,000)
     200xp  Abilities- 50xp Accuracy(2) 6+
                       50xp Physical(2) 6+
                       100xp  Mental(3) 5+

     150xp      Perks- 25xp Toughness
                       25xp X-Train Aero
                       75xp Leadership(2)
                       25xp Edge(1)

Platoon Reserves: 6,125cb, (1) ton of Bombard, and (1) ton of Hawkeye LRM
Veteran Squad 1(Line)- Engineers, Armory
      Experience- 8,750cb
Veteran Squad 2(Line)- TAG, Laser Spotter, MG
      Experience- 8,750cb
Regular Squad 3(Line)- Scouts, Rifle
      Experience- 4,375cb
Green Squad 4(Support)- Flamer

You've played my campaign enough to know that conventional units dont suck.  Especially enmasse they can be rather formidable.  If you cant see their place in the scope of the campaign, youre free to change into a mech slot, plenty of room in the mech company.

Numbers look fine to me, but i would look harder at the bottomline of upgrading the units.   Right now you buy, you get, later on your buy, you have to roll for availability.  Veteran troops are fine, but if you aspire to having elites anytime soon, now is the time to buy them.

Out for Doc appointment will be back later this afternoon to reply to people if they have/had asked questions.

While this campaign may be somewhat different the question about using conventional units (ie non mechs) in the battletech setting is also valid in the general sense.

Tanks tend to be considerably cheaper than mechs ton for ton and technically use the same weapons and armor so they actually tend to have more firepower per Cbil cost than mechs and be tougher in a stand up fight.  Movement tends to be the downfall of tanks as they are slow, and suffer significantly from any type of complicated terrain but for open fields, cities, roads, and even light forests they should be at least competent.

Infantry vs Mechs is always a hard sell, but sometimes you have 200,000 people per mech in a city so tossing anti mech training into the mix such that 200 people working together in a coordinated manner with some rather inexpensive gear can ruin one or more mechs starts to feel like a viable option.  The math is still bad in terms of lives lost but if it's what you have then it's what you use.

Used together as a combined arms unit with Tanks to hold the line, Infantry to scout and disrupt, and Mechs to do the fancy footwork and rapid assaults the whole thing tends to work out a lot better than simply tossing a dozen mechs down on a planet and expecting them to always win.

Another draw back for tanks, is that they take motive damage, and can be taken out of the fight while still having plenty of armor.


Infantry's role is heavily specialized.  Yes the mech warrior might think he can scoff at that squad of seven infantry till they whip out the laser TAG and spots them for the incoming artillary fire.  The fact that they're overlooked lets them pass more often unmolested to get to a target and maybe take it out, where the mission might be a static location like a command post.  Infantry's role was already outlined in the infantry thread to help them out.

Reminder, if youre done with your character sheet and ready for me to audit it, post it on this link.

link to a message in this game


Till i see it here, i presume youre in the think think, talk talk, twink, twink phase.

Except for Olaf I've updated the units submitted and have been adding them to the first mission which should start soon.

Units that arent submitted by the weekend are presumed to be in for 'extensive' repairs and will start Mission Two.  (Around a one month wait historically)

Campaign rule change thought...

You know.  It's been on the rules this way for so long... it's almost engraved in stone, but Veteran players know that i'm infamous for twinking rules.


So... I was sitting here looking at Katrin's  archetype build, and she had a Fourth Option slot picked out, which ... is wrong because Archetypes only have three, plus Edge.


So... I was thinking, why does it have to be this way?

Certainly we cant let you have piles and piles of options, because, that would be just all sorts of broken.

So i was thinking, what if... instead of limiting how many options you can have, we limit how many option points you can spend.


So here's the proposed thought.

Instead of being limited to Edge and (3) Option slots {for most archetypes}

what if we went... Edge and Option points (Option Points = Option slots x2, which is the maximum number of option points the archetype can spend.)

So a seasoned mechwarrior could get up to a 2 in edge, and 6 points of other options.  He can spend up to level two in an option or buy several up only to level 1.

XP cost does not change, and all current builds are legal, but if you only wanted one level in something, you could opt to get another level in something else too.

At first glance, i dont see this as broken.  Anyone else have thoughts on this?

This is a notable campaign rule so i want player thoughts on this, particular the veteran ones who have been messing with this fora while now.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:15, Thu 10 Mar 2016.

So I could be a wunderkid with...

Energy 1 (2 slots)
Ballistics 1 (1 slot)
Missile 1 (1 slot)
X/Y/Z Mech Spec 1 (1 slot)
Physical Combat 1 (1 slot)

And have d7 with all weapons and give me access to extreme ranges for all of them, piloting the mech size I'm in and a bonus to putting my fist in your face or foot on your throat.  For the low, low cost of...

150xp

And then tossing 100xp into Gunnery and Physical to round out my peep with 5+ base numbers except for Mental issues using any of the 350xp base archetypes.

---

And would this change Lyran Mentality to only having 2 points to play with?

Or the Bug Warrior changing to have access to 8 points to play with?

Or the xp limits...though that's more nebulous since it'll take somewhere around 25 missions before we start getting closer to your limits at current design...

You could.

Youre spending 100xp to increase all the weapon skills to d7, which is around a +1 imho.

You could also spend 75 xp to specialize in three different specs, but only one would ever apply a higher physical would work better imho.

If you over diversify like that you get nothing.

We could compromise it, maybe cap the points spend and increase the slots by one.

So you would have a max of six points to spend over 4 slots, you could develop half to 2 and half to 1, or 3 to 2.

No, I know there are jacks of all trades out there that having that diversity would be great.

A noble, leadership, tactics at 1 each would cover a solid backing of potential command skill while still allowing a dip into energy or speccing twice over in ballistics or missiles.  It'll be a rare concept that takes six at one.  Four at one and one at two, or two at one and two at two will be far more frequently used I would imagine.

I'm just talking out loud to see what bounces and what sticks.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:26, Thu 10 Mar 2016.

Yeah it would be interesting to say the least.

I actually like this thought, but i'm not ready to take it out for a ride yet, i'm going to mix it in with the wiki, and after mission 3 when we have our 'break' for upkeep phase, I usually allow new players a mulligan, so i think that will be a good time to think it over more and shake it down.

besides, i have over half the unit finalized and ready to go, i dont want to muck that up and start at square one over this.

So... it's something to look at in the future, but wont be in use just now.

(*shakes mail box*)

No new submissions...

I have unofficial paperwork in from Kat, Anton and Galen.  will focus on getting those characters finalized today, hope more peeps get me their characters?
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:46, Thu 10 Mar 2016.

I put mine in player submissions.

Consider mine submitted. On phone now, if new rules are approved only change is tinker 0 for last option.

character updates delayed today due to issues in the flesh and blood world, will try and get to them tonight but no promises.

It's all gravy

Trying to wrap up Galen and Anton today, last to wrap will be Argile, and David.

Missions are expected to start Sunday evening/Monday morning.

If they dont have characters in, they will be 'late' reinforcements for the Republic.  (one turn delayed)

Family obligations to deal with today.

If it goes long, the maps going up will be delayed a day, apologies.

It's all good Kitten. You're already ahead of where you told us you would be in the campaign.  Originally you said it might take a month or more to build this up and it's done in half that time. Are you using the Montgomery Scott method for estimating time to complete a project?

The decision to just reduce bookkeeping was key on the new motivation.

The other half is the inclusion of the new players.  It's not right to bring new players on board just to sit and wait, so i thought it best to get us moving at least slowly.

