Reviewing the new Hellfrom Resource Management Guide and trying to determine if it can be a domain level style game.

The initial idea is that each player will be a major figure in the new settlement.
There are 6 possible Resource Types that a player can control:
Guild
Mercantile
Military
Nobility
Religious
Scholastic

Not sure yet if the players would only be cooperative or there would be some contention.
Maybe contention over Glory?

Also, how to overlay multiple Resources over a location?

The Players don't need a fully fleshed out character.
Just a character with an Edge that makes them leader material.
Further details can be added to a character as needed.

It looks to me that the best option is to have each player be neighbors.
There could be Seneschal as a second player for the same location but not sure how well that would work out.

I'm open to suggestions.

What are you looking for in a game that is not what basically all generic games do?

What I would like is to develop a specific location and drive the experience around its development.
Organic growth like happens in "Real Life" not some fabricated "Adventures" to farm experience points.

In reply to Oracle (msg # 4):

I assume you're opening a discussion here for the benefit of our new player(s)?

I'll start us off by saying that I have two interests here. Firstly I'm attempting to write my own rule set, so I'm mining any useful ideas, and secondly I'm helping to playtest this rule set (and the previous AER one), on a quid pro quo understanding.

I'm happy to enter a 3 or 4 way understanding, or simply take part in a discussion.

Consequently, playing the game is less important for me than discussing the rules. The Freelands game is just a background of examples for me, and I don't even mind if it comprises disjointed scenes, each of which tests an aspect of the rules.


What I'm looking for in a rule set, that I have not previously found, is:

* Speed of play, especially in PbP.

* Simplicity of turn resolution, particularly for the GM.

* Drastic reduction of 'beancounting' since this works against the above needs, and it's boring. Spreadsheets have no place in a RPG!

* Retain enough detail to create immersive play in domain building.

* Ease of record keeping, and reconciliation with a map.

* Seamless interaction between Domain Level play and Personal Level play, so that the characters matter to the strategy and the strategy matters to the characters.

* And my arch-nemesis - reconcile time flow so that Strategic Level map-painting players and Personal Level intrigue-weaving players are both happy with the pace.

And yes, I want a game to unfold naturally, the interplay between the levels forming the raison d'etre for war, peace, and adventure, and providing the character gains. XP should have a meaning within the game, and should form part of the background, rather than simply counting beans.

I've had a rather long day (My valintie's day was postponed a day so took place today, and I'll need some time to formulate a well-thought out answer, but I agree XP should never be Farmed, or even farm-able.  I am by no means a person to ask about system building or balance, as I tend to focus on what feels "Fun" rather than "balanced."

I suppose in short answer I'm looking for a game/system that puts equal focus on building a settlement and seeing it grow and develop as well as having major player character's act on an individual level and still Mean something, while it is reasonable and well, for the captain of the town guard to give out orders to a group of guardsmen and expect a result, there should be ample reason and situations where this is not the solution to everything.  Where his personal touch is required, or at least advised, and for more than just accounting and paperwork.

From what I can tell, so far, the Resource Management supplement is designed to tie a character to the setting.
In this case it is the Hellfrost setting.
I can provide most of what is needed to play in Hellfrost as it is included in the Player's Guide.

The Savage Worlds rule system allows a character to take the Rich and/or Very Rich Edge(s) but didn't give details of where this wealth came from or how it could be effected.
With the RM supplement the character can now have control over this wealth.
There are free Test Drive Rules for Savage Worlds if you don't know of them. Not critical for what we are doing at this point. Cheap if purchased.

Having a source of invested wealth naturally generates adventures as it needs to be managed and developed.

The time scale is where Anholt seems to have a preference.
Working at a "Summary" level to get results for each year and moving to the next as opposed to playing out the events through the year.

What I have yet to determine with this rule system is if the GM work is tedious when time is sped up for "Summary" level play.

===
The game Pendragon has a the Winter Season where the "Summary" level of play occurs and does some of the same things.
This allows "normal" daily play with "Summary" play at the end of each game year.
Pendragon is a generational game where it is important to have children, as you will eventually be using them, as your original character ages out of play.
I have looked at it before but the focus and rules of the rest of the system is not very popular.

I have a couple of rule sets I use on the Personal level that I'm reasonably happy with, hence I'm currently more interested in finding/creating rules for the Summary or Strategic level play.

However, I'm also interested in rules for personal intrigue (something I'm currently missing), and I'm interested in the way that the two levels of play link together, pace wise, so I'm not exclusively focused on domain building.

I've played a couple of 'dynastic' games, and I don't like them. For me, they're too far removed from the personal. Characters only last a few turns before they have to be pensioned off, and I don't get the same personal immersion in the game. I like to identify with a particular character.

Regarding Pendragon I was actually initially tentatively Interested in it, but i could never get a GM to agree to one important fluff change.  Well important to me.

You see, I don't have a problem with a character being removed from play, by most means, but my character's can never actually be allowed to Die.

