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01:12, 29th March 2024 (GMT+0)

The Bottomless Mug (OOCs)

Posted by DMFor group 0
Albrecht Delmorn
player, 176 posts
Sat 12 May 2018
at 12:45
  • msg #452

Re: OOC Thread

I don't want to be in a game with players like Larmiun and especially Ailishi, who blow everything out of proportion and have to turn everything into a dick showing contest. Yes, I know I started this whole thing, but a simple "Oh shit, my bad, maybe we shouldn't torture this guy" and BOOM, Albrecht would have happily went on his way and we'd be halfway back to town now.
DM
GM, 414 posts
Sat 12 May 2018
at 12:56
  • msg #453

Re: OOC Thread

I believe that Ailishi and Larmiun are largely to blame for the current situation, it's clear they were threatening other party members. And now even moving upon it.

I would ask that you please stay. You were doing so well with Velox and I think you guys could still have fun once we move past this situation. It's even sadder when the fact is you both moved to rescue them from an ambush, and if not for that they might already have been dead, but they've not even considered that.

I'm not to well pleased with their actions at this time. Neither picked an evil alignment to begin with......course I suppose they might belong to the group that believes someone neutral can do whatever they want.....
Milander Vos Drago
player, 142 posts
Sat 12 May 2018
at 14:31
  • msg #454

Re: OOC Thread

At the end of the day, I think who is going to finish it and how is more important than who started it.

This is a game of pretend.

We can pretend that things went differently.

So, why not pretend that say... Everyone understood right out the gate that Alishi didn't use an excessive amount of torture, and so the argument never happened?

We can agree that torture is Evil, yes?

We can agree that no one should enforce their will on other characters, yes?

And we can agree that my dick is bigger and more veiny than Sera's, but clearly not as impressive as Elmo's.

I mean, wouldn't it be more fun for everyone if we each took this situation a little less seriously?
Albrecht Delmorn
player, 178 posts
Sat 12 May 2018
at 15:28
  • msg #455

Re: OOC Thread

I will not take back Albrecht's initial response to Ailishi's torturous actions. If he wants to go back to before he drew his weapon on me, I would be willing to do that, but not more than that.
Larmiun Dol'Uten
player, 77 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 05:03
  • msg #456

Re: OOC Thread

I thought and I thought and reread everything and I want to state some things.


DM:
Larmiun has an INT of 14 and a WIS of 18, he would know that what you are doing right now is not smart, nor wise.


Larmiun could be right now fishing and doing other things.
Going adventuring is not smart nor wise. At least not Int 14 smart and Wis 18 wise. Still, I RTJed. I love fantasy, where smart and wise people go on adventuring.



Albrecht Delmorn:
How about this, I'll make it easy for the DM and everyone involved. I'll drop this game and you can all happily slaughter my character and continue on being idiotic torture machines who care nothing of the law for as long as you want. Hell, you can even kill Velox, Elmo, and Faerrash if you really want to. Why stop there? Just go back to town and kill everyone there too!


Why Elmo and the rest of the town? They haven't attacked Larmiun nor Ailishi. We are sane people, not mindless drones who want to enforce a law that doesn't reach this place. If it reached this place, adventurers like Larmiun shouldn't be needed.
Besides, Ailishi is trying to defend the people of the town and our own butts. These bandits are a danger to them. Albrecht is defending a danger to the people, to society.




Albrecht Delmorn:
I don't want to be in a game with players like Larmiun and especially Ailishi, who blow everything out of proportion and have to turn everything into a dick showing contest. Yes, I know I started this whole thing, but a simple "Oh shit, my bad, maybe we shouldn't torture this guy" and BOOM, Albrecht would have happily went on his way and we'd be halfway back to town now.


So... you started this confrontation but Ailishi is the one who must step back? WOW.



DM:
I believe that Ailishi and Larmiun are largely to blame for the current situation, it's clear they were threatening other party members. And now even moving upon it.


Larmiun never made a threat to anyone. He just prepared for an event. The beggining of a fight.

