Per a member request this thread is now open.

Thanks, Voice...  =)


I have experience on both sides of this equation and am curious about:
1) Do you think DMs/GMs have any obligation to inform players why they weren't chosen (or even that they weren't)?
2) What experiences (good or bad) have you had being told you/your character wasn't accepted to a game?
3) How have/do you handle letting potential players know you selected someone else?
This message was last edited by the player at 00:34, Sun 05 Feb 2023.

"I'm sorry you were not added to the game at this time."

That was the message I sent last time I ran a game.

They aren't under an obligation to anyone. But it is certainly polite.

I've only gotten pushback one time from someone. He litterally said "Let's put making sense aside." During a discussion about his character. So I wrote him off and stopped talking to him. He was mad when I added other players. But fuck'em.

You might not be obligated, but I certainly think it'd be polite.
At the very least, letting them know (even without an explanation) doesn't leave them hanging, waiting for a reply. Not like it takes much of your time.
Telling them "sorry, we're just full at the moment" is easier on their nerves. Maybe they can retry later.
If applicable, could let them know what would need to change to let them in.

If they're just a troublesome applicant, can tell them "sorry, this isn't going to work out," and if they continue pestering, ignore them.

This probably depends on the nature of the game, and workload, but: When I have the amount of players I want, I don't bar others for joining, I just stop actively advertising. (Not to say people automatically get in.)


I've been in the situation of "sorry, we're full" only to later see another character added, haha. (Did get in later though.)

Yeah so far what the others have said I agree with:

1) There isn't an obligation to inform, but it is polite to at least say you didn't get in. Anything beyond that is nice but not needed. In a new game situation there are probably quite a few RTJs and it's understandable for the DM to not give individual responses to everyone saying 'you didn't get in because xyz reasons' and someone else 'you didn't get in because abc reasons' etc. But a generic message of 'I have now picked my players from the many RTJs I received. Thank you for applying however your application was unsuccessful.' Just copy paste that to everyone who didn't get in. At least they are aware and can move on. If they ask for feedback you can give it to them if you want, ignore them or you can give them another generic message of 'Sorry but it would be difficult for me to respond to everyone asking questions for feedback, thank you for your time.'

2) For me just following #1 is enough. So a bad experience is not being told I didn't get in and the only way I know is a look and see the adventure has started and I'm not in it, frustrating. A good one is just telling me I didn't get in so I know I can move on and start looking elsewhere. A great one would be a personalised response that says why I didn't get in. This is great because I do not require or expect it so it is nice if someone goes to the little extra effort to inform rejected players on why they were rejected. But as I said in #1 I would consider that a kindness if they do that rather than a rudeness if they do not.

3) Exactly what I said in #1, a generic message to the failures to let them know to move on. Usually I will ignore any further responses after that. The only exception is if it was someone I really liked and it was just a case of I was looking for 6 players and dthere were 7 really good RTJs then I might give a more detailed response to the rejected player along the lines of 'I really liked your RTJ and honestly it was a tough decision. If you're ok with it I'd like to keep you in mind in case players drop out.'

All good advice to this point.

I'd add that you should make it clear in the RTJ what the process will be after the play submits the RTJ. It's kind of a contract about what you are expecting and will be doing e.g. you won't review until some date, you hope to have completed by some date, and so on.

Definitely a good point, I would suggest that being in the RTJ info itself. Also in that you can include if you're going to tell them if they failed or not. You could just say 'If you have not heard from me by x date you did not get in, thank you for applying.'

I'll put something like "Give me a week to respond to your RTJ/character pitch. If I don't get back to you by then, ping me."
Sometimes I'll reply to their RTJ "I'm tied up and won't get to this for a few days" or such.

It might be good to mention in the RTJ thread that not everyone will be accepted (group size limit or whatever), just to reduce the blow of rejection.

From the player side of the screen, I just feel that "you weren't selected" is kind of a rude f you to the person who put a lot of time and thought into a character concept...

I recently did a rtj for a game where the DM wanted backstory, background, personality traits, ideals, bond, flaw and a writing sample with your character interacting with an NPC...  the response was "the rtj has been closed and unfortunately you weren't selected"...

