tmagann
 member, 457 posts
Thu 25 May 2017
at 02:18
Leaving a game
Can you folks arrange it so we can remove ourselves as players from a game? If you quit a game and the DM doesn't remove you, it keeps popping up, over and over, in your list. I've had to make multiple requests over a couple weeks before to get removed from a couple of different games, over the years.

Yes, I realize that a GM might like to preserve the character, but shift it to NPC automatically when the player opts out, and everyone is happy. And old games wills stay out of current lists.
Evil Empryss
 member, 1544 posts
 Insert witty and
 appropriate quote here
Thu 25 May 2017
at 02:28
Leaving a game
The mods have repeatedly said that this is never going to happen.  The GM retains control over the addition or removal of players from the game.

That said, if you request it but a GM doesn't remove you after a week, you can rmail the Mods and let them know (with a link to the PM you sent your GM that you want to leave) and they'll remove you.

This message was last edited by the user at 02:28, Thu 25 May.

tmagann
 member, 458 posts
Thu 25 May 2017
at 02:30
Leaving a game
That;s better than nothing,and would have been helpful more than once...

I still think that PLAYERS leaving a game should be up to the player in question, not the just GM. Not characters, PLAYERS.

And giving the GM a week to NOT remove a player seems a bit generous.
gladiusdei
 member, 543 posts
Thu 25 May 2017
at 02:32
Leaving a game
it's because the game, and everything in it, is the GM's property and responsibility.  So they are in charge of it.  It seems reasonable to just ask them to be removed, and if you are not after a week, to have the mods do it.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15363 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Thu 25 May 2017
at 02:41
Re: Leaving a game
tmagann:
I still think that PLAYERS leaving a game should be up to the player in question, not the just GM. Not characters, PLAYERS.

It IS up to the player.  But leaving a game without letting the GM know is just completely unacceptable.
tmagann
 member, 459 posts
Thu 25 May 2017
at 02:46
Leaving a game
In reply to gladiusdei (msg # 4):

The game may be his,but the list and the desktop the list is on are MINE. I don't want to have to keep deleting the game every time someone makes a post, just because the GM hasn't gotten around to it yet.

The game is his. My entrance to it is his. He can remove me from it when he wants. I just want the ability to remove myself when *I* want,not when he decides he'll get around to it.

I'm not asking for control over his game. Just the right to exit when I want to and be done with it, not to have to wait until he decides to handle it, or enough time has passed t hat I can ask someone else to.

Giving players an opt out button that doesn't erase the character is no threat to a GM or his ownership of his game.

Why is this concept so hard to understand? It's MY desktop, His rights are protected, give me some. It's such a simple thing to do.

And, frankly, people leave games all the time without letting GMs know. they just leave the character there and don't say anything. This would actually inform a GM that the player has left the game even if the player didn't bother to. So it's a bonus for the GM, too
bigbadron
 moderator, 15364 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Thu 25 May 2017
at 03:00
Leaving a game
Players leave games without the GM knowing, yes.

But the game keeps popping up to remind them of it.  It was deliberately set up that way.  Why?  Because vanishing players is one of the biggest complaints that GMs had about PbP sites.
quote:
Why is this concept so hard to understand?

Why is the concept that players leaving a game without saying a word is disruptive to the game (including the other players) so hard to understand?

Let the GM know that you want to leave.  If he doesn't do it within a reasonable time, then contact us.  Seems like a perfectly sensible way to do things -- you can't join a game without speaking to the GM, and the same applies to leaving it.

Can't live with that?  Well, not to put too fine a point on it, find another site.
tmagann
 member, 460 posts
Thu 25 May 2017
at 03:03
Leaving a game
In reply to bigbadron (msg # 7):

We disagree on "Reasonable amount of time". I'm asking for the same consideration to be given to players dissatisfied with a GM that GMs have when dissatisfied with a player.

Not to put to fine a point on it, But I'm entitled to my own opinion. And if I recommend you moderate another site if you don't like it, YOU can take action. So I won't.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15365 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Thu 25 May 2017
at 03:09
Leaving a game
I was not questioning that you can have your own opinion, I was giving you some advice.

We aren't going to give you the option to quit a game without letting the GM know - if you want the ability to do that, you will need to find another site that does give you that ability.
Evil Empryss
 member, 1545 posts
 Insert witty and
 appropriate quote here
Thu 25 May 2017
at 03:12
Leaving a game
The reasonable amount of time requires only three things from you:

1.  You tell your GM you want out (you don't even need to explain your departure, just PM them).
2.  Wait seven days to see if the GM does as you requested.
3.  Rmail the mods with a link to the PM requesting to be removed from the game.

