ooc.   Posted by The Judge.Group: 0
Sugita Jun
 player, 8 posts
Fri 28 Apr 2017
at 22:45
Re: ooc
Tank Armor(F/S/T) Rate of Fire Anti Tank Firepower
T95 15/5/2 2 16 3+
Panther D 10/5/1 2 14 3+
SU 85 5/5/1 2 12 3+
Tiger II (H) 15/8/2 2 16 3+
M4A3E2 Jumbo 12/8/1 2 10 3+
Sherman Firefly 6/4/1 2 13 4+
Jagpanzer IV 7/3/1 2 11 3+
A34 Comet 6/4/1 2 14 3+

This is the stats for the Flames of War ruleset.

Armor is listed as Front/Side/Top.

You would roll to see if you hit on a target, based on their skill and any concealment/cover between you and the target. If you hit, you measure their armor against your AT. If you roll higher you pen, then roll a firepower to see effect. If you beat your firepower, pop goes the weasel.

Example:

Firefly vs Jumbo

Firefly shoots at jumbo from the front. Rolls a 1d6 to see if the round hits. He passes. Firefly AT is 13, Jumbo front is 12. Difference of one means that the defending player would need to roll an armor save of 2 or better to 'bounce' the shot and take no damage. A roll of 1 would cause a bail out, such as a fire that needs to be extinguished before use. The tank would be DOWN but not out. Bailed out tanks can not defend themselves and must roll a motivation check to get themselves back in working order. For the sake of this, Jumbo passes his armor save with a 3.

Jumbo's turn now and he shoots at the Firefly. Jumbo's AT is 10 compared to the front armor of a Firefly at 6. To bounce the shot the Firefly's Armor Save needs to be 5 or higher for a no effect 'bounce' but if he rolls a 4 it is a possible bail out. 3 and under and the round has a potential to blow up the tank. The firefly fails his armor save with the roll of a 2 and so now the Jumbo rolls his firepower check. If he rolls a 3+ he kills the firefly. He does, and poof. Dead tank.
Magie Vrajitoare
 Student, 47 posts
 Team Coven
 Hemlock - T-34/85
Fri 28 Apr 2017
at 23:00
Re: ooc
Personally, I don't want "realistic". I don't like Flames of War or Bolt Action for that reason, it's why I like Tanks. It's simple, easy and, more importantly, fun!!

That's what I want to have here, fun. Because Girls und Panzer is supposed to be about fun. Half the things their tanks accomplished in the anime aren't realistic in any way, but it's thrilling and exciting and fun. I don't want to spend a lot of time discussing which tank has impenetrable front armor, or where on the cheeks you have to hit another tank to maybe have an effect on it. I either want to roll dice quickly and easily with a simple system, or I want the GM to have complete control over whether a shot hits and is hard enough to disable the tank.

Also, Hit Points are a thing, even in Girls und Panzer. In the final battle of the series, the Anglerfish team took A LOT of hits and damage, each point of that subtracting from the "hit point system" the computer inside the tank uses to determine damage and inoperability. This is represented by bits of the schurzen being blown off, glancing shots off the turret, etc. At the end of the battle, the Panzer IV had lost all it's hit points but likely 1, while the Tiger I ended up losing them all. It's not any more complicated than that.

I'm not trying to be a champion for my system, by any means, but it is nicely and easily adapted to an online combat game based in an anime world where teenage girls harmlessly take WWII tanks into battle against each other. I have pre-existing, balanced stats for nearly all of the tanks that we'll be using or facing. The rest can easily be extrapolated by either increasing or decreasing Defense (which represents armor), Hull (which represents overall toughness and durability), or Attack (which represents cannon power).

That said, if the GM is really wanting a "cinematic" system where the combats aren't balanced, and we've got to use our brains more than our dice to beat a tough foe, then we should eliminate dice rolling all together and let the story and the GM dictate success or failure according to the needs of the story.

Ultimately, in my opinion, we either need a fairly established set of guidelines, rules and stats to ensure fair play, or we need an arbitrary system based on the needs of the story.

-Ken
The Judge
 GM, 48 posts
Fri 28 Apr 2017
at 23:49
Re: ooc
tell you all what then, I'll leave the system up to the other judge then. As when we had first talked we had talked about keeping it realistic.

Though if you think about it some of those things could be possible if the tank was light enough and moving fast enough and had only steel tracks with no rubber pad, As I know some cars that can't take a turn at 30MPH on rubber tires so how could a tank when it's riding on steel which has less friction the rubber even with the added weight.


though in the movie the Tiger was still operational and I'm pretty certain the reason behind the Panzer 4 being considered inop was because the end of it's barrel had bannana peeled when they fired it point blank when they hit the crusader.



