An otherworldly bar where the mysterious forces behind the shaping of the world gather. Salut!

Guess I'll go ahead and be the first to say hey.

Hi!  This will be my first game done in this way, but hope to have fun discovering Arathia with everyone.

Hey everyone!
Yeah, for me it's also the first game where you have so much input as a player. I like it, and I'm excited to discover this world you all.

Thank you for the kind words! Also, if you didn't know, I added a map!

Greetings everyone,

I'm really excited to get started. This should be a blast.

Looking good. Is that a volcano next to Last Haven?

Before I post things about my character, how much do we all want to know OOC about each other that our characters wouldn't already know?

Since we're helping shape the world with our backstories, I imagine this is one of those times where full disclosure is preferred so that we can build off of one another so long as we can keep player knowledge and character knowledge properly separated.

Thoughts?

I was wondering about that as well. Perhaps only show world information that is more commonly known?
The GM can then slowly reveal the 'unknown information' throughout the story. I think it's easier for one person to 'pretend' not knowing, than six. Plus, discovery is fun.

Certain truths can be drawn from Backgrounds.  For example, someone might say:
We should got to Schwarzheim.  Always things to do there.

Then someone else might add:
Yeah richest town this side of the Krieg.  Always people willing to pay a king's price for adventurers with the right skills.

Only to be told OOC:
Uh actually its in my background that its the poorest city in the world, a dumping ground for homeless and orphans and that everyone knows it.

That's just an extreme example to illustrate the point.  I don't think we can conjure up (at least major) things without input...can we?

But I understand why people would like to keep their stories to themselves.  Especially if you have dark secrets or whatever.  So as long as we remember to elaborate in our posts or add OOC comments for explanation, I think it should be fine too keep stories hidden.

(I have no qualms that I have already shared mine, if no one else wants to share theirs).

Speaking of backgrounds, I have a question for our fair DM

Fariel is a member of the Shadow-kin, a sort of inherited position of the Silver Elves who live within Sigheim (long story), sort of like urban scouts/city rangers/spies for the clan.

I don't think any existing background packages really do this justice, so I was wondering if I had permission to use the Players Handbook rules for creating a custom background?

I asked the GM the same thing and got the green light.

awesome!

Also, are there any changes to classes that we should know about, to reflect the setting?

In reply to Griswold Ortmann (msg # 10):

I've mapped out the bigger places in the world but I'm still filling out the details. Just so long as you don't spontaneously add a world altering background event or add a town that rivals a major city, you should be fine. I'll try my best to give you as much detail as possible on places that I describe to you.

As for backgrounds, they have already been approved for customization. Just keep it within reason and we shouldn't have a problem.

I'm still working on that, but it shouldn't affect the proposed classes thus far.

Here's what I'm thinking for a background

for context, the Kal-Helas are a clan of Silver-elves that swore fealty to Krieghold, and live primarily in Sigheim.


Background: Shadow-kin
You are one of the shadow-kin, the eyes and ears of the Kal-Helas. Like the rangers of the more traditional clans of Silver elves, you act as a scout and a trailblazer for your people. Unlike your predecessors, however, you map, defend, and chart the urban landscape, keeping your eyes and ears out for trouble and any...useful information.

DETAILS:
-gain proficiency in Investigate and Persuasion
-Gain Disguise Kit and harp proficiency
- gain a signet ring with the Kal-Helas crest on it, a non-descript cloak, a disguise kit, and a cheap dagger.
Background Feature: Eyes Everywhere: The Kal-Helas, despite living almost exsclusively in Sigheim, have informants in a few other cities in the empire. by displaying your signet ring and asking around, you can gain access to the information network's used by the Shadowkin whenever you are in a Krieghold city.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:17, Fri 23 Dec 2016.

Hey folks, glad to be on board.

In reply to Fariel Kriegborn (msg # 16):

Sounds good. Do note that most background offer 2 tool/kit/instrument proficiencies or languages. So you'd have one more.

I'll look at character progress tonight. How is everybody coming along?

I have decided that, in the spirit of Christmas, I should come bearing gifts. You may choose one of the following.

-Have one of your weapons silvered
-Obtain a riding horse with saddle and saddlebags
-Garner 50gp, cash money

As another idea, I think I will have a contest at regular intervals and the winner will get a prize of some sort. So, the first contest is a writing exercise:

Prompt: What is the origin of the Krieghold motto "I was born without claws, without fangs, without scales; so I forged them in fire and crafted them of steel"?

Well, thank you kindly!

I'm a little torn between all three options.  The horse makes most sense for Griswold's background, but I really don't like leaving animals behind when entering dungeons.  To face who knows what.  50gp would be great.  I could purchase a lute straight off then.  Otherwise, the silvered weapon does suit his flashy show-off personality.

Whatever, when in doubt, default to what makes the most rp sense.  The horse it is!




Knights and dragonslaying go hand in hand:

Towering beautiful and splendid, a kingly knight trots out of the morning mist.  His fiercely loyal warhorse whinnying with pride.  Their embellished plate, crafted by the land's best smiths, shimmering in the early light.  He carries the symbol of his Order, embellished upon a shield of the toughest steel, whilst little flags flutter festively from the tip of an upright lance.

Only it is not mist that covers the ground.  Not the spring's dawn reflected in his visor. The clouds are smoke.  The light, fire.  He's ridden far to find their source.  Left his  home amidst tearful cheers of hope and fear.  Travelled across plain and river.  Through forest and valley.  Over hill and mountain.  And today he has it.  Today the hunter finally becomes the hunted.

With a kick the trusty mount lurches forward.  Spurred into action.  It's mighty hooves, driven by huge sinewy muscles, hammer the ground relentlessly.  Thunderously.

The charge is swift and true.  The Knight's lance lowered, tip perfectly stable.  And out of the ugly black fog  Two serpent-like red eyes, each the size of a man's head, open.  Man and beast and monster crash together like waves upon a cliff.  Flames, burning with the fury of a hundred fireballs, melt steel to flesh, flesh to bone.  Acrid smoke, thicker than water, tears throat.  Ravages lungs.  Scours eyes.  And somehow, amongst this horrendous conflagration, a silvered tip hits home.

A deafening screeching roar, of fury hate and pain sends birds scattering from their treetop homes a hundred miles away.  And then...nothing.  All is still.  All is silent.  Eventually the acrid charcoal cloud dissipates.  Three bodies emerge: one a man, charred beyond recognition; the second, a mutilated beast, faithful to the end; and the last, their quarry, scaled and humongous, pierced to the hilt by a mortal weapon.

Whether true or not, likely highly romanticised, I imagine there being quite a few tales in Krieghold Knights of yore killing dragons.  This supposedly recounting the tale of the first a man was able to kill a dragon.  One that had been terrorising them for hundreds of years.


Sorry if its bad and there's bound to be numerous mistakes.  I don't consider myself a particularly good author, But hopefully its not too awful.

I sent my to you via PM, DM. is that ok?

That's fine. If it wins the contest, I'll post it.

You should buy a lute, Griswold. I was going to give Eli a musical instrument and they could do duets! Haha

First post of IC is created and waiting. Let me know if you need any help with your characters. I'm hoping we can have them all crunched out and ready by the new year and get started.

Is the post up and I just can't see it? Or do you mean waiting in the sense of waiting to be posted?

Either way is cool of course I just wanted to make sure RPOL was not betraying me in some way haha

It is waiting, your just not in the right group yet :)

Merry Christmas ^^

I hope everyone had a very merry Christmas, if you celebrated it, and a very happy holidays in any case.

How is everyone coming on thier characters? I'm going to have to start reviewing them soon. If there is a question I haven't answered, let me know. It might have gotten lost in the holiday shuffle.

I've just got to edit my character sheet to include a couple small purchases with my Christmas bonus gold. Other than that, I'm ready to roll.

Happy holidays everyone!
I also just have to add he last details to the sheet, but it's mostly done.

Thread is up for initial character posts.

Also, I updated the common knowledge thread to include Kriegian, the language of the gentry and military of Krieghold.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Happy New Year everyone!

Happy new year!

Idd - welcome to 2017!

I hope everyone had a good time. I will be looking for final submissions for characters today. Please have them in so that we can get the ball rolling. I don't want this game to stall waiting for it to start.

I will be making the first post for everyone IC in a few hours. All final submission are due 8am PST. Most of you have done well in getting those to me. If you do not have your sheet locked out yet and have finished, let me know and I will lock it. You will then be good to go. Those that do not will get a warning, followed by in-game penalties for continued tardiness. If a week has gone by from then and I do not have a final sheet from you, you will be ejected from the game.

I understand this might seem extreme, but I need solid participation from everyone for this game to work. Wallflowers need not apply, so to speak. I will also post formalized rules for this game, expanding upon the provisions I asked for in the RTJ.

I should be ready to roll, GM!

Er...I re-read the post I made earlier.  It came across as somewhat sinister when it wasn't meant to be!  I have amended it slightly to (hopefully) make it a bit more obvious that Griswold was helping the man rather than mugging him!

I don't have spells or rechargeable abilities just yet, but I figured I would use that space to keep track of items/equipment with limited uses since I can't actively edit them on my character sheet.

Note: That is not a comprehensive list of all he carries. It is only for the purposes of keeping track of things that can't be reused indefinitely.

That seems smart.  So I'll go ahead and also update for my post for torches, rations and bolts.

Truthfully, I think that I just felt left out with no spells or abilities to post there.

Update coming in the next 24hrs

If anybody was curious about what an ogre looks like, just refer to Edward the Ogre from Hansel and Gretel: Witch Hunters.

