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00:14, 29th March 2024 (GMT+0)

Player Attrition.

Posted by AdvisorFor group 0
Barry
player, 20 posts
Sun 5 Nov 2017
at 12:53
  • msg #19

Re: Player Attrition

It could also be a popular game you're running (or you have a great pitch!)

I know some games are 'always open' and benefit from large casts.  I'd suggest if anyone is running anything like that I'd recommend using notices like 'new players always welcome' rather than 'new players needed' or 'we have openings for character types x, y and z'.  That suggests players are bailing (for a variety of reasons).  I have a couple of GM's who I would never sign up with again and is notable how often the same issues crop up with the same people more than once.
pdboddy
player, 18 posts
Sun 5 Nov 2017
at 15:10
  • msg #20

Re: Player Attrition

In reply to A Voice in the Dark (msg # 18):

Sometimes the popularity comes in that the DM has chosen a game that people have been eager to play.  Flavour of the month, and all that.

Sometimes it's due to the DM choosing a game that isn't a particular game.  Over on Roll20, there is a huuuuuge glut of D&D 5e games being run.  To the point of players posting ads for "anything but D&D". :P

If you are playing to run a game, but you've not yet decided upon what it is you want to do, use the search feature to see if there are games running for ones you want to do.  Also peruse through the "Wanted - GMs" to see if anyone in there has asked recently for a game that you'd be willing to run.

Choosing a game that you know people are looking for, or that there is a dearth of, might earn you a bunch of eager players wanting to try something that's not the flavour of the month.
Window Watcher
player=, 10 posts
Sun 5 Nov 2017
at 17:02
  • msg #21

Re: Player Attrition

If you’re starting a game, you may want to look around and see what other games of the genre are also running.
If there’s a lot of similar games, maybe consider a different genre. (The market has already been taken.)
Or, you can see what unique spin each of those games has, and make sure you go a different direction. (If one game is fantasy centered around dragons, maybe avoid dragons for yours.)
You can also note any weaknesses in the games, and try to cover them for yours. See where the bar is set and go above it.

Some games might have trouble drawing in players because the prospective audience is a bit niche.
For example, fantasy is a very broad and popular genre, so there’s a big pool of people to draw from.
If your game is based on a certain show or video game, especially a lesser known one, the audience would be smaller. (You could counter that said small audience would be more strongly drawn, but size might outweigh that.)

A similar issue would be trying to combine niches.
For example, you have your game based on a show, then set it in the apocalypse. You might be taking the already small audience and cutting it down to only the apocalypse fans among it.
Granted, depending how loosely you base the game on a show/whatever, you might be able to set up the game so that it draws in both fans of the show and fans of the apocalypse, without needing them to be a fan of both. Add the two rather than require both, if that makes sense (hard to word).

If it wasn't already said, I think most games draw in the most players when the game is just starting out.
Ike
player, 15 posts
Sun 5 Nov 2017
at 17:44
  • msg #22

Re: Player Attrition

That works if you're running a 'quickie' and you can adapt to market trends, but mostly when I run a game, I tend to plan out the setting, the backgrounds of the major NPCs, the primary events and foes that the PCs are likely to face, research the time period, etc, in a planning stage that typically lasts several months.

I'm not going to change my game at the last minute just because I see that games X and Y are currently running with a similar theme. But what I will do is see what is running and then postpone the start of my game for a month or two, and see if I can catch people just as they're starting to get bored with games X and Y...
Sir Swindle
player, 13 posts
Thu 5 Jan 2023
at 17:25
  • msg #23

Re: Player Attrition

To combat attrition I've considered going to the garbage Interest Check section and just putting out an open call for a group of real friends.

I think the majority of the problem is that we are playing a social game but I don't actually know any of the players so there is no real social obligation to not ruin Jim's game or drop and leave Sally hanging etc. It's made worse by the fact that the wat the site does characters I don't even know if the other players are someone I have played with before.

It's only after like 10 years on the site that I've gotten to the point where I can recognize the usual suspects in my particular niche of games. If I played d20 I would probably just never know who was around.



The most recent game I have been planning I wrote up a whole no fault ghosting policy just so people don't feel bad coming back and anyone who sticks it out knows that sometimes they are just going to have to post and that a few of the PC's are going to be left behind and that's ok.
Fugitive
player, 6 posts
Thu 5 Jan 2023
at 18:31
  • msg #24

Re: Player Attrition

Yeah, I mean, that's one of the big problems with RPOL/PBP.

The good news is that at least you have a selection of players for most games, it seems (depending on your reputation on the board and the system you are running).

You just have to try and plan for the eventuality that some players are going to drop.
Advisor
GM, 52 posts
Thu 5 Jan 2023
at 18:54
  • msg #25

Re: Player Attrition

I like that idea of getting a group who know each other already, it would probably be hard to do but not impossible.