Also anyone here ever see a skid plate race?
The Judge
 GM, 49 posts
Sat 29 Apr 2017
at 01:36
Re: ooc
the main reason for the player vs player practice is more for character growth and team building then anything else.

 and I had intended for the game to be realistic cinematic where for the most part the players could take out NPC opponents as long as it was in a realistic way, so a T34 could take out a Tiger II with a single shot but not if their shooting the upper glacis where even my chars T95 with it's 155mm cannon would bounce a shot due to angling, But I also want the players to think of ways to take a underdog team and get it a win by using different strategies against a better force or bigger force.

Also one problem I've found in other games I've been in that stick to systems is that over time players tend to start caring more about their stats then playing the game.




But as posting IC has stalled for now I have a question unrelated to whether we implement a system or not.

Seeing as none of the first arrivals have actually been taken out yet I was thinking of possibly having Ms. Scott recall everyone now that the rest of the class has arrived, (As I had personally not expected to get all the tank positions filled as quickly as we did). So if we all agree to recall the practice field tanks there are several possibilities.

1. all practice field tanks recalled, and then Ms. Scott sends everyone out for a full on free for all.

2. all practice field tanks recalled and then Ms. Scott sends everyone back out but after putting them on two or more teams.

3. Practice field tanks are not recalled, but notified that the rest of the class mates have arrived and are joining them in a free for all but does not tell the practice field crews where the new tanks are going, but neither does she tell the new crews where the practice field tanks are.

This message was last edited by the GM at 01:37, Sat 29 Apr 2017.

The Judge
 GM, 50 posts
Sat 29 Apr 2017
at 01:51
Re: ooc
or here.

every shot you roll a die, the harder the target, or more precise your aim needs to be to hit a specific target the larger the die you have to roll and the greater your rolled number has to be.

for example the T95 has two raised Cupolas on top, according to War Thunder these are the only forward weakness the tank has, but their about 6in tall and roughly 2ft wide with curved sides and wider at the bottom then at the top.

so your at long range and are trying to hit that Cupola to knock out the tank, you roll a 1d20 because of the long range and the small target your trying to hit, the higher the number you roll on the die the closer you are to hitting what you aimed at so a 1 would be you completely miss, critical failure, a 20 would mean you hit exactly where you aimed.


so then you try to hit the broadside of a barn from 50 ft, roll a 1d2, 1 your an extremely bad aim and can't hit the broadside of a barn, 2 congrates you can hit the broad side of a barn with a tank
Magie Vrajitoare
 Student, 48 posts
 Team Coven
 Hemlock - T-34/85
Sat 29 Apr 2017
at 01:59
Re: ooc
The Judge:
But I also want the players to think of ways to take a underdog team and get it a win by using different strategies against a better force or bigger force.

With all due respect, I don't think you can call any team that has both a T95 and a Tiger II an underdog team, especially since all our other tanks are pretty high-quality as well! Not like we're using recently submerged Stug IIIs!

quote:
Also one problem I've found in other games I've been in that stick to systems is that over time players tend to start caring more about their stats then playing the game.

Which is why the characters don't have stats, only the tanks do, and they don't change.
quote:
But as posting IC has stalled for now I have a question unrelated to whether we implement a system or not.

Seeing as none of the first arrivals have actually been taken out yet I was thinking of possibly having Ms. Scott recall everyone now that the rest of the class has arrived, (As I had personally not expected to get all the tank positions filled as quickly as we did). So if we all agree to recall the practice field tanks there are several possibilities.

I loathe "losing ground" and it feels like that's what would happen if our tanks are recalled for any reason. I'd prefer just a general "game on!" announcement, then we all suddenly need to worry about all the new tanks just showing up.

-Ken
Vallia Jaegergraf
 player, 6 posts
Sat 29 Apr 2017
at 02:17
Re: ooc
We are no way a underdog when we have a tiger II H with a 105. And a t95 with a completley To big 155mm Ripped from a long tom OH That has a 3 round auto-loader. We are university level at-least.

If we lose to anyone we are idiots.

This message was last edited by the player at 02:46, Sat 29 Apr 2017.

