Discuss ideas for future games here. What do you enjoy? What tribunals? What aspects of gameplay? Are there any published adventures you've been wanting to try?

So, this forum started with a few of us bouncing around some ideas. Shadowsmith and I had both suggested smaller covenants could be better, with players controlling relatively few characters and not requiring the SG(s) to control lots of covenfolk. Here are some other things I've seen as killers:

• Having the group as a whole write out a charter.
• Too much time between starting and playing (character generation, the above point, etc.)
• The standard disappearance in RPoL and other online games.

I think ArM can handle some of this particularly well. Specifically, with troupe-style play some of the disappearance can be mitigated. A player disappears, and their magus works in the lab while others control the grogs they used to until they return or just fade away. ArM is worse for the prior two points, but they can be mitigated. That was part of the reason for the suggestion of small numbers.



Along these lines, I'm running a game that seems to be collapsing. It started with a core of Tremere and Mercurians (some overlap). A lot was planned based on this. All three have disappeared, thankfully with notice, but still. So now lots of integral plot points have become derailed just as we start to move along better. I think I have a pretty dedicated few with me, and I don't think competing for players with another game is necessarily in our interests. I've started to wonder if porting over characters (with changes if players desire) and merging them into a new game with multiple SGs and very few non-magi to cut down on busy-work would be a good thing. At the same time, I don't want to cut into that other player's (who suggested running something) ideas. Just looking to bounce some ideas around and see if maybe there is a win-win here somewhere.

I am of the opinion that we should turn this into a purely-politics type game.  Everyone create characters, every RL "Season" get XP for character development...  30 per year breaks down to 7.5 per season.  Maybe bonus XP dependent on storytelling the adventures of your Covenant in a storytelling thread.... allowing up to 15 XP per season?

Most of the Magi spend most of their time time out adventuring, so a purely-tribunal sort of game (could even break it down to parts of the world) would be a fun way to play our favorite characters, and not need GMing or the sort...  Thoughts?

Well, here is a summary of the interests of those who I mentioned discussing it (individual placements/votes at the right):

1. Exploring magical/mystical places 1,1,2,2
   
2. Character development 1,1,2,3
   
3. Roleplaying, relationships, diplomacy 2,3,3,3
   
4. Combat 4,4,4,5
   
5. Management of the covenant and covenfolk 4,5,5,5
   
6. Historically realistic setting 6,6,6,6

As exploring and character development easily beat out relationships/diplomacy, I don't think relationships/diplomacy is where I would try to go with this.



Out of curiosity, how do you manage purely politics without GMing? Personally, I find politics to require the heaviest GMing because someone secretly needs to know the goals of all sorts of NPCs and of groups that might include PCs among the NPCs or not. I find heavy exploring and character development less GM-heavy since the GM is barely needed for development and exploring can involve isolated places so that all sorts of connections need not be known and can be handled by lots of GMs not in the know about lots of background info on NPCs.

On the troupe-style end, I could see focusing on points 1, 2, and 4 for exactly that non-GM dependent reason and have an alpha storyteller whose responsibility is more point 3.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:14, Sun 14 May 2017.

The problem with a more-than-politics, is that it's stops being a community, and becomes a game.  Pure-politics simply means roleplaying without rules, by my definition.  Maybe we could start defining covenants around the world, building each according to the desires of people living in the area...

I don't know all the hows/wheres, just throwing ideas out there.

Were I made aware of the voting, I would have chosen Character Development as first, Roleplaying as 2nd, Covenants as 3rd.

Oh, you mean this here? I was thinking about for the creation of a future game, not as what to do with this forum.

The original idea of Ars was a one magus/one companion setup with grogs being a communal resource for role-playing.  Having multiple companions muddies the waters and widens the cast too far in my opinion so I agree with callen there.  It's nice to have a big ensemble cast but it can get tiresome if you feel like you must play all of them.

In the case of the game callen mentions, the covenant premise was designed around a group of active players with solid Magi concepts/characters who decided to bow out.  Characters like that are big holes to fill in the Saga.  Primarily because they were so invested in being the heart of the covenant as designed.  I've always been curious as to why someone would design a character to be so vested and then bow out (barring IRL issues, of course).  I've seen it in several games I've played in.

The covenant itself is sometimes a game breaker I've noticed.  Creating a new covenant takes time, interest and a very granular rule-set...not to mention a very clear vision of it as a very large character in your game.  Joining an existing covenant gives the characters a quicker entrance into playing but can restrict the numbers of players (from an already stated small base) interested in joining it and relegates then to being junior members or outsiders for a period of time.

 I've ran Sagas with the troupe joining a failing covenant, resurrecting one that had been lost and starting a wholly new covenant and all of those methods seemed to have their own unique issues.  It's super handy when you have a couple of players enthusiastically take charge of handling big portions of creating the covenant but that runs the risk of burn out or losing interest.  Idk what the answer is beyond having players and StoryGuides whose interest doesn't burn out after a while.

One way to use zylphyr's idea would be to have a large pool of characters existing in the same world. A GM could offer to run an adventure--rather than a whole saga--and anyone who's interested could join that adventure. The challenge would be coordinating it all--having a standard system for seasons, power level, items, and XP. (I'm thinking of something similar to Paizo's Pathfinder Society.) Characters could participate in tribunal politics if they want, or leave it alone. Whatever works. :)

The data Callen so kindly compiled was based on four responses: mine, his, and two other people who haven't joined this forum yet. I'd love to see the rest of your opinions--how would you rank those four aspects of Ars Magica?

(I was the oddball who said that covenant management is more fun than combat. :) )

One thing that has been tried on a small scale is Sagas existing in the same 'universe' so to speak. Callen and Shadowsmith's games nominally exist together though they may never have characters interact.

I've always thought that was a solid concept but the limited number of players and StoryGuides probably precludes that from being a prominent feature but would make for a really cool Grand Tribunal!
This message was last edited by the player at 00:59, Mon 15 May 2017.

1. Roleplaying, relationships, diplomacy
   
2. Management of the covenant and covenfolk
   
3. Historically realistic setting
   
4. Character development
   
5. Exploring magical/mystical places
   
6. Combat

I never realized how much of an oddball I was when it came to Ars Magica until I saw how different my preferences were than those expressed so far.

I do think, in terms of RPOL, that covenant creation would be a more arduous task than in person, because it requires a hefty dialogue to come to consensus.  I think a way to combat that problem would be for the storyguide to create some sort of "default" covenant, complete with charter, and then let the players change it if they want.  That would streamline the discussion to only actual ideas that the players feel about strongly.

1. Roleplaying, relationships, diplomacy
   
2. Character development
   
3. Exploring magical/mystical places
   
4. Management of the covenant and covenfolk
   
5. Combat
   
6. Historically realistic setting

  "Historicity" is not something that draws the to Ars Magica though I do enjoy the more grounded setting.  Some folks enjoy the minutiae of medieval life but I am not one of them.  A sense of atmosphere is all I require.
  Combat is deadly and should be avoided if at all possible but that doesn't mean that you have to be helpless.  Certamen falls into this category for me as well.  If push comes to shove, characters I play will fight but I'm not one who goes looking for a fight.

Because my vote would be harder to count/notice if anyone is keeping track, I'm re-writing it to format here:

1. Character Development.
2. Roleplaying, relationships, diplomacy.
3. Management of Covenant and Covenfolk.
4. Exploring Magical/Mystical places.
5. Combat.
6. Historically realistic setting.

Currently places the votes at (where lowest is best):


Character Development: 14
Roleplaying:           15
Exploring:             18
Coven:                 28
Combat:                33
Realism:               39

However, I think the later votes may be a vote for what they'd like here, as to opposed in an actual game, because given an actual game, exploring for me would go up one rank, and the coven down 1 rank.

Here is the current tally of preferences (presumably for a game, as opposed to here, as zylphyr pointed out). I'm not sure I really want to think of them as votes, though that just gets into semantics I guess.

I don't usually just do sums of votes because of oddities that tend to arise. For instance 1, 1, 1, 2, 6 would lose to 2, 2, 2, 3, 1 (with voters in the same order) just because a single voter rated them 6 and 1 even though four out of five prefer the first. That's why thing like the skating system are set to counter-balance the effects of marks on either extreme. Right now I think any method would get the same order (2nd v 3rd would split the same way with tie-breakers), though.