I admit that, on the surface, that seems like a polite rejection but it still leaves me with unanswered questions...

Was my concept poor? Was my writing sample bad? Did my concept just not fit this particular game? Was it a good concept/writing sample but others were just better? Did you not even read mine because you got so many requests that you found enough players before you even reached mine?

And on and on my mind spins into the dark abyss of doubt...

I try to let people know, not in novel length detail or anything, why they weren't selected...  Kind of a "treat others how you want to be treated" thing but, unfortunately, the prevailing attitude seems to be more of an "I've got my players so go away"

Not on this site, but I once got just "No" as the response to a request I had sent to join a pbp game...
This message was last edited by the player at 13:01, Sun 05 Feb 2023.

I do get where you're coming from for your example, you spent a lot of time on an RTJ and you received very little in your rejection.

However, there are a couple of points I would consider:

First, there are tiers to the response a DM could give: No response, simple rejection (generic sorry but you weren't selected), personalised rejection (I didn't feel your concept would mesh with the others I selected), detailed rejection (this part of your backstory doesn't work, someone else I preferred picked this same class, I didn't think your writing sample would be a good match for me, etc).

Now obviously the more in depth they go the 'nicer' they might be. So already the DM is at least making some level of effort since they could have just gone silent on you. I would regard a simple rejection as at least being 'polite' and anything more than that is being 'nice' or 'more considerate of the time you spent to RTJ'

Second, RTJs can often fill up a lot especially if it's a popular system or setting. So either the DM can be nice and answer everyone with some amount of detail which could potentially take an hour or a few hours which is a lot of time to dedicate to being 'nice' instead of just 'polite'.

In addition, despite the time the DM invests being 'nice' people might still get upset just because they were rejected or, a bit more extreme, because they spent hours on this RTJ anything less than a 5 paragraph response would be considered a slap in the face. There is no objective metric.

Third, often these decisions are not made in one block. By which I mean a DM won't necessarily ignore all the RTJs until the time comes and then sit down and read every one of them, making notes and picking out the best of the bunch over the course of however long that would take - probably a few hours at least depending on the number and detail of responses.

More often a DM will read them as they go and note ones they like and shelve ones they don't as 'maybe reconside this later if I don't get a lot of better ones'. Therefore if the DM has waited a week or two they have already read through the majority of the RTJs days or maybe close to two weeks ago. To give detailed feedback would probably mean re-reading most of the ones they have already dismissed, and why would they do that just to be 'nice' to some people they might never encounter again when they could better spend that time onboarding the players they have selected? A simple 'polite' response will be enough for the purpose of not keeping people hanging around.

Fourth, this is completely opt-in. By this I mean we choose if we are willing to spend our time creating an RTJ with the full understanding that we likely will not be successful. So the amount of time spent on an RTJ is, to my mind, not a reasonable justification for how a rejection comes simply because we choose if we want to RTJ and we know how the system works. A simple 'You have been rejected' I understand it sucks more to hear if we spent 5 hours on it compared to 5 minutes because we feel we wasted a lot more of our time but that is all on us, we chose to RTJ somewhere that would take 5 hours knowing there was a decent chance we wouldn't succeed. Besides it's only time wasted if we let it be. All that time and effort can easily be repurposed for future games.

Depending on the system any level of detail starts to be very difficult. Like any d20 game, Exalted, probably some others. You get like 30 RTJs. All that extra detail is basically tie breakers for what are sure to be good and workable concepts.

I try to give meta data about applications during the application process so people can adjust if they weren't married to their initial concept. Like for exalted I might give a running total off how many RTJs I get for each caste.

RTJs for that are almost all 50% Dawn, 25% Twilight, 25% mix of the others plus three dudes that want to app as a different splat. But usually if I post that I have 15 dawn caste applications a few of the dawn's pitch secondary concepts.

Added point. The rejection letter is not the place to tell you what specific points didn't work. If the fact that you were a slaver in your backstory is a no go that needed to be said prior to final selections. I went off on a GM on rpg crossing because he refused to give input on applications and then canceled the games because the RTJs didn't meet his vision for the game (something like that).

