RolePlay onLine RPoL Logo

, welcome to In Search of the Unknown

14:34, 26th April 2024 (GMT+0)

OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016.

Posted by The SeerFor group 0
Uthecar Hornskin II
player, 156 posts
Fighter
Sun 4 Jun 2017
at 20:11
  • msg #323

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Certainly no offense taken.
The Seer
GM, 309 posts
Sun 11 Jun 2017
at 16:46
  • msg #324

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

LOL.

I get a sense of great relief from the players that they've actually got something to do besides wander aimlessly through the corridors Rogahn and Zelligar built...
The Seer
GM, 312 posts
Fri 16 Jun 2017
at 15:07
  • msg #325

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

A philosophical question:

Magic resistance has an opportunity to negate magical spells.

What if a spell is clerical, however? You could argue that divine magic is a boon from your deity...with that in mind, it is far more esoteric than mage-craft, thus, in some ways more powerful given its divine nature.

I've always played that MR affects both magical and clerical spells, but I'm open to other arguments and interpretations.

Discuss...
Bruno Rhunthane
player, 131 posts
Fighter and Cleric
AllAtTheSameTime
Fri 16 Jun 2017
at 16:26
  • msg #326

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

I like the idea that Clerical magic is inherently different from Wizardly magic. It makes sense at a basic level given that while nothing aside from losing the intellectual capacity (i.e., Intelligence) to memorize and cast spells can actually take the Magic User's spell casting ability away from him, a Cleric's god DOES NOT have to grant him spells. that is, coming directly from the god worshiped, if the PC fails to behave in accordance with the belief system of his Deity, then he should lose his ability to cast the Clerical spells the god bestows.

[NOTE: I found the 1st Edition Spells on a website for easy reference when we started playing this game (http://pandaria.rpgworlds.info...ules/adnd_spells.htm) and note that they provide the following at the beginning of the Clerical spells list, which sort of underlines that there is a moral obligation related to spell use by Clerics that does not exist in the same way for Magic Users:

The reversal of some spells might well place the cleric in a questionable position with respect to alignment. The use of spells which promote weal must be shunned by evil clerics in many cases. Likewise, spells which are baneful may be used only at peril by clerics of good alignment. Incautious use of spells will change the cleric's alignment, if such usage continues unchecked, and it is up to the player to guard his or her character's alignment with care. In any event, the cleric must decide which application of a reversible spell will be used prior to learning it i.e. it is not possible to have one spell both ways. In like manner, the mere request for a spell (or its opposite) through prayer will not guarantee that the spell will be given to the cleric. As the spell level becomes higher, confidence will decrease that that deity will concur.]

This doesn't mean that morals and ethics don't apply to Magic Users, this is what Guilds and other mundane organizations are supposed to be providing/ensuring (this is also where witchhunts, etc. come in to play), but it does mean that their spellcasting is reliant only upon their own training and innate capability to cast. Whereas a Cleric's is entirely based up his standing with the Deity granting the spell.

So, as long as the game is being run and played properly then either making it that Divine Magic is not affected by Magic Resistance OR making Magic Resistance specific to types of magic (i.e., Non-Divine or Divine) would be reasonable. That said, since the latter is not implicit already in the rules and stats of Monsters, et al. it adds a layer of complication, and the former might unbalance the system?

In other words, this is exactly the sort of reason I hate each edition of D&D. Please don't misunderstand me, after 36 or so years since being introduced to AD&D and through it rpging I have a sentimental affection for it and the highest regards for Gygax and Anderson and everyone else that created the original system.  HOWEVER, since those days as rpg systems have become ever more sophisticated there are systems that manage this sort of stuff elegantly and effectively without accretion like this adaptation would effectively be.
Thanks for letting me get that off my chest.
The Seer
GM, 313 posts
Fri 16 Jun 2017
at 19:29
  • msg #327

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

There is so much left to DM interpretation in 1st edition that later editions seem to micromanage everything despite the fact that, in many ways, they made things more seamless and easier to manage from both the player and DM perspective.

In regards to Magic Resistance: one of the things that could apply here re: the divine 'spells' is whether the creature is an 'outsider' of sorts. i.e. a deva or solar, a demon or devil, etc. If that is the case, than perhaps the outsider's magic resistance works specifically against divine spells that run counter to its alignment.

Would like to hear more perspectives, especially from those who have played clerics before.
Uthecar Hornskin II
player, 163 posts
Fighter
Fri 16 Jun 2017
at 19:50
  • msg #328

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Seer you've posted again as I was typing, not that it matters, but some of your points are mine as well.

The Seer:
I've always played that MR affects both magical and clerical spells, but I'm open to other arguments and interpretations.

Discuss...


This looks suspiciously like an exam question.  :-)

The Seer:
Magic resistance has an opportunity to negate magical spells.

What if a spell is clerical, however? You could argue that divine magic is a boon from your deity...with that in mind, it is far more esoteric than mage-craft, thus, in some ways more powerful given its divine nature.


I see the essence of the question answered in the question itself.  Spells are magical.  Whether it is divine or arcane in nature does not really concern this edition of ADND, unless there is a desire to add a level of complexity.

As Bruno points out when we delve into the depths of later editions we see various factions coming up with fixes for issues that they thought needed fixing which adds to the complexity and I think in essence begins to move the game away from freeform play and dumb down DM's.  You don't need to be creative and think up a solution, just turn to page blah, blah, blah and there's your pre-thought out answer.  Or rather than the DM (and players) coming up with a dice role solution one is already provided.  The more pessimistic side of me also says additional rules are mostly revenue driven.