Did I frighten people off?

Not frightened off. Just hard-pressed to find time to sit down and post thus week. Sorry about that.

No worries. I just want to make sure no one has any hold ups with the situation.

I'll try and get a post up today.

If anybody wants a clarification or to make a roll before I post, now would be a good time.

Just a calirification: At their current location (within the inn) Brother Sul and Fariel do not see nor hear what's going on in the carnival right?

That is correct. The carnival is slightly outside of town and away from too many buildings.

Sorry guys, work keeping me from posting tonight. Update for sure tomorrow.

In reply to GM (msg # 53):

sorry for the delay, my internet connection has been less than great as of late

I'll have a post up sometime tonight.

The dice roller was kind to me on that one. *phew*

And now we wait.

This will either turn out well-ish or Griswold and I will be making new characters shortly. Haha

Flying home from vacation. I'll have a post up today or early tomorrow.

Sul, the order you belong to, is it well known?

The group is meeting each other! Yay!

Updates coming tomorrow.

OK. I don't really have anything constructive to add until we follow the Dragoon into his tent.

Post is up and ready.

Also, It has been a month and time to declare the winner of the writing contest!

Kharash!

It was hard to decide a winner, so everyone will get an inspiration for the great stories.

Kharash, you may have one of the following:

-A Potion of Greater Healing
-Gem of Brightness(10 charges left)
-75 gp cash money

---

Next prompt will come at the end of the month.

Congratulations :)
This message was last edited by the player at 20:11, Tue 24 Jan 2017.

Thanks! :)
I'll take the gem.

Okay, some sad news. It seems RL has stolen Sigi from us. I have two options:

1. Replace her with another player

or

2. NPC her until she is able to come back or make her a permanent NPC if not

I don't know the circumstances of Sigi leaving so I don't know the likelihood of return.

That being said, it's still early enough to write Sigi out and replace with another character.

Its up to you, but it would be nice if she could return later.  If she wanted to, of course.

Sorry for the delay in updating, RL got me. Will post an update soon-ish.

For Sigi do whatever you think is best DM; my advice would be to retire the character as an NPC and advertise for a new player. D&D 5e is quite popular so you should have no trouble getting another player.

Oh and congrats Kharash on winning the writing contest!

It depends on how long she'll be gone, and what she wants to do herself. I don't know how many people are interested in taking over a complete character, but if someone is up for that, it's a good option. Though I don't think a different one would harm the game, no one has met Sigi's character IC yet.

Perhaps she could even come back as her own character at some later point in the game?

I've placed the call out but expect the RTJ applications to trickle in. Until then, I will NPC her.

I just realized that I never posted the winning submission for public viewing!

---

When asked about Krieghold’s motto, some will tell you it was created by the famous bard Björn Larsson, others will claim it was first spoken by Jarl Sig himself, while even others will have their own theories about its origin. One thing that everyone agrees on, however, is that it originated from the time Krieghold itself was born. Before Krieghold existed, the lands around the Krieg and Haverun used to be ruled by different clans, each with their own jarl. These clans had been waging war amongst each other for as long as people remembered, and it would’ve continued unchanged were it not for the arrival of a threat greater than ever before: a dragon.

It came from the east, terrorizing everything in its wake. The Haverun clans were the first to fall, as its people were preyed on and their towns were burned. As the dragon slowly traveled north along the Haverun, refugees started to pour into the other clans’ towns. Jarl Sig, whose clan occupied the region where the Haverun splits form the Krieg, called out to every other jarl in the land. The jarls met and for the first time in recorded history they were united to a common goal.

Every clan provided men and materials, each brought their specialties, and within weeks an army was formed. Warriors that were previously bashing in each other’s head, were now training side by side. Scouts continuously reported the dragon’s position and direction, and the jarls’ combined force prepared for the final battle. It was on the banks of the Krieg that the dragon and the army clashed. That fire met steel. The dragon arrived in the afternoon, and the battle lasted throughout the night. At last, in the early morning light it became clear that the people had emerged victorious. They had held the Krieg.

The combined effort had shown that the jarls and their people were not so different from each other, and that collaboration can be fruitful. Not long after their victory, the jarls joined in a union called the Krieghold. Jarl Sig was elected leader, and his town (Sigheim) became the capital. It is said that each jarl received an item made from one of the dragon’s teeth, and that even today these artifacts are passed down the original jarl’s bloodlines.

So, when asked about Krieghold’s motto, no one is sure who first said it. But everyone knows the story that preceded it. That through unified effort, we can be as mighty as a dragon.

Very cool!

So, are we paused until we can find a replacement player? I don't want to see this game die.

Update is coming today. I have a trio of interested players. One is a dwarf runesmith, one is a half-elf wizard, and the last looks like he wants to play a druid. I might have to adopt them all of the concept are good enough. Two of them have previously applied and were in the final running.

Bad form to double post, but this needs to be said. With one player gone for an indefinite amount of time and this game meaning loads to me, I will start enforcing posting rules.

I expected three times a week, but it looks like twice is more likely. That said, we have had several players log on but not post. You have three and a half hours to post a response or I will NPC you.

Yes, sorry, I will post tonight!

Update coming this afternoon

There is something I have been playing around with and decided that it would make a great contest for the month.

The contest is such:

If you were to score the current chapter, the events that happened, and each character, how would it sound?

Sorry for the long and cheesy post but one of Griswold's personality traits is that he compliments everyone and makes them feel wonderful (or at least tries to).

So, any suggestions or critiques for the game so far?

I'm enjoying myself so far. It'll be interesting to see how the dynamic of the group meshes.

It would appear that all the prospective players have dropped out or gone silent. Looks like a five person party for now

I'm enjoying it, I do believe some early action would help the PCs get to mesh together more and become more involved.

As for getting new players I don't think there will be any problems finding new players for a 5e game if/when needed; otherwise a 5 person party is ideal IMO. Too many PCs results in chaos too often.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:25, Fri 10 Feb 2017.

In reply to Brother Sul (msg # 83):

I'm enjoying it so far! definitely looking forward to combat though.

Yeah its very cool.  Big thanks to Eli for making my life much more interesting!  I don't have any suggestions right now.

Got some busy RL days, hopefully can post tomorrow.

Yeah, in my experience there's always a lot of interest in 5e games. Did Sigi have any idea when (if) she'd be back though?

About the game, I'm really enjoying it. I like how you handled the separate groups, and the input we can give as players makes me feel invested in this world as well. Also, Eli and Griswold, the roleplay between the two of you has been a joy to read, very well done!

The only suggestion I have is about something that hasn't come up yet: combat. But I thought I'd bring it up now anyways. I've seen GMs use different ways of handling it here on rpol, and they all work, but I do have a personal favorite. It's as follows:
(1) GM rolls all initiatives, players' initiative is either separate or as a group, enemies are one initiative group.
(2) Players with a higher initiative than the enemies are able to post/act during the first round.
(3) The enemies' round occurs, and the 'end-of-turn-post' is posted as a summary of that turn.
(4) All players can now act, after which another 'end-of-turn-post' with the enemies' actions.
(5) Etc.

What this means is that a lot of time is saved by not having individual players roll for initiative. Plus, the enemies' turn is always last, so those players with an initiative lower than the enemies have the possibility of making decisions based on what the enemies have actually done this turn. In systems where everyone posts before knowing what the enemies will do, those players that act after the enemies are at a disadvantage as their actions are based on outdated knowledge. Regarding the initiative order, nothing actually changes this way (the lowest initiative character still acts just before the highest initiative character).

Additionally, I've seen systems where player initiative is followed precisely, or is waived as a group (in which the post order determines the execution of actions). But for this I don't have a preference, both work equally well.

This is just one of the many ways to handle combat, and if you, GM, have a personal favorite which you want to use, I will of course follow that. But I thought I'd throw this out there to see what you all think.

Thank you for the kind words. Combat is still being decided on how to be handled, but as far as the initiative question goes, I will give you this answer.

The enemy group will always go on initiative ten. Certain enemies, particularly fast ones, might go at 14 or 15, but that would be rare. My goal is to give a constant during combat that is easy to follow. Combat will likely go like this.

I, or a player in certain cases, calls for everyone to roll initiative.
Enemy group goes at 10. I post a setup for combat if I have not done so already.
Players post according to initiative. I will allow to a player to spend their initial round of combat doing nothing to attempt a re roll, to "size up" the enemy. However, ever player that does this also bumps the initiative of the enemy group by 1 as they do the same to you.
Combat continues until either side disengages completely or is wiped.

Please let me know if I am posting or rolling too much...I might be enjoying Griswold a little too much atm :P

It's fine. Your roll was good to start with. The landmarks you described are indeed known to many, minus the carnival, [Private to Griswold Ortmann: Your intuition reveals that the riddle may be a play on the myth that adventuring parties alway start in taverns, of which there is a legend that the first adventuring party started in The Dragon and Unicorn in Maypole.]

Super busy weekend over here. I'll have a post up tomorrow.

No luck on the roll, Kharash. Sorry!

Yeah I figured as much, haha!

About your post regarding initiative. That looks interesting, the possibility of assessing the enemy at the cost of initiative, and I think it'll work pretty well. But it was not the point I was trying to make. What I meant is not to change the initiative, but to change the moment of the end-of-round/DM resolution post.

Let's say there are 5 players (A, B, C, D, and E) and the monsters. Everyone has their own rolled (or fixed) initiative, and all actions happen according to that initiative. Let's say the players' initiative is all over the place, with the monsters in the middle.