The theory is to just have a trilogy of mission to shake out the new players with pretty simple and straight forward missions against the Combine.

A 'brief' upkeep, maaaaybe recruit more players... then i'll figure out if we want a few more missions against the Combine or if i'm ready for the step towards the Clans which you guys have been waiting... what... years... many more years if you count Mac's games for the really old players among us.

Anyway, that's the thumbnail plan at the moment.

*chuckles*

Yeah finally seeing the Clans for those few old players will be impressive to say the least.  It was back in 09 or abouts that I got into Mac's game if I remember correctly.

An aside...

As Kitten mentioned Avatars are the images we use for placeholders in the maps.  I know personally I've been having issues with seeing the male portraits so if I can't see the image to download I'll find an image of your mech and add your callsign or some form of your name on it.

Kit or Tau: can either of you point me in the right direction for campaign rules for Hawkeye LRM?

The short and dirty version of the rules is in the wiki under the missiles tab...
http://wiki.rpol.net/?id=56363/Missile

Yeah that really is the short and dirty indeed. Note that they still have range limits like normal LRMs and such.

Are the convoy vehicles posted to the map yet?  If they are, I can't see them.

 Dont think the infantry has set up yet.

Correct.  They still have the 21 hex range from the point of firing as I don't see them being able to take advantage of Missile Spec allowing extreme ranges like a more direct fire would from a mech.

In reply to Tau (msg # 143):

Thanks!

Correct, the missiles are fire and forget, so dice are never rolled.

So even if the gunner had missile spec, it would be no help to improve the missiles range.

There is a hard range limit on (non-infantry) Hawkeyes of 21 hexes.

The 'convoy' is a decoy, and is actually your infantry units AMCs disguised as transport.

Your infantry support will place them on the map, and you would know their locations better than me, since that information is is probably discussed there.

You also have two cavalry lances, one of them will deploy in the open with them to pose as the convoy's escort.  You get to pick which of the two lances you want to deploy, but if it were me... i'd suggest the more survivable of the two lances, which would be your patton's Teri.

I'll be chatting with my peeps when I get home from work today to help get things moving on my side when I don't have to use my phone.

I think I've got it but just want to make sure I've got it right before mission starts up :)

Full auto questions:
(1) Anyone using a C3 slave can serve as the TAG as long as aren't limited by Tech Skill Penalties?

(2) Base TN for a TAG role is 5+?

(3) Roll during initiative and the shooter needs to keep LOS on the target through the move phase?

(4) Since no movement has occurred yet are there move & def mods to TN?

(5) Range mods S:1-5 / M: 6-9 / L: 10-15?
This message was last edited by the player at 16:38, Mon 14 Mar 2016.

(1)  Yes

(2)  No.  the Hawkeyes TN is 5+, the TAG is counted as an energy weapon and fired like any other energy weapon.  Real TAG has a range of 5/10/15, the Hawkeye tags are pretty much the same thing but with a range of 3/6/9.  The only difference between the two TAGs are weight.  I will presume the C3 slave functions as 'TAG', with the greater range.

(3)  No.  The Hawkeye gunner just needs to announce that they're being fired.  They go up an in the air.  Where the gunner is during initiative is where the Hawkeyes are fired from for range to target purposes.  This allows the opponent the opportunity to recognize the danger of the Hawkeyes, and if so inclined, with a fast enough mech 'dive for cover' to avoid the hawkeyes.

(4)  The only def modifier is any protective terrain the target is in.  So if they're in Light Woods, it would add +1 def modifier.  Heavy woods would grant +2 def modifier.

(5)  As noted in (2), yes.  For TAG and your C3 slave that would be the range.  Infantry and Hawkeye TAG is the 'short' ranged version.


Footnote:
It should be noted that the Hawkeyes are split between legal targets.  So if 20 of them are fired during initiative, and two legal targets are painted with TAG, the damage is split between the targets and 10 missiles pursue each target.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:41, Mon 14 Mar 2016.

Beat me to it so I deleted my mirroring post.

TAG is also useful for artillery support, like common copperheads, and the more expensive Arrow IV.


(Copperheads, are artillery fired support that are generalized over the battlefield, and rely on TAG to hone in the munitions to the target.

Thumper Copperheads do 5 damage and are the most common used.)

I just realized you are talking about using the C3 Slave unit as a TAG, is this an intentional adjustment to the normal rules that include the TAG function only with the C3 Master unit?

Yes.

Here both the Master and Slave units have TAG functions.

(gives Illiyana a cookie = Favor)


I think i've only ever played a game with C3 once, which is no small amount of time, so i admit i'm not familiar with it.

She's right, only the C3 master has TAG capability.

I'm willing to extend the shorter ranged TAG light, that goes out to 3/6/9 for the slave units though.

I stand corrected, see?  I'm not always right.

*grins*

I figured it was just another one of your small modifications.  It made sense in the vein of it is a targeting computer that sends data...exactly what TAG does but is a whole lot more expensive to network with the Master for all those aspects.

Hello all. Those that were in the previous game...sorry for having to leave abruptly and leave you without my sweet LAM. But IRL seems stable once again so I'm trying out the straight flyboy route this time.

no just a detail oversight on my part.  For some reason i thought it worked with all the units, not just the master.  My bad.

That said, i dont see why a slave cant make use of the master's ability to use TAG and have SOME function of TAG, so i figure the lighter version that goes out 3/6/9 doesnt seem too unfair... or maybe even 2/4/6?  longer than a small laser, but shorter than a medium?

what do you think Illiyana?  Your rule catch, and you dont have C3 at all so i'm curious on your thought since you're theoretically unbiased.

Just remember what you guys get, the bad guys sometimes get too.

wb Harley.

We didnt have that many LAM pilots so i do remember you.  nice to have you among us again.

Good to have you again Harley.

^_^ I love all versions of the Pheonix Hawk. LAMs are just icing on that cake. BUT this time I wanna step outta the comfort zone and put some bombs on targets. ^_^

Air Cavalry rules are in place to support that.

I've gone over them in fair detail with Rymin, so he'll be your guide on this, since i still have to get the missions going, and the infantry issues written up.

(at the moment i'm trying to get David the last mechwarrior that's expected to participate added.)

Argile, and Harley are just too far behind to add with their characters.

I can give you an unmodified VTOL warrior to pilot in one of the missions if you want to participate Harley, but it's too close to the eleventh hour to wait for a proper character submission, you good with that?

Let's see if I've got it right. Resolving Hawkeye/TAG attack would go like this:

Initiative Phase:
- Initiative resolved as normal
- Hawkeye attack declared (no roll)
- Hawkeye range determined by position from where they were fired (before attacker moves)

Move Phase:
- Moves resolved as normal

Fire Phase:
- TAG fired as per normal energy weapon (move, def mod, terrain and range mods apply)
- TAG hit allows Hawkeye roll to hit (caveat: target must be in range for LRM from where Hawkeye was initially fired)
- Hawkeye roll TN 5+ (roll for each target successfully TAG'd, only terrain mods apply)
- No roll for # missile hits is required
- If multiple targets are hit, missiles are split evenly between them
- Resolve missile damage as normal

Heat:
- No heat for TAG
- Hawkeye heat as per LRM

Questions :
- If Hawkeyes fire but no valid targets are TAG'd are they gone or available next round?

The C3 system is indeed a communication system intended to share targeting data, but it is specifically focused on it's own network.  The C3 Master system has the ability to function as a TAG in part because it can also broadcast outside it's own Slave network (typically up to a company level master system) and somewhere in it's 5 tons of space including the parts needed to do the 1 ton tag's job should not be to tricky even with the generally low quality of computer hardware after the succession wars.