Get to old to go on adventures, sure you can retire.  Get so mangled and beaten it would take litteral years to heal, and therefore be removed because by then the plot would be over, OR be so badly hurt your forced into retirement, fine.  But literal actual death is something I cannot actually allow to happen to my characters.  They have to much of Myself in them for me to condone it.  Mechanically, I don't mind having to reroll or some such as it's called, it's just a matter of how it is explained.

And for some reason no GM seemed to understand this "Fluff explination" part was my sticking point, so I gave up on the system.

I'm not quite so adamant regarding character death, depending on the character, but with a dynastic game there's no way you can avoid it. Once your game has been running for 100 years, that original 20-year-old character is dead, like it or not.

As a GM, I would be quite happy to have a character retire rather than die if there were a reasonable way to explain it - particularly if it were important to a player - but once the passage of time makes it impossible...

The best way is to avoid dynastic games. Play games that cover shorter lengths of time, so your characters can live 'forever'.

Alex, I can understand the reluctance of a GM in having what could be considered a "No Risk" type of game.

Savage Worlds system deals with this by providing "Bennies" that you can use to cause re-rolls.

There is also the Incapacitated / Injury Table that provides options besides "DEAD".
(Bennies can be used)
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws...es/SWD_GM_Tables.pdf

Using that concept I can easily see there being a "Golden Bennie" used to avoid "Certain Death".
The modern take on Plup has heroes that "never die".

===
Anholt, when you say "rules for personal intrigue" do you mean between players or NPCs?

I assume NPCs, and thought that a NPC having their own goals and willingness to pursue them was enough to generate intrigue.

Are you thinking of something more on the lines of Apocalypse World?
Or maybe the escalation mechanic in Dogs in the Vineyard?

===
In the Hellfrost setting using the RM2 supplement, the character with the Rich Edge should use "officials".
The RICH Player character will not have the best Stats in everything needed to run a Resource.
The Officials can be other Player characters.
Being Players, they will have their own agendas, which generates intrigue.

Was that what you meant or just Reaction Roll responses?

I've had great luck using the Mythic GM Emulator engine when I need reasonable rolls but not total randomness.
http://www.pbegames.com/mythic/
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:37, Sat 17 Feb 2018.

The first edition of the Hellfrost Resource Management supplement can be found here:
https://rpg.rem.uz/Savage%20Wo...rce%20Management.pdf

I'm using the 2nd Edition with is more detailed.

The events at Stone Horseshoe have been updated for the completion of the first year.

Both PCs and NPCs.
Intrigue between NPCs can be relatively straightforward, since the GM is at least one of the parties involved, but I also want a mechanic that enables intrigue to be carried out between PCs. Pure Freeform and pure Mechanics both have disadvantages.

eg. Freeform:
My PC wants to seduce your PC.
He’s got no chance.
But he’s very persuasive.
He’ll never be persuasive enough.
etc, etc, ad nauseum

Mechanical:
My PC wants to seduce your PC.
<rolls dice>
2D6 for 12. Yes!! your PC is my PC's fruit-puppet until I say otherwise.

Seduction always makes for an evocative example, but there are many other types of intrigue with similar stakes: court trials, peace negotiations, toadying...

I’ve seen a number of systems that try to deal with this, using voting systems, bidding systems, etc, along with cards or dice, but I haven’t found that elusive ‘Goldilocks Formula’ yet - something real enough to allow for the unexpected or undesirable to happen, yet fair enough to be acceptable to players whose characters may be influenced by someone else’s intrigues.

I don’t want a situation in my game where Players walk from the game because an Intrigue outcome is unacceptable to them, yet I don’t want a situation where Intrigue is bland and ineffectual. It must matter, but not matter too much. Some of this is about choosing the right players, but some is about choosing the right rules.

Chance doesn’t seem to be acceptable to most players. People want to feel that they had some influence over the outcome, that they were able to ‘do their best’ for their character in some tangible way, that they were able to ‘put up a good fight’ even if the final result went against them, and often, just rolling dice and adding a few modifiers doesn’t feel like they had any real choice over what happened to their character, even though it works for combat. Strangely (or not), many players can accept character death more readily than character submission, and intrigue can create more arguments than combat.

Using Alex's example, perhaps an Intrigue, carried out by the Captain of the Guard, would have a greater effect than issuing orders to his men. Mooks would simply roll dice for a standard outcome, but if the Captain took a personal hand in matters, something far more interesting could arise.

However, I’m trying not to hog this conversation with too much input about what I'm seeking. Alex put out a query and joined us here to seek information that would benefit her and her friend Prismwind. How can we help you, Alex? What are you looking for? What game systems have you tried, apart from Pendragon? What advantages and disadvantages have you found?

I'll have to go back and review but I think the escalation mechanic from Dogs in the Vineyard may be a good fit.

Hopefully, we'll see what interests Alex.

May want to revive this using the new "Stonetop" system.
https://www.kickstarter.com/pr...dYmC7hoT4UrTUoYAJ6l4