A week is not a long time and you don't even need to respond to any GM responses once you make your announcement.  I've left a game under rather nasty circumstances once, and the gM wanted to argue with me about me leaving.  I just waited, ignored the lit game, and then let the Mods do their thing.  Easy peasy.  This is a good compromise considering some GMs might not even log on but once a week and might not have even seen your request by the time you ask the Mods to do it.
tmagann
 member, 461 posts
Thu 25 May 2017
at 03:23
Leaving a game
Actually, both times it came up for me, they were posting daily, and ignored multiple requests to be removed. I didn't know about the Moderator 1 week rule, and had to wait nearly a month before a GM got tired enough of my requests to finally delete me.

I'm not asking for GM control of their game or the characters to be removed or reduced. Just a good reason to give them a week to get around to doing something most could have done in a day. And a week is a bit more time than they should need, if they're still there. If they aren't, all the more reason to be able to opt out ourselves.

I just do not get why this is seem as so unreasonable. I truly do not.
gladiusdei
 member, 544 posts
Thu 25 May 2017
at 03:30
Leaving a game
Because some games and gms move slower than others.  Some may not check the site for a few days.  So a week gives plenty of time for the player to ask to be removed, and the Gm to see the request.

if they made it a short time, say a day or so, it drastically increases the possibility of a player being removed from a game before the gm sees the request.  And that is what the rules are trying to avoid.

This message was last edited by the user at 03:35, Thu 25 May.

Evil Empryss
 member, 1546 posts
 Insert witty and
 appropriate quote here
Thu 25 May 2017
at 03:33
Leaving a game
BBR, quick related question: what do you do with the characters associated with the player?  Do you delete everything or do you transfer them to the GM?  I didn't pay attention the few times I needed you to step in.
tmagann
 member, 462 posts
Thu 25 May 2017
at 03:36
Leaving a game
But how often does that actually happen? Not once in my experience, which dates back to well, it's been years. It took me a bit to find this site after Irony died.

No, it's been a case of GMs that post, but wont' remove. I don't see a reason to wait a week because they refuse to remove you. This isn't what MIGHT happen, but what,in my experience, actually IS happening. Oh, far from every Gm, but still, let's address the actual issue the IS happening, rather than the one that MIGHT happen.

Again, not sure why that's a hard concept to grasp, but, obviously, it is, so I'm likely wasting my time.

Still, I thought it worth the time to at least ASK.
gladiusdei
 member, 545 posts
Thu 25 May 2017
at 03:39
Leaving a game
The policy they created is for all games.  You do not account for all games.  So the policy doesn't quite fit your experience, but it is what was put in place to try to be respectful of both players and gms of all styles of play. Unfortunately that's how wide ranging policy has to work.  it has to fit all types, so it never fits every type perfectly.

your reaction is as if the policy was put in place to spite you.  It's actually designed to try to give the maximum amount of respect to all involved and keep things civil.  If they decreased the time, it could burn gms.  if they increased it, it could burn more players.  A week was what they decided fit best.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15366 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Thu 25 May 2017
at 03:39
Leaving a game
A week is a reasonable compromise - it allows for unexpected absences, vacations, illness, working overtime, etc... while not dragging the process of game removal out to extremes.

It also allows time for discussion, if desired, and for the player and GM to consider their options.

Some don't consider a week reasonable, but others do.  Still others consider two weeks (or a month, or longer) to be reasonable.  Obviously we can't set the waiting period to suit every user's personal preference, so we compromised.

@Evil Empryss - We transfer the characters to the GM.

This message was last edited by the user at 03:42, Thu 25 May.

Shannara
 moderator, 3722 posts
 Keep calm, drink more
 COFFEE!!!!
Thu 25 May 2017
at 10:05
Leaving a game
One of the things that has benefited me most since I started this online writing/roleplaying thing is finally getting into the mindset that I do not have to read anything I don't want to read.

This includes PMs, posts, rmails, emails, etc.

Once upon a time, that 'new' marker was like an itch I couldn't bear not to scratch, even when I knew no good could come of it.  Now ... pffft.

A week is nothing, and nobody can continue a discussion with you in the meantime via these methods unless you let them by reading/responding.

