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14:32, 28th March 2024 (GMT+0)

OOC:

Posted by GMFor group 0
GM
GM, 77 posts
Thu 8 Feb 2018
at 22:17
  • msg #1

OOC:

The place where you post stuff that are out of character.
Irfan
player, 3 posts
Thu 17 Jan 2019
at 04:09
  • msg #2

OOC:

The Current name of this game and the general image i have of the last game being china with the Mediterranean sea in the middle gives me a concept idea.

Levels 1-5 in the main region forming connections and learning about the region, with later levels expanding on exploring a recently discovered land mass similar to what china might have done when they discovered north america taking on elements of kingdom building, and determining the future of colonization or interactions with the new region.

As a Curious scholar, a new region with exotic things to discover and write about would be something worth atleast investing into even if done by npcs off screen. Perhaps my character should get around to forming a exploration company with the leadership feat later if we don't want to persue this as a major campaign point.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:16, Thu 17 Jan 2019.
Irfan
player, 4 posts
Scholar, Spheres of Might
Thu 17 Jan 2019
at 05:25
  • msg #3

OOC:

Could you start a Rules and character creation page, and list spheres of power (and might?) on it for reference.

Majors towns and locations page might be useful as well, so as we develope the world we have a reference.
This message was last edited by the player at 05:46, Thu 17 Jan 2019.
GM
GM, 83 posts
Sat 19 Jan 2019
at 11:08
  • msg #4

OOC:

On it.
Irfan
player, 13 posts
Scholar, Spheres of Might
Sat 2 Feb 2019
at 20:26
  • msg #5

OOC:


I can draw up a port of Effigy master to pathfinder, Admantine Entertainment has a Warlock ish class called warlock,  Vigilante Class has a archetype call warlock you might find creative and could fit with a 'man in the iron mask' image if that is your twist here.

 Though the summoner and it's archetypes could fit your bill easily enough, or the witch in a pinch. Note Pathfinder has Familiar archetypes, of which the figment one may be of interest to you for adaptability.

http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/thaumaturge
http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/symbiat


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If we are doing 2 with the option to expand to 6 players later, we could each have a Geography/Social studies thread that expands as we go and can be reference providing a degree of seperation, but I would prefer one source as I trust both of us not to meta-game info we don't have access to. I'd generally like to start knowing basic current events over the last year or so, and high profile events over the last 50 years.

What kind of goverment(s) are around and how many.

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This message was last edited by the player at 20:30, Sat 02 Feb 2019.
Tomo
player, 3 posts
Sat 2 Feb 2019
at 20:47
  • msg #6

OOC:

In reply to Irfan (msg # 5):

I am going for this: https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1442057

If that helps
Irfan
player, 14 posts
Scholar, Spheres of Might
Tue 5 Feb 2019
at 06:56
  • msg #7

OOC:



High ammounts of wound points are a good thing? Counterintuitive but ok.

Vigor is like hit points, from class/hit dice. Normal attacks start here.

Wounds are from stats, and represents constitution. critical hits, excess vigor damage, and negative energy can go here.

No penalty for taking vigor damage, but taking wound damage can kill you quickly, more so with lower constitution scores.

Vigor is healed as normal or completly overnight. Wounds are healed 1 per healing dice or night, bedrest can restore your level worth of wounds.

Rest is required to heal overnight similarly to caster's preparing spells.

Your wound limit doesn't increase much, but your vigor pool will with levels.

-------------------------------
May i suggest half your hit dice with a modifier of +1(1d6, 1d8), +2(1d10), or +3 (1d12) instead of random vigor points

or 1d2+1(d4), 1d4+1(d6), 1d6+1(d8), 1d8+2(d10), 1d8+3(d12)

Or just the ability not to roll a certain number or below by rerolling. 1 (d4), 2(d6), 3 (d8), 4(d10), 6 (d12)

Yes i do realize i weighted d12 a bit higher.
Irfan
player, 15 posts
Scholar, Spheres of Might
Tue 5 Feb 2019
at 07:36
  • msg #8

OOC:

d20 modern's wound system is more robust, basically the same, but uses negative wounds (0 wounds is bloodied, negative woinds are dying.)

http://gamingitforward.blogspo...ty-ie-vigor.html?m=1

Touch attacks affect through vigor, so contact poisons, most spells.