1. Character development 1,1,1,2,2,3,4
   
2. Roleplaying, relationships, diplomacy 1,1,2,2,3,3,3
   
3. Exploring magical/mystical places 1,1,2,2,3,3,5
   
4. Management of the covenant and covenfolk 2,4,4,4,5,5,5
   
5. Combat 4,4,4,5,5,5,6
   
6. Historically realistic setting 3,6,6,6,6,6,6

We still have a small enough sample size that it doesn't necessarily tell us what is normal for Ars Magica players in general. Just what is normal for our 7 participants. :)

In reply to statesman88 (msg # 14):

Good Afternoon All.  Thanks for having me.

I’ll admit upfront that I joined for very specific reasons.  I love Ars Magica.  But I’ve never been involved in a game that lasted longer than the first story.  There are varying patterns around the game disintegrations, but it usually comes down to power struggles of some kind in either the covenant building or character creation stages.  Then again, most of the games I was part of were on one particular forum.  So that may have had something to do with it as well.

Over the years (decades) I’ve accumulated several games I was going to run when it was my turn to SG.  But because the main game came apart, I never got that turn.  Recently I decided I was going to try to run some of those storylines here on RPOL.net. I had gotten as far as creating the forum and putting up the first post before other games and RL demanded my attention.

With two of my other games starting to wind down and my job situation settling, I was thinking about going back to work up some of these dormant stories.  My approach is a bit different than the usual ArM game though.  Essentially, the games are either one shots or mini-campaigns.  Sandboxes for one or two characters.  That way, it wouldn’t matter as much if people left.

It may be that I’m now a bit gun shy about troupe style play.  But I wanted to see how such an approach might sound, as well as perhaps get some feedback about which game ideas sound the most interesting.  A couple of them are below to give an idea of what I’m talking about.

Thanks.

- ‘Judges’.  A mini-campaign for one or two magi, at least one from House Guernicus.  The game follows a Quaesitor fresh from gauntlet as they begin their career in Hermetic law enforcement.  There would be the odd Scooby mystery style game.  But I would also want to focus on Hermetic and Tribunal politics, diplomacy with the Mundane and Fae, and probably the oddball ‘How Many Diabolists Can You Spot In This Picture’ style game.

- ‘The Cat Came Back’.  Styled after Deadly Legacy and similar mini campaigns.  A magical cat hires a couple of magi and their entourage to find the missing Jerbiton whose familiar he was supposed to become.  Would involve travel across Mythic Europe, intrigue, and some action sequences.  Originally this was going to be a lead off for a troupe game as it would give the characters’ familiarity with a few possible covenant sights across three tribunals.

-An apprentice style game.  The difference here is that this would be less Harry Potter and more Charles Dickens.  Players would not only have to learn magic.  They would have to survive it.  The original concept had players unable to directly choose what house they went to.  Also, there would be a lot of in house rules as I’m not a huge fan of some of the cannon rules for apprentices.

In reply to statesman88 (msg # 14):

One question on ya'lls votes.  When you say 'Character Development', do you mean the mechanical development through the game rules?  Or Development in a more story related way?  It's been my experience different people mean that term in different ways.  Didn't want to assume.  Thanks.

What issues do you have with the Apprentice supplement?  I've read through it but haven't really digested it mentally.

In reply to warjoski (msg # 16):

I lumped mechanical growth and personal story development together. But they're not the same thing. If you want a system of gamer motivations that's more rigorous, Google the research of Nick Yee. :)

I'm currently running Griffin Hall, an apprentice game set in a Winter covenant (link to another game). I started with seven players and I'm down to four. At some point, I might be recruiting for a new apprentice or two, but not yet.

I actually love building and managing a covenant, but I've watched it kill game after game here on RPoL. I could see having it as a side thread for one or two players while the main story is something more active and appealing to the larger audience.

In reply to witchdoctor (msg # 17):

I like the way they work out the growth mechanics.  In fact I think it's very well done.

Where it falls apart for me is that part of the apprentice system is based on the carbon copy approach.  I don't have my copy of the book in front of me at the moment.  So I can't give specific quotes.  But in a nutshell, if the master has a flaw or virtue, the apprentice ends up with it.  If the apprentice has a flaw or virtue the master doesn't, it will be lost at some point.  This is just in relation to Gift related flaws and virtues for the most part.  Though I believe it also can apply to others in some cases.  And I am not speaking of flaws or virtues required by a lineage or tradition.

For example if the Master has Deficient Ignem, than it stands to reason his Apprentice will probably have some difficulty with Ignem.  I believe the cannon would require that difficulty to be Deficient Ignem.  That seems somewhat arbitrary to me.  It could be the Master's Gift just lacks something causing the flaw.  The Apprentice's Gift might not have that lack.  I would prefer the player handling the apprentice have some leeway as to how their character progresses in virtues and flaws.  No child is ever going to turn out exactly like their parents.

In reply to warjoski (msg # 20):

That doesn't sound right. The master may choose to teach Hermetic Virtues they have and may give Hermetic Flaws they have to make the process easier. But generally, outside of the House Virtue, they don't pass on any V/F automatically.

I've always enjoyed the idea of a covenant having apprentices running around but have never gotten far enough along in a saga to really have that.  Some may find the idea tedious but bringing up the next generation of magi was always something  I looked forward to. Most Tribunals have an absolutely haphazard way of discovering and treating Gifted children (with the notable exception of the Thebans) that makes me wonder how The Order manages to perpetuate itself...

In reply to callen (msg # 21):

You are correct. My mistake.  I was misremembering part of the book detailing childhood.

What type of Saga would interest you all individually?  Setting, theme, goals?

I love games where my character is able to build or create something that will make a lasting change to the world. This could be a building, an organization, or a greater understanding of magic.

I could see having a lot of fun playing a group of wizard/explorers. We could have a covenant that travels on a group of wagons. Or if we want to go High Fantasy, a small flying island.

That could be a really cool thing. Something a bit different, too. I like that it would make a small group of characters intimately involved with each other much more so than at a typical covenant. Here are some variants on the same thing, depending on how the characters approach it:

• Wagon train of sorts.
• Flying island.
• Flying castle.
• Ship(s) (flying or not).
• A Tardis (lower-tech, of course), care of a Merinita with Glamour.

I feel obligated to add "giant turtle" to that list. Not a incomprehensibly large one, like A'Tuin of Discworld: just 150 feet or so in diameter, walking slowly from place to place.

That's the type of game that is what I'm looking for. Research and exploration, but travelling and visiting diverse places.

An ancient malfunctioning hermes portal, that opens up temporary two-way connections to standing stones or ruins throughout Europe, perhaps seemingly randomly or according to some hard to decipher astronomical influences.  However, it becomes increasingly likely that the places it opens up always have something that you need, or need something from you.

Could something, God or a pagan deity or something with the Magical Realm (perhaps a Magus in Twilight?) be influencing the portal, and through it, the covenant and its magi?

Perhaps sometimes it open to an unknown regio. In an early adventure, we could recruit a warrior who serves as a local knowledge source.

To protect our covenant, we'd need to develop some sort of door that can be closed to prevent things from coming through to us when we don't want them.

Ah, StarGate SG1, I really enjoyed that show. Far more than I should have.

For modern, alternate settings, I'd wondered about a few things:

1. What Abilities would need to be added while keeping things simple?
   
2. How would things like computers fit into Hermetic magic?
   
3. If magi have nearly disappeared, maybe they're mostly hiding out in regios. Maybe everyone has the Gentle Gift because others don't make it.
   
4. You could probably set some Harry Potter-like stuff by requiring certain Flaws, such as Necessary Condition (Wand) or similar.

As for something I'd like to play, I like a mix of adventure, diplomacy, character development, and conflict (not necessarily straight combat). But, most importantly, something people could commit to so it wouldn't die. I like to build my character into the setting to provide flavor and motivation, so things like one-shots don't do it for me.

In reply to callen (msg # 31):

Originally, I believe Mage:the Awakening was supposed to be the modern setting for Ars back when White Wolf owned both properties.  Tremere intellectual property is still a bit of a sticking point for licencing, if I remember correctly.

New Abilities would definitely be required, allowing for technology mainly.  Texts would definitely benefit from print and especially the internet.  Magic would have to change as well to integrate the new world.  I could see The Order collapsing into a tiny organized underground and losing A LOT of knowledge base, possibly including Parma Magica but the Gift evolving to be less harsh on mundanes due to 'evolutionary' pressure.
Imagine a wizard returning from Twilight into such an age...  Come to think of it, I think they covered that in Mage already.

