Why are there so many of the things?

I am quite new to the site, so I may be interpreting this incorrectly, but it looks kinda off-putting. I'm trying to get more people into this, but when I see A on nearly every players wanted post I second guess myself. Why do we need explicit sexual content in so many games?

If I tried to tell my friends about this place and they saw that they'd never play here. Just saying.

Am I wrong about adult games or is there something I'm missing here?

I have a GM I game3d with for years.. she  puts Adult on hers  to keep kids out of her games, and..in case  folks get frisky.

 for me?.. all my games  are Mature, and I try to keep  it 'over 18' just so I get folks with commitment . My games  are darker, folks get blown up, eaten sad stories  ect ect… but if  folks   deciede to hook up, they fade to black.

 I stay away from Adult games  myself, because i'm here for the stories, adventure  and RP..not   the  extra stuff.

There has been a rash of Adult ratings lately. I think part of the problem is that folks are confusing Mature and Adult, at least as far as RPoL uses them. I avoid them because I don't see the need for too much detail in blood and gore, and RPGs are sexual activities in my mind.

A game being Adult just means that any of the following CAN appear in it:
/help/content.cgi?t=faqs&page=adultpolicy

Not that any/all of it is. Might depend on the type of game. A lot of D&D games I'm in are Adult but get nowhere near sexual content. Could be for gore/drug/to be safe or as donsr said just to keep people out.

Adult games don't have to necessarily include explicit sexual themes. There are other reasons to need the tag. For instance, I have a crime drama game that includes gritty and graphic drug use and other street-level crime, which doesn't necessarily include sex, but it's not content I'd be comfortable presenting to minors, so it gets the Adult tag.

And like donsr said, sometimes people add the Adult tag simply because they don't want to game with kids.

I totally agree with the fade to black thing. My point is the mature tag seems to encompass what I would consider mature and adult themed in a game. While adult tag gives off a vibe of people doing horrid things while frantically typing on their keyboard to some imaginary situation.

So why not have a way to only allow 18+ and also disallow sexual content? If people are using the adult tag just because they don't want kiddos then it seems a little misused. It frankly comes off as immature (not trying to bash anyone else here, you do you booboo).


Again, this is me trying to introduce more people to the site and not have them run off immediately.

The way to only allow 18+ and disallow sexual content is simple: Tag the game Adult, and disallow sexual content in your game rules. Lots of games do precisely that.

over the eyars    that  I have played  and run games here?  I really hate when we have players  come in , that after the  pre-acceptance  talk, said  ,yeah they were  teens  ect…

 I don't  care so much about the age,  the  games I have don't have  any thing worse in the most M  Video GAmes ( I know cause I play, left grandkids  play with the  stiff edict  that if they talk  like that aroudn  me or their parnest they are done ::chuckles::

 But, I have  damn good players, swearing   is kept to 'mild' with  "hard stuff' saved  for expounding on  anger  ect……

 havign said  all this, I hate to spend the time  with a  'kid'..and then  they go dark, its  easy enough to cover the   vanishing  character, but it leaves a hole for players who liked   'sharing the fox hole: with them.


 regardless?.. I still stay away from Adult  games, and  Id Never  really run one.

I have just as many adult players disappear on me as I have minor ones, personally, donsr.

But I'd say your reservations, Fleahop, comes from a misperception of what the Adult tag is used for. Yeah, it's used for sex games, and you're allowed to feel about that whatever you'd like, but it's also used for a lot of other reasons.

For instance, a horror game based on splatterhouse films like Saw would need the Adult tag, even if there was never so much as an errant peck on the cheek.

And you can ask players to only apply to your Mature game if they are 18+, but the Adult tag means they are in breach of the site rules if they lie about their age in order to apply, and the whole thing is taken care of automatically by the age check that's prompted when entering an Adult game.

 Yep Nowhereman…  I had folks   vbanich..I don't keep ghosts with out a heads up... by the ypunger  folks have a lot more  'real life' things..even college kids  ebb and flow  with when they are in school and when they are not

The problem is: You don't necessarily know WHY the GM is using it, so you have to assume that it includes anything. Even the things you might want to avoid in a game. With Mature, you don't have that problem.

And why can't you just... Ask? I'd think that asking about game expectations was kind of expected anyway.

Just making an observation here...about 40% of the games on the first couple pages of the players wanted forum are adult in nature. About a tenth of those don't allow sexual content in their games. A little less than half have obvious sexual themes. The others are up in the air and don't say.

