That's the type of game that is what I'm looking for. Research and exploration, but travelling and visiting diverse places.

An ancient malfunctioning hermes portal, that opens up temporary two-way connections to standing stones or ruins throughout Europe, perhaps seemingly randomly or according to some hard to decipher astronomical influences.  However, it becomes increasingly likely that the places it opens up always have something that you need, or need something from you.

Could something, God or a pagan deity or something with the Magical Realm (perhaps a Magus in Twilight?) be influencing the portal, and through it, the covenant and its magi?

Perhaps sometimes it open to an unknown regio. In an early adventure, we could recruit a warrior who serves as a local knowledge source.

To protect our covenant, we'd need to develop some sort of door that can be closed to prevent things from coming through to us when we don't want them.

Ah, StarGate SG1, I really enjoyed that show. Far more than I should have.

For modern, alternate settings, I'd wondered about a few things:

1. What Abilities would need to be added while keeping things simple?
   
2. How would things like computers fit into Hermetic magic?
   
3. If magi have nearly disappeared, maybe they're mostly hiding out in regios. Maybe everyone has the Gentle Gift because others don't make it.
   
4. You could probably set some Harry Potter-like stuff by requiring certain Flaws, such as Necessary Condition (Wand) or similar.

As for something I'd like to play, I like a mix of adventure, diplomacy, character development, and conflict (not necessarily straight combat). But, most importantly, something people could commit to so it wouldn't die. I like to build my character into the setting to provide flavor and motivation, so things like one-shots don't do it for me.

In reply to callen (msg # 31):

Originally, I believe Mage:the Awakening was supposed to be the modern setting for Ars back when White Wolf owned both properties.  Tremere intellectual property is still a bit of a sticking point for licencing, if I remember correctly.

New Abilities would definitely be required, allowing for technology mainly.  Texts would definitely benefit from print and especially the internet.  Magic would have to change as well to integrate the new world.  I could see The Order collapsing into a tiny organized underground and losing A LOT of knowledge base, possibly including Parma Magica but the Gift evolving to be less harsh on mundanes due to 'evolutionary' pressure.
Imagine a wizard returning from Twilight into such an age...  Come to think of it, I think they covered that in Mage already.

I have been interested in Ars Magica for many years, but until I just got 4th edition, all I ever had was first edition, with few chances to play, so my "interests" are not based on much experience in the game. For what they are worth, I list them below, with the ones I am most interested in listed on top.
 Regarding "historically realistic setting," I have studied medieval history professionally and like the idea of fitting a campaign into a specific historic place and time, though I am not especially interested in technical issues such as how much chain armor might weigh.

1. historically realistic setting
2. Exploring mystical etc. places
3. Combat
4. Character development (in terms of creating a fictional background for the character, not the technical mechanics of character creation)
5. Roleplaying, relationships, diplomacy
6. Management of coven and coven folk

In reply to jleland (msg # 33):

There aren't many folks well versed in history enough to play in a good historically accurate setting.  My first Storyteller was a graduate student studying the middle ages and was quite the stickler for accuracy...and a good Storyteller.  But I never really required that level of attention to detail to enjoy his games or anyone else's.
We all have things we enjoy and slide that into our games when we can.  Most of the Ars stories I've ran have had a strong horror element to them.  'Historicity' may be the same with you.  I do admire the folks who can pull of the historical accuracy.  That takes some good research skills.

@jleland - Cool! It'd be interesting to play with you as a GM and see all that detail inform the adventure. :) I read somewhere that Tolkien's masterful worldbuilding came from a similar background in medieval history and culture. I agree with witchdoctor that not everyone can pull it off.

As for the modern era... Hermetic magic was explicitly based on medieval and classical natural philosophy, if I understand it correctly. In other words, Bonisagus's overarching theory of magic was informed by that worldview. That leads to a big question for modern Ars Magica games: have modern perspectives on reality been incorporated into the old magic system?