This is what it would normally look like:
(round 1) A, B, C, Monsters, D, E
- DM Resolution
(Round 2) A, B, C, Monsters, D, E
- DM Resolution
(round 3) A, B, C, Monsters, D, E
- DM Resolution

However, in this way player D and E are always posting their actions before the monsters have acted. Perhaps player D posted he was going to attack the monsters, but didn't know that one of his allies would be knocked unconscious on the monsters' turn. Player D would maybe want to use a heal on that ally, but couldn't foresee that happening. The players behind the monsters in the initiative order are always lagging behind in this case.

The thing I'm talking about simply changes the moment of the 'DM resolution':
(Round 1) A, B, C, Monsters
- DM Resolution
(Round 1) D, E (Round 2) A, B, C, Monsters
- DM Resolution
(round 2) D, E (round 3) A, B, C, Monsters
- DM Resolution

This way all players are up to date on what the monsters do, and can act accordingly.

Note that I'm not criticizing you or your game in any way. This is just something I've had a good experience with when playing play-by-post, and thought I'd share it. You can do with it what you want :)

I am actually thinking of doing the second way. It makes the most sense with how I plan on working initiative.

Is it possible to find the location that we need in the riddle?

Yes, although a few good rolls have help tremendously. Sorry, I've been sick the last few days. Update coming tomorrow if you all have decided on a course of action.

Don't fret over that 11. Eli will be there to swoop in and recover the fumble when she shuts Griswold down. ;-)

Oh, I'm going to enjoy answering Kharash's question when I get home from work this evening. *grin*

By the way Eli you can assume Sul has raised a cup in return to you also once he gets a cup in hand. Should have put that in my post...:P

I was planning on updating today, but the site being down stopped that. Tomorrow it is.

...and now we play the waiting game...

If it's not clear OOC by now, one of Eli's character traits is that he'll make stuff up for the sake of telling a good story.

Let's see just how much of that was believable. I can just picture it now. Griswold accidentally lets a small burp out after eating and the others quietly glance at each other awkwardly as they wonder if that's repressed Goblin tendency. Haha
This message was last edited by the player at 05:22, Tue 21 Feb 2017.

Such an imagination!  Though you might want to roll deceive with that - at disadvantage :P

Great post! I will update further shortly. You might have another group member here shortly!

Also, the game map has been updated.

Oh? Are we going to potentially adding a new character or is a new player taking over for the one who had to step away?

I was telling a friend of mine IRL about the story Eli told and came to a realization as I said the names aloud. Griswold actually sounds like it could be a Goblin's name. Hahaha ;-) Sorry Gris, but it's true.

Hmm, yeah, I see that :)

Good story Eli :)

In reply to Eli Reiner (msg # 103):

A new character. Still working on the creation process with him.

I am sorry to say that Fariel has left the game. I will be working on the replacement player today. Looks like you guys might be stuck as a 5-man band.

Wrenn, I'm assuming?

That just might be the one. *shiftyeyes*

Enjoy the introduction of your newest party member.

Wrenn- Good luck explaining that one!
This message had punctuation tweaked by the GM at 00:10, Tue 28 Feb 2017.

Welcome to the party, Wrenn!  Its unfortunate that you apparently killed the only woman in the group during your arrival.  Unfortunate for you that is!

*Dun dun dun!*

Welcome Wrenn!

Wrenn can't miss a lady he never saw in the first place. ;)

Thanks for the welcome, guys.

I was hoping to get a meaningful post in this evening, but I'm exhausted (long day). I'll update Eli tomorrow.

Can I get a perception check from everyone?

I'm running late to work, so I don't have time to write a post right now, but:

07:36, Today: Wrenn Muernig rolled 13 using 1d20.  Perception.

Here's mine:
13:38, Today: Griswold Ortmann rolled 14 using 1d20-1.  Perception.

08:49, Today: Eli Reiner rolled 22 using 1d20+2 ((20)).

Wonder if I passed

15:41, Today: Kharash rolled 14 using 1d20+1.  Perception.

22 on Perception for Sul.

Thank you. Update coming in the next 24hrs. Can everyone hold off on posting until then?

Should we still hold for your update GM?

Nope. I posted what I needed to.

Also, if y'all ever feel like a scene is dragging, you can let me know and we will push forward.

I wanted to give other people a chance to actually say things. I'm fine RPing the intro some more, but I'm fine moving on to the next set of instructions too.

I don't think it's dragging, but I'm interested in hearing what the next task is. We can always RP more on the road as well.

Is everybody doing okay? I was waiting for a few more responses before I moved it on but it seems that life has caught up with everyone.

I'm good. Like I said, I was giving others a chance to jump in.

Eli has been gone for a couple of weeks now. I was hoping that that he would be back by now, but we have to move on. If you have anything else to say, do it today. I will update the scene tomorrow.

Sorry folks. Work has been killer. Hopefully update will come in the next couple of days.

Can I get a roll call. I want to know who is still here.

\o 'sup

Still here :)

Still here also, just been a bit busy @ my job the past few days

I'm here.

Solid. I will move us to the next day soon. Unless anybody has objections?

Sounds good!

Let's roll

On Thursday I'm taking a business trip that'll last at least through the weekend, possibly a little bit into next week. I should still have access to the site every day, but may be restricted to only posting in the evenings.

I think Griswold may have had too much to drink - he's seeing triple [posts]!

It won't let me delete the extras. Sometimes RPOL causes me too many headaches.

This trial looks exciting!

So, a game that I am in has been dying and many of the players are looking for a new game. We might have a few new players, maybe even a rival group!

Bring 'em on!

Sounds good :)

Well no accounting for bad rolls I guess :( Anything anyone can do to help Griswold (assuming you support his attempt to rile up the crowd) would be good.  Thanks :D

Welcome Brimir, our newest player!

An ogre?  Cool!  Welcome :D

Welcome Brimir! Entertaining character description :)

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate the opportunity to join the game; it was kind of you to accept another player (especially the GM).

I'm looking forward to playing; just trying to find my footing in the story as it stands. ;)

Oh, I completely forgot to clarify: Brimir is the ogre guard/servant who has been shadowing the Lady Inara earlier in this scene and at the inn. So the group's already had some interaction with him today and last night, albeit rather terse and businesslike.

Seemed an ideal place to step in, since the ogre was already there...

EDIT: Also, picking each one of you by name was made easier by Griswold shouting out introductions for each party member to the crowd moments ago. That's what prompted Brimir to check his list. ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 18:01, Sun 30 Apr 2017.

Oh, cool.  Thank you for the clarification :)

Is there a visible light source in the mirror-room?

Just ambient light. No visible source of life.

I forgot to ask, if you look in a mirror, make a perception or investigation based ability check.

Thanks GM.

And I appreciate that, having taken the option to avoid making an Intelligence-based roll at disadvantage, the dice-roller handed me the minimum possible roll I could have achieved had I opted to roll twice and take the lowest for Intelligence anyway.

For the record, Brimir is probably of a similar height to Kharash; he might be heavier, but ogres in this setting don't seem to be (quite) the 10' giants observed elsewhere. So at 6' tall Griswold could probably rub the top of the ogre's bald head for good luck without too much trouble, if he so wished.

We have lost Brother Sul. The party is in flux. I have two applicants interested, but it seems that you four will likely be the core group now. I figured it would take a few months for the game to level out.

@GM - Hopefully I don't need to make a perception for this information:  How many mirrors are there in the room?  Thanks!

Eight! Sorry for the omission.

Interesting puzzle. To prevent flooding the IC with questions, I'll ask them here.

Are the 'wrong' reflections the same in every mirror, or do they change between mirrors as well?

What are the different reflections?

What are the statues other than the knight, ogre and elf holding in their hands? And do they hold this item in their hand only in the reflection?

To answer your questions:

No, none of the reflections repeat in differences.

The reflections that do not match simply have the statues in slightly different positions and attire.

The demon holds a scimitar, the angel holds a glaive, the mage holds a staff, the priest has a holy symbol, and the woodland figure has a longsword. The items remain in the reflections

Nice work, team. I had the mirrors guessed (if indeed we are right), but for the life of me I couldn't figure out the rose answer.

I only realized because Griswold mentioned that this competition was about meeting a Rose. I had forgotten that small detail.

I'm going to update in 24hrs. Please have a plan in place by then.

I suggest we put the rose medallion in the knight's hands and see what happens. If nothing much, then touch the mirrors in order; if still nothing, then rearrange them.

Brimir is clearly inclined to start with the direct physical solution of rearranging the mirrors, however.

Personally, I have no idea. I'm basically an idiot when it comes to puzzles irl and never get the answers right (if you care, the spoiler section below has some of my random thoughts on the puzzle that probably miss the mark by a mile).  So, yeah, happy to go with whatever you guys want to do.

Only thing I will say is that I do feel like we are supposed to do something with all the items.  Seems too convenient that there are 8 mirrors, 8 statues and 8 medallions.  I've been trying my to come up with connections between all the things, but found nothing so far.

---

Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)

I've had a brief look at the Greek, Norse and Egyptian Gods to see if there was any correlation between the symbols on the medallions and the statues, but nothing jumped out at me.  I have also reviewed the information we have about Arathia and a couple of things came up:

Of the orders of knights in Krieghold, there are 7 most well known:
Rose, Spring, Quill, Dragon, Golden Thread, Ashen Order, Coin

I think at some point, the Emperor may also have been mentioned as being considered a knight, bringing the total to 8.  Though that may have just been musings between me and our awesome GM.