Additional effects on hit require wounds, None touch attack effects, injury poisons.

Criticals apply wounds through vigor and suprise round (first flat footed attack) automatically threaten.

Bleed damage attacks should cause the bloodied condition early and stack with it(loosing 1 wound every round you act, 2 if your below wound threshhold)
Bleed damage greater then 1, can stack up to the ammount bleed inflicted or 6 if 1d6. 2d6 bleed causes 2 wounds and stacks up to 12.

Magic healing negates most bleed, as does first aid heal skill.


Should sneak attacks get a critical bonus threat?

Wounds and vigor negates the need for Laying waste by applying wounds through critical.

Character effects like stunning fist, should they be triggerable on a critical hit since vigor normally negates them, or is hitting vigor enough.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:56, Tue 05 Feb 2019.
GM
GM, 93 posts
Tue 5 Feb 2019
at 17:58
  • msg #9

OOC:

How is having a high amount of wound points counterintuitive? It means you can take more punishment before dying.

Vigor is like normal HP, Wound points is just another word for negative HP, so anything that normally applies and happens with normal and negative HP pretty much happens with vigor and Wounds as well.

Each time vigor drops by 1/4 you suffer a -1 penalty to atk, checks and caster level. The same applies to Wounds, except you also become disabled and/or dying when it drops below half, plus there are a lot fewer wound points (after lvl 2 at least) than vigor points so if someone bypasses your vigor and damages your wound points directly you are much more likely to gain penalties.

Example: John the mage has 120 vigor and 16 wounds. Each time he loses 30 vigor and/or 4 wounds he takes penalties. During a fight he gets hit with a weapon attack that has a x4 critical multiplier and takes 15 vigor damage and 4 wounds damage. This means he now has a -1 penalty on all those rolls and checks because his wounds are below 1/4 even though his vigor isn't below 1/4. Later he takes 15 more vigor damage. Now he has a -2 penalty because both his vigor and wounds are below 1/4. Later in the battle he takes another 30 vigor and 4 wounds damage. Now he has a -4 penalty because both his vigor and wounds are below half, AND he's disabled and has to make a constitution check to remain conscious (because he's dying), and will take more wounds damage if he performs strenious actions.

Vigor represents state of mind (cool under pressure) and light damage such as bruises, stress fractures, minor cuts or punctures/bleeding to non vital stuff (like muscles), so a light rest and a chance to collect yourself will replenish that. Wounds are more serious stuff, like broken bones, punctured lungs, damage to vital organs in general, bleeding from major blood vessals like a jugilar, therefor I'm ganna use the same rules that apply to recovering ability damage (or was it negative levels?) apply to wounds as well. This means a constitution check after a long rest. Naturally, this means the more damaged you are the harder it will be to heal naturally and a really poor roll could even make it worse (due to infected wounds or hemoraging I suspect. This will make propper care crucial, just like in real life (hence the increased importance of the heal skill inspite of magical healing).


If you look at the retaining rules, there's a section that says you can use training to increase your HP (or in this case vigor) to its maximum limit as per HD. Meaning if you get to roll a 1d12 on a level up, but only roll a 4, you are allowed to use "retraining" to increase you maximum HP by another 8 (but no more than that because 12 is your maximum potential.

So no, there will be no mods or rerolls or averages. If the dice gods don't favor you then just flip them off and compensate your bad luck in life with hard work.

As I said before, Vigor damage doesn't necessarily means you came out unscaved, it just means it's not that bad. So normal bleeding and poison (regardless whether contact or injury or whatever) and DR and ect... works just as normal (damaging or preventing damage to vigor but otherwise having no bearing on Wounds). Only effects that directly damage the Constitution ability score itself such as constitution bleeding (not to be confused with normal bleeding), cerain poisons and spells (and critical hits of course) bypass vigor and damage wounds directly. Things that do apply to critical hits (such as the armor enchantment "Fortify") can interfere with Wound damage.