Albrecht Delmorn:
"Wow! I was unaware we were in the company of such an accomplished duelist in our dear Ailishi here! Willing to take on three men at the same time. Shall we perhaps tie one of your hands behind your back as well, to even the odds? Maybe even blindfold you?" Albrecht quips, his words dripping with sarcasm as he openly laughs in the man's face


That is the beggining of a fight. Albrecht stated what was going to happen next and the number of people who was going to help fight Alishi. The next step was violence and Larmiun just chose a side.

DM:
I believe that Ailishi and Larmiun are largely to blame for the current situation, it's clear they were threatening other party members. And now even moving upon it.


Larmiun is not evil. Protecting good people is not evil. Protecting a friend is not evil. Torture is evil, but at least Ailishi is not taking arms to protect a rapist and murderer's well being. And even then, a single evil act doesn't make him evil. If he builds a school, that doesn't make him good as much as torturing a bandit doesn't make him evil. Turning to one alignment or the other takes more than just that. He obviously has ranks in intimidation and intimidation is not nice. It is not doplomacy.

DM:
I'm not to well pleased with their actions at this time. Neither picked an evil alignment to begin with......course I suppose they might belong to the group that believes someone neutral can do whatever they want.....


No, that is Chaotil Neutral. And Chaotic Evil. Larmiun sees a friend in danger and he protects him. End of the story. True Neutral is about doing what Larmiun thinks is a good idea. It is in the description of the alignment. If you are not pleased with Larmiun defending a friend, I think it is obvious you will not enjoy the game while I play it and you will not make it enjoyable for me. Neither of us deserve that.
Velox
player, 210 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 10:45
  • msg #457

Re: OOC Thread

In reply to Larmiun Dol'Uten (msg # 456):

You aren’t just “defending a friend”, you attacked someone who just came to your rescue for trying to stop your “friend” from torturing someone. The fact that you still can’t see this and backdown is all that I need to know.
DM
GM, 415 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 11:36
  • msg #458

Re: OOC Thread

If folks wish to agree to roll back the post I'll be happy to delete posts after that. Being that today is Mother's Day it will probably be tonight before I can work on the map.
Faerrash
player, 24 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 12:01
  • msg #459

Re: OOC Thread

Where are we in the initiative?
DM
GM, 416 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 14:48
  • msg #460

Re: OOC Thread

You rolled pretty bad, right now you are last.

Seralessa and Milander still need to roll initiative.
Milander Vos Drago
player, 143 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 15:40
  • msg #461

Re: OOC Thread

In reply to DM (msg # 460):


Second to last. No one goes after me, ever. :P

So, I guess we're doing this. I suppose everyone that wants to form team Never gonna PVP again in this game (which while not succinct, is still sexy), please PM me so that
.. y'know... We can survive this stupidity.

To the Victor's go the... Umm... Rest of the campaign I guess?
Velox
player, 211 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 16:08
  • msg #462

Re: OOC Thread

In reply to Milander Vos Drago (msg # 461):

I feel like there is still time for Ailishi and Larmiun to comment either OOC or IC that they weren’t actually torturing or defending a torturer and that would be enough for me to avoid the conflict. And then we can split up and go our merry ways.
Milander Vos Drago
player, 144 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 16:26
  • msg #463

Re: OOC Thread

In reply to Velox (msg # 462):

I think so too... But if not there's always just adding scalps and the survivors turning them in.

At this point I am good either way as long as we can go back to playing as quickly as possible.
Larmiun Dol'Uten
player, 78 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 18:55
  • msg #464

Re: OOC Thread

Velox:
In reply to Larmiun Dol'Uten (msg # 456):

You aren’t just “defending a friend”, you attacked someone who just came to your rescue for trying to stop your “friend” from torturing someone. The fact that you still can’t see this and backdown is all that I need to know.


I am defending a friend who is going to be attacked by a bunch of dudes that doesn't want to harm bandits. I am here to harm bandits. Torture is evil in D&D and what Ailishi is doing is perfectly right. They are the enemy.