There are also 8 'common' races to Arathia:
Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halflings, Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, Half-Dwarf, Ogres

If we're talking about the kingdom, it maybe that each is represented, but I do not know how they correlate if that is the case.


Otherwise, if we just go with the statues and medallions, the pairings might be something like:
Knight > Rose
Mage > Book / Jester
Woodland figure > Unicorn
Ogre > Ship (?)
Elf > Unicorn/Eye
Priest > Quill
Demon > Jester
Angel > Scales/Eye

/shrug

There could be 8 directions on a compass: N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW

Could the order that the GM told us the information be important?
Words on the mirrors: (1) inspire, (2) the, (3) by, (4) lead, (5) kingdom, (6) example, (7) to, (8) entire
If I got it right, rearrange to: (4) lead (3) by (6) example (7) to (1) inspire (2) the (8) entire (5) Kingdom

Statues: (1) a knight in plate, (2) a mage in robes, (3) a figure in woodland garb, (4) an ogre with a maul, (5) an elf with a bow, (6) a priest with extended, (7) a demon, and (8) an angel
Using the rearranged order of the mirror words, could become:  Ogre, Woodland Figure, Priest, Demon, Knight, Mage, Angel, Elf

For the medallions we get:
Rose, quill, eye, book, jester, scales, unicorn, ship

There's probably a million other things that I could have tried that I haven't even thought of as well.  Its really annoying because I feel like the answer is staring me in the face and should be very simple, but I'm just incapable of tying everything together.

---

Oh - I will add that one of the original tenants that I wrote for the Roses was that they INSPIRE others.  Meaning that if I had to choose, that's the mirror I would place the knight and the rose in front of.  However, the tenants didn't make it to the Knowledge section of Arathia, so that might not even be a thing anymore.
This message was last edited by the player at 10:53, Sun 14 May 2017.

Tenants are in the Player Additions thread.

Oh, I just realized that I didn't explicitly mention the table is octal(8 sided). Sorry!

Ok, here are some thoughts.

Good call on the common races, I had forgotten about that! I noticed too that some medallions reflected the knight orders of Krieghold - though not all of them. Upon reading the background descriptions of those order, I noticed something. The Golden Thread order actually has a ship as symbol, and the custodians of the Coin have no symbol.

The Helmets of the Rose         - rose
The Spring Order                -
The Guardians of the Quill      - quill
The Dragon Legion               - scale
The League of the Golden Thread - ship
The Ashen Order                 -
The Custodians of the Coin      - none

That leaves the following medallions: book, jester, unicorn, eye.
I'm not sure if there's a connection to the knight orders now... If some symbols are not related to the knights, perhaps they are to other factions.

The eye could be related to the Watchers (Eyes of Yggdrasil).
The book is a symbol of mages (Obsidian Tower of the Magi). This could therefore be related to the Ashen order.
The unicorn and jester - no clue.

About the figures, all but the knight have something in hand. Though I'm unsure if it matters.

Knight in plate               -
Mage in robes                 -  staff
Figure in woodland garb       -  longsword
Ogre                          -  maul
Elf                           -  bow
Priest with extended (hands?) -  holy symbol
Demon                         -  scimitar
Angel                         -  glaive

Good catch about the 'inspire' being related to the Rose as well. I wonder if the order of how the figures and medallions were described matters though. I have the feeling those were random.

About the medallions, some make sense, some don't. I personally would've related the unicorn to the angel (they're both celestial beings right?). The following list makes sense to me (missing the eye, scale and ship)

Knight in plate               -               - rose
Mage in robes                 -  staff        - book
Figure in woodland garb       -  longsword    -
Ogre                          -  maul         -
Elf                           -  bow          -
Priest with extended (hands?) -  holy symbol  -
Demon                         -  scimitar     - jester
Angel                         -  glaive       - unicorn


One thing I was thinking of is this: the only figure who's stance doesn't change in the mirror's reflection is the knight. Noting that the Custodians of the Coin order has no symbol, perhaps this figure is already 'complete' and therefore doesn't change its reflection. This makes me wonder whether we can make the other figures' reflection also not change depending on the medallions we put on them. This would leave one medallion as an extra in the end though...

Ooh I didn't think of scales as in dragon scales.  I thought they were measuring scales, like those used to weigh things.  I allocated them either to the angel, in their duty as judges of whether or not someone can enter heaven (or perhaps Valhalla in this context?), or to the dwarves as merchant scales.  Your interpretation could work better.

@GM - could you confirm the type of scales we are looking at?

It would seems strange to only represent some of the knightly orders and not all of them imo.  However, the Eyes of Yggdrasil being the 8th group is very compelling, imo.

The Jester is a trickster.  A Trickster could be another term for a mage, or at least how members of the Ashen order view mages.  Loki is a trickster, but his tricks are magic after all.  So that could be their symbol maybe?  A tenuous link perhaps...

The book could also be for the Guardians of the quill, since it is their sworn duty to protect knowledge.  However, the quill itself seems to fit too well otherwise.
I'd like to think more on this but I have to be somewhere now.  BBL.

The scales are indeed of the reptilian type. Good question to ask. My RL tabletop game took nearly an hour to ask about whether each symbol is what they thought it was. Everybody had also assumed they were judgement scales.

Hmm so there may be other aspects of the items on the table which we have confused?  I'll try rolling investigation to see if I notice anything else then.

Nevermind - I only managed a 9.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:51, Sun 14 May 2017.

Evidently I hadn't considered this anywhere near in-depth enough. Definitely a good pick-up on the scales; I had assumed balance scales as well. Seems you're actually pretty good with puzzles, Griswold. :)

Looking at the orders (and the Watchers) along with their symbols I'm seeing a distribution something like this:



The three with question marks are particularly speculative. I put the Unicorn with Spring because of the association with woodlands, nature, and purity. The other two were a bit arbitrary. The book to represent the forbidden lore that the Ashen Order hunts down, and the Jester to represent the Knights Errant, similar to the wandering Fool of the Tarot card. I'm not saying it's not a stretch. Alternatively, the Jester could be a 'wild card' to fit the space of an order without a symbol.

If we drop the Watchers out of the equation and stick to the Knightly orders, I would suggest something like this:



The purity connection for Spring and the Unicorn; it's their job to hunt monsters. The Ashen Order are constantly watching everywhere for the incursion of dark magic (the Eye). And the Coin maintain the great knightly census, recording the names of the living and the dead (the Book). Which leaves the Jester as a 'spare' medallion (joker, red-herring, or representing the group themselves).

The table being eight-sided, each figurine has to oppose another. It could be that they are designed to have some kind of association in that regard. Looking at the different orders I thought perhaps there might be oppositions between them (assuming the Rose is unopposed), but the notes on relationships don't support that, as I read them. Several orders dislike the dragons, the remainder largely get along or don't care about one another.

In terms of contrast or opposition, the only direct opposition I see is Demons and Angels. The Priest might oppose the Demon, but then who would be against the Angel? The Mage?

Demon - Angel
Ogre - Elf
Knight - Woodland Garb
Priest - Mage

As for assigning the figurines to particular orders, I'm having trouble with that. The eight-sided table seems to imply that each side gets one statuette and one medallion.

@GM - Are the medallions on chains and of a size suited to put around the necks of the statuettes, or do the statues have settings/slots suitable for placing a medallion into? Does the table have any grooves, slots, or settings? Were the figures evenly distributed about the table when we arrived?

Has anyone actually picked up a statue yet? Kharash was going to but Griswold stopped him.

Kharash has walked around with a statue and medallion before (to check if there was a difference in reflection between each mirror), but hasn't put a medallion on a statue yet.

I also tried to see if the mirrors were movable. Or are they stuck to the wall?

That's an interesting find, Brimir, that the statues are opposites! The opposites you proposed make sense as well.

It is possible that the Knight is 'leading by example' in that its reflection doesn't change; trialling one of the statues on each side of the table might come up with a spot where the reflection is consistent in all mirrors, and we may be able to find the correct locations for each one by trial and error if that's the case.

Picking up a statue reveals a place that looks like it will fit a medallion.

About the Order of the Coin not having a medallion - just a thought but what do coins from Krieghold actually have engraved on them in the first place?

Or - do we use one of our own coins instead?

I like your reasoning for the book to belong to the coin actually, Brimir.  So much so that I'd be inclined to amend your first table to:



I agree with the Unicorn.

The opposites are not something I had considered :)

As for being good at puzzles - I am totally not.  I just keep introducing more and more ideas and can never settle on one as I always end up second guessing myself.

Edit: Okay, I am already second guessing myself now ^^ The book could still relate to the Ashen Order, for the reasons Kharash posted about the book also potentially representing the Mages.  I also didn't give enough credit to the idea that the Jester is a Wild Card.  I don't really play card games, but I vaguely remember games played at school many years ago when the Jester could be used as a stand in for other cards.  After all a 'pack' of cards is only 52, but the 2 jesters technically make 54, I, uh, think :P
This message was last edited by the player at 00:52, Mon 15 May 2017.

You're correct about the jester (or joker) in a deck of cards ;)

It seems we're getting closer to having the medallions paired with each order. But then we need to relate these combinations to the statues as well. Either via medallion-statue or medallion-order combinations. And after that we need to pair the statues+medallions to the words on the mirrors (likely in opposites).

Perhaps there are links between the words on the mirrors and either the statue, medallion, or orders. Though I can't think of any besides the Rose (who still has three viable spots haha).

Also, you mentioned the relationships between orders Brimir, which could make this a small game of 'who sits next to who'. Or whatever such games are called. I'll check of there's a correlation later.