Once vigor becomes 0 then its open season on Wounds, meaning they're just like normal HP/vigor. If a normal attack does 10 damage, you take 10 damage to wounds, a normal 1d6 bleeding damage causes 1d6 damage to wounds every round. If you have DR 5 and someone hits you for 8 damage, you take 3 wounds of damage, and so on...

Creatures with no constitution have no wound points, just plain ol' HP (or just vigor if you prefer that term) and everything that goes with it (such as no threshold penalties). No need to unnecessarily complicate things.

If hit by a stunning fist you are stunned. Vigor does not negate anything, it's just another word for normal HP.

As stated in the character creation, precision damage can bypass vigor in the same way negative energy damage bypasses it. Sneak attack is precision damage.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:03, Tue 05 Feb 2019.
Irfan
player, 16 posts
Scholar, Spheres of Might
Tue 5 Feb 2019
at 18:50
  • msg #10

OOC:

It's counter-intuitive in how it's applied mathmatically.

We went from a system with negative hit points representing bleeding to death and being staggered, to one where 1/2 wounds represents the same think.

1/2 Wounds with death at 0 wound points left VS dying opposed to -1 wounds and dying when your negative wounds = your con score.  30->15->0  = 15->0->|-15|

I can adjust easy enough.
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I didn't look hard at the training rules, that will cover my I don't to be stuck with 1 hit point per die fear.

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Complete Vigor/Hitpoint transparency will work for me, Don't see any problems with damage thresholds and skill checks.

I will Visualize vigor as light bruises, light cuts, other minor damage largely negated by armor/shields/weapons parries/body positioning, and wounds as solid blows. Enough to let poison in the blood, but not enough to be important unless another effect like bleeding is applied to the hit.

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Flaws and drawbacks: Each character should have one glaring weakness or situation they are unable to function in. Irfan has curiosity as a weakness, specifically unusual experiences or sensations.

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Precision damage sources become very dangerous dealing hit points worth of wounds and may require adjustment as we go on since sneak attack scales with levels but wound points don't. One lv6 TWF rogue can take down most lv 20 character with 2 well placed flanking hit. I'm not opposed to sneak attack dealing wound damage, but perhaps they should do wound damage based on the dice rolled instead of the number on the die.

Adjustment: Xd6 sneak attack deals Xd6-X vigor damage(or wounds if out of vigor) but deals X wound damage regardless of the damage roll? Most other Sources of precision damage apply 1d6 or a flat bonus (favored enemy, swashbuckler level's  worth) and can be applied rapidly. Perhaps they can follow a similar format penetrating vigor to deal a fixed point of wound damage that are subtracted from the vigor damage they do at 1, 7, and 13 damage respectively?
This message was last edited by the player at 19:06, Tue 05 Feb 2019.
GM
GM, 94 posts
Wed 6 Feb 2019
at 02:36
  • msg #11

OOC:

According to paizo, negative energy damages wounds directly ether by 1 wound per damage die or 1 wound per 10 points of negative damage if it's not dice related.

quote:
One lv6 TWF rogue can take down most lv 20 character with 2 well placed flanking hit
.
No he can't. Each hit would do 3 wounds each (because his sneak attack bonus is 3d6) however I see your point. When in doubt like this I turn to the spirit of the rules rather than the word. "Sneak" attack by its nature implies unaware/unseen/unexpected, and those who can make them (a rogue) is always portrayed as the stealthy, unseen, overlooked threat, a person that fights dirty/without honor who just wants to get the job done by hitting where it hurts.

So by that logic, a sneak attack that damages wounds directly can only be performed when attacking an enemy that isn't aware of you (meaning when you attack by breaking stealth, and when using the vital strike feat because VITAL strike duh) rather than when just flanking or feinting or invisible.

Alternatively, we can have the same rules that apply for flat precision damage apply to dice roll related precision damage. Meaning, we can have sneak attack do 1 wound per 10 points of precision damage instead of 1 per damage die. That should decrease the amount of wounds each attack does by about 60~70% unless he rolls really lucky or invests in rogue talents that boost the damage of sneak attack.
Irfan
player, 17 posts
Scholar, Spheres of Might
Wed 6 Feb 2019
at 04:24
  • msg #12

OOC:

Lets not Call Precision damage out as dealing wound damage, but lets call the sneak attack sub-type of precision damage out as doing this, A class feature buff to rogue classes.