The C3 slave could be used like a TAG but I  would limit it's range significantly the 2/4/6 seems about right, and restrict it such that only other units in it's own C3 network can benefit from the data.  This gives it a free function, and one that is not particularly limiting given the typical use of C3 networks for close in work, and stays within the bounds of the intended theme of the network.

Olaf, that all sounds correct, though I believe you still roll for number of missiles hitting.

And if no tag, they are lost. (don't continue to fly around for use later)

However you want to play it I'm down with it. I'm very patient. ^_^

Okay, going with Illiyana's thoughts, since they're close to mine and will limit the slave's C3 TAG functions to 2/4/6.  Its better than nothing, and really gravy on the normal c3 functions.

You have most of it Olaf, except the Hawkeyes resolve after all weapon fire.

This is because you need to know how many TAGs hit to divide their targeting.

Rymin is correct you do roll for number of missiles.

So... in the example above if 20 missiles hit one target you roll on the 20 missile table once, if two targets are hit by 10 missiles each, you roll on the 10 missile table twice.

If it's three targets, and one is hit by 8, and the other two are hit by 7, you roll on the 4 missile table twice for one target and the 5 missile and 2 missile table for the other.  After you know how many missiles hit, you do damage in five point groups.

so if you got 3 missiles on one table and 1 missile on another table, that's 4 missiles hit in one location.

Sounds complicated by in use not so bad, if you arent sure leave it to me and i'll resolve the hawkeyes.

I always essentially saw the five ton Master was in truth four slaves working together and a TAG unit.  Three of them communicate with the lance it's with, one is reserved to another Master unit.

That said limiting the TAG to internally, regardless of range, is rather useless for Arrow IV and considering the only other use is for Hawkeyes that an LRM launcher would already receive targeting data natively makes it redundant unless the person with Hawkeyes is a horrible gunner.  C3 networks being limited to the map board would mean off board support couldn't be used either, nor tying into infantry or conventional units that are being used here.

It's even worse of a function than Kittens desire to never see a flamer in game again ;)

no.  I presume somewhere in that ton of wires is a radio to reach other units, or to reach the master to relay info.  It'll work like a normal TAG, just limited to range 2/4/6

I do like simple... whenever possible.


As a footnote...

Hawkeyes are effective and work best when focused enmasse.

So it's a fair ploy to stop using Hawkeyes once you paint a desireable target so that all the missiles will target the one patsy.

We've seen light mechs vanish under the weight of a single flight of Hawkeyes because it was the only target painted.

Split 60 hawkeyes four ways and four targets take around 8 damage or so.  Have them all fall on one target, and that target takes around 36 damage or so.  The magnitude of hurt is obvious.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:56, Mon 14 Mar 2016.

 Hmm again, The C3 master is just linked to the Mechs right?, my lrm carrier wont have that benefit?. Just checking to be sure.

Correct, your LRM carrier has no interaction with the C3, except with the possible function of throwing Hawkeyes up in the air for them to exploit the targets that are painted.

On the subject of simplification the current rules set includes a missile hit table that now comprehensively covers all possible number of missiles from any type of launcher and or after being reduced in any way by an Anti Missile System.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TUyM...s/s1600/NewTable.png

The only time you should be rolling twice is if you hit with more than 20 missiles on a single attack/target with an MRM 30+ or entirely to many hawkeye missiles.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:09, Mon 14 Mar 2016.

Close to starting but talkative players and a school meeting i have to attend is going to kill my free time.

I may have to delay mission start.

My mission needs the Infantry stuff added in.

Tau's mission needs a map, and objectives added in.

Will add commander options tomorrow too.

Is that an official table or fan based one?

The specific digital picture in the link I provided is I think a fan reproduction rather than a scanned image out of the current books.

The data on the chart is far less accurate than I would have expected, and looking at the chart in the book again it seems that even MRM 40s wont need to reroll as the chart goes all the way up, I would recommend getting the new chart if you want one from an official source as they do seem to be different.

No worries.

I may just clump them in groups of 5, which would solve the issue, so it might be a 10, 5, 5 hit to make the rolls easy.

I thought the TAG capable C3 slave was a Kitten added rule tweak as well.  Here are my thoughts before we collectively climb out of the rabbit hole...

Playing it at a shorter range is fair, but limiting it to less capability than the 'light' system carried by an individual infantry soldier isn't intuitive.  Nor is adding a third range-set for TAG lasers.  To keep the tweaks consistent, why not make the light system and the C3 slave ranges the same (either 3/6/9 or 2/4/6)?

I was thinking that too, hence being on the fence between 3/6/9 and 2/4/8.

My justification is that it doesnt have 'TAG', as in a laser to point and spot, and by some magic of the C3 network, if they're close enough to the target, they can gather enough information on the target to feign TAG to get hawkeyes and copper heads to drop on it.  There is something to be said for making it 'light TAG', but it's also something to be said to go with as written rules, and give slaves nothing more than make them part of the network.

Personally, I'd make them just C3 no tag function on the slaves. It's suppose to be combined arms focused, tagging VTOLs/infantry would make a lot of sense, and moves to making units more dependent on each other.

Plus you already have a light tag option if you really want it on mechs to for not much weight, a whole 8af trade off.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:47, Tue 15 Mar 2016.

I actually had a novel concept to solve the TAG issue.

The C3 master has TAG, there is no ifs ands or buts on that.

I'm thinking the novelty is, letting the Raven Pilot, 'loan' the function out to a slave.

During the initiative phase they can 'pick' someone to handle the TAG functions, through the net work and that pilot can now use TAG, but doing so, denies the the C3 master from using TAG.

Since the new TAG is loaned out, and theirs some loss of efficiency, it gets with the shorter 3/6/9 range.


Does this sound reasonable and balanced to you peeps?

One movable tag sounds better than X free ones, even if it doesn't necessarily make sense hardware laser spotting wise.

It's not a big deal for me any which way though. Less freebies just make things more interesting from a combined arms aspect.

Like had anyone gone and said "Hey we want to field a ton of Hawkeyes, can we get some air tag support?" I'd probably have tried to work that in. Yet from what I can tell there hasn't been really any cross unit/lance communications or planning.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:39, Tue 15 Mar 2016.

no... not cross communication, but i did put out (3) LRM carrier, that each have half of their payload in Hawkeyes, and i did go out of my way to Mount a realy TAG on my tank.  I believe Miki put one out too, so that's a full lance of missiles between the two of us.

Really... zero heat... so... like very little hassle mounting TAG.

All fine and dandy if i'm the only one using TAG, but if i miss that's a lot of wasted missiles, i figure Anto will be happy to have his infantry spot too, and i can always direct fire them, but i thought it was worth mentioning that we werent always going to be at the whims of the mission for hawkeye support.

of course, they could blow up my tanks, but (shrugs) thems the breaks.

mounting a light tag on a warrior wouldnt be hard either, half a ton and a little power amperage.  Probably more effective than a machine gun.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:55, Tue 15 Mar 2016.

Yep I saw them later on, and I fully appreciate the difficulty of getting a single unit working and speccing together, least of all multiple units, but yeah. I personally expect that we will need to get a lot better at joint unit overlap and support. With a majority of the units fielded not being mechs, things become more interesting than in past games I think.

Maybe, will see.

