I had it advised that there be a thread for people to introduce themselves and offer their broad thoughts on the edition.

I'm engine, I've been playing 4th Edition since it came out. I had a... falling out... with the hobby as a whole, a few years ago and gave away all my RPG books. I still had the bug, though, and when I found this site and got some of the books back, I started trying to play again.

I have played D&D since the late 90s, starting with the Basic Red Box and moving into Second Edition AD&D, along with some other games. I didn't have the enjoyable experience with past editions that I gather many others did, and so I don't hold much nostalgia for them. I have a gap from when I was in college (we played mostly board and computer games then), and then I picked up 3.5, which seemed as though it had rectified a lot of the stuff that had annoyed me about past editions, and, hey, almost all of what you needed was free online.

But the shine came off the game for me. I guess it took about 8 years for that to happen, and was driven a lot by spending too much time on message boards and not enough actually playing and enjoying the game, but I came to realize that 3.5 had kept a lot of the old problems from past editions.

4th Edition seemed and seems brilliant to me, for reasons I'm sure I'll belabor in this forum, and I am still pretty bummed that not enough other people felt that way. Then again, other editions became victims of their own success in some ways, becoming bloated, ridiculous and easily broken. So, maybe we were spared that.

Anyway, that's me. Who are you?

Hey folks.

I'm GreyGriffin.  I'm a lifelong gamer, having started witn 2nd edition D&D and followed through every edition, and branching out in every direction from there.  My systems of choice are 5e, Feng Shui 2, Torchbearer, and Burning Wheel.

I think 4e is largely underrated, and I think its impact on the RPG scene and 5e especially is understated.  4e had a vision and it stuck to it.  It's probably the best tactical combat RPG ever made.  Its handling of action economy, advancement and customization, and its philosophy of adventure and encounter design really took some important forward steps over d20, and really laid the groundwork for D&D to reinvent itself and develop its own identity.

It's not a perfect system, no.  But it's fun to play, interesting to analyze, and getts a bad rap for having made hard design choices in order to be what it is.

You can see the name, so I won't repeat it.

Bounced around a lot of games, presently experimenting with L5R 4E, Palladium Fantasy, Mutants and Masterminds, and Anima, in an attempt to broaden my gaming horizons. Am very familiar with 3.X and 4E D&D, have a passing relationship with 2E, and at least own the 5E Player Handbook, even if I'm trying to see what is to like in it compared to prior editions.

Also, if brevity is wit, then so far I am the most witless contributor on this site.

4E is a story of hindsight, but to me, it is a surprising throwback to its Chainmail roots. At its heart, 4E D&D is a tactical wargame. It's...flawed, yes. Once it leaves the battlefield, it runs into a few issues. But it is functional, and rather fun once one figures out its wonks.

Hello, I'm L.P.

ROOM: Hello, L.P.

My gaming history? I got started in '84 with the Moldvay Basic D&D boxed set. In junior high I made friends with a group of dedicated gamers -- my best friend's dad got started with the original Chainmail (and, I believe, actually played a few sessions with Gygax and Arneson), playtested the original Paranoia game, and wrote the very first character-creation software.

I've played more RPG systems than I can remember. Just off the top of my head: every edition of D&D (including Basic/Expert/Etc.), Pathfinder, Rolemaster, Spacemaster, MERP, Top Secret/SI, Paranoia, GURPS, Deadlands, MechWarrior/BattleTech, various Palladium games, Immortal: Invisible War*, Champions/HERO System, Shadowrun (EVERY edition), d20 Modern, Star Wars (WEG, d20, Saga, and FFG's new one). If I dig through my memory, I can probably recall a dozen more.

I've helped people write RPG systems, and recently had a few low-impact jobs editing RPG sourcebooks. Can't really devote enough time to that, unfortunately, thanks to my kids.

I'm also the guy who created HeroForge, a character-creation spreadsheet for 3E. It got expanded into Star Wars, Call of Cthulhu, Pathfinder, and a couple other offshoots. When 4E came out, I told the brand manager that I intended on making a HeroForge for it too -- and their next move was to put everything else on the back burner and devote all their coding energy toward the Character Builder.

Remember that? The first one? You could use it offline, it was pretty thorough, held to the rules but gave you the option to devitate, made a useable character sheet, and was pretty easy to use. Unlike their second version, which was none of that. Anyway, they never admitted it, but I like to think that the first one came out as good as it did because they didn't want me upstaging them again.

Pity my own attempt was hamstrung at every step. But that's neither here nor there.