I have been interested in Ars Magica for many years, but until I just got 4th edition, all I ever had was first edition, with few chances to play, so my "interests" are not based on much experience in the game. For what they are worth, I list them below, with the ones I am most interested in listed on top.
 Regarding "historically realistic setting," I have studied medieval history professionally and like the idea of fitting a campaign into a specific historic place and time, though I am not especially interested in technical issues such as how much chain armor might weigh.

1. historically realistic setting
2. Exploring mystical etc. places
3. Combat
4. Character development (in terms of creating a fictional background for the character, not the technical mechanics of character creation)
5. Roleplaying, relationships, diplomacy
6. Management of coven and coven folk

In reply to jleland (msg # 33):

There aren't many folks well versed in history enough to play in a good historically accurate setting.  My first Storyteller was a graduate student studying the middle ages and was quite the stickler for accuracy...and a good Storyteller.  But I never really required that level of attention to detail to enjoy his games or anyone else's.
We all have things we enjoy and slide that into our games when we can.  Most of the Ars stories I've ran have had a strong horror element to them.  'Historicity' may be the same with you.  I do admire the folks who can pull of the historical accuracy.  That takes some good research skills.

@jleland - Cool! It'd be interesting to play with you as a GM and see all that detail inform the adventure. :) I read somewhere that Tolkien's masterful worldbuilding came from a similar background in medieval history and culture. I agree with witchdoctor that not everyone can pull it off.

As for the modern era... Hermetic magic was explicitly based on medieval and classical natural philosophy, if I understand it correctly. In other words, Bonisagus's overarching theory of magic was informed by that worldview. That leads to a big question for modern Ars Magica games: have modern perspectives on reality been incorporated into the old magic system?

What would happen if a magus took Newton's Third Law into account--would the magus become aware of new costs of magic? Could a magus cast Creo magic without believing in the ideal, metaphysical world of Forms? Would relativity lead to a breakthrough in understanding the passage of time in regiones, or the development of spells to speed or slow time? Would Terram, Aquam, Ignem, and Aurum be rethought as the four phases of matter, or replaced by categories of elements/compounds? Would there be new categories of magic for interacting with fungi, microorganisms, viruses, or computers? Gravity/orbit spells? Spells to control light and sound?

Would Hermetic magic develop new branches of Newtonian or Einsteinian magic? (I'm sure Einstein was a magus. :) ) Would there be controversy or unity among the magi over such changes in thought? Would nuclear magic be forbidden? Could a new type of magic overcome the deceptions of devils, or bypass other limitations of Hermetic magic?

Edit: would the first law of thermodynamics make both Creo and Perdo magic impossible?
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:22, Wed 17 May 2017.

There was a short discussion about an Ars Saga set in the newly "discovered" New World, circa 1500-ish, some time ago in one of the other rPol forums.  The discussion was quite creative with just about every person having their own great and well thought out ideas of how things could be.

This discussion reminded me of that one.

I think the biggest problem with moving Ars Magica forward in time is that the setting will stop looking like anything resembling the real world very quickly. The primary factor that forces the Masquerade in Ars Magica is that the catholic church says that all witchcraft is illegal and wants to kill you for being a witch. But once you get a hundred or two hundred years into the future and the Renaissance begins, the catholics start losing their power, the science advances and the world will quickly embrace magic. There's no real reason for AM wizards to stay in shadows when they can join the university or a court and secure a research grant without being burned alive.

Also, it may be just me, but I've always thought that the "aristotelan physics" boner of the 5e is a result of 5e writers having their heads too far up their asses. Not only does such world makes no sense (aristotelan physics don't work in a real world and are hard to imagine) but also it puts a massive entry requirement on anyone new joining the game.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:59, Wed 17 May 2017.

One problem I see with advancing Ars Magica too far forward is that things work like they do because everyone believes that they do. Since disease is caused by a misbalance in the four humors anything like scientific investigation will reinforce that belief.

In the real world, science advances by observing how the world works and showing how that breaks from the existing belief of how things work. Then you alter the idea of how it works and observe some more. But in Ars Magica, how they believe things work is how they work. Science would reinforce the existing belief.

The Laws of Thermodynamics simply don't work in the world of Ars Magica. The Law of Gravity is also not a thing. In the world of Ars Magica heavy things will fall faster than light things.

This is one of the things that appeals to me about Ars Magica. I like the odd way the world works. I'm the one who brought up the idea of a 17th Century game set in the New World. But I had no intention of changing how magic and the world works.

I hadn't thought of the reality of medieval beliefs as extending to the laws of the physical world. I assumed that folklore was true, but not natural philosophy.

Art & Academe is one of my favorite sourcebooks for 5e. Someday I want to play a character who gets seriously involved in Experimental Philosophy. Ideally, he would be a Learned Magician from Hedge Magic Revised.

In reply to statesman88 (msg # 39):

I seem to recall a thread on the Atlas Forum which discussed why there wasn't much development interest in a sourcebook on Marco Polo type exploration. One reason I believe was given was that it would take the cannon out of the Mediaeval Paradigm that so much of it was based on.

I also recall a discussion along these lines about how the various Houses might adapt to changes over time. For example, someone suggested House Criamon might take to the Internet. A sort of Nueromancer type search for the Enigma more or less. Jerbiton would be headquartered in Los Angeles. That sort of thing.

One conclusion I think was made would be that Covenants would no longer be necessary either. Magi would no longer need to co-habitat to share information.

To the point already made in other folks posts, I think Ars Magica would not be the same game outside the Mythic European setting. But it would be interesting to run a game where Players must deal with non-Hermetic magics and belief systems, such as in a Marco Polo type game or New World exploration game.

Along another set of lines, I've always been curious about playing in a game where a covenant's purpose is to reach the moon.

Hi there, everybody.

I tried to get an Ars Magica game going about a year ago, but I was too ambitious and unwilling to demand the players generate some material for me, so it ended up going nowhere.

I'd like to try again, and some of the ideas here make sense to me. Namely, each player would have a magus or a companion (the companion would get the Blood of Heroes Virtue for free in that case).

I wouldn't have a particular story in mind going in, and we'd be in the eastern Rhine or western Novgorod Tribunals. I'm not all that familiar with the Tribunal details, so a lot of stuff wouldn't match with the setting books. In particular, I'm not a fan of a ton of super-powerful NPCs.

I would want to generate stories and adventures through the players and the covenant, using Story Flaws and Hooks, with a few historical events thrown in. I'm big on setting realism, in the sense of portraying the Middle Ages at least partially like it really was. In some ways, this would be "better" than the stereotypes, and in some ways "worse;" e.g., the Church is generally a force for good and figures prominently in everyday life, in Germany and Russia; women had all of the same legal rights as men; including owning their own property, peasants actually weren't that dirty, there were bandits every two miles, the Church didn't persecute magicians but secular authorities often did, etc.

The biggest change I like to make is "wilderness-ifying" the setting, that is, not everything has been explored, the Hermetic Order isn't monolithic, there are lots of hedge magicians with idiosyncratic traditions, and much of Europe is trackless woodlands with all manner of mundane and mythical danger, treasure, glory, and knowledge hidden in the dark and shadows.

I would like to spend more time than it seems to me is usual on the more "mundane" aspects of Hermetic life: producing and acquiring books, experimentation, finding familiars, wheeling and dealing vis and enchanted items, and the down-and-dirty nastiness of Hermetic politics.

The main thing, though, is that I would want my players to generate story material for me, i.e., to feed me ideas to run with on the regular for NPCs, plots, adventures, political machinations, etc.

Does this appeal to anyone?

This seems like a mistake to me. The point of the Troupe system is to solve the linear warrior quadratic wizard problem. And the solution is brilliant - the role of a wizard is rotated between players. That waves away all the balance problems, both between wizards and warriors and also between different wizards. It also creates hooks for internal politics - AM wizards draw power from not going on adventures and sitting in their lab instead. Going out to kill a dragon is a chore that drags you away from bubbling cauldrons and books and home cooking. As such there are meaningful arguments to be had about who should go and solve the problem of the week.

Yes, it does.

In reply to longesway (msg # 43):

The issue many of us have encountered is that with multiple primary characters (magi & companions) in addition to grogs, there ends up being a lot of start-up work and a lot to keep track of in such a way that things get bogged down and games fail. You can still trade off, just play a magus or a grog. That can put a little more emphasis on grogs, too. Good grogs can be just as much fun.