The Judge
 GM, 51 posts
Sat 29 Apr 2017
at 02:52
Re: ooc
we have less tanks then most of the other teams we would be facing and neither the T95, even with the mods, or the Tiger II are invulnerable. But the purpose for those two was that the school wanted to make a statement that they where coming back into tankery to win and win big.

don't forget that none of our characters have known each other or worked with each other and that is something we will have to develop IC, so at first in the first official match there might be problems just because our crews are not used to working with the other crews and trusting in them. so that can be an underdog situation right there. Also even a team with big heavy's can be considered and underdog if their new like our team is


also even with the upgraded engines I original wrote in and the one I was eventually planning on having put in, the T95 is still going to be slower then most other tanks which can be a disadvantage to the team as a whole if the T95 gets caught away from the rest. It can handle one, maybe two tanks on it's own if lucky. But it's like the Germans in concern to the firefly, all German tank crews had standing orders, if they saw a group of tanks with a firefly the firefly was to be the top priority target, Most enemies are going to want to remove the greatest threat, and that would be between the Tiger and the T95, so I would figure they would be priority targets, and everyone going slow because of one tank makes everyone a target.


and even in the anime tanks suffered from problems they had in real life, a good example is in the Ooaria vs kuromoromina battle, where the subcommander has the Panzer4 in her sights when a track breaks, and that's what tigers are known for mechanical failure. It's documented that almost half if not more of the tiger and tiger II tanks lost where lost due to mechanical failures and the crews scuttling them


But also I had not expected almost everyone to create already well experienced crews when the original tank line up was set so we had figured on inexperienced crews having to learn not only the tanks, but also how to fight them, at the same time and in a hurry. But didn't want the school to be as bad off as Ooria was and in a bit better shape to actually win big.
the other judge
 GM, 35 posts
Sat 29 Apr 2017
at 08:29
Re: ooc
With all of this discussion I feel the need as the other judge ((even if though that title sits very loose on my head...)) to point in with my personal opinion.

In the issue with having dices to see what the effects of a shot will be I suggest this... The player rolls a 1d20 dice right before posting their shot. I will look over the current position of both attacking and attacked tank and consider how high the dice was to consider it a sucessful hit!

For example if the attacked Tank has it's front facing the enemy at a medium range  I might need a die of atleast 12 to consider it a hit... But if it's the side I might only need a 10 to consider it a hit...

On be half of the stalled posting I suggest that the most kunning and most beautiful miss Scott suggest that the tanks in the arena already ((Except the T95)) join together to form one team to battle the incoming Tanks and the T95... Fair right? But have the M24 join them already in the arena

So here it is

Tiger II
COMET
T-34 85
Sherman firefly
M24 Chaffe

Vs

T95
Sherman Jumbo
Panther D
SU 85
Jagdpanzer

Or we could have three teams...

Sherman Jumbo
Panther D
SU 85
Jagdpanzer

Vs

COMET
T-34 85
Sherman firefly
M24 Chaffe

Vs

T95
Tiger II

Teamwork is something those guys need to work on...
Sini Jokela
 Student, 48 posts
 Team Wolverine
 M4 Sherman Firefly
Sat 29 Apr 2017
at 08:45
Re: ooc
My few cents on the recent discussion about rules and die: I'm not too fond on die based systems but it's alright if the majority agrees on them. I just want, like Magie, to have fun by building a story with others with innovative writing and tactics.

From those suggestions I would go with the current tanks teaming up on the new ones :)

This message was last edited by the player at 09:11, Sat 29 Apr 2017.

The Judge
 GM, 52 posts
Sun 30 Apr 2017
at 22:54
Re: ooc
how would the rest of you feel if I had my student character and her crew occasionally switch to an older light tank for some matches.


As I had had an idea about introducing this tank in some way just because I find the tank interesting, as it was originally built for the U.S. and might even still hold the world record for the fastest tank, but the U.S. decided not to use it. The manufacture then sold the hulls to Russia as Farm Tractors and Russia then put their own design turret on them. And a version of this tank is in the Movie.

Also the top speed the U.S. military clocked their version of the tank at was 104mph, and that was without tracks.
Elena Vladimirovna Kournikova
 Student, 17 posts
 M24 Chaffee
 Bystrey, bystreye!
Mon 1 May 2017
at 00:17
Re: ooc
In reply to The Judge (msg # 242):

Only if you nickname the tank 'The Flash' and paint it red.
The Judge
 GM, 53 posts
Wed 10 May 2017
at 22:00
Re: ooc
sorry for disappearing like I have I was a lot busier RL then I expected and havn't been feeling the best, I'll try to get things going again tonight or tomorrow evening at the latest.
The Judge
 GM, 55 posts
Fri 2 Jun 2017
at 02:04
Re: ooc
everyone can post IC
Sini Jokela
 Student, 49 posts
 Team Wolverine
 M4 Sherman Firefly
Fri 2 Jun 2017
at 20:13
Re: ooc
Gonna be busy this weekend, don't know if I have time to post but will try.
Magie Vrajitoare
 Student, 49 posts
 Team Coven
 Hemlock - T-34/85
Sun 4 Jun 2017
at 22:43
Re: ooc
Aside from Sini, we've not really heard from anyone else. I'm eager to re-start the game, but I also don't want to spend time crafting an opening post if no one else is going to be participating.