This is not something I ever considered but I will definitely incorporate it into my process. Thank you!



Wow..  Just...  Wow    lol  Clarification: The DM, not you..




Ironically, the character concepts (minus the writing samples and selection of traits) were ones I've toyed with for a few months as potential NPCs...  So the concept and outline of background were there...  I submitted them both, one as primary and a second as a backup, tp twp different RTJs (obviously tailored to the specific game being played)...  The first, I really didn't expect to get in because I am currently DMing the same module for some friends (which I always disclose to potential DMs) and he got too many RTJ and, unfortunately for me, went with someone without prior/current knowledge of the adventure...  The other game, the one with the writing sample, is the one my mind is spinning on...  lol

And ironically, on that second game, he selected a guy that is currently a player in two games that I DM...  And, he's using the same character in that game as in one of my games...  lol   I don't begrudge him the spot in the game because he is a great guy and a good player...  Plus he's been trying to find games to join for quite some time...  I usually message him when I see a game posted in Players that he might like...   I didn't tell him about this one because I REALLY wanted to play it myself because I want to run it later when some of my current games conclude...   lol
This message was last edited by the player at 13:58, Sun 05 Feb 2023.

 1. I don't think I'd say its a requirement. As a player, and a player only, I've appreciated it.
2. DMs have periodically given me feedback on why I've not made the cut, and its never personally bothered me.  Yes, sometimes its because my character wasn't original enough, or other things.   Not sure if this has helped any, but here you go.

All input on the topic is good...  I'm trying to get a handle on how other DMs/GMs handle rejecting players as well as how it feels/is interpreted from the other side of the screen...

You are not wrong. But from the perspective of the GM, a personalized response to every failure is unrealistic. If you're responding to a friend? Sure, maybe. But some rando on the internet? As a GM, your time is better spent working out the kinks in the game, making the game better for those you have chosen.

My "you weren't selected" messages generally look something like:

Thank you for showing interest. Unfortunately, I am currently full up for players. If you're okay with it, I'd like to keep you in mind for when someone drops.

Edit: But in general, players are aware that there are so many spots in the game. If you, the player, are upset over a "thanks, but no thanks," then what's to happen when your PC suffers a setback?
This message was last edited by the player at 16:40, Sun 05 Feb 2023.

Trying to tie together how a DM lets people down (or how someone would prefer a little more detail on why) with how they would react to a "setback" is  reductio ad absurdum...  Additionally, you're putting words in my mouth...  I have never once said that I was upset about a "thanks, but no thanks" response... The entire topic, and my original request, was to find out how other DMs handle rejecting players as well as how other players have been rejected in the past and their thoughts on it...

That being said, I do feel that it is a slap in the face to require a potential player to submit a pretty much 95% complete character sheet (including complete backstory) along with, essentially, an essay and then just respond with "sorry, you weren't selected"... Even something as simple as adding your "If you're okay with it, I'd like to keep you in mind for when someone drops." or "I hope you consider submitting your character again if we ever need a replacement" would be kinder...

In my example, I did two complete characters (primary and backup) with a separate complete essay for each one and received a generic rejection without any idea of whether it was due to my character concepts, my writing sample(s), he found enough people before getting to my submission, mine was really good but someone else's was just a touch better...  Are my completed characters now NPCs for his game?

As you should be able to understand from this post, none of this is about being upset that I didn't get in the game... That is life...  It is only that, personally, I try to give a bit more feedback to those I reject as well as wondering how others handle rejecting/being rejected...
This message was last edited by the player at 18:10, Sun 05 Feb 2023.

Really? Because I've seen that kind of reaction. Perhaps you've just not been around RPOL long enough?

Nor did I say you did. That is a general commentary about players, not any particular individual. Hell, I don't know you from the next guy over. I doubt I've ever been in a game with you. In fact, I sincerely doubt we even play the same types of games.

Funny thing about conversations? They're two-way streets. You say something, someone responds. I gave my thoughts. Don't like it? Kick me out of the forum. Or ignore me. Or leave. TBH, I couldn't care which one of those happens. I thought we were here to discuss issues in GMing.