Having said that some fixes are very helpful or insightful, but as the crinkles get ironed out, other smaller issues are also seen needing to be 'fixed' until all of a sudden we find ourselves in a heavily regulated environment.

In addition I believe the words of caution that Bruno shows for cleric's was written at a time when guidelines were being provided to players new to role-playing so they got a feel for the essence of the character class and game.  They have never been updated as they still serve as a good warning.  However, we have all developed and those guidelines are far too simple for the games we play.  For instance I would argue a good cleric could learn an unlimited number of Cause Wound spell's without punishment if he was using them like a mace to harm those that oppose his god's ethics.  Who would challenge that?  Is that one example going to fit every situation - NO - but our own better role-playing and understanding will.

It's all about perspective really, and the fact that we can have a philosophical discussion about a fantasy game means there is no right or wrong, right?
The Seer
GM, 314 posts
Fri 16 Jun 2017
at 20:17
  • msg #329

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Correct! I'm open to all interpretations of the rules...gives us something to ponder as you all wander lost through the dungeon.  LOL!
Kullonar
player, 83 posts
Half-Orc Cleric/Fighter
Brother of the Cudgel
Tue 20 Jun 2017
at 16:55
  • msg #330

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

I've always played that spell resistance encompasses both arcane and divine magic.
The Seer
GM, 317 posts
Tue 20 Jun 2017
at 17:32
  • msg #331

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Post coming tonight.
Uthecar Hornskin II
player, 166 posts
Fighter
Wed 21 Jun 2017
at 23:22
  • msg #332

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Cheers Myrrick.
Myrrick
player, 111 posts
Thu 22 Jun 2017
at 17:00
  • msg #333

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Hey, can't let my dwarf buddy die yet.

and I like your answer to the puddle fighting question.
The Seer
GM, 319 posts
Thu 22 Jun 2017
at 18:51
  • msg #334

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Post tonight. Very busy week.
The Seer
GM, 320 posts
Fri 23 Jun 2017
at 00:07
  • msg #335

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Rode hard, put up wet. You'll forgive me (I hope) if I don't post until this weekend - likely tomorrow, but perhaps as late as Saturday.

Pretty tired, folks - thanks for the understanding.
Bruno Rhunthane
player, 134 posts
Fighter and Cleric
AllAtTheSameTime
Fri 23 Jun 2017
at 16:02
  • msg #336

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Take care of yourself Seer!
Kullonar
player, 86 posts
Half-Orc Cleric/Fighter
Brother of the Cudgel
Fri 23 Jun 2017
at 19:17
  • msg #337

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

No worries, brother!
The Seer
GM, 321 posts
Mon 26 Jun 2017
at 02:51
  • msg #338

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Thanks, gang. Needed a downtime weekend - went to a ballgame yesterday, church and some bbq today.

That said, new post coming Monday, without fail!!!
The Seer
GM, 323 posts
Tue 27 Jun 2017
at 17:12
  • msg #339

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

So, I really meant Tuesday -

Thanks for understanding. Last week was one of those weeks. This week, however, has gotten off to a much better start.

Party's move...
Uthecar Hornskin II
player, 167 posts
Fighter
Wed 28 Jun 2017
at 02:03
  • msg #340

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Hi All - Called out of town at short notice - deathly sick parent that has pulled through.  Not back home until Friday your time.  Only mobile phone as internet connection and can't be bothered typing much this way.

Seer FYI AFK thread says it is closed so can't post notification there.
Kullonar
player, 88 posts
Half-Orc Cleric/Fighter
Brother of the Cudgel
Thu 29 Jun 2017
at 16:27
  • msg #341

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Safe travels and prayers for your family.
Myrrick
player, 113 posts
Fri 30 Jun 2017
at 13:08
  • msg #342

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

What Kullonar said.
Myrrick
player, 115 posts
Mon 3 Jul 2017
at 14:18
  • msg #343

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

stealing 1000... I know a certain King of Thieves who would be very proud.
The Seer
GM, 328 posts
Fri 7 Jul 2017
at 22:33
  • msg #344

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

So, my printer crapped out - fortunately, it's only 6 months old, but I have to wait two weeks for parts.

In the meantime, I'll be describing things as well as I can, and will update the map as soon as I can.
The Seer
GM, 336 posts
Fri 14 Jul 2017
at 01:01
  • msg #345

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Time out. I need to figure out what you guys are doing. The only door visible is the secret door, and you guys are inside.

Unless I'm completely off my rocker, in which case I've allowed this game turn into a shit show, which is my fault.

And before I go any further, I got the part, it doesn't work HP is sending me a refurbished printer to replace the brand new one I bought 7 months ago. fuckers.

worse, I had to talk to someone named Lucy who I will guarantee is not really named Lucy...

Aggravated - someone help me square this away. And look at the last map for reference.

Thanks

The MGMT, who've been sacked by upper mgmt, who've also been sacked...

(I'm getting better...).
Uthecar Hornskin II
player, 176 posts
Fighter
Fri 14 Jul 2017
at 02:31
  • msg #346

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Glad you said something Seer, I've been wondering about the secret door myself.  We're on the right page, the others seem to have muddled info.  Shall we just stick with Uthecar leading on and getting out of the room?
Kullonar
player, 93 posts
Half-Orc Cleric/Fighter
Brother of the Cudgel
Sat 15 Jul 2017
at 13:31
  • msg #347

Re: OOC: The First Chapter - August 2016

Looking at the last map, edited June 14, it seems we are at a secret room in the middle of a hallway...which is weird, but that's how dungeons were often designed.
Since this room is full of illusions and shit, I say we carry on up the corridor and see where it leads.
Uthecar, lead on...please!!
Sign In