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I was afraid you mean Xd6 wound damage for all sneak attacks, 2 3d6's alone could take out someone with 18 con on perfect rolls with that thinking. My bad.

Sneak attacks doing wounds is thematic, but rogues depend on and struggle to apply Sneak attacks to deal vigor damage in most situations.

Removing the vigor damage(completely) from Sneak attacks seems wrong and weakens the rogue considerably.
Dealing full sneak attack to wounds is wrong and makes it too powerful.
1d6-1 damage +1 wound or 1d6 damage +1 wound Sneak attack seem the best of both worlds and both represent a buff to the rogue classes.

I guess by RAI player would have the choice of dealing vigor damage or converting his d6s directly to a wound each when sneak attacking, the same as healing or damaging with positive/negative energy which could be a small buff.

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Surprise rounds are separate and could involve anyone dealing (weapon) damage directly to wounds, but only allowing rogues to apply their full sneak attack to flatfooted targets wounds during a suprise round(once per target) here gives them tactical advantage over most classes. Usually enough to reach wound threshold with a single rogue, but not enough to kill a target outright with wound damage for many levels. Remember outside of rare feats and abilities you are limited to a standard or move action in a surprise round.

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Critical hits, similar in nature to sneak attacks deal a few wounds directly based on the weapon modifiers. Which makes having Laying waste less important, since a few wounds are big deal in character and game.

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Off topic:
Vital strike is used more to cut things with DR or Hardness, or allow you move and attack without losing all your full attack power. It's like a swordsman forgoing extra swings to make a single solid attack, then aiming at weak points. It's a testiment of a skilled warrior.
GM
GM, 95 posts
Wed 6 Feb 2019
at 04:52
  • msg #13

OOC:

There are other ways to deal precisions than just sneak attack.

When doing negative damage you have to choose whether to do vigor damage OR wound damage. The same applies to precision damage. And yeah, it is powerful, that's why I wanted to limit it to when breaking stealth only (or using Vital strike + normal sneak attack).

Laying waste has unique effects than just straight up penalties.

I know what the point of Vital strike was in core Paizo, but 3rd party feats blow it out of the water. In fact even other paizo feats blow it out of the water (like Penetrating strike and many shor). Not to mention vital strike was meant to compensate for the iterative attack penalty, but since we removed that vital strike loses even more point.
Irfan
player, 18 posts
Scholar, Spheres of Might
Wed 6 Feb 2019
at 05:40
  • msg #14

OOC:

Well that solves any issues i have, or can see. 10 flat precision damage is hard to get so probably won't be seen till late levels.

How about just allowing Vital strike seed feat for free to rogues, and letting them get their sneak attack damage in while using it. It limits them to 1 attack, but ensures they can atleast get sneak attack each round. When they can catch a target off-guard they can sneak attack as normal. *since they have no iterative attacks before 6, no weapon damage increase.
Irfan
player, 19 posts
Scholar, Spheres of Might
Wed 6 Feb 2019
at 07:00
  • msg #15

OOC:

The Shaky Alliance
  The Ironian Theocracy (by far the largest of the 3)
  The Grasslands
  The Wingheld Kingdom (the smallest)

         Vs
Invaders from the West
  Kwon-Yuu Reagency

The war is ongoing but has taken a form of stand-offish warfare? Kwon Reagency seems to be sure of their victory and has chosen not to press the issue as the they consolidate their hold on conquered land (mostly from the Ironians) and they feel victory is inevitable so why corner their enemies?

Ironian is glad the threat has slowed down and used the threat Kwon-Yuu poses to gain aide of the Grasslands and the Wingheld kingdoms despite no immediate either of their lands yet?

Tensions are high and forces are often split by nationality instead of working jointly along the warlines possibly letting old hatreds get in the way of combination tactics that may be more effective? The Alliance is threatening to crumble with so many different soldiers of different groups stationed along the Ironian border bored without threat from the Kwon-Yuu due to the treat?