It gives a seedy vibe. I've been in quite a few game shops and watched quite a few games or was around while they played. That doesn't happen there, and I don't understand why it's a thing here. From what little "adult" roleplay I've been around or witnessed, it tends to be very immature and basic. Rarely does it help the group either. Why not go to discord or one of the many other areas where you two or three can live out your fantasy?

Well I guess I'll introduce them and tell them not to worry about it. I just wanted to know why it was so prevalent and my question was answered I guess. Hopefully it isn't too off putting. I really didn't expect it to be so often used honestly.

Your experiences, Fleahop, are decidedly limited. Would it be reasonable for me to say "Well, every Dungeons and Dragons game I've ever seen has been a bunch of fat nerdboys playing chainmail bikini elf chicks," and say that all of the D&D games in Wanted: Players make it "seedy" or "immature"?

In my experience it isn't "confusing M and A" as much as "GM doesn't want to have to worry if a Player get's overly descriptive of something before the GM can force a Fade To Black".

And it ensures they are getting adults.  Not that that necessarily indicates more maturity ont he part of the Players, but the perception is there.

We have that already.  A GM is free to make his game Adult, and still require that his players fade to black for sexual content.

This is, in no way, misusing the system.

Also note that, as others have mentioned, the Adult flag does not apply exclusively to sexual content.  It's perfectly possible to disallow sexual content, and still have a game that requires an Adult flag.

The current system of three ratings is far simpler and clearer than adding multiple grades for things like, "no sex, but still 18+".
This message was last edited by the user at 20:09, Fri 20 July 2018.

In reply to NowhereMan (msg # 14):

Yeah it would. If you touch something and it's hot then someone tells you it's not hot, who do you believe? Using prior experiences with a thing to judge it is human nature and I'm just describing my experiences.

You're incredibly right about them being limited, but it's all I have to go off of. I love the tools on this site and how it's set up and would really like my like-minded friends to join up. So yeah I'm going to try it with them and see if they care or not.

Keep in mind, also, that the "A" rating allows for GMs to have a built in safety net so their game (which they are held fully responsible for the content of no matter who actually posted what) isn't as easily in violation of the rules. It's simply easier if you already have players over 18 to toss up the tag just in case something goes sideways that you miss. It's extra helpful also for games where you don't actually know all the players you have well and aren't sure if they will do things outside of the posting guidelines you set when you aren't paying attention, or if you are away for a period of time and can't actively police it.

In all cases though, the best policy is that if you aren't sure what the expectations of a game are, ask. If you aren't comfortable with the requirements or expectations, you can always opt not to play. I've been in "A" games before and they've never included any sexual content at all, but maybe some might have considered the violence graphic? Others, maybe not. With an "A" rating, you don't have to worry about what side of a blurred line you might be on with your content in that case.

It should simply be enough to allay your friends fears by saying, the "A" rating is not necessarily synonymous with XXX ratings, though if you are looking for those games, that's the only place you will find them. But if you are really worried about that possibility, ask, or just limit yourself to "M" or general games. They are there, if you look for them.

Not really. Proof of age isn't required: It's on the Honor System. Some folks DO lie, especially when it helps get them what they want. An Adult rating is no assurance of 18+ year old players.

By that logic, a General-rated game has no assurance of not having graphic sexual content, either.

In reply to NowhereMan (msg # 20):

Oh, the moderators will shut it down if it does. And you can tell the content simply by reading posts.

Not so with age verification here.

Rules like laws will be broken, but they give enforcers means to punish those misusing them and a rubric for what's to be expected if/ when that happens.

And yet we have a surprisingly high success rate in discovering those who have lied about their age.

In reply to tmagann (msg # 21):

The content of the Go to Your Room! Chamber of Lost Souls says otherwise. Granted, it probably hasn't caught everybody, but it has been enforced.

In reply to bigbadron (msg # 23):

Possibly...or possibly you just don't realize just how many folks are fibbing.

And that is the difference between optimism and pessimism. :-)

in the  end?   the Mods  can't  catch everyone... but the ones they do  catch are extracted.

 There was a Player in my game  had  another  game that used a lot of my homebrew, with  some of his  added to it.. was a nice  game..but..he was busted for  Duel Profiles... I had to remove him from my game to?

 that's the way it goes...you hope you don't lose  anyone, but they rolled the dice and lost...