Personally my expectation was to take on more players than would be my ideal with the expectation that some will drop. Like if I would like a party of 4 I'll take on 6. Then if they all stay ok 6 might not be my most enjoyable number but that's still 6 people who are loyal, and if a couple drop then hey you're down to your ideal number and the rest are sticking around.
Window Watcher
GM, 32 posts
Thu 5 Jan 2023
at 22:22
  • msg #26

Re: Player Attrition

Feeding the idea of forming a group of friends:
-You could post in your old games "Hey, I'm making a new game, if any of you want to join."
-Could reach out to previous players through rMail.
-Could search for games by GM name, using previous players or GM's you've enjoyed.

-With the GM's permission, could post in a game "Hey, I'm making..." Doubly so if the current game is finishing (or dying, or dead).

In addition to OOC, could make a Discord channel. Might be easier to stay in touch with people.
Sir Swindle
player, 14 posts
Thu 5 Jan 2023
at 22:33
  • msg #27

Player Attrition

Window Watcher:
In addition to OOC, could make a Discord channel. Might be easier to stay in touch with people.

Yes... I could make an entire separate community outside of this site. That's not a glowing recommendation for the site, features.
Advisor
GM, 53 posts
Thu 5 Jan 2023
at 23:18
  • msg #28

Player Attrition

In reply to Sir Swindle (msg # 27):

You're not wrong, but then again rpol is definitely better set up for RP games than discord so the two can be separate - discord for chatting and clarifying things and rpol for actual game.
Storyteller
player, 18 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 07:41
  • msg #29

Player Attrition

I've had decent luck with requiring players to provide their Discord ID in their RTJ. If they know you have a way to contact them outside RPOL they're less likely to apply knowing they're going to drop in advance and/or drop without warning (because you can just catch 'em on Discord).
pdboddy
GM, 45 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 12:24
  • msg #30

Player Attrition

In reply to Storyteller (msg # 29):

Be careful with that.  It easily leads to "Hey, I see you on Discord playing Counter Strike, and you've not posed your reply to the new scene I posted an hour ago.."

And well, if they are ignoring you on RPoL, they can ignore you on Discord also.  They can also set themselves to appear offline.

And some aren't comfortable handing out their socials to someone they don't know.
Advisor
GM, 55 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 13:01
  • msg #31

Player Attrition

If you are doing that I would suggest setting some ground rules. Like if the posting period is once a day I will only chase you on discord if you have been silent for 2 days. You could make a discord group rather than just asking for their ID that way everyone can talk in there instead of an ooc chat which might promote engagement.
Sir Swindle
player, 15 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 13:06
  • msg #32

Re: Player Attrition

Advisor:
If you are doing that I would suggest setting some ground rules. Like if the posting period is once a day I will only chase you on discord if you have been silent for 2 days. You could make a discord group rather than just asking for their ID that way everyone can talk in there instead of an ooc chat which might promote engagement.

I've been looking for a discord ping bot that can auto do that for an initiative list. If anyone has one.
pdboddy
GM, 46 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 13:51
  • msg #33

Re: Player Attrition

The player here named Ninthbit created an unofficial app which pings you when games on your list have new messages.  They might be able to inform on how to set that up for Discord, perhaps.  No harming asking, I think.
Storyteller
player, 19 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 14:50
  • msg #34

Re: Player Attrition

pdboddy:
Be careful with that.  It easily leads to "Hey, I see you on Discord playing Counter Strike, and you've not posed your reply to the new scene I posted an hour ago.."

And well, if they are ignoring you on RPoL, they can ignore you on Discord also.  They can also set themselves to appear offline.

And some aren't comfortable handing out their socials to someone they don't know.

True, but it makes ignoring you less likely. As for the threat of "they might see you on..." I doubt it very much. First off, I rarely turn Discord on, personally. Second, I don't tell them mine. And third, even when they inevitably find it out because I have to contact them, I am always listed as offline. I can respond to messages at my leisure.

To your last point, that is their choice. They don't have to hand out their socials - but I don't have to let them in my game. I don't charge money to join my games, but I do have requirements. I also don't let characters play Antediluvians in a vampire game. It's just one of the rules. *shrugs*

Advisor:
If you are doing that I would suggest setting some ground rules. Like if the posting period is once a day I will only chase you on discord if you have been silent for 2 days. You could make a discord group rather than just asking for their ID that way everyone can talk in there instead of an ooc chat which might promote engagement.

Meh, for me it takes a lot longer than that. I prefer daily posting, but it would take at least two weeks of radio silence - maybe more, depending on how the game is going - for me to reach out through Discord.

I'm not averse to a Discord group, except I am not on Discord all that frequently, and I'm not really familiar with it enough that I want yet another thing I have to keep up with. I'm old. For me, it's a high tech version of AIM.
Sir Swindle
player, 16 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 15:19
  • msg #35

Re: Player Attrition

pdboddy:
The player here named Ninthbit created an unofficial app which pings you when games on your list have new messages.  They might be able to inform on how to set that up for Discord, perhaps.  No harming asking, I think.