Is conscripting going on? Irfan being from a presumably neutral city-state means he may have some protection from that at least early on till press gangs start or he gains influence/renown.

With soldiers and ?blessed? elsewhere, are bandits both inside and outside of towns increasing? Are most soldiers males or just is gender equal or inverted in at-least one country. Do any Countries have a volunteer soldier system?

Are there any coming of age rituals to test for affinity with exalted to find possible ?blessed? that could be of use to the kingpriest?

Immediately I see Irfan having a casual interest in historical legends and their regional differences, and a interest in things that could prove or disprove them. I imagine most of the remoter locals have a better grasp on history then constantly rewritting priest king's libraries.

----------------------------------------------

A Scribe's Wandering
Where to go, What to eat, Sight to see and Stories to hear

A Scribes's Wandering abridged.
Where and What to Drink or not to Drink
GM
GM, 96 posts
Wed 6 Feb 2019
at 17:14
  • msg #16

OOC:

Well...Combat Stamina is free for trained full bab classes, sooo might as well give rogues some love. However, since Vital strike can naturally do 1 wound damage (gatta let the other classes have a chance at direct wound damage) if a rogue wants to use vigor strike with sneak attack to cause 1 wound per damage die instead of 1 per flat 10 precision, they have to also do it to an enemy that's unaware of them. This condition can be lessened on assassins to just vital strike + normal sneak attack conditions.


The invaders from the East are the Kwon Reagency.

I'll have to elaborate on the rest later cuz it's...complicated. Not to mention there's only so much an average Joe can know before the rest becomes guesswork and speculation (information is a precious commodity in medival times).
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:40, Wed 06 Feb 2019.
Irfan
player, 20 posts
Scholar, Spheres of Might
Thu 7 Feb 2019
at 03:34
  • msg #17

OOC:


Tomo's stated wanting to run:

Warlock 12/Effigy Master 5/Chamelion 2/ Hellfire Warlock 1

Warlock is surprisingly close to pathfinder format, but may require access to hexes via invocation and/or expanded invocations. Witch and Hexblade could be viable starting points for a conversion utilizing the hex treat to mimic invocations, possibly making eldritch blast a scaling hex it'self.

Pool Ray Magus arcana is a decent starting point for eldritch blast.

Chameleon prestige class probably is fine on a direct port to pathfinder.

Effigy Master is unique and would also port fairly well to Pathfinder.

Hellfire warlock is cheesy and could be replaced with a invocation/hex slot ability.
GM
GM, 97 posts
Thu 7 Feb 2019
at 10:54
  • msg #18

OOC:

How about we start at lvl 1 and go from there? Prestiege classes don't just happen out of thin air after all. And even normal classes have some cultural, geographical, historical and traditional implications. What if to become a Chameleon he has to gain the trust of a specific group that's located in a specific part of the world and the player doesn't meet them in-game by the time he's lvl 18 or whatever level he hoped he'd be at the time?

I'm also ganna need links to those classes if there aren't any pathfinder equivalents (although I'm pretty sure there are 2 different 3pp Warlock classes already).

BTW, I made a huge breakthrough in the worldbuilding yesterday. The compilation is coming along fine, although I am planning from making it an East vs West thing to a North Vs South. I kinda already did the east west thing in the last game.
Irfan
player, 21 posts
Scholar, Spheres of Might
Thu 7 Feb 2019
at 15:52
  • msg #19

OOC:


https://www.realmshelps.net/ch...ernate/warlock.shtml

https://www.realmshelps.net/magic/warlock-inv.shtml

craft/use anything magical, eldritch blast, and at will spells like abilities are it's core.


The closest pathfinder warlock is sadly the vigilante archetype.

Adamant's warlock is odd but arguably more powerful eldritch blasts, if you want unlimited fireballs attacks.

https://dndtools.net/classes/effigy-master/

https://dndtools.net/classes/chameleon/
Irfan
player, 22 posts
Scholar, Spheres of Might
Thu 7 Feb 2019
at 15:56
  • msg #20

OOC:


2 lesser factions + 1 wounded and exhausted greater faction. All uneasily foght a common enemy.