So, in a nutshell, I'm one of those graybeard RPG players that has seen literally everything out there, and played systems that most people have never heard of. I've been running games for over thirty years, so I'm full of anecdotes and advice (as long as you keep a saltshaker on hand).

---

* Ho boy is this one the oddball of the group. PM me if you want to know just how weird an RPG can be.

Hi there,

jkeogh here. I play in a very unique game LonePaladin gm's here and have participated in a couple hosted by our discussion forum moderator, engine!

I started playing RPGs in junior high back in the 90s with AD&D and the West End Games Star Wars RPG.

I took a long hiatus for most of high school, all of college and early "adult" life.

When all of the news broke about the Star Wars sequels, I started listening to a few RPG podcasts including "Critical Hit" and really loved the way 4E was portrayed there.

I have participated in a number of games here on RPol, the 4E games never seem to last, but they are really fun. I'm also fond of 3.5 and Pathfinder but I think that's because I've found a few well GM'd games.

I'm not as deeply steeped in the rules but love the Sorcerer motif and think 4E has the best version of that class.

Not much else to add here now, but I'm excited to learn more from being a part of this forum!

Hi there, I’m jack. I’ve played D&D first edition in the 80s with my cousins, then after a gap Rolemaster in the 1990s, then after a very long gap 3rd and 4th editions D&D online here on rpol. Most of my early playing was a GM only (a terrible one most of the time looking back, though my players loved it for some reason), and its only through rpol that I’ve had the opportunity to be a player too. I’ve only played in fantasy worlds, but I do like the idea of sci-fi gaming too.

I also run an archaeological company in Dublin, and one of my biggest issues in the past couple of years has been finding the time to game, which remains my favourite pastime.

I’m a big fan of 4th Edition in particular, and am in no hurry to move to the latest iteration of the rules, though I have no doubt I’d have just as fun with them. In my experience, a roleplaying game is more affected by the players’ attitudes than the ruleset. I have found that many players who remained with 4E have similar attitudes to gaming – an attitude which has almost nothing to do with the intent of the 4E rules, but rather with the ways the rules can be manipulated to encourage heroic and gonzo cinematic fantasy – which I love obviously.

Hiya!  I'm Godzfirefly.  I've played D&D since AD&D, where I tried learning the game from books without instruction during junior high.  Like jacktannery, I mostly played as DM then, and I was mostly terrible at it.

But, as I grew up, I found other players who would DM for me and who taught me how to be a good player/DM.  By that time, we were playing 3.5 edition D&D, and I branched out heavily into other d20 systems (Mutants and Masterminds, Star Wars, and d20 Modern.)  I also dabbled in the Old World of Darkness and a few other systems.  I really enjoyed those systems, especially world-building and character-building.  I managed to DM several long, successful, and completed campaigns for my primary play-group while also playing in several shorter games that my newer friends ran.

When 4e was released, my playgroups were all pretty resistant to it.  We didn't see the need for a new D&D system when we enjoyed 3.5 so much.  After all, we'd all invested hundreds of dollars into 3.5 and the idea of investing that much time and money into learning a new system wasn't very appealing.  But, I did purchase the core rulebooks (since I'm a collector/completionist at heart.)  Reading them, at first, was like reading the original AD&D books from when I was a kid.  Without real play, I didn't really pick up on the nuances of the system, so the differences in the new system didn't make a lot of sense to me.  I tried running a short game with my primary playgroup, but no one really enjoyed it much at the time.

Then, several years later, I was introduced to the Critical Hit podcast (a 4e real-play podcast.)  Listening to that cast of players and their excellent DM showed me what the differences in 3.5 and 4e were supposed to act like and I suddenly saw 4e in a new light.  The experience shined a light on the parts of 3.5 that I didn't really like much (but never realized how much I disliked until I saw an alternative that 'fixed' those issues.)  So, I tried running a 4e campaign with my primary playgroup one more time, this time investing in the D&D Insider to help minimize long-term costs for the group and make character/campaign creation easier.  And, that campaign made all the difference.  I could tell that my players enjoyed the gameplay more, and I felt like world-building and campaign design was much easier in 4th edition.  It wasn't long before 4th edition became my playgroup's preferred gaming system.

Since 5th edition came out, I have played and DMed a few games in the newer system.  I have found things I like about it and things I don't like.  I do feel like it is better than 3.5 and the older d20 systems.  I've also dabbled in other tabletop RPG systems, including Pathfinder, Palladium, Star Wars Saga, and FATE.  But, I still find that I prefer to play 4e to all other systems.  And, more importantly for me since I still GM more than I play, I find campaign design is far easier and more enjoyable in 4e.