I prefer to let Adventure count as a stacking Source, though taking too long to Adventure would come with time penalty as normal. And of course somebody might steal or sabotage your stuff if you're away too long.

You might consider a request such as "please take one story Flaw" instead of the normal allowing one. You might also ask for characters to have a personality or other Virtue/Flaw that pushes them towards stories as well, such as Driven or Seeker or Gild Training.

I'd second that.

I'd be interested.

I want to emphasize that I'd be asking for quite a bit more than a "normal" DM. Not quite troupe play levels of commitment, but essentially what I'm looking for is players to come up with story seeds. I'd ask that you share your Story Flaws, personality traits, and similar abilities with each other and then send story ideas my way playing off of characters' (yours or someone else's) traits, as well as covenant hooks or "random" ideas.

Essentially looking and planning for adventure instead of waiting for it. :)

A good group of well constructed characters with good players could easily fill as many adventures as a StoryTeller can stomach.

If I'm right, not just being an active character looking for adventures, but being an active player suggesting adventures based on character flaws, covenant hooks, and campaign events. Plus potentially suggesting something cool that could happen.

Yes, Shadowsmith. Active players. The characters could theoretically be cantankerous hermits, but they should still have reasons to get involved in intrigues.

Do people in most games not do that? I thought that was the whole point of Flaws.

People in most games passive-aggressively do nothing and expect the GM to cater to them.

Not that I can really blame people; it's human nature to do as little work as possible. =P

Well, Ascended, when/if you do something, count me in on all counts, especially with plot hooks.  :)

It would be an interesting Saga with player-driven plotlines.  Would you follow all the plots the players produce or be selective about the ones that get to move forward?

In reply to longesway (msg # 55):

I might comment that in a very different sort of game -- a Regency romance sort of setting -- I had a great deal of fun (as a player)introducing -- with the consent of the DM -an outrageous villain who went abut trying to seduce the heroine, frame the heroes for shameful deeds, force them into duels, cheat them at horse races etc. He really livened up the campaign.

They don't need to be huge ideas. "Smaller" ones are probably more useful. For example, a useful idea could be a minor NPC or a dilemma that plays off of the traits and quirks of a particular PC. E.g., a cantankerous magus sabotaging a PC's proposal at Tribunal because the PC's familiar is one that the NPC wanted in the past.

I doubt I would have time to explore all of them. The most likely situation, I think, would be that I would pick the ideas from the players that I felt went well together.

So I've been tossing around an idea for a campaign that may (or may not ever) get off the ground, and I'd like some sanity checks on the premise and the execution.

A powerful covenant in the old viking territories, secluded from much (if not necessarily all) of the politics in the tribunal by the weight of distance and the general poor footing of the Order in general, has ceased sending representatives to tribunal conclaves.  Investigation reveals that the magi have vanished, the covenfolk have retreated to the countryside once again, and the site is overgrown as if it's been abandoned for years, perhaps even decades -- but many of the covenant's magical defenses are still active, in defiance of common sense.  While the tribunal is considering their options on how to deal with this, enterprising PC-types -- local, or who hear the news from afar and conspire -- manage to finagle a claim as the new residents of the tribunal.  They move in to the site, attract most of the covenfolk back to working beneath their auspices, and set up shop trying to unravel the mysteries of the abandoned covenant between their own studies.  The subsequent campaign sees the magi spending their time alternately trying to unlock the secrets of the previous residents, re-establishing the covenant as the power it once was, and dealing with the local powers (mortal and otherwise) who were never tremendously happy in the first place with nosy magi settling in their back yard.

The current group I'm thinking of running this for is the usual 30+ crowd -- we meet maybe a time or two a month and can't guarantee that everyone will be about, so if I were to run this for them, it would be fairly episodic.  The troupe play option (everyone produces one mage and one companion and they decide who's going on a given adventure) will definitely help with attendance -- players who can't show up may not harvest direct benefits from whatever comes out of a given session, but their characters won't be idle in the meantime.

Given these, are there any major holes in the campaign premise or issues that people can see with what I'm planning?  Even if this group decides not to run with this option, I can always recycle the premise for another group.

I think it's pretty cool!

In reply to Zavael (msg # 61):

I think it's a fairly well thought out premise and the Troupe style play will help with your admitted attendance problems.  A lot of Sagas start out with premises similar to the one you laid out.  The physical setting is interesting as not many Sagas start so far away from the Order's main footprint of power/support.  It seems similar to the Levant in that respect; journeying into a land where direct support is scant, unknown dangers lurk and an actively hostile native population of magic users work against the covenant.

The only advice I can give is to have a good grasp on our mysteries and be prepared for the PCs to totally ignore them.  Honestly, the first few years of re-establishing a Covenant will be spent getting the place shored up and stable, then the magi will want to stretch their wings and MAY explore the covenant and it's mysteries but mainly expect them to pursue their own agendas.

As far as books go, I'd read over Hedge Magic and Rivals if you have them handy.  They have large sections that may be pertinent to the setting.  The 4th Ed. sourcebook Ultima Thule may also be helpful if you can find it.

Best wishes for your upcoming campaign!

Seems like there is some activity here! Yay!

So, I've got a game I'd tried starting, and lots of players bailed. I think some of was allowing too much creation, making that whole process drag on. I've figured out some fixes. I also have two enthusiastic players who post regularly. At the same time, I'd like to play a character and think multiple SGs can help make the game more vibrant and more likely to survive.

I have a theme in mind (still Mythic Europe) that would take 3 SG's (two in addition to myself). It would provide for a fair amount of autonomy between SG's and allow players to have different types of pursuits nicely. Meanwhile, it would keep everything a cohesive whole.

Would anyone be interested in being one of the two beta SG's? Once I've got two, I can actually explain the idea without giving away anything I shouldn't give away to non-SG's.

I don’t have a lot to go with, only recently discovering this reality yesterday nestled in my bundle of holding; nor do I know what is going on here at the Covenants but I do have an idea. Let me know if it already happening.

I want to create a character to play in a covenant, a sense of community with its members for decades (in game no doubt). I want the sense of a house of a band of wizardly brothers (and sisters) guided by high principles and goals. A company occupying a maddening magical ala Castle Falkenstein Keep on the Borderlands, that peasants look up to and explode.

Besides that I wonder, has anyone ever explored the possibility of combining Ars Magica with the feel, lore, vocabulary and setting of The Dying Earth- for Rhialto is Marvelous!

Further, is there Ars Magica fiction, books based on the setting?
This message was last edited by the player at 18:29, Thu 24 Aug 2017.

There is fictional stories within the books, but as for Novels set using the Ars Magica setting, Not really.

I've been thinking that an Ars Magica game set early in the Order could be interesting. Or even mixing the early Order history with the Arthurian Mythos.

An early English covenant could provide a Merlin figure. Faerie would be more powerful and common as would hedge magic traditions. The Dominion is just getting a foothold as many of the lower class still hold to pagan beliefs in private.

Pendragon and the Great Pendragon Campaign could serve as inspiration for the saga. Knights would serve as excellent companion characters as would Saxon or Pict warriors.

The relative lack of books would encourage wizards to adventure more. Vis becomes much more valuable. With the greater power of Faerie, more wizards would be willing to risk using Faerie vis.

This could be a much more fantasy or mythic saga than the usual.

I really wish I had the time to run this.

Its funny you say that, I like Pendragon and Ars Magica so much, they are right next to one another on my bookshelf. I've thought about using them in conjunction too. That would be interesting.

I would play in a game like that for sure, but I'm not familiar enough with the background to run such a game.

I have also thought ArM in the current world would be interesting, with Magic and Faerie existing only in lacunae, the few remaining true wilderness areas, and scattered regios that haven't collapsed.

It wouldn't take much work to turn Ars Magica into a Harry Potter RPG.

Diagonal Alley, the Train, Hogwarts, are all hidden in regions.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:43, Fri 25 Aug 2017.

Confession time.  I did that with one of my games a few years back...  Set it in the location that would eventually become Hogwarts.  Half the fun was being the only one in on the joke  and laying out all the clues and wondering if anyone would figure it out.

Awesome! Did anyone figure it out?

Not that I remember...  It was really a lot of fun playing with the Potter mythos as filtered through Ars Magica and just thinking through how things might change over time from the 13th century to the 20th and how that applied to the realm of Ars Magica and Harry Potter.