GM, just some more questions about the scene. Are the mirrors movable? Are the slots for the medallions in the table or in the statues? Is the table movable or turnable?

The table is bolted down, as are the mirrors. The slots are located on the bottom of the statues. You can see faint outlines on the table where the statues have been sitting.

I don't think the words on the mirror can be paired up to the statues.  I don't believe the words like 'by' and 'to' are really indicative enough of anything.  I'm not even certain the words are a major part of the puzzle, since the riddle on the table is not either as far as I can tell.  It seems just there to give a hint to us.

The relationships might work, I guess.  With the eye being opposite the Rose since the Rose has no enemies amongst the knightly orders and the eye is kinda the odd one out.  But I still don't see how you would determine where to go from there.  Even if you come up with opposition orders, how do you decide who goes where?

Thank you for the extra detail, GM :)

Hmm...if there are marks where the statues have been sitting doesn't that mean they have been here for a long time?  That seems odd if people have been picking them up and putting them down.  Especially if they have been moving them to different spots on the table.  May be we don't need to move them at all?  I would assume that it at least means we place them on the table rather than anywhere else in the room.

Its also possible that this set up has come from somewhere else.  Like it wasn't made just for the test but is/was part of some display brought from another location.  Though, if that's the case, simply rolling history to remember the answer would be a cheap way to get the solution, so I'm not going there :P

@GM - which mirror is the knight currently facing?

Thanks!

Just playing around here. Just for this, I chose to put book with Ashen Order and jester with Custodians of the Coin.

I tried making a 'who wants to sit next to who' distribution. There are quite some possibilities, especially since both the Rose and Watchers are wild cards here. However, I did have some things to start with: we can connect the Knight to the Rose, the Angel to the Unicorn, the Book to the Mage, and the Jester to the Demon. We know the (expected) opposites of these, so we can fill in a bit more. By playing around I made this table:


I focused mainly on making sure no one is sitting next to someone they dislike. I filled in the remaining statues kinda random.
Interestingly, this puts the priest under the Watchers. Which would fit, since the Eyes of Yggdrasil are related to a deity. On the other hand this puts the woodland figure in combination with the ship medallion, which would fit less well.

If I then apply that sequence of statues to the list we already had and include the words on the mirror we get something like this (for simplicity took the knight as starting point):



Meh, it's just a guess.. we can also find out by trial and error. Though there may be risks involved.

Words aside, for the statues maybe we don't consider what they are as much as what they represent?

Knight holding nothing - Surely the Rose as they are seen as the 'Epitome' of knighthood - the ideal knight.  They therefore have no need to change?  Aka remaining the same in the mirror?

Elf with bow - Not sure.  Perhaps a vigilant sentinel?  the Watcher?

Ogre with maul - Something single-minded and unstoppable?  Dragon?

Angel with Glaive - A fighting saviour? Spring?

Demon with Scimitar - Something sinister and feared?  Ashen?
                    - Or simply something strange?  Golden Thread?

Mage with Staff - A learned man?  Quill?
                  If taken at face value - Ashen?

Priest with Holy Symbol - One dedicated to their beliefs? Quill?
                        - An Inquisitor Maybe?  Ashen?

Woodland figure with Longsword - A tracker maybe?  Coin?

Again, the Ashen Order, if we're thinking along the right lines, is causing me issues.  This time the Golden Thread too.  My thoughts with the Demon linked to the Golden Thread is that the Order is the only without a focus on protecting some part of Krieghold.  They are all about adventure and, in fact, actively encourage people to place themselves in danger.  Of lesser importance is that, for a real life comparison, scimitars are a foreign weapon for a knight, which might mean the demon comes from foreign lands?

If we assume the Ashen Order's Medallion is the Book, then I guess I get:

The knight is on the side matching the kingdom mirror. It is facing the interior of the table.

If the knight is on the 'kingdom' side facing the interior, it is facing the 'inspire' mirror. Interesting.

I think the fact that the reflections of these statues change is a big thing. We have to find if it's possible to make other statues not change. This can be either due to their position (and direction they're facing) or due to the medallion they're connected with - or both.

Shall we try just out some things to see if we can change some reflections?

We can try to put the rose medallion on the knight statue.
We can try to put the woodland figure opposite of the knight, facing the knight.
We can try to put the book medallion on the mage.

I'm fine with trying stuff at this point.  I feel that we have made a good attempt at least solving the puzzle.  However, I do not agree that (if position is important) the woodland figure would be opposite the knight.  That said, if we try it and get burnt alive at least we'll know for sure :P

Remember that Brother Sul is still available if you want to ask any questions of him. Don't count the character out even if the player is gone.

Well, that appears to confirm the idea that each medallion corresponds to a statuette (in case there was any doubt). Thanks GM!

So which goes with which? Do we try to attribute an order to each statuette, and then from there infer a medallion? Or is there another way to look at this?

I don't see any superficial relationships between the statuettes and the Orders, or the statuettes and the medallions. We can see if the Rose fits into the Knight and anything happens from that.

Since each mirror bears a slightly different reflection, perhaps Kharash was on the right track: If we watch the changes in each statuette from the 'Lead' mirror through the sentence to the 'Kingdom' mirror, perhaps they show a progression which will give some clue as to their allegiance/association.

I definitely feel as though we're missing a clue or set of clues which distinguish or identify the statuettes. In fact, I was pre-empted by the GM a bit here; I was going to suggest that there might be some character knowledge that could fill in the gaps.

Are any of these statuettes actually representations of historical figures, heroes (or villains) associated with any of the orders? Perhaps Griswold has some insight into the orders, being a squire; let's pester Brother Sul as well.

Unfortunately I ran out of time today to make a post (and I didn't really want to double-post in the IC thread). But I'm sure Brimir will make some interesting History, Religion, and Arcana checks of his own...

Ok, I've started some trial and error - if there are consequences for simply trying then at least we'll know that and can focus on figuring it out beforehand.

Since we have good indication that at least some part of the knight statue is already correct, I thought it best to continue with this one. With these questions I hope to answer a few things regarding the reflection. My line of thinking is that if any of these factors are wrong, the knight statue should have a changed reflection (it's also possible the knight statue never changes reflections, then we'll have to try with different statues but that will be so much more guessing).

With these tests I'm trying to figure out a few things (in relation to the reflection):
1) if the direction the statue is facing is important
2) if the location is important
3) if the medallion is important
4) if a combination of these things is important, and how many factors of the combination are required to get a normal reflection (the knight may have correct facing and location, but it doesn't have a medallion - if only one factor is required for a correct reflection it'll make our task a bit more difficult)

Quick question

What are you doing with the other statues? By switching spots, you are going to have to move the others and I need to know exactly what you are doing with the others.

I suppose just switch them. The one that the knight replaces on the knight's spot.
(though Kharash will stop as soon as anything dangerous happens)

If the individual steps matter:
- pick up the statue in front of 'example'
- put that statue on a non-spot on the table
- pick up the knight statue and put it in front of 'example'
- put the other statue on the knight's original spot

You will have to be more explicit in which statues you are moving. They are currently set up like this.

                                    Mirrors
                                    Kingdom
                              Lead            Example
                                By            To
                               The            Entire
                                    Inspire

                                    Statuettes
                                     Knight
                          Woodland             Mage
                          Demon                Ogre
                          Angel                Priest
                                      Elf

Knight and mage

Just to be clear, this is the position that triggered the woodland figure's 'normalization'?


                                    Mirrors
                                    Kingdom
                              Lead            Example
                                By            To
                               The            Entire
                                    Inspire

                                   Statuettes
                                      Mage
                          Woodland             Knight
                          Demon                Ogre
                          Angel                Priest
                                      Elf

Correct

Nice! Well done, Kharash :)

@GM - is the Knight's position now different in the mirror?

No, it remains the same

Interesting :)
So what I'm curious about now is whether the connection between the statues are the trigger, or if the words on the mirror are also involved.

What happens when we shift the knight and woodland figure one spot to the left (counter-clockwise)? To this position:

                                    Mirrors
                                    Kingdom
                              Lead            Example
                                By            To
                               The            Entire
                                    Inspire

                                   Statuettes
                                      Knight
                          Demon                Mage
                          Woodland             Ogre
                          Angel                Priest
                                      Elf

The Knight is now facing the word 'Lead' which is the beginning of the phrase; is it worth going through the rest of the words of the phrase in order? I.e. facing 'By', then 'Example', etc. So next:

Step 2

                                    Mirrors
                                    Kingdom
                              Lead            Example
                                By            To
                               The            Entire
                                    Inspire

                                   Statuettes
                                      Mage
                          Woodland             Ogre
                          Demon                Knight
                          Angel                Priest
                                      Elf

Then:
Step 3

                                    Mirrors
                                    Kingdom
                              Lead            Example
                                By            To
                               The            Entire
                                    Inspire

                                   Statuettes
                                      Mage
                          Knight               Ogre
                          Demon                Woodland
                          Angel                Priest
                                      Elf

The only issue is that going to 'To' leaves the Knight opposite the Woodland figure again, which may or may not have repercussions. So perhaps worth swapping the Mage and the Woodland figures before moving the Knight to the position opposite 'To'.