Assuming you're absolutely correct, tmagann, and Adult games are inundated with 9-year-olds (:P) then there's still an important functional difference:

In the case of sexual or other adult content coming up in my game, if a minor is viewing that content, and the game is rated Adult, they are the ones breaking the rules, not me.

In reply to tmagann (msg # 25):

Never been called an optimist before.

Just to put my two cents into the continuing conversation.

I believe that if you have to put a special tag on the vast majority of games, with a good number of them being the most restrictive, then they aren't being used correctly. When 90% or more (of my quick survey) of games have at least a mature tag it makes you wonder why do the tags exist?

If people really don't want minors in their games, which seems to be the case, there should be a way to verify age. I doubt the majority of minors in adult games are caught, so it'd also help with that issue.

There is a way to verify age, Fleahop. When you attempt to join an Adult game, it prompts an age check. Those checks are stored, and inconsistencies lead to bans from Adult games. Yeah, a particularly consistent minor could lie convincingly and not get caught, but without access to government databases for every nation with Internet access, there's no way to independently verify the stated ages.

Ok, going to peek my head in here.

I play in Adult Games, specifically for the sexual aspect of the writing. With that said, I don't do it for porn, to get off or stuff like that. I do it because I enjoy writing something that deep. While some of it is fantasy like, not all of it is.

When it comes to Adult games like that, everyone here give or take who play or GM's them are very dedicated to things going well and smoothly. Even with the Adult Sexual games, there are things that cannot be done in them. And that is taken very seriously. As a GM, we watch for things and stop them right away if they come up. If need it, removing the player and reporting them. If there is even a doubt or an inkling that someone might be underage, and lying about their age. We report it, we make sure the Mods are aware of it and they get banned from the Adult games. That even includes people who are of age, but don't act like it.

Of course you can't absolutely get everyone, maybe there are a few on the site in the adult section who are 14 but act surprisingly adult and mature. It's possible, an i. f they slip someone will be there to report them. Nothing is a perfect catch for this unfortunately, as it is the internet. And you know everyone tells the truth on the internet... :P But we have a pretty good system here, compared to other places.

The thing is with the Adult games here also, is we are very protective. And it is safer here, then other websites for us. Other websites, horrible, horrible things go on there. And no matter how much the mods try to clean it up it is impossible. It isn't like that here, because we have multiple layers to block out the bad stuff. And anyone serious about the adult games, protects that and protects the players.

You are allowed your opinion, as your friends are. If you like the cool tools of the site that is great. You don't like Adult sexual content that is fine, you are not required to. But to shun RPOl because it has it isn't really fair. The protection we have for our games, are also the protection for you to not have to deal with it.

The Wanted threads are pretty obvious as to what is going to have Adult sexual content most of the time, if you really look at it. And if you are not sure, it is as easy as asking a GM. You have choices here, and you are really never exposed to any adult content unless you want to be. And if you are, and if it shouldn't be there then you alert the GM in the game. Everyone here just wants to have fun and enjoy themselves in the ways they see fit, and RPOl really offers that ability.

You will not find anything else like this around.

Hey prophacyks, you brought up good points and I don't plan on shunning rpol. People can do what they want it doesn't really bother me what's going on elsewhere as I just won't stick my nose in it.

What I'm getting at now is that the majority of games require these tags. Not that I have a problem with that, but if everyone wants non minors then it may be best for the site to make that the status quo.

As for a better way to verify? Just throwing this out there, but I'd pay a one-time one dollar charge to get access to adult games. I'd imagine that would keep minors (especially the early teens) out of those games and in others. I don't imagine most adults will care about sparing one dollar to verify themselves. You can still ban minors if they stole their mom's card or have their own and are caught...but yeah I would be all for that.

I'd also personally do away with the mature tag and instead have an all-ages tag for those very friendly, not so serious games. This is again because of a lack of non-tagged games. Mature games are the majority and should probably be treated as such.

Actually, I think this came up at one point when subscriptions were being talked about, but nothing's come of it yet.

Define "not being used correctly".

The Adult tag is used to restrict access to a game because it contains (or may be intended to contain) restricted content.  Non-members can't read that content (and can't really make any judgement on whether or not it's there).

The Mature flag is simply a warning for site users that the game may contain a small amount of content that some people might find offensive (bad language, references to drug use, etc).  There s no age restriction on Mature games.

Everything else is rated General.



That would be because it's not a popular idea, and it has proved to be impossible to find a payment method that sufficient people find acceptable.