New campaign and new stuff.  So... it has that new concept feel even if I do recycle a lot of the old stuff new things like the c3 and new players should help to keep things fresh and interesting. I do put my disclaimer in that I'm on the learning curve to so much of this is very mexican.

Sorry for any delay peeps had to deal with family issues so it'll be tomorrow when I can get moving to speed.

Delay is mine you still don't have a map

Hmmm. Who needs a bombing run? haha

Almost ready Harley, you're actually the last unit for me to include in Task Force Red.

Taking a short break at the moment though to get some things done, you know you have (2) 12 ton VTOLs under your control and you place with the rest of the Republic.  Just need another day or so to note it in the mission, not worth holding it up, now that theres a map.

You can probably start placement set up, Tau will note when he's going to start the clock on the mission officially when he's ready.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:39, Tue 15 Mar 2016.

Ah. Roger that boss. So the level 2 areas that have trees or buildings affect lvl 3? So pull up to lvl 4 for combat ops over those areas?
This message was last edited by the player at 17:41, Tue 15 Mar 2016.

Levels mark 'ground' level for the hex.  Trees add two levels to the hex.

So if youre not careful you can make a mess if youre not careful.

Also watch side slipping rules, remember op force gets to displace you if you miss the roll and it's legal to have you roll into the side of the cliff or into a building if youre careless.

Where upon if it happens, we write it off as a learning lesson and roll up a new character.

>.>

haha If I screw up that badly I'd deserve that for sure.

I'm seeing it now. Tree tops are always two levels high, and at level 3 that would put them at lvl 5 in total. Rustier at this than I thought.

Could be worse, i could criss cross the ground with telephone wire.

hahahaha I'm a old WireDawg (Airforce Telephone Maintainer). That would just make me feel at home.

Yeah, but phone wires are death to VTOL pilots.

haha True true. Espically for those roters the Warrior has a even weirder tail roter setup so a stray paper bag might take it down. haha

Just removed James.

Aside from the initial request to join he hasnt responded to anything.

(shrugs)

That sort of attention wont cut it in this campaign...

Please note...

Missions run a lot like a battletech game, but with some notable differences.

The biggest difference is how Initiative is calculated.  Based on the characters Drive or Pilot skill, and modified by the leadership they're under.

The other notable difference is how character damage will affect your characters ability to perform.  You do not take a bullet or a concussion and still function at tip top performance levels.  There is potential significant ability loss, that feel crippling if inflicted.  On average the character will take a one or two penalty on all their rolls/skills, affecting their ability to shoot straight, pilot normally, and even lead effectively.  This is particularly felt when the leader of a unit goes down, leadership is loss for at least one combat turn as the next in line to command steps up to take over once it's discovered that the commander has gone down.

Not seeing where in the combat reference it mentions the change to rolls based on pilot damage. But boy that VTOL damage section is scarey. ^_^

It's in the campaign PDF.

umm... the link to the campaign pdf is at...

hm.... i take it for granted that everyone has downloaded it, does someone have the link handy?

Found it.
http://www.angelickitten.com/rpol/pdf/KittenTech.pdf

Actually those are standard VTOL hit tables from Fasa.  They're actually less fragile than the City Tech rules, where the Rotors take full damage and were a Medium Laser from dead.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:22, Thu 17 Mar 2016.

 Umm, refresh my memory please, med range penalties are in order Med +2,Long +4,Extreme is what? +6?.

Extreme ranges have a penalty of six, but they also require the character to roll 13+, so only characters who are specialized with the weapon will ever be able to hit with Extreme range.

 Ok, thank you.

To keep things simple, fire support is close enough that it's instantaneous.  That wont always be the case, but its the first mission and i'm trying to be kind and keep things simple.

You saying you are being kind....is scarier than anything else you could have said there. Shivers. Honestly.

Yeah, another example of me taking things for granted...

Copy pasted from Task Force Blue, so Task Force Red can benefit too.  I should probably put this in the reference thread.




willing to accept your movement orders at this time Galen, but please plot your movement for me in the future, so that i can be certain there is no mistake (mine or yours) on intent.

ie.

You have...
Run, 6 hexes moved final location 1227 ne

I would prefer
Havoc ~ Run ~ F2 L1 F4(+1) ~ 1227ne ~ +2 Def Modifier

It has all the information i will need to make for a speedy turn resolution.
I can see your movement plot, so i dont have to guess how you get to where you got, I can see where your end hex suppose to be and match it to the movement plot to double check youre going where you want to go.  I know you have a +2 penalty to your attack for the run, I know you have a +2 Def modifier when youre being shot.

It may sound a little nit picky, but when youre resolving mass combat... especially now with all those conventional units, it makes a notable difference in difficulty to track all the numbers, and cuts down on questions i may have to ask players which makes for a speedier turn around.

Np I was waiting for you or someone else to let me know how you like them as I was the first figured there was another way but mine made sure it made sense.

That's fine.  All veteran players know the format, and it was just an over sight on my part.

I post movement and weapon fire formats in the reference table thread so that new players have a reference.

First missions for new players are a bit of an adjustment, but after the first game or two, you'll be an old hand and answering questions for new players.

I edited the npc and my move posts to reflect the proper method. Do they look better now.

FYI, for players who dont know...

Copperheads are like Arrow IV, except they do damage based on artillery type.

Unless otherwise noted your support will be from Thumpers, which provide (5) points of damage or each copperhead.

You do not have to specify a hex, they are guided in by TAG.  They resolve after weapon fire, but a part of the weapon fire phase (so they contribute to pilot checks for damage) and before physical combat damage.


So Anton can call for his salvo of Copper heads, and they will resolve at that time on targets that have been painted with TAG, or they will all miss if nothing has been painted.

Much better, and accepted, though the movement of the Stinger, in theory should have been done by Einar, since he's the lance commander, and responsible for NPCs, and tardy players, unless i ask for it otherwise.  (like when i indicated i would accept placement for the Stingers from any player paying attention)

Np, learning curve, great game so far thanks for the invite hope to be a veteran soon. Need to start my black market on gear, need improvements fast for when we meet clan. Either that or stockpile my favors until clan and just get whatever of their salvaged tech I can get.

already asked and discussed elsewhere but...

when the clans do show.

appearances in the player hand will depend on their ability to pry it out of the clans hands on the battlefield.


Around half of what you take from the battlefield will show up in the auction house... where... you guessed it, you bid favors at the auction house to try and get your grubby hands on the stuff.


So... yeah accumulating favors isnt a terrible thing for that day.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:59, Thu 17 Mar 2016.

I was wondering how that would be resolved.  I can expect Clan DHS will be highly contested salvage.

*Starts collecting favours for the eventual Clan ER PPC*

You can keep your ERPPC and CDHS I just want all the ERSLs

haha Fist fight by the mech jocks for the spare parts. Do I get to bet on them?

No fights here, she can have all the small lasers.  A C-Streak SRM also sounds really nice for my 'eventually' plans.

I will just take the whole mech and fix the parts I need

haha There ya go! Just sneak in and take the whole mech! Meanwhile I'll be trying to dodge the afterlife. hehe

For the most part, it's going to be a mechwarriors world in the auction house, since clan stuff is too valuable to 'waste' on conventional.

I have a few missions to go before i figure out what conventionals get out of the deal.

Its been so long since I really looked over the clan stuff outside of various guns/ammo not a whole lot a little Helicopter can upgrade to. Though if some of their VTOLs are faster or can hold more carpet bombing goodness those might be tasty steals.

Clans dont use conventionals.

Classically speaking they do...but they might not in Kitten's universe making the entire following potentially pointless...  ;)

Not really when it comes to bombs.