I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but it is something that's done wonders for my peace of mind.
SunRuanEr
 member, 46 posts
Thu 25 May 2017
at 11:40
Re: Leaving a game
This topic has pretty much been handled, I think, but having caught this last night on my phone I just wanted to touch on one specific part:

tmagann:
Yes, I realize that a GM might like to preserve the character, but shift it to NPC automatically when the player opts out, and everyone is happy. And old games wills stay out of current lists.


I don't want players disappearing from my game without so much as a by-your-leave, but that bolded segment would make it especially detrimental. I find, in my experience, that players treat characters with an NPC tag far, far worse than they treat their fellow PCs (despite the fact that the only difference in them is who is controlling them). In a lot of cases, it's more beneficial to have an abandoned character remain a PC, controlled by either the GM or another player (perhaps while being shopped around for a replacement player) than to immediately have them move to the bottom of the list and pick up an NPC tag that is like a big neon sign (apparently) that 99% of the players no longer have to pay attention to it.

If - IF - there was ever an option for players to leave a game on their own (and thank goodness there isn't), it would need to be as covert and non-obvious as possible, IMO. It's just not good for the running or the morale of a game, otherwise.
donsr
 member, 1111 posts
Thu 25 May 2017
at 14:13
Re: Leaving a game
after  reading all this, I will  add this.

 I have been here a while..have 3 games  2 , a bit more successful they  one..but..they are still running.

 when a RTJ comes in, I will layout what  I expect from the player, and what the player can expect from me..

  one of the main points  , is  a player asking to  be taken off the  game. When that happens , I'll send a PM to make sure things  are 'alright', or if they wish to stay on the list in case they wish to come back ( my games  aren't for everyone..and the Vets I have help make the games strong)

 somewhere up this page , a Player wrote ' you don't have to read anything you do not wish'... That is   the  quick -fix.

 For me , and  MOST of the GMs I player for, the list is cleared  quickly, after  a request to be dropped... This is solely on the GM..and a good GM will keep his   player's sheet up to date and clean.

 One of the strong, most impressive part of this site's foundations, Is the GM is in charge of his/her  game...they suffer punishment  from breaking  rules, and the games  are , more or less , their brain child.  For My part? I have no idea why a GM would keep a plyer on the list, after a request to be dropped. Switching over the PCs takes  a second or so...to write them out takes  about the same.

 But?  in the long run, the GM being in  control of their ship, is a wee bit more important, then a miffed player who's  screen lights up from time to time....don't get me wrong..it should be taken care of right away...but the site is  build on  GM's having control of their games.
AramilNailo
 member, 41 posts
Wed 14 Jun 2017
at 16:07
Re: Leaving a game
Honest question:

Could there be a mechanism that would auto notify the DM and set a timer for 7 days that can be cancelled by the player before they are removed even if the DM doesn't want it?

I dunno how extendable RPOL is, but it strikes me as a system that could allow both player driven removal of a game AND DM notification and rectification time.

Furthermore then the mods don't need to do anything.

Example:
Bob wants to leave and triggers the timer.

A notification is sent to DM
A time is flagged as the trigger time
A cancel button appears for Bob

DM can then talk to Bob and sort it out (Cancel button pressed by Bob clearing the time)
or
DM can reassign and remove Bob early
or
One week later Bob is removed from the game

No Mod necessary.
That said, I could see how it might be beneficial for Mods to be aware of any toxic games or DMs should that be another main benefit not being mentioned here.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15370 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Wed 14 Jun 2017
at 17:16
Re: Leaving a game
Or people can send a private message to the GM, then contact us if they don't action the request in a reasonable time.

No need to code anything.

As for not bothering the moderators - requests for us to remove players are uncommon enough that they are no bother at all.

And, as mentioned above, we will not add a way for players to remove themselves from a game.  So with your idea, if the GM  didn't remove them, they'd still need to contact us.
donsr
 member, 1121 posts
Wed 14 Jun 2017
at 18:22
Re: Leaving a game
 as nodded in the above messages...

 Good  manners should  have the character request  to be dropped

 Good manner has the  GM  deleting  after replying to that request.

 sometimes a GM ( I have done this) will ask a Good player if what the reason was...but the bottom line, if they don't want in my game, why would I want them?
Alex Vriairu
 member, 410 posts
Fri 16 Jun 2017
at 01:13
Re: Leaving a game
Personally I'll just leave the game up on my list, don't have to worry about it then.