I played AD&D back in the 90s because sometimes your VtM troupe decided they wanted to roll something other than d10s and watch the Storyteller's head spin as plot fell to rules lawyers and mathletic posturing.  3e was the first edition I enjoyed.  I stuck pretty religiously to d20 modern for a time but thought that it still short changed 4 out of the 5 classes, when it came to combat effectiveness.

My first reaction to 4e was: they made it a card game? #thanksHasbro  Then I played and suddenly realized the days of 4 to 13hrs for a 90 second fight scene were over.  I came to love gaming as a WoD storyteller so I was amazed to see someone had made room for plots in D&D.

My biggest struggle currently (other than finding players locally who are not filled with edition hate) is living without the DDi Tools.  I have found some eTools thanks to my girlfriend (who has more patience for research than I do these days) but they are mostly ineffective in comparison to the complete DDi tools, which Hasbro probably deleted to create some demand for the eBooks.

Welcome!


Frankly, at this point I'd play the heck out of a 4th Edition-based D&D card game. I mean, Pathfinder has a card game version, and I didn't hear much complaining about that. And if there's one thing WotC knows how to make, it's card games.


That's fascinating to hear. I usually hear it the other way: 4th Edition combat takes forever, and it's all about combat, with no "roleplaying." Granted, I think 3 and 3.5 heard those exact same whines when it came out.

What did you find made 4th Edition combat faster and what did you think made more room for plots?

At first the cards felt like an abasement of the RPG character.  Hasbro bought WotC to get MtG and WotC's RPG lines just happen to be part of the deal so why not try to spin the most populace fan base into something it could market more broadly, possibly with a box and booster packs.  But once I realized they were just reference cards and D&D wasn't going to try to get in on the microtransaction craze, I loved them.

Easing Combat...

With everything easily referenced on the power cards PC's didn't forget their magic item had a heal and no rules lawyers had to look up rules and errata to determined which bonuses stacked.  Every applicable weapon in your inventory was listed on every power card that it could be applied to.  The smart character and the face were not dead weight in combats level appropriate to the fighter and the ranger (challenged players are engaged, engaged players stay focused on the fight; less diversions because the married couple playing the wizard and the bard ran out of combat spells and went to go make out in the den while their characters hid under an invisibility spell) also more people fighting kill things faster.  At first I hated the cards as an abasement but then I learned a push button combat system is one where combat can resolve in a few quick hours and more of the session can be committed to story and RP.

Putting plot and RP back into the game comes from the degree to which they are not addressed in the mechanic.  Skill Challenges are great for getting over a wall and dealing with tedious exchanges like bribing guards and intimidating bandits.  But I use the XP system for challenges to grade situations where the characters interact with plot relevant NPCs for enough time and to good enough effect that I feel they have advanced the story.  Which I feel is more rewarding than just points for rolls.

Hi, everyone. Long-time gamer who runs a few games here. I've been playing 4e since pre-ordering the now heavily-erratad PHB, DMG and MM. Decided to join the conversation. :-)

I still subscribe to D&D Insider and am one of the last few people in the world still using the online character builder, it seems. I keep a version of Firefox at an old version so that Character Builder and the DM tools work.

I am particularly fond of Essentials. As a person who always hated wasting resources, a number of those classes allow you to do cool stuff every round and occasionally boost their powers with encounter boosts. Love that. I also like the re-worked monsters from Essentials, particularly the dragons.

Does anyone know if LonePaladin is still around?

In reply to jkeogh (msg # 12):

I don't, sorry.

Hello folks, old new member here.

I started with Mentzer Red Box, played it, AD&D 1st and 2nd editions before moving to GM RuneQuest, which I run about 5 years. RQ was our group's main game until I married and my gaming became sort of on-off hobby, until I returned in full strength to DM 4e around 2012 running a campaign up to 6th level. Yes, I have skipped 3rd edition completely...

Currently I'm running weekly 5e and Basic Fantasy Role-Playing games on Roll20 and also play here in RPOL. I think 4e is an EXCELLENT game and I'm seriously pondering to start a new game for my group with it on Roll20, and also here, hence I tumbled into this forum again.

Nice to meet you folks!

In reply to Uringizel (msg # 14):

Welcome! Your early experience meshes with mine pretty well, though I never tried RuneQuest.

It's always great to hear about new 4th Edition rumblings. I hope you're able to get a game going.

In reply to jkeogh (msg # 12):

I just saw LonePaladin post on a thread, so they're still on the board.