They have the resources to actually outfit their vehicles with XL engines though allowing the usual Clan energy weapons.  Clan missile systems are streaks on them too, unless they are LRM's and then they can pack on twice as many since those only weight half the mass of the IS equivalents.

But we'd have to capture a VTOL completely intact, or a vehicle in the same manner when it comes to the XL engines that open up speed and mass for systems.

That...

Would be very rare of an opportunity.

See when the clan mech gets disabled due to its leg damage, willing to just take whole mech and fix the leg damage later that way I get great engine  heat sinks and weapons. Hell I am not to greedy, even willing to go in and steal one if I have too, my guy is the roguish type. Graduated first in my class at the Blackjack school of conflict.

Unless we happen upon a Fire Moth, which given Ghost Bear is one of their most frequent users is not impossible, I really have nothing to spend my favor points on except ERSLs even DHS I will take hand me down IS versions as I have plenty of empty space to put them in and the extra non weapon crit slots may actually help.

The Clans do not make use of weaponized vehicles of any kind until at least 3060 when they begin to really adapt to IC combined arms tactics, until then their vehicles are for logistical support only and mount no weapons.

True...

But Kitten has moved tech, advances and changes forward depending on needs.

Ok, let me know when we get a Need list I will throw a Fire Moth D on mine.

I can tell you one thing though with almost 100% certainty...

We will never get a full mech swap to a Clan front line mech unless we've been at it for a very, very long time.  Any full mechs will get tossed back to Command and the R&D boys to try and manufacture them for the Republic.

You're far, far more likely to piecemeal a bunch of Clan tech onto an IS frame.

We might really far down the line (aka around the 50k post mark if posting and mission are at about the same speed) get a second line Clan mech, but even then that's wishful thinking unless Kitten gets deep into the Catnip...

I just want something fairly fast with lots of energy weapons and a targeting computer so I can cause some destruction in it. Extreme range with clan tech weapons and targeting computer with me rolling d8's ouch to those on the receiving end of it.


Hell like I said being the roguish type willing to forge my own numbers and paperwork on it to pass it off as IS.

*grins*

Not gonna happen.  Especially since we're official FRR military.  If we were still playing Mercs maybe, but we're not.

You mean we are not playing Mercs until we find some and dont want to give them up, then the Merc path looks nice and profitable in clan gear.

*chuckles*

Well Einar will never, that much I can tell you with no doubt, ever become a Merc as long as the FRR exists in some fashion.  Be it the Republic like it is now or the Ghost Bear Dominion later...at which point in time I won't need to worry about not having access to Clan tech anyway :P

haha I'll just be happy to fly through a swarm of the clanners and survive to the other side.

As long as we get at least 3055 IS tech I can make due with the DIY version of the Inner Sphere Fire Moth, but the clan ERSLs really are an important part of the plan so those will be going in my collection as quickly as possible.

You do realize... that we have (craptastic) version of the {beta} Targeting computer, and inner sphere version of the ER small lasers in the campaign?

Obviously... not as good as Clan, but for peeps looking for something for... say CAT, or an edge in targeting.  It is an option to look at, available ... for a favor here and there, with out waiting for Clans.

There are also light ballistic weapons that make the ballistic weapon spec not totally useless on a light mech.

A pretty standard campaign variant swaps out the Machine guns for AC/2 light, which is a more favorable anti mech weapon.

So soon I need to get a targeting computer and some better lasers see what room I have and what I can lose and still get them.


Might need to kill a bigger mech Than my wolfhound and trick it out. This wolf will be good for now. Get something nice in the 55 ton range and trick it out for energy and targeting comp. Then I can go headhunting as the saying goes. With the beta computers we able to target locations.

We're a Light Mech Company Galen :)

You 'upgrade' to a 55ton mech and you get transferred out of the 325th and into another one...ending that particular characters play in this particular campaign.  Also likely transfered right into the meat grinder versus front line Clanner pilots and mechs that will chew up that 55 ton IS mech up and spit it out leaving you dead or dispossessed.

And no you can't target specific locations with the existing IS targeting computers.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:41, Thu 17 Mar 2016.

hehe I can. Sector 0616, 0716, 0815, 0915, 1014. Perhaps with a earth shattering kaboom.

So what is the biggest toy I can ride a 45 hatchetman or something

Actually the targeting function works at short range...  the hit bonus at range medium and long.  so if youre close enough you can.

you dont get 'both' effects with it though.

Your Mech Specialty is for 35 and 40 ton mechs, larger or smaller and you lose that particular bonus.

This is why i insist people make their own characters, when you have someone do it for you, the fine print is often overlooked.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:32, Thu 17 Mar 2016.

Kewl, I knew you didn't get both but I like targeting soft spots.

Looks like I need to find 1 ton somewhere.

Interested in dropping my rear medium laser, and maybe get the new armor for hopefully a 1 ton saving.

Then once I get my DHS would have a large laser, 3 medium lasers with targeting computer.

So after this mission will need some help on how to go about getting those new toys.

Not quite.

Old campaign was you took a contract, which ran 3 or so mission, then you had a break for bookkeeping and downtime.

That's when you got a chance to spend your money as a merc, or in this case call in favors to get things done.

You wont get a chance to do anything with your mech till, around after mission 3 is my expectation when this set of Ronin missions runs out.

At that point i'll decide if i want to do another set or Ronin Missions or just start the Clan missions.  i need certain things in play before starting the Clan mission, most notably a few stable battlemasters capable of running missions without my assistance.

At the moment it's just me an Tau, by then... hopefully i should have two more, and maybe.. a few more players.  Never know.


I've learned not to over plan things.  They rarely turn out the way you expect anyway so easier to go with the flow when you dont over plan.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:41, Thu 17 Mar 2016.

The mech spec we roll d7's while in that type of mech right.

What type of rolls do we get it for just piloting to keep feet or for physical combat etc. Sure it is not for initiative.

Want better idea so will know when I get that d7 so much better stuff we can do then.

no.  Mech Spec, you add one to all pilot checks, while youre in that mech.  Your pilot skill goes down without it.

d7s are for weapons.  To hit at extreme range you need to roll a 13+

Ok so the better score for pilot, was listed as bigger die size also so was confused. With my energy spec am at d8's already.

There are some minor statistical variations on how the D7s and D8s function when compared to the +1 or +2 counter parts, some of which are made slightly less similar due to RPOL's already quirky Dice Roller code but taken as an average they should have almost exactly the net effect same in the long run.

haha Need a 8? How about a 7 its pretty close! hahaha The greatest trickster is the Dice Roller.

Correct.

But there are some advantages for the use of D7s and D8s over +1 and +2

For one thing, 2's always fail, and considered a roleplaying fumble of some sort leading to ununsual events.

For things like a AC/5 gunnery jam, it's much less likely to roll on d7s and d8s.

Most notably, i use d7s an D8s as a means to use Extreme range, with out making them over powered.

So statistically they're similiar, but they allow the use of campaign statistics.


They were looked at for piloting, but deemed unecessary, since there is no extreme range for piloting... or some such.

So Tau was talking about movement in the the other thread, and it dawned on me..

Why don't we have sideways movement in VTOLs? I mean we're flying helicopters like fixed wing aircraft.

I know battletech doesn't cover it, but wow it really doesn't make sense, and it really robs one of the other advantages in mobility that helicopters actually have.

I was actually surprised that VTOL's don't have the same option that Scorpion battlemechs have in the sidestep where they use 2 MP to shift to one of the four possible side hexes.