  There's actually a lot of concepts and places and ideas that work really quite well between the two universes.  I do think it worked better as a hidden aspect of the game to keep the meta-gaming to a minimum.

I've got one. :) Looking for one more excited SG...

So is anyone running a game like that or is that the way you run a game?

I am not in a position to run my own game.  I just don't have the time to commit to that.
But I've been thinking about it, and I am willing to join you in an assistant/shared SG role.
So if this endeavour is still an ongoing matter; you may count me in.  And I'll do what I can to help.

If you have two regular players, then I guess that makes five of us in the game ... a workable number.

I'm willing to help with server side stuff, pictures, maps, setting the game up, threads, tables, graphs, all the pretty stuff. Or as I like to call them the Logistics.

yeah, you should know (in advance) that I suck at that stuff, big time.

I had a heretical idea of using the scenario and information from Ars Magica but playing a game of De Profundis with that tome of knowledge. Yep, no dice, no mechanics, just the letters of one powerful mage to his group of others, perhaps in the same covenant or not. I will be honest, I would not think of using rpol for this or even guiding it, as my knowledge of the game is rather limited. I just wanted to know what people thought of the idea.

I realize combining these two games is in gaming terms like introducing matter and antimatter, but that big bang may create a whole new universe?

It's that bundle, its got me crazy!

I cracked open and started reading the Apprentices book. Would anyone be interested in a small 4-5 player game, being Apprentices to NPC Magi, in an already established Covenant, getting into the shenanigans that a adolescent Apprentice would get into?

I.e. The Cook of the Covenant needs help, She is afraid to go to the Magi, but her daughter has gone missing. She was last seen picking mushrooms in the forest on the edge of the Covenant. The Cook approaches the Apprentices and asks if they will go and find her Daughter. The Apprentices feel compelled to help. They grew up with the Cooks Daughter and even though shes ungifted, She and the Cook have always treated the Apprentices with respect and niceties.

I was thinking around Thirteen to Fourteen, so there are limited to no Attribute Modifiers. I don't want to go too young. Assume that each of you came to the Covenant at around age five. so you can choose or make up your childhood. Rather you were Wild Born, Covenant Born, Athletic, or Social.

What do you guys think? Any takers? As for Location, Companions, Grogs, and sources allowed, we can all discuss that in the game, if I find players that are interested.

Interested, but I have no idea what most of those terms meant; other than Covenant that one I know.

Well as for Location, there are a few published locations that already have everything you would need to jump right in. Names of NPCs, Covenants. The Published Settings so far for Fifth Edition are,

The Transylvanian Tribunal
The Rhine Tribunal
The Hibernian Tribunal
The Normandy Tribunal
The Theban Tribunal

Fourth Edition has The Stonehendge Tribunal, which is a good sourcebook.

Basically the first step would be picking which Tribunal to have the Covenant be part of. From there concepts can be formed, and i can get the NPC Magi, and the Covenant stated out, If its not already in the book. Then we just drop in the Apprentice Characters. Do the Apprentice Creation, which is a lowered power level than a full starting character of course. I could have a game up and ready for play by the end of the day.

I think a low powered PC might be good for s lower knowledge player- just tell me what to read or prep!

"If you build it, they will come"

At least, I will.

This is what I have so far.

link to another game

NPCs are all added, Sheets added for them, Covenant Information Added, Creation Stuff for Apprentices added. Descriptions of each NPC added. Maps added, Portraits for each NPC added, and Ars Magica Reference charts added, I decided to use the Wandering Covenant, because it opens so much more stories across all of Mythic Europe, or even new lands elsewhere....

So I've got one game running here, but I don't have room to take more players. I know there are more who want to play, including me. But the only other active game is not running in English, not in French which I might be able to pull off, though probably not. :(

Knowing there are several players looking for a game, is anyone interested in starting one up? A good idea showed up but wasn't used: run the Broken Covenant of Calebais to get things started. That way there is far less up-front work and things can get moving along quickly.

I have a horrible track record with running games on here, so I wouldn't tackle one alone.  I wonder how hard it would be to run an actual troupe-style game on RPOL.

The idea I've had for a little while now is something in or near the city of Trebizond, truly the furthest east you can still go and be Hermetic, in the Thebes tribunal.  Plenty of interesting stuff to be done with mythic Persia and the Silk Road, and the city was one of the few never conquered by the Mongols.

In reply to callen (msg # 86):

I am currently running a game IRL, otherwise I would offer, but I really want to actually play a game.
If anyone were to run and want a Beta Story Guide for some adventures, I would be happy to do that, but I really can't commit to managing another saga.

Some aspects are easier online for troupe-style play. For example, players can't tell which SG is running a character. And, if you set a "character" SG as separate from the GM "characters," all SG's/GM's can post through the one voice when running things (as opposed to OOC discussions and the like. Then there is little way to tell who's running what. Meanwhile, character sheets can be moved between players with ease.


I like that general region for reasons you mention and more. I had started an in-person game in Georgia, but that didn't get off the ground with half of us moving.

I'd love to play in the Theban Tribunal, if you do ever decide to run this I'd love to join in. What sort of themes did you want to play with?

New here and new to Ars Magica, but that about the Theban Tribunal sounds fascinating. Would also be interested to find out the sort of stories or themes you're looking to explore.

An idea I ran for friends long ago was the Covenant was located in a time diluting magic regio, based loosely off an old Ars covenant book. Where 2.5 years past in the real world vs inside the regio a single season (10:1) so you were isolated from the order.
It was fun to allow more real world events happen. Cities change, technology creep forward, and my own events in the order to happen.
They came up with a contact in a near by town to be a drop off person for information to be collected for them when they came out. But the amount of information became to much requiring seasons to keep up with it. The time people was all about family trees who begot whom.
I wish it could have made the 60 years (600 years, 1820 AD).

In reply to Tarrent (msg # 92):

That sounds interesting. I'm not sure I'd want to play in it because I know I'd be thinking I could do better getting stuff accomplished with time moving faster. So I'd end up separating my character from the covenant. But that's my problem, not a dis on the setting. Regios do allow for some really cool, different things like that.

Well that was the thing, when outside of the covenant. The 2 weeks you are allowed to do other things and not ruin your season, is amplified to 20 weeks.
And they were told at any point, get off this regio and go find another covenant. I'm a total sandbox person, games are set up in rings. Local, Regional, Tribunal, Order, Continental, World.
I had 2 other locations mapped out for covenants with different quirks, and the group was told that in the beginning.

One was a magic and faerie regio set on top of a hill, when you crossed over the summit of the hill was a much larger valley like a 4th dimensional space.

The last was magic aura with varying adjacent auras of Inferno (Haunted graveyard), Holy (church run town), Faerie (Spring, Grotto, Statue).

Those both sound interesting to me. Any chance you've still got your notes (cutting down on new work) and are interested in trying to run one of those settings? Yes, I'm hunting for a game to play in. :)

I'm in callen's game, but would love to play in another Ars Magica game. I'm not going to try running one again for a bit as I just started running a FATE based superhero game, but I might try running Ars Magica again here in a year or so.

I had this idea a while ago and it still is marinading in the back hearths of my mind.

I would like to see if it were possible to play as a covenant of magi writing letters in the first person. Something like Ars Magica meets De Profundis. All activity of characters would happen through first person letters between various characters.

Is this something that anyone in their right mind would play let alone GM? I just had to throw it out there.

I am not in a position to run another game right now ... but I'd certainly play in it.

I would love to run it, but alas I have never run a AM game before and there is no way that would be my first game to GM.

So, I have an idea for a game.  My biggest concern is that, when I have run past games, if I hit an anxiety spike in my life, I don't answer for a few days, and then I feel anxious/guilty about it, and I don't answer, and the next thing you know the game collapses as I disappear. As long as I had either (a) a group that was cognizant of that (which would lower the anxiety,) and/or (b) a co-storyguide, I'd consider it.

For years, certain members of House Criamon, the Guernicus Terram cult, and a few other groups have been getting portents that something bad was about to be released from under the Isle d'Yf, which had been a Terram cultic site as well as a Diedne covenant.  The bindings of something held in check were loosening.

The Provencal covenant of Coenobium, thinking it was just a ploy to gain a foothold in their backyard, blocked attempts at investigation.  After some worrying incidents against their holdings, they washed their hands of it and allowed five magi to investigate.