Step 4

                                   Statuettes
                                      Woodland
                          Knight               Ogre
                          Demon                Mage
                          Angel                Priest
                                      Elf
Step 5

                                   Statuettes
                                      Woodland
                          Demon                Ogre
                          Knight               Mage
                          Angel                Priest
                                      Elf
Step 6

                                   Statuettes
                                      Knight
                          Demon                Ogre
                          Woodland             Mage
                          Angel                Priest
                                      Elf

Step 7

                                   Statuettes
                                      Priest
                          Demon                Ogre
                          Woodland             Mage
                          Angel                Knight
                                      Elf

Then again there's a repetition of you swap the Knight and Angel to go from 'The' to 'Entire', so I'd propose swapping the Priest and Angel first.

Step 8

                                   Statuettes
                                      Angel
                          Demon                Ogre
                          Woodland             Mage
                          Priest                Knight
                                      Elf

Step 9

                                   Statuettes
                                      Angel
                          Demon                Ogre
                          Woodland             Mage
                          Knight               Priest
                                      Elf

And then... I think that's everyone. So Knight moves to face 'Kingdom'.

Step 10

                                   Statuettes
                                      Angel
                          Demon                Ogre
                          Woodland             Mage
                          Elf                  Priest
                                      Knight

That way the Knight has been at every position of the saying, and has opposed each figurine. Absolutely no help with the medallions, though. And completely unhelpful if each statuette has to be in its original position when the Knight opposes it (which is another possibility).

Maybe something about each statuette's final pose and outfit can give a clue to which medallion it matches (if any)?
This message was last edited by the player at 03:00, Tue 16 May 2017.

Apologies for my absence, I had a death in the family and had to travel for it. Honestly haven't even thought about RPoL since I got the news.

Looks like I've got a crapload of stuff to get caught up on here.

I might have to save this game for tomorrow. Not sure I have the brainpower for puzzle at the moment.

Condolences, Wrenn. For my part I don't feel it will be too much of an issue if your time needs to be prioritised elsewhere for a while. Gnomes are easily portable, after all. :)

Hope you get some quality rest.

I'm sorry for your loss, Wrenn.  I agree with Brimir - get some rest :)

Brimir, I like your line of thinking however, as I understand it, the knight currently has its back to the word 'Example' and is facing the word 'The,' whilst the Woodland figure has it back to the word 'lead' and is facing the word 'entire'.  This means the knight is opposite the angel and the Woodland figure is opposite the Priest.

As it stands, there appears to be no reason not to try it though, unless we're limited by the number of actions we can take.
This message was last edited by the player at 09:55, Tue 16 May 2017.

Wrenn, take all the time you need.

You are not limited in actions, but I would prefer if you do not spam the IC with a wall of diagrams to spell out your steps. Take it one at a time.

@Griswold - Ah, I was working on the configuration mentioned in post #194 of this thread, the one where the Woodland Figure 'normalised', if I read that right.

@GM - Understood; will walk through the steps one post at a time IC once we have a plan laid out. Thanks for the reminder to take it slowly, though, as I probably would have posted something nearer to a summary otherwise...

And apologies to everyone for spamming the OOC earlier. ;)

I'm sorry for your loss, Wrenn. Take all the time you need, indeed.

Like Griswold, I was under the impressions the word 'Example' was opposite of 'The'. However, the GMs post put the knight across of the woodland figure. Could you give us some clarification on this, GM?

Are the opposites really opposites? (Kingdom-Inspire, Example-The, To-By, Entire-Lead)

Or is there a different relation? (such as Kingdom-Inspire, Lead-Example, By-To, The-Entire)

I tried to place the opposites across from each other visibly. There correlation is more important than actual position.

Octagons are hard to do in RPOL.

Oh. I thought we had established that we were going one move at a time?

To my mind the idea was to see whether the first move fixed the reflections of the demon, and proceed along the words of the saying from there if it did -- or try something else if it didn't. But Brimir is not the most coordinated of individuals, so I'm happy to say he knocked over the demon or otherwise dislodged it. In the name of drama and suspense.

Anyone think we should stick the unicorn medallion in the woodland figure now that it's set? That's about the only idea I have, since I'm still stumped about the medallion-statuette combinations and my theory about placements has fallen over and sunk into the swamp. I'm dreadful under perceived time-critical situations; I always prefer turn-based over real-time strategy.

Okay, I thought you were going to move them in turn when nothing happened. I misunderstood what was going on.

Also, the woodland figure denormallizes when the knight is moved away from it.
This message was last edited by the GM at 09:24, Thu 18 May 2017.

So, before Brimir moved anything the knight and the woodland figure were opposite each other?  I'm still confused as to whether that was or was not the case, sorry.

If so and if we put everything back as it was then, perhaps it is having the correct opposite figures that causes them to 'normalise' rather than the mirrors they stand between?  We could try moving both the knight and the woodland figure to other positions on the table, but making sure they they are still opposite each other.  Or we could try putting other assumed opposite statues across from each other?  Like this:

1: Moving knight and Woodland Figure:

                                     Knight
                          Elf                  Mage
                          Demon                Ogre
                          Angel                Priest
                                Woodland Figure



or

2: Placing opposites:

1st move:
                                      Mage
                          Woodland             Knight
                          Demon                Angel
                          Ogre                 Priest
                                      Elf

If the Demon and Angel, 'normalise' we could then try setting this up:

                                      Ogre
                          Woodland             Knight
                          Demon                Angel
                          Mage*                Priest*
                                      Elf

*Divine Magic vs Holy, maybe?  Education/Knowledge vs Blind Faith?

So, did Brimir's moves happen or not? I think it's fair to have had it happen, since you've already showed us the result, and we could gain quite some information out of those moves.

The layout in msg 192 was how it started.

The knight was moved opposite the woodland figure, at which point the woodland figure normalized.

The knight was moved back to its original position and you started talking about what to do next.

Brimir stated that he planned to rotate the knight around to see if any other statues normalized.

He was given the go ahead and stated that he started. Since he was only moving one figure at a time, he continued the action.

The timer started when he picked up the demon statue.

I had said not to spam a wall of text, so I can understand why only one action was assumed. At the time of the post, you had not yet activated the timer. You now have a countdown, though you haven't figured out how long it is yet.

I am ruling right now that Brimir has the demon statue in hand.

So we're at step 5 of Brimir's moves now? That's the step where the demon got moved.

Correct

Simple enough miscommunication, prompted by my over-enthusiastic discussion in the OOC here.  I think I may have misunderstood the placements, and definitely didn't put in an accurate enough description of the single move (I probably should have just posted the layout, but I didn't want to make the IC thread untidy), or checking to see that there was a change before continuing on. I didn't realise that the Knight had been moved back to its original position either, not that it makes a great deal of difference to the initial move.

I do apologise for the lack of clarity. Thank you for your patience, GM.

As Kharash has observed, we now have information we didn't previously -- that which is seen cannot be un-seen. So I had no intention of asking for a retcon regardless.

To the task at hand: I like Griswold's proposed opposition pairings. 'Faith vs Formula' is a solid juxtaposition. I guess we should try that in as few moves as possible, unless there are other suggestions that everyone things are worth trying first?

So we're currently at:

Demon - Brimir's Hand

                                   Statuettes
                                      Woodland
                          Knight               Ogre
                                               Mage
                          Angel                Priest
                                      Elf


So... Put the Demon back in its spot? Then if we swap Ogre and Woodland we can see if the opposition of Ogre and Elf normalises the two (and that puts Knight back opposite Woodland).


                                   Statuettes
                                      Ogre
                          Knight               Woodland
                          Demon                Mage
                          Angel                Priest
                                      Elf


IF that works, we can swap Angel and Mage.

Feel free to prompt Brimir in the IC when we've agreed on the next move.

That seems fine to me :)

Sure, go ahead Brimir.

Although I suspect there is a different pattern behind this, at least this move will give us some insight.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:04, Thu 18 May 2017.

I'm eager to hear more of these suspicions. Am at work so will post when able.

The woodland figure normalized even though it wasn't opposite of the knight, it was 2 steps counter-clockwise. Also the saying on the mirror basically says to lead and the rest will follow. To me this suggests that we have to find the next statue to normalize one at a time, continuously adding to what we already have.


                     [ Kingdom ]
                         mage

         [ Lead ]                 [ Example ]
         woodland                   knight


   [ By ]                                    [ To ]
    demon                                      ogre


          [ The ]                  [ Entire ]
            angel                     priest

                     [ Inspire ]
                         elf

This was the situation where the woodland figure normalized, it also denormalized upon removal of the knight, so the woodland figure is dependent on the knight. This could be the case for the next statue as well, it may be dependent on the normalized woodland figure.

We don't know yet to what extent the position on the table/in front of the mirror matters. What we do know is that even if it does (if the woodland figure is in the right spot) it still needs the knight to be in position.

I think we should work with what we already have, which are two correct positions. However, we have to find out if the normalization is dependent on only the location between statues, or if it also depends on the mirrors.

What I would therefore suggest it to put the woodland figure on the [ The] mirror spot, switching the woodland and angel to create this:

                   Statuettes
                     Angel
              Knight         Ogre
        Demon                      Mage
             Woodland       Priest
                      Elf               

I think its a good idea to test whether moving the knight and woodland figure pairing to another place opposite each other cause the woodland figure to unfreeze or not  However, I think you are moving far too many statues.  If you wanted to get the knight directly above the woodland, this would require less moves:

                   Statuettes
                     Mage
              Knight         Angel
        Demon                      Ogre
             Woodland       Priest
                      Elf

Sorry, if I am missing something behind your moves.