Is anyone else still in and just waiting to post for some reason?

-Ken
The Judge
 GM, 56 posts
Mon 5 Jun 2017
at 12:54
Re: ooc
all but one person has been on yesterday or today so they are still lookin into the game so I assume they just don't want to be the first to post, and we have also now lost Sugita
Magie Vrajitoare
 Student, 50 posts
 Team Coven
 Hemlock - T-34/85
Mon 5 Jun 2017
at 22:17
Re: ooc
OK, if I have time tonight, I'll make an opening post for Team Coven, to see if it gets the ball rolling for anyone else.

-Ken
Magie Vrajitoare
 Student, 51 posts
 Team Coven
 Hemlock - T-34/85
Wed 7 Jun 2017
at 04:33
Re: ooc
Gonna wait for Elicia to respond to Amanda before posting as Magie and the Coven.

-Ken
Magie Vrajitoare
 Student, 52 posts
 Team Coven
 Hemlock - T-34/85
Thu 8 Jun 2017
at 07:22
Re: ooc
Gonna wait for the doors to open to wake up Magie and the crew. :)

-Ken
Elena Vladimirovna Kournikova
 Student, 19 posts
 M24 Chaffee
 Bystrey, bystreye!
Tue 4 Jul 2017
at 01:29
Re: ooc
So is it safe to assume this game has been put to rest?
Amanda Jackson
 Student, 34 posts
 Let's roll ladies!
 Give me a rebel yell!
Tue 4 Jul 2017
at 21:13
Re: ooc
Sadly looks that way. T_T
Magie Vrajitoare
 Student, 53 posts
 Team Coven
 Hemlock - T-34/85
Tue 4 Jul 2017
at 23:16
Re: ooc
GM is playing in my Strike Witches game, but hasn't checked in since 6/15. I believe I recall some ongoing health issues which may be the culprit?

I'm leaving it up on my feed, but I'm afraid the game may be DOA, yeah. :(

-Ken
The Judge
 GM, 57 posts
Mon 17 Jul 2017
at 23:53
Re: ooc
health issues have been the primary culprite for my disappearance and I'm sorry about that.

But I am also going to ask if anyone else here would like to take over as GM for this game or if I should advertise in the GM wanted thread.

I really would like to see this game continue but with my current issues I don't have the time to devote to it as a primary gm and with the fact that this game has gone the same way as all the previous games I'm created it really is making me think I'm just not cut out to gm.
no matter what I do plan to stay with the game.

so here's what I had planned for the backstory and the reason why no matter what I want the T-95 tank to stay on the tank roster.


in the schools heyday it was at the worst, the fourth best in sensha-do and at the best 1st, though this usually changed year to year but it was pretty much always San Fran high and three schools that continuesly switched between first through fourth. But with the closing the the free Strategy tankery school, SF high lost some of it's best incoming students as they offered scholerships to any new freshmen coming from that school. The next several years after that the schools position in sensha-do started to slip with them dropping year after year, until the school decided to save what reputation in the sport it had and stopped tankery when the school had dropped to 10 on the list of sensha-do schools. in the years since they sold off the more expensive tanks, but tried to keep enough to eventually reform a decent team.

When the school realized that without sensha-do their attendance was falling and with it their finances they tried alternatives and for a time they worked but at this point the school is not in dire straights yet for being shut down but within the next several years it could very easily become a possibility, so they decided to restart shensa-do with their remaining tanks and hired a former Shensa-do ace to teach the team. This teacher on learning the state of things called in a favor with an old team mate and former principle of the free strategy school for help. They decided that this would also be a good time to bring back the free strategy school of tankery, so the principle talked her daughter into transferring and had her take the families t-95 as their way of saying the school was back and was out to take back their place as number one.
Magie Vrajitoare
 Student, 54 posts
 Team Coven
 Hemlock - T-34/85
Tue 18 Jul 2017
at 10:17
Re: ooc
As much as I want to see the game continue, I don't have the time to GM another game. I will stay of someone picks up the reins, though.

-Ken