But the tags have worked out well so far, so why change things because you don't like something? Really it comes down to, if you are looking for something specific then you have to do the leg work and ask.

And the money part was already tried for the Adult games. Many of us got together, and fought that because it wasn't fair that we get punished for being an adult. And there is really no difference on what we are fighting, the kid can still find ways around it with credit cards. Really the only thing it would have ended up doing, even if it was a small amount of money. Is it would have alienated a lot of people who love this site, and work to keep it safe. And a good majority would have left, maybe some might have paid it but not alot. And anyone new coming in, they wouldn't want to pay money to be able to write in an adult setting. They would just move onto the other sites that were free.

And again, why change something that has worked well so far? People know exactly what they want their game to be, and why they wanted marked that way. It is simple with the three options, you at least then know what you might be getting. It is up to the GM though if any of it, will be in it.

That last sentence is technically correct, but doesn't tell the whole story.  If I read the policies correctly, the GM is responsible for the content of his/her games, and for verifying the ages of all players.

I've not had anything like what you're saying here happen in one of my games, so I can't speak from experience, but the reality is that we, as GMs, are not exactly "off the hook" if one of our players misrepresents their age and we fail to take action about it when we find out.

No.  While the site does contain a number of Adult games, the games that don't have that rating are open to all.  RPoL has a long-standing reputation as a family friendly site.

In reply to horus (msg # 36):

I haven't have direct issues with minors in adult games, either. I know that as GMs we are required to take action should we discover a minor in an Adult game, but if a player gets their Adult access revoked, are they automatically kicked from Adult games they're already in, or does it just prevent them from getting into new ones?

It doesn't automatically kick them out of existing games, but a revoked Adult access will prevent them posting in any Adult game (even ones where they are listed as a member).

If a player disappears from your Adult game for several days, it's probably worth checking CoLS to see if they've turned out to be a minor.
This message was last edited by the user at 22:11, Fri 20 July 2018.

Noted. Thanks, Ron!

And technically as a GM, you should be checking the CoLS anytime it lights up so you are aware of who to watch out for or remove.

Is there a pressing reason for that?  Because it seemed like a pretty big gap in the system. At the least, some sort of direct notice to folks running the games would seem useful.

I've been in a few adult games.  Some had sexual content, some didn't.  But complaining that RPOL might turn people off because a lot of games have Adult tags on them is kinda like claiming people will stop going to the megaplex because half the movies are R rated.  It's also a flawed argument to say that the majority of games are tagged Adult...as you explained it, that was based off of looking at the first couple of pages in the Wanted:Players forum, yes?

On any given day, the first two pages there represent a very slim fraction of the total games on RPOL.  It doesn't even give an accurate cross-section of what kinds of games are on RPOL, because one day, you may look and it would appear everything is D&D or Pathfinder.  On another day, the majority may be sci-fi, or horror.  And depending on the day, there may be enough games posting ads to fill the first two or three pages of the forum, just that day alone.  Games are allowed to advertise there a maximum of once every seven days...you have to go a LOT of pages in to get to seven-day-old ads (or did the last time I checked it...it's been a long time, personally.)

Even then, shunning a game because it has an Adult tag is like refusing to see a movie because it's got an R rating.  Saving Private Ryan, Schindler's List, Hacksaw Ridge, Predator, Aliens, and a long list of other movies have very strong R ratings...and no sexual content to speak of (that I recall, anyway)...some don't even have so much as a good, passionate kiss.  There are a lot of award-winning movies that have R-ratings...are they seedy because their intended audience is over 17?  The megaplex metaphor still applies...if it's something you don't want to see, nobody's forcing you to buy a ticket.  There's obviously an audience for it, and the site is here to provide a place for that audience to get their fill.  Doesn't mean they're all starving for smut...but in the same way that some directors want the freedom to be able to show graphic imagery (some want it because it is the only way to really tell the story...others want it because they just enjoy it), some GMs want to be as free as possible to tell their story (and to let their players participate in it equally freely).  If it's not your thing, great...don't do it.  The three games I'm currently active in are all either General or Mature...personally, I don't care what the rating of the game is, I'm interested in whether or not the story is one that appeals to me.  The Adult games I've been in, I didn't join because they were Adult...I joined for the story.  They could have been General or Mature, instead of Adult, and I still would have joined the game.  The games I'm in now could have been Adult, and I still would have joined them.  I sort my games like I sort my movies...What's it about?  Is it well-written/an engaging or intriguing plot? etc etc etc.  Somewhere about fifteen steps down that list is, "What is it rated?"  And the only reason that's on the list at all is to justify the follow-up question, "Why does it have that rating?"