Of course, by then, it was too late.  Only two of the five, a Guernicus earth magus and a Merinita, survived.  Now they have called for aid.  Magi would be 5 years past Gauntlet, and ideas filia of the dead Criamon, Tremere and Tytalus Spirit Magus would be given priority.

Thoughts on the concept?  Anybody up to take second chair?  Or players who could deal with my...eccentricities?  Speak up!

Well I'm always open to a play and a slow post rate is fine so long as their an inevitable return. I would love to play the Criamon.

Count me in as a prospective player.

I do not have any source material except the base 5th Ed Rulebook, and therefore know nothing about the cults and group and background of which you speak.
... but am willing to help out as Assistant GM with moving the game along; IF nobody else (with better knowledge) will.

Sounds like a fun game dybbuk67! I would love to play and am quite willing to deal with periodic breaks in play.

Right now I can't commit to being an Assistant or Co-Storyguide as I'm dealing with some stuff. I have a lot of magi concepts bouncing around in my head, some of which I suspect could work for this.

Count me in as a Player, and of course if you need any logistical stuff (You've seen my game, maps, charts, Character screens, organization, etc) I'm your man! But I like the concept, and would love to make another Ars Magica character, that has a game with a laid out direction.

I really like the concept. Since I'm already running a game here, I would not be able to assist as an SG. But I can deal with eccentricities fine.

I've been looking over the Tytalus for the first time in a while, and I would love to give the Spirit Magus a shot.

I might be able to try as a player.

Any update on this, now that I'm back from my trip!

In reply to Thruxus (msg # 108):

Nothing as of yet.  Pondering plot points.  Doing the same thing I do every night.

... Ploting to take over the world, Pinky!

I knew someone would go there!

OF COURSE somebody would go there.
You can’t say something akin to, “What are we going to do tonight, Brain” without somebody going there.

It’s like saying “Do we have a video?”
Or “Munumanahh ...”
Or “Your mother was a hamster ...”

Of course somebody is going to go there.

You didn't think I was setting it up?
And you realize the song is actually "mais non mais non." ("but no")

Oh, I was certain you were setting it up. What surprised me was that I was tempted to go there, and I've never really watched Pinky and the Brain. I was far too old to be their target audience when they stepped onto the stage. Yet somehow that bit has sunk into my mind like a terrifyingly effective ear worm.

In reply to Shadowsmith (msg # 114):

Oh, I'm 50. Get still I dive into all the 90's Amblin toons.

I'm going to *try* to put something up in the next week or so.  Look for Ars Magica: Chateau d'Yf. Magi will be 10 years out of apprenticeship, and I'll consider people starting in Mystery cults, but only one initiation (same for Mystery Houses/Terrae Cultists/Tytalus Spirit Masters).  I will probably be taking 6 players.  As I said earlier, ideas for filia of the Tytalus, Tremere and Criamon are wanted.  (I will consider a filius of the Guernicus and Merinita, but I want to leave a little room for other ideas.)

Don't worry about Companions/grogs yet.  You can start messaging me ideas in advance of the post.

The following has been done here on rpol a couple of years ago, though i dont have access to the game anymore, if it even still exists (the game petered out unfortunately).

I would like to do a game that focuses on the long-term developement of a covenant and its characters. Actual role-playing would NOT be a focus of the game!

I have yet to see a saga that goes for more than a few game years before it stops. There are a lot of detailed rules about long-term developemant that don't really get used because of that. Also i am very interested in the mechanical side of Ars Magica (which makes it very different from other games) and less so in the actual role-playing side (which is less different from other games), especially in the form of an online RPG.

The idea is therefor that we build a covenant together, each player builds 1 magus and 1 companion (companion can be optional if you dont want to), grogs are prolly not needed but could be done if some people are also interested in that.

Then, for each season, every character plans what to do as a seasonal activity.
Then, for each character and for the covenant, there is a small chance that something happens. For example, for each minor flaw, there is a 1% chance that something happens. For each major flaw, there is a 3 % chance. Chances of story flaws are doubled or even trippled. In addition to that, there is a small chance for an event that does not have anything to do with flaws. I think someone posted rules for a solo campaign in the Atlas Games forum, i need to find and check those again. It had something like event tables if i remember correctly, else i/we could create some.
All players decide for themself if and how they want to react to those events. No roleplaying, just general description of what you wanna do, followed by an appropriate skill check and resolution. I envision a maximum of something like 5 posts per character until resolution and then we move on to the next season.


Would anyone be interested in being part of this?
Does anyone have any experiences with such an endeavour, for example from a solo campaign, the above mentioned campaign on here or any others?
Anything else?

In reply to zlorfik (msg # 117):

I would be interested in participating in this 'game'.

I have no experience with such; but have contemplated such a game many times.

And as always, I’ll support any Ars Magics fun on RPoL; so count me in.

Here is the link to the solo play post on the forums i was talking about.

http://forum.atlas-games.com/v...;hilit=solo+campaign

I'm interested.

Well, thats thats zlorfik, Shadowsmith, Pnvq12 and myself interested.

Surely thats enough to give this a test drive.

From my brief read, its designed for Solo Play:  just the one player.
Thusly, I'd assume that there is no ST.
We'd each make a character. and build our shared Covenant together.

Then, each year, we'd each run ourselves through any intrusive events in our character's lives ...
I guess we'd each have our own open thread, that everyone else could see; so that we could all see the unfolding events of the Covenant.
But, essentially, each of us would run our own character though our own individual events ... as the guidelines suggest.


OR are we looking to have one person 'oversee' the whole things, and collaborate as required?

I know the focus is on the mechanics of advancement through the years. But, if I were interested in running a short story for one or more of the wizards and/or companions would that be okay?

I'm not saying that's going to happen, but sometimes I get interesting ideas when randomly rolling for events. Some of my best games were short stories built off of a random roll. I used to run Instant Game because of this.

We can simply embrace Troupe Style play. We're all Storytellers as well as players. We would all be responsible for the game and its development.

I have no problem with that.   I may even join you in the effort.

And I do believe that I would play a Verditius ... as I'd enjoy exploring their journey to the Inner Mysteries of that Cult.

I think that the solo rules are a good starting point, but i did not want to follow them completely. Else it would just be all of us running their own solo stories side by side.

I am torn between sharing the storytelling and having a single storyteller/arbiter of rules and procedures. Sharing of course would mean less work for each of us, but would need procedures in case of disagreement. Also sharing would need to work with an "open source code" so to speak, so there would be no mystery to things.

For example the solo rules make you roll for the difficulty of an event and you then know that one from the start. I imagine it might be more interesting not to have that information. Obviously i am not looking for "haha, the adventure was much more difficult than you thought, you take a crippling wound". But a little bit of keeping people on their toes and adding realism.


I think my next step will be to hash out a little more how i envision the game. Good to know that there is interest and keep the feedback coming.

Concerning running a little "real story" inbetween: Can you elaborate how much time you think that would take? I would not want to hold up the game for some players, so it would probably either need to have all players participating (which needs some players have companions and/or grogs?) or be quite short or be run in a little "time capsule", so that game continues while it runs, which would limit the effects the conclusion could have.

That's a good point. Even something that would take only one or two sessions at the table can end up taking a few months on RPoL. It avoid timing problems, I guess it is best to simply avoid doing this.

As much as I like the mechanics, I'm too into trying to solve a mystery, outwit some opponent, etc. So I don't think this current idea is for me. I hope it runs well, though; I've very hopeful we'll keep ArM5 alive and well here.


Or you port the great ideas you come up with over to a different game you had considered running. Yes, that is a blatant, self-serving nudge/request. :)

So I've touched base with zlorfik, who explains that

So with his blessings, I am going to throw together a game here, based not this premise.

But I have one consideration that I'd like you thoughts on.
These rules are based mostly on Solo Play.  And include the automatic donation of all 'Rewards' (other than Exp and Confidence, of course) to the Solo character's Covenant.

With multiple characters/players, would you suggest:
1/ each PC has/represents their own chantry ... and the game simply be a gathering of individual stories about individual characters at individual Covenants?
     or
2/ (as Facilitator) I set up ONE Chantry, and that the Covenant Charter, require that all such resources be donated to the Covenant? (similarly, and Losses are lost from the Covenant's resources).    In this case, we would also have to agree on a Vis Stipend that each PC can use in the Lab to expand their knowledge and experiments.


As 'Facilitator', I will not be looking to GM the game, just to handle the game admin, and keep things formatted and smooth.


Any thoughts?