That said, I am still confused about the position of things.  GM, please could you confirm which statues are currently opposite each other, assuming the current layout is:

                     Mage
             Woodland       Knight
        Demon                      Ogre
             Angel          Priest
                      Elf

Are the opposites:
a)Mage & Elf, Woodland & Knight, Demon & Ogre, Angel & Priest
or
b)Mage & Elf,Knight & Angel, Ogre & Demon, Priest & Woodland

Btw Kharash - I hope your theory about having to find the next statue to freeze is wrong. If we have to find the correct statue 'freezing' order, then this puzzle cannot be solved logically.  It can only be solved by trial and error, which means it isn't really a puzzle at all.  Just a task to see how quickly we can move statues around the table.

You are correct on the A layout.

We're currently at:



Though it seems I had different opposites in mind. In that case the knight and woodland figure were indeed opposite of each other, and it would then be a good idea to follow through with Brimir's original plan to do this:

Many thanks ^^

I just realised that I was -- somehow -- completely failing to visualise an octagon correctly.

Not my finest hour. But accurate role-playing of disadvantage on Intelligence rolls. :)

Happy to go with any suggestion, once there's a narrative prompt in the IC thread.

Since Brimir is still holding the Demon, it would be quicker to do this:

                                   Statuettes
                                    Woodland
                          Knight               Ogre
                          Priest               Mage
                          Angel                Demon
                                      Elf

We can then see if we are correct about the Priest & Mage + Angel and Demon pairings.  And, if we are, we know that the Elf and Ogre will also pair up.

Go ahead Griswold :)

Sorry everyone; ran into some issues with extra work and medical stuff. Back on deck now.

@GM - presumably there is currently no readily apparent lock to use the key on? (I am assuming one or more doors/whatevers will appear once we have the medallions correct).

@Everyone - I think we were all pretty much agreed on trying the rose medallion with the knight.  Should we try that next?

You are correct. No apparent door or keyhole.

Kharash placed the rose medallion in the base of the knight statuette in post #204 of the IC thread. From that, it's probably still in there. No change noted from book or rose medallions in knight statuette.

Concerning the medallions, is there any place for them to fit in that we've seen so far? Are they just sitting on the table, or is there a small nook or indentation that each of them sits in?

Right. I had forgotten.  Sorry and thanks. :)



There is a place on the statues where they fit.

Unless I missed a post further down, the last comment made regarding the medallions was mine below.




We spent a long time discussing the medallions before we got to moving the statues and nothing new is glaring at me form the placement of the statues with regards to the medallions.  So, unless, someone has a better idea, I think we need to start experimenting with them.  Are we okay with my last suggestion, or do we want to try something else?

One of the different combinations before saw the demon statues paired to the jester.

Sounds like a plan to me.

Does anybody need clarification or have any further questions?

I think I am okay, sorry for not posting earlier. :)

No worries. Now begins the fun part since the danger of the room has been revealed. I've been looking forward to it, in a creative reveal way, not because I want you guys to get killed.

*evilly steeples fingers*

Uh, I am sorry but I cannot edit my character sheet.  Where would you like me to record my current hp?

We can keep it in the Prepared Spells and Abilities thread. I'll change it to a current Status thread.

Righto.  HP added and updated.  Thanks :)

Apologies, I've not been well and my wife has had some health complications. I will endeavour to post soon.

Take what time you need, Brimir. The family will always come first over this game.

Excuse me for not posting earlier, had a really busy week.

So the archer is behind the glass of the mirror?

What puzzles me a bit is that the book medallion has been in the knight statue, with not apparent effect. Although at that point the knight was in the 'wrong' position, so maybe the medallion check only happens if the statues are aligned?

Could be that the key needed to be manifest (and possibly taken from the table), as you suggest. Or the Knight may be a neutral piece, benefactors of the tourney as they are.

So the elf represents the order of Spring. Any suggestions other than the unicorn medallion?

I say we leave the fireball trap mage until nearer the end. :)

Very cool setup, too, GM. I can see why you were looking forward to us discovering the next step.

I'm on holidays now for a week, but travelling so not sure how frequently I'll get access. Thanks for your understanding about the delays everyone.

I would like to say that you all are handling the situation much better than my tabletop group. I had this set up with actual coins and minis on my table. They were not allowed to inspect, touch, or do anything physical to the setup unless they were in character. I repeated this several times and told them anything to do with the minis was going to IC.

So what did they do? Immediately did the mix and match method. It did not turn out well for them until they actually looked and thought about the placement and relationships.

Good on you guys for the avoidance on TPK decisions so far.

BTW, the first group that went is a direct reflection of my tabletop game.

Haha, that's pretty funny!

So do you use the same world for both rpol and RL games? There's been quite some player input in this game, do you transfer that to the RL version as well? And vica versa?


Also, did the mirror image disappear/change when Kharash removed the eye medallion?

The mirror figure remains.

I integrate some, but not all. The knightly orders are in both.

Sorry for the double post, but I had a quick question.

Has anyone here played on Roll20 before?

I have.

Any good?

Yeah, I like it quite a bit. It's more more suited, in my opinion, for live games than it is for play-by-post like this, but it's great for playing a live game with people in different locations.

Roll20 and RPoL are the two best sites I've found for playing D&D, or similar games, online.

I've been interested in play testing some of the dungeons for this campaign on it, but have not used it before.

I've got a live game with a couple that used to live close to us, but then moved about 2 hours away. We play live once every 4-6 weeks, and then we bring the game here in between live sessions. But, I'm considering moving it to Roll20 so that we can have things moving more swiftly.

The biggest drawback to PbP, in general, is how slowly things progress. When you've got no other means of playing, you take what you can get. Playing in real time is generally a more rewarding experience, though.

I've played a few games in Rpol.  All play-by-post.  Mostly they just start and stop quite quickly.  Either the DM finds they don't have the time to deal with it, or player's just disappear.  However, I have been playing a 4E game here for a long time now and, like Wrenn says, it has been very slow paced.

I think play by post works much better for things like this puzzle room we have now because it gives people time to think things through and discuss things properly.  It works less well for combat, because each round takes a day or more to complete.


I use Roll20 for live games. Its pretty decent.

Games that require you to think or to do a good amount of RP definitely tend to work better here. Pacing is still important, but it's not as bad for things to be slow outside of combat as it is mid-combat.

Yeah, the pacing is the thing that will kill an RPoL game faster than anything else (except drama). With combat-focused RPoL games, I like to reward full XP for monster kills rather than dividing it among the group to help give that sense of progression. So if a monster would give 400 XP and you divide it by 5 players so they each get 80, I just give everyone the 400 XP. Unless it's a game set up to teach people how to play, in which case I keep things slower.

I had to take a break from RPoL last year because of a back injury that kept me from spending time sitting in front of a computer, so I pulled out of all of my RPoL games. When I came back 9 months later, I looked those games up again to see which ones were still going. Of the 18 games I was in, only 4 of them were still going. Of those 4, 2 of them moved along really well. One of the others had finished the dungeon I left about 75% into it, and had made it back to town in those 9 months.

The forth game didn't have the game threads visible if you weren't an active player, and my character had been taken over by another player so I left it alone. That GM posted in the LFP board last week and my original character was open so I took it over this week. It's now been 14 months since I left that game, and they have literally moved one room further into the dungeon than when I left the game. 1 room in 14 months. My mind was seriously blown when I went to get caught up on things and saw where we were.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:54, Mon 05 June 2017.

That being said, how am I doing with this game so far? I am trying to adapt to players leaving and new players joining, but the entire festival was designed for a single long session, maybe two shorter ones in RL. As a new DM, I am learning that some things don't translate well here.

I think it has been great so far :)  You've been very responsive and kept everything ticking over.  Although, it is possible some of the confusion we had with regards to the layout of this room might have been cleared up with a simple diagram.  Just a thought!

I think you're doing fine with the game so far.

I think you're doing a good job of keeping everything moving, GM, especially in light of the ebb and flow of player momentum. For that matter, I feel the players are doing a fairly good job of covering each other as posting rates vary.

I've not played online via any other medium than RPoL, so I can't add anything to that part of the conversation.

When the tabletop group was mentioned, I did wonder whether the first group was a reflection of their progress. I appreciate their noble sacrifice in allowing us to learn from their mistakes, if only by being a clear example of how perilous this trial could actually be.

I think you're doing great!

PBP games are indeed very different. Players come and go, and it simply takes a very long time to do anything. Although that 14 months for 1 room does sound extreme, Wrenn!

I've played via PBP for a year or 2 now (I think?), and I've found that it helps to just accept those things as sort of laws of nature.

The only thing you can do really, is to remove any factors that slow down the game. Things such as the DM rolling for everyone's initiative simply saves you 1-2 days. And I personally think it's ok for a DM to push things a lot more in PBP games. I have the feeling there will always be opportunities for role-play during posts, no matter whether you're standing still deciding what to do or if you're in a time-based challenge such as the puzzle we're doing now.

I've always been curious about roll20 and similar websites. I'm mainly interested in the exploration of those maps, with the dynamic lighting. Although it does look like a lot of work for the DM to set up.

Let's discuss what statue-medallion combination we should try next. This is what we have so far. Table from Griswold's post, with the angel taking the elf's place, and the book / jester possibility still open due to Wrenn's INT check.



If we're going to do this statue by statue, we want to avoid being burned by (demonic) fire. So the mage and demon are last (and hopefully their medallions will be obvious by finding the others first). This leaves the angel, priest, ogre, and woodland figure.