A giant Seemingly unified superior force invading, ripe for the coop or rebellion while the main forces are away.

A sudden developement in the seas cutting off 98% of indformation and supplies to the invaders.

splimter faction
Irfan
player, 23 posts
Scholar, Spheres of Might
Thu 7 Feb 2019
at 16:18
  • msg #21

OOC:

2 lesser factions + 1 wounded and exhausted greater faction. All uneasily foght a common enemy.

A giant Seemingly unified superior force invading, ripe for the coop or rebellion while the main forces are away.

A sudden developement in the seas cutting off 98% of indformation and supplies to the invaders.

Sky ruins long dormant reawaken in a war mode due to exploration.

Splinter faction as a forced kingpriest empire only a few generations old starts a battle for heir among the conquered nations.

A mad king losing it(faith in humanity?) and using his blessing to sorch earth a large region.


Protect the heir plotline as wingshield undergoes a internal "mirror mirror, whose the most rightous in all the land."

Rogue/wild dormamt exalted being disturb and rampaging in the sea.

Sunken or aquatic Underwater kingdom. The idea of a natural or magically created airy water spell near a volcanic source has been rolling around in my head for a while. A caldara with a seemingly boiling salt water lake, roads, signs of people but no buildings anywhere. Everyone assumes the volcano wiped them out but really it was an aquatic threat , that left tgeir kingdom abandoned under the lake.

Cult dedicate to keeping ancient cities hidden to prevent the wrath of divine being/mother nature herself.

--------------------------

There are a submarine and glider knack i can take storywise around 6th level. Leaning towards lightning rod knack at lv1 and salve (healing) around 3.


Ancient legends in the mountains and coasts of a sky and sea kingdom lost to war or smited. Invaders could be more aware(retained more knowledge) of this and invaded in search of these lost places.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe  get a Martial tradition, but very few of the ones listed appeal to me.
Staff Master: Does almost nothing for me.
Mechanic: Focuses on Cross bows but gives me Traps and sounds cool.
Daring Scholar: Grants me 3 extra talents since  have both spheres. I feel this is too much.

I'll leave my Martial tradition choice up to you, with suggestions for fast draw and staff mastery equipment talents to allow me to draw and use my alchemical formulae in combat with a staff.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:34, Thu 07 Feb 2019.
GM
GM, 98 posts
Fri 8 Feb 2019
at 02:54
  • msg #22

OOC:

You're throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks, aren't ya?
Irfan
player, 26 posts
Scholar, Spheres of Might
Fri 8 Feb 2019
at 03:51
  • msg #23

OOC:

The Sample Scholar on the spheres website gets martial tradition on top of Problem solver(which looks like a martial tradition to me). So i probably get one.

Actually really torn about which martial tradition to take, so i'd rather get a setting specific one then choose, could help me settle in lore wise and having a few mistakes to retrain later is flavorful.

I'm over budget gold wise at the moment 5d6 X 10 = 300, I'm sitting closer to 330 but 60(+2) of that is quality wine I'm (hoping to) planning to turn a profit at the next town with, so i could easily fix that, not to mention excess outfits. I do get one outfit and Healer's Kit for free so those also bring me under budget.

Cosmetic Material choices: (Felt natural, don't know my starting region's climate/reasources)
I've Choose Sheepskin for my Water skin
Gourd for my Canteen
Bee's wax For my candles
Ash For my staff
Has a fertile greece region theme, but as a trade town those could me common even if not local.

I Choose Parade armor, mostly on a whim, any chance it can be none nation denominating or should I got back to leather if i don't want to represent?

May want to look at Alchemy sphere's Salve talent, since i get one at first level, it's that or Bottled lighting formulae and that has a higher craft dc.

I can spend 30 minutes preparing a healing potion for free, but it expires after 24 hours, and is only good 4 times a day per person.

Healing tends to be highly valued in your game so we might want to adjust the individual use rate once per person instead of once+int at lv 1.

As i get reliable access to alchemy equipmemt that goes down to 15 minutes prepare and higher levels i can prepare multiple.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:41, Fri 08 Feb 2019.
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