I guess I might take that as resounding 'Maybe'   ;-P

Either way, I have set up a new game:   link to another game

I've created for myself a Covenant, and a Character, that I think I'd like to play, and as the weeks progress, I'll be beginning to write Maro's story.

If anyone else is interested in joining me there, please let me know.
You can base yourself out of the same Covenant, if you like, or create your own.

Definitely going to be sending an RTJ. I'm open for either option personally. I like the idea of playing a solo game simply because of the stability of it all but playing without a Covenant proper seems against the spirit of it all. The inverse being group play limits what you may be able to accomplish but I suppose it could be worse.

Looks like the Sardinia saga has died. Not sure if Solstice is going to survive since I was the last to post in a few threads quite a while ago. (Edit: Looks like a few more active voices in Solstice! Yay!)

I write in the Sardinia OOC "Maybe something can be discussed in the Ars Magica Community forum. We should be able to get something going in such a way as we can give breaks to SG's (several beta SG's, perhaps) as well as accommodating player absences (lab work handles a lot) while the game keeps moving along. I'd love to be in a really lasting saga." I'd really love to come up with something that can keep flowing. If we can get a few players interested in being both players and sharing SG responsibilities, we could set something up and discuss. I'd be willing to be a part-time SG if in return I get a long-running saga I can play in. If this sounds good and we can get a few interested in sharing some responsibility to avoid burn-out, I'd be willing to start up something to get things going. And then those who are willing to do some SG work to get to be players could decide how many more players we could handle joining.

Thoughts?
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:56, Mon 22 Oct 2018.

Lol yeah don't count me out just yet. I apologize for the delay. For some reason giving out experience served as a real roadblock for me. If anything I would appreciate a beta storyguide who can advise/assist especially with he logistics and bean counting.

Looks like maybe I'll have to wait on some interest in my suggestion. If you like the idea and would consider being one of about four SG's, pm me. I'll be around.

I actually like the idea of having troupe style and multiple SGs. It would be a nice way for me to dip my toes into GM-type stuff too.

Well, that's a couple who have mentioned at least some interest. With one more I would think this might be something we could launch. Any other takers on taking part in being one of multiple SG's in a more troupe-style game?

Ok, If Callen and yourself {Lamech} are willing to give this a go, I'll contribute and support by taking on a joint-ST role.

Why don't you set up a game.  It needn't have any real name just yet, nor concept.
Then invite Callen and I, and open RTJ to others who are willing to co-GM.
Then we can discuss what shared game we are willing to initiate.

I'll contribute the thread organization, and player charts, screens, etc, and of course my server for any files that need hosting. I know I fail pretty miserably at running games, but I got the organisation down pretty good.

Thruxus is damned good at organising and site logistics.   His info threads rock.

Looks like this will be a go. I'll set it up and invite those who have mentioned joint SG/player interest, and we can discuss further there. I'll probably get it up tomorrow morning about 5:15 EST. Got home late today and still need to deal with dinner and other stuff.

If anyone else is interested in a joint SG/player role, let us know.

In reply to callen (msg # 140):

I'm always up for another game.  I might even be able to run some of the subplots or a small area.

Firstly, I would be down for a new game... not sure about being a Storyguide.
*realizes the last post about it was almost a month ago* Darn.

In reply to Cossyc (msg # 142):

Shhh...the storyguides are....plotting...

I'd love to learn the system since I've never played, though I'm not familiar with the setting

I'm always open for another game.

Hey there! Just showed up. Played AM first edition once, and ... I think the most recent edition I got through character creation here on RPOL before it died?
But I'm raring to try it again! I'm a big fan of the game, although the lore's a little misty for me (it's been a while). Anything getting planned currently?

In reply to Crazy Ivan (msg # 146):

Not currently, it seems.

ANybody has tried organising something over Discord? Not necessarily through voice, rather the traditional Play-by-post method.

Also, happy new year! Hope everyone put enough Vis into their respective Aegises.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:09, Sun 13 Jan 2019.

I've been slowly moving my games over to Discord, I really like it. It can be used really good for Play By Post, with setting up different channels for information, and having a voice channel is really nice just to casually have in case everyone is around at the same time. Plus the notifications and Mobile are far superior to RPOL. Its like a text message on my phone when a new post comes in, and I can respond to it when I'm free. Not be bombarded with all my games here on RPOL having new threads and devoting time to answer everything. So yeah, I really like it. I am running a Vampire Dark Ages game using Discord/roll20, its been going great.

Someone is thinking about starting a new game. Just noticed it under the Games List. Good Luck whomever it is!

In reply to Cossyc (msg # 147):

One of the issues I see with playing Ars Magica on Discord is that there aren't any dice-bots I'm aware of that can do stress die.

I'm actually running a game just fine. I also found out how to roll Stress Dice just this morning.

We just finished up the small adventure where the Grogs were sent off to retrieve some Aquam vis from a nearby source. The Archetypes they used were Grizzled Veteran, Hunter, Berserker, Specialist, and Tough. So they were all pretty combat heavy. I had the encounter happen at a Waterfall, they knew that the source of the vis was behind the waterfall in a cavern. I had them do some stress rolls to cross the slippery rocks to get to the cavern, a few of them learned how the botch system works. One of them fell in alerting the two wolves that had made the cavern home to the presence of outsiders, Now I did something special with these wolves. Since hey had been living in a cavern that had a strong magical source, the Aquam vis slowly tainted them giving them Water traits. I took the regular wolf from the corebook and added the swim skill, some grapple defenses based on their fur being wet and slippery, and that they could breath underwater.. The PCs dispatched of the wolves without any issue, in hindsight i might have given them some kinda of acid bite but eh, it gets better later. So i thought these two wolves would be a nice threat, but nope, the PCs just kinda blew through them with some nice rolls, and a defense botch on my end.

So inside the cavern, I had a prize! So I knew that one of the PCs would ignore her surroundings and rush to get this prize (which was a wolf pup), Ignoring the puddle of water that stood between her and it, I even made sure to write out that the puddle was there.... Once she stepped in it, a Water Elemental attacked her, using its might to activate its chill touch ability and scoring a heavy wound on her leg. The specialist took his axe and swung at the elemental and his blade just cut right through it causing no damage. Now they had a worthy foe. The combat was pretty good using Discord, we had to wait on one of the players a few times, but afterwards we setup a 24h rule. So the wounded hunter tried to snatch the wolf pup again to disengage from the fight, she was struck again across the face with a bone crunching incapacitating wound. So in the Man At Arms book they have some extra combat rules, optional rules, how to mitigate Incapacitating wounds. So instead of going down, she opted to take another heavy wound with a new minor flaw. Disfigured. Which I'm sure the Magi can fix later but for now one side of her face has been caved in. They eventually figured out that Blunt damage effected the elemental and one of the PCs, the Specialist used his Shield to bash the thing to death. So they are licking their wounds now, about to head back to the Covenant.

I'm letting them play with a few different types first. Grogs, and then Companions, before they jump in and play the Magi. Each of the other characters will be able to be replayed later in the game when they want too. And its given them a nice investment into the characters. I know this was a wall of text, but I was excited to write it, I would 100% suggest using Discord for a Play by Post game. If you want to look how I have mine setup I will send you a invite. Let me know.

Yeah I'd love to see how you have things setup.

So there is in-universe precedent for magic immune fire eating monsters that live on the moon.

Two words.

Lunar Saga.

This is the series of questions I intend to work through with prospective players to help define the covenant
Covenant Age
Spring Covenant with only beginning magi and resources
Winter covenant with most of the old magi dead and new magi trying to reinvigorate the covenant.

Relationship with the Bjornear
The Domnus Magnus of House Bjornear is on a large Baltic island and is the dominant covenant in the area, although you will be in the Novograd tribunal

Relationship with the Church
The old pagan religion and tribes of the area are facing pressure from both the christian russians and a crusade lead by several minor knightly orders which are slowly being subsumed by the Teutonic knights

Relationship with House Tremere
While not specifically strong in this area House Tremere is known to have some sort of relationship with the Teutonic knights as they have large holdings around the Tremere Domnus Magnus although these holdings are growing less important.

Long delayed but I recommend this idea... I ended up building the Ars Harnica (Harn+Ars Magica) Order from two-three hundred years in the past and focused on the major covenants. The Order was much smaller so it was easier.

With that and Metacreator, I went hogwild for an entire winter and learned more about Ars Magica's mechanics than I ever would have just playing/GMing it. I built some crazy stuff... and had a ton of fun.