By the way, DM, I want to know the 2 best stats of everyone. You told everyone mine, so it is only fair.
Albrecht Delmorn
player, 179 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 19:16
  • msg #465

Re: OOC Thread

I have three stats tied for best. One of them is strength, and one is constitution. You can guess the third.

Torture is evil in all respects, no matter what. Period. The end. That's that. You will never be able to convince me otherwise. What Ailishi is doing is evil. A Lawful Neutral character would not let someone in his company do evil acts. So if Ailishi won't stop, we either need to part ways, or he needs to die. I'm fine with either outcome at this point.
Faerrash
player, 25 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 19:29
  • msg #466

Re: OOC Thread

I have played in a few PvP games and at times they can be fine.
Velox
player, 212 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 19:33
  • msg #467

Re: OOC Thread

In reply to Larmiun Dol'Uten (msg # 464):

You just proved yourself wrong. Ailishi is torturing someone. According to you that is evil. So Larmiun is defending an evil act that our characters are trying to stop. We don’t hold the bandit’s life as sacred, anymore than we do anyone else’s. We are merely trying to get him to face his death at the hands of those he has harmed most.

You also can’t take a joke, which is clearly what the DM was making when he mentioned your intelligence and wisdom...
Milander Vos Drago
player, 145 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 20:45
  • msg #468

Re: OOC Thread

Philosophically speaking, intent is more important than the act itself.

Practically speaking, the DM is god, so if he says it is Evil, it's evil.

I'm ok with PVP, but... It's a bit early for it at the moment.
Albrecht Delmorn
player, 180 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 21:01
  • msg #469

Re: OOC Thread

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"

Saying that someone's intent is all that matters is the perfect justification to get away with doing anything you want. "I was torturing that guy for information, I swear!" "I didn't burn that village down intentionally, I had to stop the bad guy from escaping!" "Sure, I blew up the orphanage, but I killed the bandit inside, too, didn't I?" "Okay, sure, I poisoned the water supply and killed hundreds of civilians, but I stopped the orcs from getting away. That's all that really matters!"

Its a very slippery slope that leads down a path I personally want no part of.
Milander Vos Drago
player, 146 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 21:17
  • msg #470

Re: OOC Thread

In reply to Albrecht Delmorn (msg # 469):
Precision of language; more is different from all. ;)

Single factor analysis, being a form of binary categorization, is a flawed perspective I rarely employ.
DM
GM, 417 posts
Mon 14 May 2018
at 03:50
  • msg #471

Re: OOC Thread

Larmiun Dol'Uten:
Velox:
In reply to Larmiun Dol'Uten (msg # 456):

You aren’t just “defending a friend”, you attacked someone who just came to your rescue for trying to stop your “friend” from torturing someone. The fact that you still can’t see this and backdown is all that I need to know.


I am defending a friend who is going to be attacked by a bunch of dudes that doesn't want to harm bandits. I am here to harm bandits. Torture is evil in D&D and what Ailishi is doing is perfectly right. They are the enemy.




By the way, DM, I want to know the 2 best stats of everyone. You told everyone mine, so it is only fair.


I was pointing out that your character was to smart and to wise to undertake the course of action you are taking.....
Seralessa Vadmal
player, 108 posts
Mon 14 May 2018
at 06:10
  • msg #472

Re: OOC Thread

Albrecht Delmorn:
How about this, I'll make it easy for the DM and everyone involved. I'll drop this game and you can all happily slaughter my character and continue on being idiotic torture machines who care nothing of the law for as long as you want. Hell, you can even kill Velox, Elmo, and Faerrash if you really want to. Why stop there? Just go back to town and kill everyone there too!


Yes please! :)

Albrecht Delmorn:
I don't want to be in a game with players like Larmiun and especially Ailishi, who blow everything out of proportion and have to turn everything into a dick showing contest. Yes, I know I started this whole thing, but a simple "Oh shit, my bad, maybe we shouldn't torture this guy" and BOOM, Albrecht would have happily went on his way and we'd be halfway back to town now.