When you're GM, you're free to roll as you like. For me, I don't have the kind of time to dedicate to the niceties - to say nothing of the tact or interest in being politically correct. (I have to pretend to care all day long. This is my free time. I get to be my real self here. Like it or not, my real self is something of an asshole who isn't willing to pretend to give a damn about your "feel goods.") My job is to ST a game. Once I've determined you're not a good fit for my game, you're out of sight and out of mind. I couldn't care less whether you (and again, I'm talking "you, the player," not "you, LissaAzules") like it or not. I care about what my players think of my game, not some rando on the internet whose existence impacts me not at all.

Frankly, I think I'm being quite generous by telling players they're not accepted, but that I will keep them in mind for when players inevitably dropped. And I do. I've had players drop, and I'll call on those with concepts I liked. Maybe if you've never experienced that, it's just that your concepts aren't that good? I dunno. Like I said, you and I probably do not share much in the way of interests. (Please do note, however: this is not an encouragement for you to share your characters with me. I cannot emphasize enough how little I care. I'm only writing this because you've managed to sufficiently piss me off with your Dollar Store Latin that I feel the need to respond.)

Welcome to the real world, Lissa. That's how it works. You don't have to like it. I don't have to like it. But the world doesn't give a damn what you and I think about it. Lesson learned, perhaps. Or not. Again, neither I nor the world care if you've chosen to learn a lesson.

And you are free to do so. I don't see how that translates into "everyone should do what I do" (very American of you, though - you a Yank? Again, don't answer. The question is entirely rhetorical, and I do not care.) I have very few hours in the day. I work full time at two different jobs. I volunteer. I have bills to pay, papers to grade, English to teach, and a whole hell of a lot of people that I care about more than I will ever care about some random player who is, let's be honest, likely to drop my game at the first inconvenience.

See, thing is: you're the only person that matters in your life. And there are another 8-or-whatever billion people that think the exact same way. To them, though? To me? You're an NPC. You do not matter. You matter to your friends. I matter to mine. Tomorrow I'm heading out on vacation. I will not be checking back into this thread until I return - if at all - because I have a life outside of RPOL. I would advice you to get one of those, as well. Caring too much about this hobby is likely to result in some unpleasant things coming your way. It's not healthy.

So, you want to write dissertations for your character background? Fantastic. You want to write long "Dear John" letters to the people that don't get into your games? Fine. But don't expect the rest of the world to bow to what you think is "unfair," and don't accuse me of "reductio ad absurdum," because I've been here for long enough to know that anything you think is absurd has probably happened. I've had more people ghost on games than you can imagine. I've seen more games fail before the first IC post than you can imagine.

And, quite frankly, I've been where you are. I've made the mistakes you're making now. I'm giving you advice because I was there. But now? Take that advice. Leave it. Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

You're right, you are an asshole,...  and you are once again accusing me of saying/implying things I didn't... I never said everyone had to do what I do... I specifically stated how I do it and that I wanted opinions from others on how they do it... You started off the attacks against me with your first post and continued it above...

You are entitled to your opinion about the topic and about me, my origins, my nationality, whatever...  Quite frankly, I'm rather glad we don't share interests and therefore games because you do not have the temperment to be a player or DM/GM/ST that I would ever respect...  And if you speak/act this way irl, you are not a person I would respect...

So, to close off any further conversation with you... You would be doing me a great favor if you would refrain from responding to questions I have asked going forward... You would be doing the world a favor if you learned to be civil to others outside your work life...  However; do not bother to respond because, in your own words, you do not matter to me...

Enjoy your vacation...
This message was last edited by the player at 20:23, Sun 05 Feb 2023.

Woah! What is the deal here people. Why the name calling and attitude. A disagreement of opinion isn't a reason for being uncivilized. We are all GMs, feel free to express your opinions, but keep it civil.

Warning to everyone involved no need for personal attacks. If someone offers advice that you don't care for, ignore it. It's advice. You are free to take or leave advice.
This message had punctuation tweaked by the GM at 02:23, Mon 06 Feb 2023.

This conversation has gotten out of hand and will now be locked. If you wish to continue the discussion seek the new version of this thread. Any attempt to revive this disagreement will be in violation of being respectful to each other.