What would happen if a magus took Newton's Third Law into account--would the magus become aware of new costs of magic? Could a magus cast Creo magic without believing in the ideal, metaphysical world of Forms? Would relativity lead to a breakthrough in understanding the passage of time in regiones, or the development of spells to speed or slow time? Would Terram, Aquam, Ignem, and Aurum be rethought as the four phases of matter, or replaced by categories of elements/compounds? Would there be new categories of magic for interacting with fungi, microorganisms, viruses, or computers? Gravity/orbit spells? Spells to control light and sound?

Would Hermetic magic develop new branches of Newtonian or Einsteinian magic? (I'm sure Einstein was a magus. :) ) Would there be controversy or unity among the magi over such changes in thought? Would nuclear magic be forbidden? Could a new type of magic overcome the deceptions of devils, or bypass other limitations of Hermetic magic?

Edit: would the first law of thermodynamics make both Creo and Perdo magic impossible?
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:22, Wed 17 May 2017.

There was a short discussion about an Ars Saga set in the newly "discovered" New World, circa 1500-ish, some time ago in one of the other rPol forums.  The discussion was quite creative with just about every person having their own great and well thought out ideas of how things could be.

This discussion reminded me of that one.

I think the biggest problem with moving Ars Magica forward in time is that the setting will stop looking like anything resembling the real world very quickly. The primary factor that forces the Masquerade in Ars Magica is that the catholic church says that all witchcraft is illegal and wants to kill you for being a witch. But once you get a hundred or two hundred years into the future and the Renaissance begins, the catholics start losing their power, the science advances and the world will quickly embrace magic. There's no real reason for AM wizards to stay in shadows when they can join the university or a court and secure a research grant without being burned alive.

Also, it may be just me, but I've always thought that the "aristotelan physics" boner of the 5e is a result of 5e writers having their heads too far up their asses. Not only does such world makes no sense (aristotelan physics don't work in a real world and are hard to imagine) but also it puts a massive entry requirement on anyone new joining the game.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:59, Wed 17 May 2017.

One problem I see with advancing Ars Magica too far forward is that things work like they do because everyone believes that they do. Since disease is caused by a misbalance in the four humors anything like scientific investigation will reinforce that belief.

In the real world, science advances by observing how the world works and showing how that breaks from the existing belief of how things work. Then you alter the idea of how it works and observe some more. But in Ars Magica, how they believe things work is how they work. Science would reinforce the existing belief.

The Laws of Thermodynamics simply don't work in the world of Ars Magica. The Law of Gravity is also not a thing. In the world of Ars Magica heavy things will fall faster than light things.

This is one of the things that appeals to me about Ars Magica. I like the odd way the world works. I'm the one who brought up the idea of a 17th Century game set in the New World. But I had no intention of changing how magic and the world works.

I hadn't thought of the reality of medieval beliefs as extending to the laws of the physical world. I assumed that folklore was true, but not natural philosophy.

Art & Academe is one of my favorite sourcebooks for 5e. Someday I want to play a character who gets seriously involved in Experimental Philosophy. Ideally, he would be a Learned Magician from Hedge Magic Revised.

In reply to statesman88 (msg # 39):

I seem to recall a thread on the Atlas Forum which discussed why there wasn't much development interest in a sourcebook on Marco Polo type exploration. One reason I believe was given was that it would take the cannon out of the Mediaeval Paradigm that so much of it was based on.

I also recall a discussion along these lines about how the various Houses might adapt to changes over time. For example, someone suggested House Criamon might take to the Internet. A sort of Nueromancer type search for the Enigma more or less. Jerbiton would be headquartered in Los Angeles. That sort of thing.

One conclusion I think was made would be that Covenants would no longer be necessary either. Magi would no longer need to co-habitat to share information.