ROFL OMG!
Ailishi Urcmon:
"That is good to know. Tell me where the dogs are now. How many of you are left and where I can find them." Ailishi now buries the blade a little inside the leader's shoulder.


Albrecht, you started all this shit just because Ailishi buried the blade a little inside the leader's shoulder. And you say that Ailishi and Larmiun blowed this out of proportion and turned this into a dick contest? Your level of hypocrisy is high. Epic high.



Everyone... unless Ailishi is good, he can do evil things. And he has the freedom to do it as he can do good things. He is not evil just because he tortures someone, particularly an enemy. You are defending an enemy? Do you understand that you are defending the guy that wanted you dead?. And Law cares shit about good or evil, it is about allowed or not allowed. Lawful evil IS a possible alignment.
D&D cares shit about RL philosophy. What Ailishi is doing is evil. And in D&D Evil is a defined term. Ailishi obviously cares shit if torturing is evil or not. Again, that doesn't make him evil. If any of you have a problem with a little evil from time to time, then fighting right here and right now is the best outcome. Otherwise it is just postponing the inevitable.



DM:
I was pointing out that your character was to smart and to wise to undertake the course of action you are taking.....


And by doing so you also told everyone that they shouldn't target his will save. That is an advantage over him.
DM
GM, 418 posts
Mon 14 May 2018
at 06:40
  • msg #473

Re: OOC Thread

I've had enough of this disruptive behavior.

Telling other players they should leave will end now.

Neutral characters cannot willy dilly do evil deeds that makes you evil.

Attacking people who just saved you from an ambush because you disagree on how they wish to treat prisoners is evil.

You may find this world very hard to live in as evil, just a warning. None of you have established any ties to local people, you have no support network, and really no one owing you any favors. Stupid evil gets you killed, makes enemies etc. Yes I planned a path for evil people to potentially join the Temple eventually, however you aren't far enough along yet, and they have no reason to trust you anymore than the town would if you pursue this course of action.

Keep in mind most of you know Elmo is the son of the Captain of the Militia, his brother is an adventurer (though no one in town has seen him in about 6 months).

Rufus and Burne will not be happy if Elmo is killed and certainly will not be employing anyone known to turn on their fellows.

Keep in mind in 1st Edition which is this adventure, you didn't start building a castle until you were name level....meaning Rufus and Burne are both at least 9th or 10th level....and yes I did make them gestalts just like you, not all NPCs are but several important ones are, including some of the bad guys.
Ailishi Urcmon
player, 104 posts
Go ahead, say
that I have a girly name.
Mon 14 May 2018
at 10:46
  • msg #474

Re: OOC Thread

I don't agree with the idea that a single evil act makes you evil, but this is your game and if this turns me evil... well, I will not be harmed by Protection from Good.

Saving us from an ambush? Ailishi didn't see any ambush. All he has seen is a group of adventurers fighting a group of bandits and he helped. Well, not much, the fight was practically finished.

Ailishi has made some ties with an old soldier and his family. In any case, he didn't need to "makes ties" with anyone to go adventuring. He gets paid, and vanquish evil. He has been taught that is all he really needs.



I do agree that right now Larmiun is at a tactic disadvantage and the DM hasn't rectified this situation.

And since the DM's view of stupid evil is not mine, I don't foresee any joy from this game in the future.

I step aside. No need to worry about Ailishi now.
DM
GM, 419 posts
Mon 14 May 2018
at 10:55
  • msg #475

Re: OOC Thread

Very well I accept your resignation
Velox
player, 214 posts
Mon 14 May 2018
at 11:32
  • msg #476

Re: OOC Thread

In reply to Ailishi Urcmon (msg # 474):

Bye Ailishi.

I don’t cast any spells that target anyone’s saves. I cast healing spells and comprehend languages. So no worries there. I am 99% sure that is true for everyone except Milander :).

Also, no one is at a tactical disadvantage if we stop this nonsense:)
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