In reply to facemaker329 (msg # 43):

Actually, R is covered by Mature. Adult is X.

And, yes, I avoid movies that get a X for violence alone. No sex. Or I did when that sort of X movie was still made, anyhow.

In reply to swordchucks (msg # 42):

Time.  Some users have thirty or forty (or a hundred) Adult games on their Sticky List.  Some they have joined, some they thought the title was cool, and some they haven't applied to yet but are thinking about a character...

We don't have time to check through all of those games, work out which of them the player had actually joined, then notify the GMs.

So we provide two methods for the GM to keep an eye on his own players - one is the CoLS, and the other is the check players list that appears in the GM Menu of every Adult game (which automatically tells a GM if his existing players have Adult access or not).

In reply to bigbadron (msg # 45):

Now, I rarely do anything with adult games, so that might account for why I've not run across it... but how does the average GM know about this tool and this obligation?

Personally, I had assumed that players that had their adult access revoked were programmatically blocked from viewing content.  I really doubt I'm the only one to make that assumption.

What obligation?

And your assumption is correct.  As I said above (msg #39), players without Adult access are blocked from any Adult games.  They are still counted as members of any game they had joined (at least until the GM reassigns their characters), but they can't actually do anything in those games.

I'm actually going to start running only Adult rated games, for the aforementioned reason that I don't want to get myself in trouble.

My IRL group frequently delves into Adult territory, whether as part of the story or simply jokes and side-chatter that occur based on the situation the players find themselves in.  Some of it sex related, some of it violence, some of it gore.

I particularly enjoy providing gross-out descriptions of hideous monsters in an effort to disgust my players so that they are happy to be rid of the creature.

I originally assumed that I could get by with an Mature rating, but quickly found myself in conversations that were bordering on Adult.  I don't want to have to constantly police my posts and stress over whether or not something crosses the line.  I also don't want to be limited in what I post or what happens in the story.

I've seen other people call this reasoning a 'cop-out' but I consider it a valid reason to apply the Adult tag.  I'm an Adult.  I talk about Adult things.

I have always wondered how many underage players are here, playing in Adult games, but smart enough to be consistent in their age statements and not to give it away in their posts, especially OOC, and mature enough in their posting, not to get caught.  I think of someone I played with on another site who was only 14 when we met.  The game we were in had some pretty mature topics, and I had to keep reminding myself of his age (not because he cared or was upset, but because there were things I didn't feel comfortable playing out with him, even though they weren't things that would be against the Adult rules here) because his posts were consistently mature and detailed beyond what the average young teenager could do.

Yeah, we sometimes wonder that too, which is why we spend so much of our "free" time making sure that it isn't happening that often.

And, of course, there is a big risk involved.  Say you are 17, and we find that you've been playing in Adult games for a few years (maybe lying about your age since you were 14)... we would remove your Adult access.  We would also not be compelled to restore it on the date which you claim is your 18th birthday (after all, you now have a well established reputation for lying about your age).

So... consider that a great many Adult GMs say they're not running Adult games for the sexual content, but so that their players are free to express themselves using Adult language... is it REALLY worth risking your future Adult access when you're 14, just so you can drop the occasional F-bomb in a post?
This message was last edited by the user at 06:42, Sun 22 July 2018.

I think for most 14-year-olds, it's probably more about "playing with the Big Kids" than it is a matter of what Adult access really allows you to do in a game. The natural evolution of the five-year-old chasing after the older kids on his Big Wheel.

Not really, by 14 even before it more and more are thinking about adult stuff if not trying it. Things have changed since I was 14, and I am shocked to see what teens are doing now a days. But really most kids thinking like that are going to be the ones who get caught the easiest. As they are not thinking on a more mature level, just the base level of what they want. It is the ones who are thinking on the more mature level, thinking deeper into things is where it gets tricky. I would think though that we run more into the non-mature then the mature ones now a days. As really to trick everyone for that long, there has to be some common sense in play. And from what I have seen with kids, over many years now. Common sense is in short supply anymore. Of course in that thinking, there are people over 18 now that sometimes you have to wonder if they are really that age as they act very immaturely. Which for me, I know I have had to report to get their Adult status revoked in the past, because they really mentally didn't belong in that kind of game. They just didn't have a clue what it is like to adult yet.