Each statue may have multiple medallions that could fit. So far I can think of these:

Angel
1. Eye           - the Watchers are the only religion-based group
2. Book/jester   - the Coin, related to death, guidance to after-life

Priest
1. Eye           - the Watchers are the only religion-based group
2. Book/jester   - the Coin, related to death, guidance to after-life
3. Quill         - protectors of knowledge, such as the holy script

Ogre
1. Scales        - the only 'monstrous' statue

Woodland figure
1. Book/jester   - the Coin, searching for the fallen knights


Based on this I'd suggest we start with either the angel or priest. If we start with the ogre or woodland figure, and it isn't that one medallion then we're left to simply guess...

What do you think?

Umm, the book and jester are separate medallions.

That said, happy to try the angel and eye next :)

I'm happy to pursue any option; on the plus side, once we get a wrong combination we can see the figure in detail in the mirror, which should reveal the Order they're associated with and ensure we're on the right path. So if we've wrongly associated, say, the Ogre statuette with the Order of the Dragon, we should be able to see our error and compensate.

Based on that I'd even be inclined to pursue the ones we're more confident with first (such as said ogre).

That sounds like a perfectly sound plan to me.

I'm happy to post a combo, but I suspect I may have clouded the issue; final votes for the next set?

I don't know, nor really care that much tbh.  The trouble is that the medallions can be interpreted in so many ways and there are logical arguments for a host of different combinations.

I do like Kharash's idea about trying to solve statues that we are less frightened of first, though I kinda disagree that the angel is one of those.  Symbolism aside, they are powerful entities.
This message was last edited by the player at 10:53, Thu 08 June 2017.

True, the angel statue could be very dangerous as well.

You have a point Brimir - go ahead with the ogre :)

I'm going to need an action soon.

Done. Thanks for the forbearance everyone. My wife fell ill on our holiday and then a few wrong turns and stops added another two to three hours to what was already something like a nine-hour drive across country.

I hope she is better. Take whatever time you need for family and that goes for all of you. Just give me a heads up if you can.

She's recovering, thank you; probably another day or two on the mend. I had expected to be online sooner.

@GM - How 'common' is the knowledge about the Knightly Orders and other information in the 'Knowledge about the world of Arathia' thread? I've been erring on the side of ignorance for Brimir, but is it appropriate for any/all of us to have an idea of the Orders, their symbolism and general purpose?

@Players - I know we still have six (five?) to go, but I can't help feeling a sense of achievement for the group after getting that one right. To my understanding of the scene we don't actually have a Knight in any of the mirrors, so we can try re-slotting the Rose medallion now that this phase of the puzzle has been activated. Hopefully that stands as correct, which leaves us with 5 to go.



Brimir's IC reasoning for the Angel was intentionally simplistic; as a player I'm inclined to leave that kind of hurt for later.

If we're looking at the Woodland Figure next as the least threatening, I'm still feeling like the figure has a sense of 'explorer' about it, which is more in line with the League of the Golden Thread (Ship medallion). I'm happy to take the hit to test this theory, if everyone else is willing. If I'm wrong, we should get some idea from the figure's adornment about which order they're part of.

Well done with the Ogre statue :)  Sounds like Griswold could have been crushed if you'd gotten it wrong!

I don't know about the Woodland figure.  To be honest, I'm thoroughly confused.  Every time I try to come up with a solution I feel is correct, I end up with a tonne of different options.

For example, from what's left, the Angel, Priest or Woodland figure could all represent the Watchers.  The Angel because both are allied with Gods and the Angels watch from on high.  The Priest because both are innately religious.  The Woodland figure because Watchers are travellers of the world and are also known as The Eyes of the World Tree.

The Angel itself could represent the Quill - both are guardians of their respective realms who judge whether people are worthy to enter.  The Watchers.  Or the Coin as both are associated with the dead.

The Woodland figure could represent the Watchers, the Coin (if considered a tracker), or the Golden Thread (if considered a traveller).

However, I find it very difficult to NOT associate the demon with the Golden Thread.  Mostly because I cannot see where else it would fit.  The only other other option in my eyes is the Ashen Order, who are viewed with fear.  But the mage makes too much sense for them.  I am fairly sure the ship also matches up with the Golden Thread (as you appear to agree).  So that means the demon and ship would go together, if my logic is correct.

Taking the ship out of the equation, the only medallion that's left which would seem to make sense for the Woodland figure is they Eye, so I would suggest trying those may be.

And yes I am well aware that every suggestion I make comes back to the Eye medallion >.<

Seems like we need to find a home for that Eye medallion ;).

Something to bear in mind (just to add more uncertainty to the mix) is that we have no certainty that the Watchers are included in the eight. There are 7 Orders and this puzzle is set by/for the Helmets of the Rose; unless there is some history of alliance between the two groups, why set a space for the Eyes of Yggdrasil?

I feel like the Demon and the Jester medallion could just as easily fit the eighth 'non-Order' spot as blanks or red herrings. I'm curious as to why there are eight sides to this room/puzzle in the first place.

As it is, I too see possible arguments for a variety of combinations for the remaining Orders. The only plausible tie I can see to the Golden Thread being attached to the Demon is the Demon actually being a ship's figurehead. Or maybe as descendants of the Argonauts they have a reputation as monster-hunters.

It looks as though there will be some point where we have to resort to trial and error, probably for a couple of the statuettes. So the question is: which type of failure do we feel most comfortable in enduring the consequences for? The archer was a Dex save to mitigate some of the damage; the Ogre is an unknown on that front. What kind of punishment are the others likely to deal out, and who's best equipped to weather it?

Also I've a feeling that despite Griswold's valiant efforts, given the description that the Elf could target anyone in the room, whoever is handling the statuettes/medallions is going to be the one who is on the receiving end of the consequences for failure.

Maybe it would be more sensible to start with the Priest and the Quill medallion, then? Followed by the book medallion, if that fails, or possibly the Eye medallion.

But I remain curious about the Woodland figure; my vote is still to try that one next.

Before I gave some reasoning behind the demon.  Here's a recap since it was some time ago now: it is an 'outsiders' and it wields a scimitar.  The Golden Thread are somewhat adverse to the other orders in that they are not really interested in the protection of the kingdom, but actively encourage people to place themselves in danger.  They also travel to strange and exotic places and, traditionally at least, a scimitar is a foreign weapon not a knightly one.



Yeah, but its in character for him to try.  Plus I was hoping that my interference might at least cause some problems for the trap.  Perhaps mitigating some damage or offering cover against an attack roll, if one was required.

Anyway, I like the idea of the 8th group being the Watchers.  Imo, they are at least the best option from what we know of the world atm.

And I'm fine with trying the Woodland figure and the ship next, if that's what you want.  I've just been associating the ship and demon together for a while now.

Ah, thank you for the reminder. I had indeed completely forgotten. :)

I wouldn't dream of suggesting that Griswold not continue his valiant attempt to defend the others from the mirrors. It reflects well on his character.

Since the Eye medallion seems open to most of the statuettes, given that all of the orders have to be vigilant in one way or another, I've no objection to splitting the difference and trying the Eye with the Woodland Figure (or any other combination really, but we do need to choose something).

Well done on the ogre!

I'd say let's try the priest next. It's  (perhaps naively) less dangerous than the other statues and we have at least two good options for the medallions. The angel is more dangerous but could be a good statue to figure out after the priest, since they share possible medallions (so one will be ruled out by completing the priest).

The woodland figure, I agree, is still confusing (joker?) and the mage and demon just plain dangerous.

So... Priest plus Quill to start with? Or book?

Try the Quill first?  Of the two options, that seems less likely to belong to one of the other statues (I think the book has a good chance of belonging to the mage).

Agreed

Currently placed an ad looking to pick up players for Eli and Brother Sul. The characters were too good not have participated. If you know anyone interested, please let me know.

Update coming later today. As I understand it, you chose the Priest and the Quill.

Correct. Priest plus Quill. Because monks do excellent calligraphy.

Any word on how much about the knightly Orders in the Info thread is common knowledge, GM?

Sorry! Lost track of the request.

Assume that anything in the Common Knowledge thread is what any reasonably educated person would know. Some of the finer details, like the Watchers history, will be betond layfolk. The thread represents what you could discover and be expected to know simply from bards and tavern stories. There are enough retired and would be adventurers to make it commonplace knowledge.

I would expect a revamp of the religions and a more detailed history in the coming weeks.

Brilliant! Thanks so much. :)

EDIT: Also, that was a combination I hadn't expected. After this I'd say maybe:

Angel - Quill
Mage - Book
Woodland - Eye
Demon - Jester

But I'm open to further thoughts. Maybe Mage + Book after everyone's recovered, since we seem to agree it's likely that or the Quill?
This message was last edited by the player at 03:20, Wed 14 June 2017.

Didn't expect the ship either.. I'd say try the angel and woodland figure next. For safety reasons :)

Interesting transition!

Which image in the mirror is in front of which statue on the table?

And just to clarify, there wasn't a knight image before, right? So there are now 5 knight images (and 5 mirrors with keyholes)?

Correct, there are currently 5 knights, the priest, the elf, and the ogre.

Don't worry about the position of the figures in the mirrors to the statues. I will let you know now it has no bearing on the puzzle. I don't want you fretting over too many details. What is important is that you have placed them correctly on the table and made a couple of errors for placing medallions.

That's all I have for now unless there are more questions on clarification.

So we have to pick the correct mirror from the 5 with keyholes and, had we gotten everything 100% right from the start, there would only be 1 (or at least a lot less) to choose from?

Oh dear >.<

Do the words above the mirrors or around the table have any bearing on this and is the key on the table solid now?
This message was last edited by the player at 11:24, Wed 14 June 2017.

Perhaps completing the other statues will eliminate the wrong knight images?