You are right that it makes sense for them to be able to do it, but you're also right that they don't cover it.  Mainly because it's always been that Battletech focuses the prestige, power and capability on Mechs and not on other things.

Ah true, forgot about the quad mechs..

Hmm, yeah battletech never has shown a lot of love to the mixed arms side of thing really.

Always wanted to play a Scorpion in one of Kitten's games but they are both way too expensive cause of the massive engine and way too heavy for any of her flavor of games.  The fact that I was just barely able to play that Shadow Hawk due to the bonus cash from being around for everything was fun but the fact that you loose out on both options (in being forced to take Lyran to have enough money) as well as specs really hurts.  Since 55 ton mechs are beyond her normal play access you can't even take advantage of something like Mech Spec to let them roll around with d7/d8 piloting.

Then on top of it vanilla versions are not combat effective, add a bunch of tonnage to your own lance and correspondingly to the enemy OpFor and the low xp start making you worth less in combat is a heavy price to pay.  Even more so in the Merc version because while you get pay increases from going up in mech size (Kitten versions 20t Light +1, 25-30t Medium +2, 35-40 Heavy +3, 45-50 Assault +4) when you hit 55 you get nothing as the increased cost of upkeep goes beyond any benefit and simply is a break even spot.  So you can theoretically under a Blue Moon be allowed to play one/upgrade into one (not so much in this game though) it very much is an end game sort of goal with little actual forward play in them.

That though is one big tangent...

Battletech is Battletech cause of the focus on mechs as Kings of the Battlefield.

haha I'm just jazzed that Kitten still allows LAMs to be more than a figment of the past. I've always loved the idea of variable fighter/mechs but their original IP makes them so fiddly its ridiculous. Millions of Micro missiles on a F-16 that then becomes a skyscraper tall robot that still houses all those missiles but is expected to get in 'fist' fights? Meh.

Btechs versions as wonky, experimental versatile to the point of no one really knowing what to do with them masterpieces.  In my brain a squad of LAMs should be scouts or snatch and grab squads.

And movement is a mess yes. But its simplified so you don't have to learn yet another new thing if you put a tank on the field. Its curious in my eyes but not a game changer as I get stuck back in.

LAM's are best used in a much more focused RPG version of the game than this is as as part of the players all being a SpecOps team.  Then they fill the role of versatile insertion vehicle to get them in places that a vehicle or mech cannot to then hide them and head out on foot to do their wetwork.  In a pinch they can be used for 'normal' mech combat but the hybrid nature makes them pound for pound weaker than either a mech or an aerofighter meaning they need to have either excessive skill or a handful of advanced tech replacing standard gear to give them a surprise edge.

I can see your point there. Good evac units for saboteur units.

You can use them in a normal mech fight like these but if we're really sticking to the fluff behind them they are far too valuable to be wasted in such a manner.  The Houses that have them have generally pulled them all together to use in special missions and even use their power and sway to take damaged ones out of the hands of the families that own them privately (by giving them Rank, Lands, Titles, Power as well as a more conventional mech so they are not dispossessed) to pull apart for spare parts for the undamaged ones that are controlled by the House.

Been there, done that.

That's what the 101st game was suppose to be.

Just couldnt get it to work for some reason, i blame trying to run more than one battletech campaign being the problem for that, wont make that mistake again...

Much like how i've allowed mechs to sprint I dont see a reason why it cant be include in the campaign as a form of piloting specialty for VTOLs.  The nice thing about homebrew rules is i get to make them up as i go along and need them?

Just got home btw ,i was out doing school stuff for the baby most of the day, will try and get something done tonight, but may have to let it wait till morning.

I would be more inclined to suggest allowing VTOL's to differentiate their facing from their direction of travel than I would to give them a sidestep option.  At the risk of going to far into Physics rather than focusing on system mechanics the direction of travel on a VTOL already changes fairly quickly relative to the speed they travel by sharing the same basic turn radius system mechanics as ground based vehicles.  Sidestepping in the air would suggest a significant alteration to their net vector twice in rapid succession.

To simulate the VTOL's ability to move sideways with similar proficiency to its ability to move forward I would instead make the VTOL function like it's own turret.  The craft maintains the same vector of movement but rotates its 'front' and thus weapon arc to some other angle in the same way a tank's turret turning does not significantly alter its mass or movement vector.

This is still a difficult maneuver and would be well worth an investment of some specialized skill.  It will also be considerably more likely to come into game as a relevant factor because the most common use of the sidestep to dodge around small terrain features is very nearly meaningless to flying units.

No.

That sounds sort of complicated to me, VTOLs can already mount turrets, if that's what they wanted.

I dont think it's a rule breaking issue if they can side slip for 2 mp, in a manner similar to four legged mechs.

It's open for debate and nothing is in stone, but really if youre going to spend the options for it, and then the spec for it, i dont consider it broken to let them do any more than it is to let mechs sprint.

I don't think the sidestep is broken in the usual sense of suggesting it is to powerful I think it won't come into play often enough to be a meaningful feature.

Just changing which hex line you are in is mostly useless unless there is some obstruction in your path, but VTOL craft don't interact with terrain enough for that to matter.

The turret size limits on the VTOL are significant enough given their already limited capabilities that a skill to effectively turn the whole VTOL into a turret would have significant value.  Added to that with the highly limited customization options we already use being able to use just any stock VTOL will keep the skill in play.

Doing that reminds me of the Fasa Game Interceptor, where in space momentum will carry you one way, but you could apply thrust to turn.

Too... complicated.

The quad side slip movement is a little bit situational, but then again so is mech sprinting, you never know what people will take till you make it available.  People can surprise you.

For the longest of time... CAT was on the books and never used till the application of specialties made them useful.

(Besides sometimes people take things for visual effects, or cause they like the concept, not cause it's practical... like the LAM.)
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:31, Sat 19 Mar 2016.

Doing that reminds me of the Fasa Game Interceptor, where in space momentum will carry you one way, but you could apply thrust to turn.

Too... complicated.

The quad side slip movement is a little bit situational, but then again so is mech sprinting, you never know what people will take till you make it available.  People can surprise you.

For the longest of time... CAT was on the books and never used till the application of specialties made them useful.

Having played a VTOL pilot in a different life so to speak I often used terrain to impose additional DefMod against mechs that couldn't gain elevation against me as well as loose line of sight completely.  Being able to consciously sideslip forward to the left or right for 2 MP rather than the three it would take normally not only conserves their movement points but also allows them to go further on Cruising speeds and avoid any unintentional sideslips from Flanking applied by their adversary when they fail a PSR.

For those that like to play fast and loose...cause a physical attack that connects from a mech will automatically destroy the rotors on a VTOL...and pilot NOE for defensive modifiers I think is far less situational.  Of course if the map has no terrain it is less useful...

Very very very rarely have i ever put a map out with some sort of tactical terrain to muck around and experiment with.

I think it's useful, and if it was a specialty of X-Train Aero for 15 or 25xp much like strafe and bombing, I'd consider picking it up.

It could be usefull. But now that I'm back up to speed on how stuff works I'll be able work around such things. Its already hard enough to line up nearly five hexes in a row for baddies to be in. haha

Just a reminder, if you are not taking a shot, you should announce 'no shot', or some such, so that the battlemaster knows you checked in, and is not waiting for a player turn that doesnt exist.

Have to attend to some doctors appointments today so any posts/commentary from me will be later this afternoon or evening.

Working on the evil known as Income Taxes, for a day or so...