The thing is with RPOL, is unlike most places with adult content. There are a lot of people watching. Not just the Mods, but GM's, and players. We all know we want this to be a good place, and in turn if we see something wrong we will not just ignore it. As a GM if we did we could get in trouble for it. RPOL also has a higher level of security then most places. While they like any other site, take it on honor system you have to jump through hoops to do it. Plus worry about getting found out. Porn sites don't even have that kind of security, and they are the ones that could get into the most trouble. That is why I keep coming back here, other then going to other adult RPing websites. It is just all around a lot better here.

In reply to bigbadron (msg # 50):

But what if you didn't find out until they were several years of age?  And if they were careful, and smart, enough to play undetected from 14 to plus 18, they would probably not get caught unless they finally wanted to use their correct date of birth.  They aren't likely to be the type to go for bragging about what they got away with.

Know that we did the best we could with the tools we have, and not lose any sleep over it.

That's what I'd do ... along with casting a vote for a permanent site ban.

Others' mileage may vary.
This message was last edited by the user at 02:06, Mon 23 July 2018.

In reply to Brianna (msg # 53):

I think Shannara about covered it.

I can see Fleahop’s point that having so many games tagged as Adult gives a bad impression of the site. Regardless of what is actually contained in the games, or what rationale led the GM to choose that rating, all a visitor to the site can see is ADULT, ADULT, ADULT, all down the page, and everyone knows what ‘Adult material’ means, don’t they? (nudge nudge, wink wink).

That perception may be mistaken in our context, but it is the common perception nevertheless - particularly to a newcomer who is not familiar with our usage of the term, and I can see how it may turn away potential members.

If your multiplex cinema gets a reputation for showing mainly X rated movies, and being frequented by a bunch of old men in raincoats, you might not be comfortable going there, or allowing your kids to go there, even when it advertises a Disney. Having too many Adult-rated games can threaten our family-friendly reputation.

I think the site would benefit if, instead of hiding behind a label, GMs took responsibility for the content of their games. If you want a game that has no graphic sexual content, just a smattering of language, and limited gore, then make your game Mature, and enforce its content. Don’t make it Adult ‘just in case somebody does something I don’t want them to do’.

If you rate your game Adult, you’re sending a message to players that Adult content is OK, and of course they’re going to push it. The argument of ‘see, that post would have got me moderated if I’d labelled this game Mature’ doesn’t hold water. And in any case, there are things that players can post, even in an Adult game, that can get you moderated, so you’re still not safe, even hiding behind the Adult tag. (You’re also making the tacit assumption that the moderators are incapable of discerning who’s at fault).

I’ve been playing on this site for over seven years, I’ve never run an Adult game, and I’ve never had someone post something that was inappropriate for the level of game I was running. Either I’ve had a run of very mature-minded players (despite not banning minors) or the folks who run Adult games ‘just in case’ are plain paranoid. If any ‘incident’ did occur, I would deal with it, and if it got reported to the moderators before I’d dealt with it, I have every confidence that they would support me in dealing with it, rather than going overboard and beating me up for it.

If you want to post explicit sexual or criminal activity, make an Adult game. If you want to post sickening gore or potty-mouthed language, make an Adult game. If you want none of those things, make your game Mature, or even General, and help to clean up the perception of Rpol to potential members.

As a linked topic, I’m very much opposed to the blatant ageism displayed, promoted, and even revelled in, by a number of Rpol GMs. I’m likewise opposed to the abuse of the Adult label to support and promote that ageism. That, in itself, is something that visitors may find offensive. It’s another aspect of Rpol’s public image that we may want to examine.

Over-18s do not have a monopoly on reliability or good behaviour.
Yes, teenagers have school or college responsibilities - and adults have work responsibilities.
Yes, teenagers have parents making demands of them - and adults have husbands, wives and children making demands of them (and parents too).
Yes, teenagers can be fickle - so can adults.
Yes, teenagers can get stroppy - so can adults.
Yes, teenagers can find it difficult to string three words together - so can adults.

By all means remove people from your game who harm it with their lifestyle, behaviour or capability, but there is absolutely no rational reason for GMs to discriminate on the grounds of age. That’s just bigotry. It’s not what the Adult label is for - or it shouldn’t be, IMO.