Very different things.

Discord already tells you that there are messages. I want a bot that @'s the next player in line when the player before him posts and then does it every couple days or whatever until he does post.
Storyteller
player, 20 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 15:26
  • msg #36

Re: Player Attrition

Sir Swindle:
I want a bot that @'s the next player in line when the player before him posts and then does it every couple days or whatever until he does post.

As a player? Or a Gamemaster? I could see that becoming very obnoxious very quickly. Also, there are people who - like me - don't really hang around on Discord all that much. It wouldn't be all that useful for them (assuming you're talking about a ST pinging them; if it's a player being pinged when other players post, that's much more tolerable, because the player in question is choosing to opt in).
Sir Swindle
player, 17 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 15:32
  • msg #37

Re: Player Attrition

The use case in question is for combats held on discord. It's better for a fast back and forth.
pdboddy
GM, 47 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 15:42
  • msg #38

Re: Player Attrition

Storyteller:
To your last point, that is their choice. They don't have to hand out their socials - but I don't have to let them in my game. I don't charge money to join my games, but I do have requirements. I also don't let characters play Antediluvians in a vampire game. It's just one of the rules. *shrugs*


Is it really fair to compare perhaps unreasonable in-game demands, or not charging money, to a person's privacy?

I mean, sure, it's your game, and you can let in whom you want, and deny others.  But requiring people to sign up for a 3rd party app, and to hand over their username for the purpose of potentially checking up on them, is on a different level than expecting them to know how to play the game, or be able to write decently, and follow the rules of standard character gen.
Advisor
GM, 56 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 15:54
  • msg #39

Re: Player Attrition

@Storyteller - like you say it's an option so it wouldn't be useful to you if you're never on discord, for me I just have it log me in when I turn the laptop on so I'm always online even if I only use it a little bit in the day unless I hear someone beeping me. You can always mute it except for if you're tagged with an @ but again if everyone decides they're ok with it and it works for them then it works for them.

@pdboddy - I get what you're saying because it's a requirement beyond the norm, however I disagree with your reluctance to it. No one is entitled to join your game, it's completely at the DM's discretion. If I wanted to I could very well say my requirements are for you to record a video of yourself saying your name and a phrase I give you before doing 10 jumping jacks. I probably wouldn't get any people actually applying but there's nothing stopping me from making that my barrier to entry. Everyone can choose what they are and are not comfortable with.
Storyteller
player, 21 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 16:26
  • msg #40

Re: Player Attrition

pdboddy:
... requiring people to sign up for a 3rd party app, and to hand over their username for the purpose of potentially checking up on them, is on a different level than expecting them to know how to play the game, or be able to write decently, and follow the rules of standard character gen.

Everything has a price. *shrugs* I don't care if my players know the game - I can teach that - and I don't care if they can write - I want them to have fun. But I also don't want to create a game, just for a bunch of people to ditch. This is not something I throw out there last minute, after character creation: when I post for a game, it is in the initial ad: I dont want to read porn, but I do want to be able to contact you on Discord. If you don't like it *shrugs* cool, there are tons of other games. My game isn't for you. I don't have any hard feelings about people unwilling to share their Discord handles.

quote:
Is it really fair to compare perhaps unreasonable in-game demands, or not charging money, to a person's privacy?

Yes? Welcome to the modern world? I get phone calls from people trying to sell my extended warranties on cars I haven't owned in ten years. This is nothing.
pdboddy
GM, 48 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 17:38
  • msg #41

Re: Player Attrition

Advisor:
@pdboddy - I get what you're saying because it's a requirement beyond the norm, however I disagree with your reluctance to it. No one is entitled to join your game, it's completely at the DM's discretion. If I wanted to I could very well say my requirements are for you to record a video of yourself saying your name and a phrase I give you before doing 10 jumping jacks. I probably wouldn't get any people actually applying but there's nothing stopping me from making that my barrier to entry. Everyone can choose what they are and are not comfortable with.


You're right.  I don't think you would get many takers.  And that's the point.

Such a limitation as having to give up your discord name, is pointless.  We're talking about player attrition.  Requiring people to have to use Discord won't screen out the people who may leave without warning.  It'll just reduce the number of people who apply, which is kind of counter to what you want to do.
Advisor
GM, 57 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 17:58
  • msg #42

Re: Player Attrition

I disagree, I think if someone is willing to give you some contact outside of rpol they are less likely to disappear on you. It's not because you can ping them on discord to get them to come back, it's because someone who will give more info is more likely to be serious about the game and also it helps generate a sense of investment in the person because they had to go the extra bit to get into the game.
Storyteller
player, 22 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2023
at 18:02
  • msg #43

Re: Player Attrition

Advisor:
It's not because you can ping them on discord to get them to come back, it's because someone who will give more info is more likely to be serious about the game and also it helps generate a sense of investment in the person because they had to go the extra bit to get into the game.

This exactly, yes. Thank you.
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