To the point already made in other folks posts, I think Ars Magica would not be the same game outside the Mythic European setting. But it would be interesting to run a game where Players must deal with non-Hermetic magics and belief systems, such as in a Marco Polo type game or New World exploration game.

Along another set of lines, I've always been curious about playing in a game where a covenant's purpose is to reach the moon.

Hi there, everybody.

I tried to get an Ars Magica game going about a year ago, but I was too ambitious and unwilling to demand the players generate some material for me, so it ended up going nowhere.

I'd like to try again, and some of the ideas here make sense to me. Namely, each player would have a magus or a companion (the companion would get the Blood of Heroes Virtue for free in that case).

I wouldn't have a particular story in mind going in, and we'd be in the eastern Rhine or western Novgorod Tribunals. I'm not all that familiar with the Tribunal details, so a lot of stuff wouldn't match with the setting books. In particular, I'm not a fan of a ton of super-powerful NPCs.

I would want to generate stories and adventures through the players and the covenant, using Story Flaws and Hooks, with a few historical events thrown in. I'm big on setting realism, in the sense of portraying the Middle Ages at least partially like it really was. In some ways, this would be "better" than the stereotypes, and in some ways "worse;" e.g., the Church is generally a force for good and figures prominently in everyday life, in Germany and Russia; women had all of the same legal rights as men; including owning their own property, peasants actually weren't that dirty, there were bandits every two miles, the Church didn't persecute magicians but secular authorities often did, etc.

The biggest change I like to make is "wilderness-ifying" the setting, that is, not everything has been explored, the Hermetic Order isn't monolithic, there are lots of hedge magicians with idiosyncratic traditions, and much of Europe is trackless woodlands with all manner of mundane and mythical danger, treasure, glory, and knowledge hidden in the dark and shadows.

I would like to spend more time than it seems to me is usual on the more "mundane" aspects of Hermetic life: producing and acquiring books, experimentation, finding familiars, wheeling and dealing vis and enchanted items, and the down-and-dirty nastiness of Hermetic politics.

The main thing, though, is that I would want my players to generate story material for me, i.e., to feed me ideas to run with on the regular for NPCs, plots, adventures, political machinations, etc.

Does this appeal to anyone?

This seems like a mistake to me. The point of the Troupe system is to solve the linear warrior quadratic wizard problem. And the solution is brilliant - the role of a wizard is rotated between players. That waves away all the balance problems, both between wizards and warriors and also between different wizards. It also creates hooks for internal politics - AM wizards draw power from not going on adventures and sitting in their lab instead. Going out to kill a dragon is a chore that drags you away from bubbling cauldrons and books and home cooking. As such there are meaningful arguments to be had about who should go and solve the problem of the week.

Yes, it does.

In reply to longesway (msg # 43):

The issue many of us have encountered is that with multiple primary characters (magi & companions) in addition to grogs, there ends up being a lot of start-up work and a lot to keep track of in such a way that things get bogged down and games fail. You can still trade off, just play a magus or a grog. That can put a little more emphasis on grogs, too. Good grogs can be just as much fun.

I prefer to let Adventure count as a stacking Source, though taking too long to Adventure would come with time penalty as normal. And of course somebody might steal or sabotage your stuff if you're away too long.

You might consider a request such as "please take one story Flaw" instead of the normal allowing one. You might also ask for characters to have a personality or other Virtue/Flaw that pushes them towards stories as well, such as Driven or Seeker or Gild Training.

I'd second that.

I'd be interested.

I want to emphasize that I'd be asking for quite a bit more than a "normal" DM. Not quite troupe play levels of commitment, but essentially what I'm looking for is players to come up with story seeds. I'd ask that you share your Story Flaws, personality traits, and similar abilities with each other and then send story ideas my way playing off of characters' (yours or someone else's) traits, as well as covenant hooks or "random" ideas.

Essentially looking and planning for adventure instead of waiting for it. :)

A good group of well constructed characters with good players could easily fill as many adventures as a StoryTeller can stomach.