How is ‘I don’t want kids in my game’ different from ‘I don’t want women in my game’, or ‘I don’t want Quinces in my game’, or ‘I don’t want Nectarines in my game?’ Surely the Adult label is there to protect innocents, not to enforce GMs’ prejudices.

Sensible teenage players have enough problems finding a decent game here as it is, with the restrictions imposed on them from the outdatedly prudish international censorship system (which, of course, is beyond the remit of our moderators to relax) without making things more difficult for them by prejudicially banning them from games they ought to be able to participate in.

Just my 2 coins.

I'm sorry, it's a huge difference.  Not wanting to expose minors to certain more mature ideas or have to try to handle minor players, is not the same at all as discriminating AGAINST someone because of their skin or gender.  I love my son more than anything in the world, but I wouldn't expose him to a whole lot of stuff that's out there.  That doesn't mean I hate him, or think less of him, in any way.  In fact, I think so much of him that I want to protect him from things I think could harm him, or that he can't yet handle without it bothering him deeply.

choosing not to include someone, or thinking it is better they not be a part of something, is not always driven by hate or dislike.
This message was last edited by the user at 06:44, Mon 23 July 2018.

Sorry, gladiusdei, you seem to have misunderstood my post. I probably didn't make myself clear enough. Of course you should exclude minors from games that contain explicit adult material, that's a proper use of the system.

What I'm objecting to is GMs who run games that do not contain such material, yet give them an adult label specifically to exclude teenagers, because they believe that teenagers cannot play a sensible game. Or, they deliberately include one or two adult scenes in their game specifically to justify banning minors from the game.
This message was last edited by the user at 07:04, Mon 23 July 2018.

While I guess it could be a negative if they are somehow out to get rid of teenagers, I think most people here are saying that they prefer to play games with older, more mature players, and making the game adult makes that more likely.  Yes, there are immature adults.  Yes, there are mature teenagers.  But by making a game adult, it makes it MORE likely you'll end up with players that are mature.

Ultimately, though, you're really arguing that all people on RPOL shouldn't be jerks.  "Ageism" as you described it in the frame of RPOL is really just being a jerk.  Unfortunately, life is full of jerks, and you just have to learn to deal with them.  You'll never create enough rules to get rid of them all.

Here's a novel idea...if you're concerned that there are so many Adult games that it's negatively impacting site membership (last I heard, that wasn't any sort of problem, but whatever), how about you start some games that aren't Adult and provide alternatives, as opposed to trying to lay some kind of guilt trip on those who are currently running/participating in Adult games?  The problem is just as much a dearth of General and Mature games as it is proliferation of Adult games...at least, among games that are currently advertising.  There's no shortage of General and Mature games...just those that are advertising.  If you feel like the site is too Adult-oriented, sway the balance.  If you're worried that excessive Adult content will scare your friends away, give them a non-Adult game to join.  Plenty of RPOL users have joined to participate in a specific game and then expanded beyond that.

If they've got a game waiting for them when they join, they shouldn't need to look and see just how many Adult games are out there.

Well, I'll have to respectfully disagree with you there. I don't believe that older people are more 'mature' even on averages, nor that by excluding teenagers you are 'more likely' to get a more capable player base. In fact, in my experience, younger people are more likely to change awkward behaviour than adults, because it is less entrenched.
But yes, we need to avoid jerks. :)

I'm all in favour of running more Mature games. I'm currently running as many as I can handle. I'm simply arguing that if we can reduce the number of unnecessarily labelled Adult games, by convincing some GMs that the moderators are not ogres and that teenagers are not gremlins, that will also sway the balance.

GM's are free to choose any rating they feel comfortable with, as long as the content of their game does not violate the site's rules regarding their chosen rating.  Their game, their choice.  RPoL's policy is that a GM is free to run their game how they choose, as long as they comply with our rules.

The reasoning behind their choices is, quite frankly, nobody's business but their own.  If a GM decides to run a MLP game, then decides to make it Adult simply because the ponies are all naked, 24/7, then that's his choice.

Having an Adult rating on a game, for ANY reason (or for no reason at all) is entirely up to the GM - if they want to limit their target audience, that's their business.

Just like saying "no psionics", or "no drow", or "no gestalt".  It potentially limits their audience, but its their choice.

IMO, people need to stop worrying about other GM's games, and focus on their own.
This message was last edited by the user at 07:42, Mon 23 July 2018.

This message was deleted by a moderator, as it was against the ToU, at 07:45, Mon 23 July 2018.