[It was a long winter so it's not like I had anything else to do... ;-)]

I am glad for you, Kilgs.
Lord, I wish I had that sort of time on my hands; but between working and family, I have nothing to complain about.

That game went nowhere.   The few who joined in didn’t contribute much.
The game is now dead and delete.

Metacreator speeds things right along!

Hey Galley,

I looked over those rules from your game and the original ones; they're pretty slick. Years back, I put together a troupe-style system that was similar but less detailed to use in a similar fashion here on Rpol. After reading those other rules, I went back and started monkeying around with merging the two since I like your base mechanics better but keeping a few things from mine.

Give me a week and I'll show you what I've got. I think there is some interesting potential here.

What do people think of this for a saga?

The group is Quaesitores, Hoplites, and support (ie one or two lab-focused magi that want to help but take a back seat when it comes to direct confrontations.)  All early summer magi, 20-25 past gauntlet.   The first story is to recover the Flying Castle of Thomae, refurbish it, and add modifications so that it is invisible or in some other way not noticeable by mundanes, and it becomes a mobile base for the group. Then, the saga is a series of vignettes, people taking turns running mysteries, marches, etc.  Possibly, but not necessarily, with a larger cataclysmic plot or plots happening in the background.

Definitely sounds interesting. Were you imagining a rotating Storyteller for the vignettes?

Exactly. Probably a main SG to get things started, set the pace, and do backdrop stories, then everyone else takes turns with the vignettes.

I could get behind that. I have enough experience at this point to carry my own in a game; just don't have the time to be the sole ST of my own. Ideally splitting the load should help with GM burnout.

Thank you, and I’d be muchly interested to see your stuff.   It’ll likely excite my creative juices further, and we may end up collaborating further, eh!

I’d support that, also.   I’m certainly no rules expert, but I have narrative flair.

The idea of a quaesitor/hoplite game is a sound one, and allows a good range of stories. Even 20 years past gauntlet is enough for investigative magi to have the spells to make working out "whodunit?" easy enough, proving why and how it can be proven to others and what the best of way of handling the complications is the real challenge.
 I like the supporting magi - "This is Quirinius of Verditius, but you can call him 'Q'. He'll show you your equipment, agent."

I love in the US and we have a lot of places that start with 'New' and we have no idea where the OG version of that place is. I looked up where regular Jersey is and thought it would make a decent covenant location. Given it's modern political weirdness. Maybe a story line about it being in either Normandy or Stonehenge.

I also keep seeing the Adult game Crooked Mile and think that a stretch of road that can pop you into a regio would make a decent setting for an adventure or a covenant.

Feels very fae-flavored.  Could be a Merinita stronghold, or maybe a lost covenant that fell after making the wrong pact.  I like it.

No ideas about Jersey, but now I'm wondering if there's a way to use sympathetic magic between locations that share the same name (like the dozen or so Springfields in the US).

Lunar covenant.

-You can't use magic beyond the Lunar Sphere but you can use it just inside of it.
-You can't teleport to the moon because the visual species you would be using originate from beyond the Lunar Sphere.

*Problem: How (other than the threat that they can't get back) do you get players to not pop all over the world to places you aren't prepared for. They can see the whole earth from the moon and terrestrial species work just fine for sight range teleportation.

Looking for mechanical reasons, contrivances, or Story Guide techniques.

Off the top of my head
Sight is limited to what you can see. Look at photo's taken from the Apollo missions of Earth any teleport is going to be lucky to hit the right country.
And yes the Moon is that far away the distance was measured to a very close approximation in antiquity.
Next how much of the rest of the world as we know it is real and habitable, the Medieval and Classical scholars had some very strange ideas of the rest of the world. So if they go near China they encounter the legendary monstrous mongols , if they go near the Equator there is a band of death from the sun being too hot along the equator (there is a 2nd or 3rd edition supplement called south of the sun which gives a vision of the south of africa.

The America's may well not exist at all.

Really though get the players buy in to only go where you want them to or somewhere they give advance warning of

Sight is magicable.

Seems cheesy to basically say that the rest of the world is empty or too dangerous to venture to.

If you find the viewpoint of medieval scholars cheesy.....

Sight is not magicable, the limit seems pretty much to be sight of the eagles and that is worthless from the moon. Telescopes capable of resolving anything at that distance are centuries and changes in the world view away.

Not all the world will be empty but from the viewpoint of Medieval Europe Asia and India are exotic and far away places full of monsters.  You could go with the historical version but that is a huge amount of research and inventing whole new systems of magic and of course deciding how their different world views collide with the Ars Magica medieval europe construct a task worthy of a mjor publication of multiple books.

As America and Australia are unknown I would jsut ignore them, and are knowledge of them is limited. If you are sensitive to the possinility of offending people you are going to have to tread on eggshells as what I have seen of central american cultures inclines me to believing them to be infernally dominated in the ars magica context. The settled culture of North America largely died of plague before anything was recorded about them so that's another minefield. Again to do something accurate would be a great work of scholarship.

Me I would go with you can only get to places which I am ready for you to got to. I would hate to develop China and have them go to India. As being on the moon is already beyond hermetic limits I would jsut impose flaws on whatever their breakthrough is and control it that way. Access only by the Faerie or Magical realm works, no teleportation there.

Also IIRC teleportation is largely not teleportation as modern thinking goes but rapid motion between two points which smacks you into the Lunar sphere so if you don't want it justifying its failure is easy.

Decide what you want players to be able to do then decide how to impose those limits

He says with way too much conviction for a highly debated topic.



Eyes of the Eagle is a metaphor. It's not MuCo(An). It takes species from over there and brings them to you. Weakening it slightly from canon wouldn't be so bad but it you have a teleport at that level then being close is usually good enough.


It's mostly that whatever is there. Be it normal geography or 3 other versions of eurasia and africa. Players would immediately look down and see them and wonder what is there.


I see no reason anyone would need a break through to get to and stay on the moon. It defines the lunar sphere it's not beyond it.

Changing that interpretation would be a possibility. But it makes things a lot harder logistically.


Teleportation works sort of however your table agrees it does.

By A&A it is like going in and changing the XYZ position coordinate of the target to something else. How that resolves is mostly flavor.

Canonically effecting the material of the moon with magic requires a major hermetic breakthrough. This breakthrough is detailed in Dies Irea and using it can break the world if you are crazy in its application.

Also mentioned in Dies Irae is the Daimon which personifies the moon, and there are a whole bunch of other legendary beings which are tied to the moon you could do a lot with them to describe the nature of the moon and use them to impose limits on magic to access it. Artemis and Hecate spring to mind but there are almost certainly similar beings in other religions

There was also something cut from the 4th Ed sourcebook on the Greater Alps tribunal on the covenant dedicated to trying to break the Lunar limit, its out of date now but it was published on one of the authors websites. I am sorry I can't remember which one.



And everything is up to the SG with whatever level of discussion works for the group. I Was trying to present obstables to the problems you posed with the idea of a saga with a covenant on the moon sorry if they are not useful. I personally would never run a game with this concept as it does not fit with my mental image of Ars Magica but I can see how it could be fun.

100% correct, that is part of the fun. But that has nothing to do with getting there and hanging a castle from it. To get there you just need air, a spell to lift you, and really good fire immunity.

You certainly can't go anywhere during the day since you would have to get through that blanket of blue fire.

  The second edition supplement Ice & Fire details Iceland and parts of Greenland and perhaps the northeastern coast of North America.  The vikings ranged into those areas in the recent past of the Ars Magica setting so it isn't too far fetched for sagas ranging towards the ends of the earth...  I've seen ideas kicked around for such games on here but the level of world building for it would be staggering, really quite esoteric as far as solid research goes and likely run afoul of misconceptions/misrepresentations about Native cultures.  (As in the Incan reference above...)

I think his real point there wasn't that they wouldn't exist. But that you should probably play game with your real life friends that won't judge you for making the region an entertaining and compelling but ultimately inaccurate caricature of the real region.

In a game on this site where I do not know the players I will have to be much more culturally sensitive than I would be with my local group , there I have known the players for twenty years and so can guarantee to stay in their comfort zone.

Even with the best documented ancient and medieval cultures there is a lot we don't know and a lot where interpretation is required. Pre-Columbian Meso-american culture is one of those poorly documented area's worse even than Post-Roman Britain or Pre-Roman Britain