That being the case, i may be distracted for a day or so...

Roger that. Do em right so you don't have to do them again. haha Thats a pain.

Might be out today myself. Saw the evil of income tax work, and a minute later my phone went ping. May be doing escort duty to an ER today for a friend and her shortie that can't seem to keep any fluids down.

Just try other fluids, Shorties can handle tequila just fine.

It never fails to amaze me how much people complain about income tax.  Sure the system is about as convoluted and counter productive as it could possibly be and still even look like it works but on the plus side the harder yours are to do the more income that means you have, which is generally a good thing.

...or youre the designated tax cruncher for several returns...

Q1 has been rough for me in the tax department. Oh March federal taxes and a huge tax bill sorted. Oh April, look time for payroll taxes for the quarter and estimated quarterly tax payment for 2016, more thousands gone. All while in the middle of underwriting, and don't do anything that will mess with your credit rating, or credit to debt ratios..

Bleh :)

Amazing how bad the initiative rolls have been for the players.

o.O

Yup just glad I won mine maybe can get a hit in this round. Welcome back from Tax graveyard

not out of the woods yet, but i wanted to get a turn update in, it's been way the hell overdue.

Np you do what you need to do, I will be here for the duration.

I'm looking at working out clan units.

Omni mechs as written are going to be seriously over powered.

A single vulture could be mangling death for the entire company.


So...

Do you guys want me to leave them alone and make them available in all their gory glory, or should i treat them like conventional units, and develop half sized omni mechs ?

I say bring them on in all their glory.

They are going to have some pimp gear, that is never in question, and they will have some good pilots but as the saying goes...

No Guts, No Glory!

(and no cool gear to pick up to mod onto our rides if we pull off a good mission)

 I will agree with Einar. Bring them on.

Aye, there is a reason the clans were so deadly, mind as well as keep it. Just would be good if the BMs and missions can reflect the clan weak points as well.

yeah, obviously there will be clan combat issues to resolve.

I'm just looking at the long picture, the players are geared for light, and wont naturally get larger than say 50 tons or so.

Even if a Vulture shows up and you manage to take it, it's never going to stay in the unit.

Why mangle players with omni mechs that i'm not going to let them keep?

Better for them to fight a lighter (say 35 ton) vulture, take and keep it ?
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:42, Fri 08 Apr 2016.

I agree we can be fighting maybe clan omni scout mechs downsize the tonnage to ours in general

I've established campaign weights as...

20-   is Light
25~30 is Medium
35~40 is Heavy
45~50 is Assault

I just think it makes sense to scale the omni mechs that will be used down to follow these sizes, to keep the fight 'fair'.

It doesnt seem fair to keep the players capped at 50 tons, and put a Kodiak on the map for them to fight and, then, if they should happen to blow the leg off, they cant take it for salvage?

I'm the only one that doesnt think this is fair?

---

ie.

Last campaign, there was the infamous Mother Mission.

Four power loaders against a proto type 'madcat', it was only 65 tons, but it hit like a freight train.  Think about the magnitude of that.

The ugly 85 ton rifleman, with 4 large pulse lasers.  (shudder)

There's hard, and then there's suicidal like impossible.

Well the advantage isn't in keeping the Vulture, it's being able to keep the weapons loadouts that are far more easily removed thanks to the modular nature of them.

There are a handful of light omni's as well and as you've pointed out you can relatively easily shift IS mechs to having Clan weapons in the same fashion.  Less of course your goal is to slowly give us the chance to actually pilot those Clan Omni's on a regular basis...

Which in the past entire mech 'upgrades' were very, very rare.

It's a new campaign.

Who knows what will happen?

Realistically I'd think seeing any of the heavy/assault weight Omni mechs would be pretty rare, unless we are suddenly fighting first line clan units, which being a light unit, are pretty much not equipped for. Unless maybe things become more mission objective based vs slugfest.

Personally I think I'd prefer to see generally second line clan units, maybe with some actual light Omni designs, occasionally with the rare medium or heavy or assault Omni mech commander. Vs a unit of baby Timberwolves, stormcrows, novas and other stuff.

However, not my campaign, and being airborne I doubt I'll benefit from much of the so called salvage or mech stealing oppertunities either :)

When we get to the clan missions, BMs, will actually 'bid' to run the missions, low bid runs the missions.  So it'll be fun clan like from the BM side of the campaign.

I plan on having the 'base' cost of a mech listed for bids, modify this cost by the pilot's skill.

So players will run into what ever the winning BM wants to put on, subject to his Bid.

I plan to track and have a tally of the BM's honor too, which is a sort of Clan currency, similiar to Favors for the Republic.

It should be interesting.

 Another thought for the clans is their habit of having to bid forces for any combat, so perhaps that would be in our "favor" on what clan forces show up to fight us?.

Which will be reflected by the BMs bidding against one another for the low bid.

This being the case i dont see any need for anything special to reflect that.

This does presume i have enough capable BMs to make this happen, by the time i'm ready to run the clans, i should... in theory have at least four BMs ready to go.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:07, Fri 08 Apr 2016.

I say bring on the Clans, within your new weight categories.  There's a reason they're scary.  Even one Stormcrow Prime will give us a significant challenge

Also, if we're on the front lines with them then we should get decently high priority for salvage.

Rather than go to all the effort of miniaturizing the larger clan mechs why not just use the smaller ones that already exist.

There are dozens of choices in each weight class even in the limited selection from the initial invasion.

It makes more sense that as a light unit we are simply deployed against equally light units than it does to try to rebuild the entire world just to make it look like a miniature version of itself.  Not to mention how much easier it is to just use stuff that already exists.

I'm going to try and have my cake and eat it too.

I'm going to leave the existing omni mechs but rework some into lighter versions.


So while a Mad Cat is still 75 tons, the existence of a Mad Cat 'light' might be a 40 ton Omni.

My justification for these, will be that they're cheaper and easier to produce, and while front line units wont deem to use them, commanders of second string units will.

Just out of curiosity how do you see a 'light' mad cat being importantly different than say an arctic wolf http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Arctic_Wolf other than being able to use the more popular 'signature' clan mech names?

One important difference is I know that Kitten is going to reduce even the Clan's ability to use Double Heat Sinks and that causes all sorts of problems for a lot of the various Alt Configs.  When a Clan mech mounting 10 heat sinks only has 4 of them being double it totally changes the calculus of what gets mounted.

I have to work and tinker with them anyway.  The reason for this, is because the cornerstone of all the omni mechs is that most if not all of them have 10(20) heat sinks.

i dont consider it fair to give them this, without limitations, when the players arent allowed them, it's hard to justify why the clans can?

It's possible to just rework them as defined, changing them to 10(17) and adjusting the available crits, but honestly, if i'm going to sit down and rework them, i'd rather play balance them to the scale of the campaign too.


I know... for newer players, it might seem like reinventing the wheel by making everything light and medium, for mission pacing, and player survival, there is a huge difference between clan lights and mediums engaging the players and heavy assaults laying into them.

To understand my concerns, veteran players really only have to think back to the Mother Mission, with the 65 ton Mad Cat and how hard that mission was, and how lucky the players were to walk off with the losses they got.

Clan DS/HS are only two crits, so they get to mount (3) extra, one in each leg and the CT.  So they may have a notable heat sink advantage, but they're losing 14 criticals for it, and they're all placed on the mech and subject to damage.

That seems a lot more fair that saying they have 10 extra heat sinks with no downside.  also makes it easier to hand over to player this way.

I see, so they won't really be clan mechs at all.  In that case you will need to reinvent the wheel anyways so the only question becomes do you want to use the popular names for well known clan mechs on your custom second line mini omni mechs?  In that case I would say sure go ahead and name them whatever amuses you.

I for one would rather fight regular clan mechs that already exist in our weight class and keep what we kill.  There will be a difficult transition period where we will need to seriously out number our targets but eventually we will be on even footing again.

I will allow those to exist, i dont see why things like a Koshi cant be used.  They just need to have the heat sinks and critical spaces adjusted.  My big concerns is for things like Vultures and MadCats... even Ryokens could be really bad.

Right.  After browsing Omni mechs, i've discerned a new reason they need to be redesigned.

With the new heat sink rules, all the omni mechs lose 14 critical spaces.

Anyone that's loaded out a Omni knows, that sometimes the concern isnt heat sinks or tonnage, but critical spaces.

Something like the Koshi, only has 16 critical spaces to start.  With the new heat sink rules, the critical spaces is reduced to 2.

So... thought is going to have to be dedicated to making them work anyway, so if i'm going to redesign them, i might as well do it from scratch with my intended weight classes.

Which if people are keeping track the loss of crits to double heat sinks brings Clan mechs critical space in line with IS mechs...

7 endo and 7 ferro with an extra 14 DHS gives you the same as IS Endo 14 plus Ferro 14.

So it's close to identical when you look at scaling and power.

For the curious, on what the clan omni mechs will look like, I've worked out a good sampling.

http://wiki.rpol.net/?edit=56363/_clanomni

Movement profiles were kept, Tonnage for Pod Space was kept.

Heat sinks were adjusted, based on available Tonnage.

For most of them, (2) crits were kept in the torsos, for extra heat sinks, or target computers, or EW that the pilot might want to mount.  Around (5) crits were kept in the arms for weapons, and maybe extra heat sinks that the pilot might want mount.

Looking at the crush of workable space, i've concluded that really, the larger mechs wouldnt benefit much from the larger pod space because they dont have the criticals to make the best use for them.


The 'light' omni mechs that i plan to work out WONT be using XL, which will make them less likely to being disabled from losing a torso, and will free up critical spaces for them to work with.  Those actually require that i work out construction numbers so, i wont work on them just quite yet, though i've listed the mechs i plan to develop for them.

>.<

Phone down, meaning internet down, and theres a verizon strike.

i cant post anything serious for a bit till this is resolves.

UGH.

 Out here on the west coast, Verizon has sold its rights to a outfit called Frontier comm. So i guess i will see how that works out.

House closed, moving business and home these next few days, probably will be pretty out of touch till Friday or so.

Congrats on the house closing, and so noted.

grats (i think?) Rymi.

I have a connection again, but i've lost my pacing, again.

Will try and get my shyt together, but hubbie is home for the next few days, and driving me crazy, so i might be off my pace for that reason too.

Just do whatcha can, when you can.

 I suppose that lrm carrier is coming out of my pockets...right?. :)

Yeah it's toast and cored.

You'll be down a vehicle till you can use a/multiple Favor(s) to try and get another one.

Sadly I doubt there will be enough salvage left from the bits of hunchback to make any difference on buying back any of our own lost units.

Hopefully we can kill some other things a little less destructively.

One of the advantages, or disadvantages depending on your point of view, is that we are a House unit rather than the more traditional merc unit.  After character creation the concept of C-bills used to buy our mechs/mods and other things goes away.  The 'currency' post creation is those Favors.

So instead of getting a 'paycheck' to buy back lost units, or repair damages weapons/armour/tech on our rides, you'll note that the first post in a given mission lists Objectives.  Each objective fulfilled grants both Unit Favors as well as Individual Favors.  So for example if Mikael gets Individual Favors (or has left over ones from creation) he can 'spend' those favors in combination with a 2d6 dice roll against the rarity of a particular vehicle and if he succeeds then he'd get the vehicle.  Fluff wise it would be his personal pull with the Quartermasters and supply side pencil-pushers to have a replacement vehicle and crew assigned to him...or something akin to that.

Kitten has a general guideline for Favors, the potential things that they can be used for and the like under the Favor Thread she stickied at the top of the game.

Thanks for the congrats, Kitten and Tau.

Still trying to setup office, and way to many other things, along with now wasp issues, and other fun bits, but yeah YAY :) Getting out of the over priced rental is fantastic, just my todo list has tripled in size now for awhile.

Anyways internet is setup here now, and i'll be checking in, just still really busy, hopefully knock out office setup this weekend.

Really over due to update stuff, apologies, no update tonight but i should DEFINITELY have one tommorrow.

Hubbie is taking the little one out for the weekend and i'll be home alone, which means i wont be distracted.

Expect updates this weekend for everything thing, but not tonight.

Going to spend some quality time with family before they go off for the weekend.

Cool...

Will postpone updates for Red then till tomorrow since I know you're around.

o.O

Well...

new campaign, and I'm not too proud to admit i'm on the learning curve too.

I evdently wrote the missions up favor heavy at the expense of xp.

For this mission only, will allow players to trade up to two of the favors earned in the mission, one for one, for xp.

---

Players taking a Mulligan have their favors reset, but get to add xp and favors earned from the past mission to the new character to spend.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:42, Sun 24 Apr 2016.

Is there any cost chart or algorithm we can use to approximate the value of favors as they compare to C-bills or is it more of an auction system where the most favors pulled gets stuff?

This:

Old campaign was CB driven, and between wild stallions and mercenaries went on for years.

Veteran players are actually use to it, and while i could have done that again, really... when you were burnt out or just a little tired, the bookkeeping could be soul crushing.

I've since learned my lesson, and i'm trying to adopt a more casual system.  Being a 'house' unit means i can justify not counting all the Comstar Bills, someone in the campaign in logistics is doing it, i'm sure, it doesnt have to be me.

As a house unit, when you take losses, I offer you something as a replacement.

ie.  Viking lost a LRM carrier, with a Regular crew in it.

At this time, i judge that the Republic's ability to replace this is reasonable.  So, without the requirement of favors, I offer him a lighter Hunter Tank with a Green Crew.  This crew has a chance of being Regular if he can make a tn 8+ roll (not adjustable with edge)

I give him the option of improving this with favors.  With a favor, he can opt not to roll dice, and just take a Regular Tank Crew.  He can do this after a failed roll, for two favors.  I also offer him the opportunity to upgrade the tank LRM Carrier, which was lost, for a favor.

So... for two favors, he can replace the lost tank.

---

Eventually... when clan tech arrives, there will be an auction bidding system.

Equipment will hit the auction house with a minimum bid.

It's a secret ballot, one bid take all deal.  Players put in their bids and the winning bid takes it.

ie.  A Inner Sphere DS/HS might cost you (1~2) favors.  Clan DS/HS might hit the auction with a bid cost of (4) favors.  This is because, they are small (less crits) and can be used in locations, a Inner Sphere Heat sink can't be used.  (ie, CT and Legs), which would allow players to break the five heat sink limit on DS/HS.  Players with mechs that run hot are really going to want these.  So if demand outweighs availability, its a Bidding war.  To keep it short, each player gets one chance to bid favors on what they want (cant bid more favors than you have).

When the auction is over, Winners pay the favors out for the bids they win and collect their prize.

Their is a cover cost of (1) Favor for any player that participates in the auction.  Even if you win nothing, you spent a favor.  You still had people try and get things done for you, even if you got nothing from it, the effort was made, and at least in part some of the favors were used.



Make sense?