RTJ and Character Creation.   Posted by NowhereMan.Group: 0
NowhereMan
 GM, 9 posts
 Project Director
Thu 3 May 2018
at 04:04
RTJ and Character Creation
The selection process for the second team is mostly complete, but I am waiting on more information from certain applicants. No notifications have gone out yet, selections or rejections, so don't be disheartened by not having something in your inbox.

Everyone who has applied will get a notification on whether or not they have been accepted.
Martin Samuels
 player, 1 post
Thu 3 May 2018
at 16:08
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
NowhereMan:
Ignore both requirements. Arcane Backgrounds are disallowed for this game. The Weird Science skill is an "arcane skill" functionally identical to the Spellcasting and Faith skills required to cast the spells associated with the Arcane Background (Magic) and Arcane Background (Miracles) Edges.


Alright so then I'll have another Edge or another Stat point to give the science geek. That will come in handy, no doubt.

Again, if someone comes along who wants to take over or remake him for personal use, just let me know.

Lastly, is there a cut-n-paste equipment list handy? We're basically all given the same A kit and B bag like in the first iteration of the game [with some custom choices of sidearms and skill-based gear], right?
NowhereMan
 GM, 10 posts
 Project Director
Thu 3 May 2018
at 16:35
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
I believe this is what you're referring to.
NowhereMan
 GM, 11 posts
 Project Director
Sat 5 May 2018
at 07:13
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
Characters for both teams have been selected. I believe everyone received a private message letting them know the result of their RTJ, but just in case I missed someone, thank you to all of you that requested to join this game.
Jeremy Holmes
 player, 2 posts
Sat 5 May 2018
at 13:37
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
NowhereMan:
<a href="http://wiki.rpol.net/?id=71608/Morrow%20Project%20Standard%20Kit">I believe this is what you're referring to.</a>


Right, but there was also a separate listing of weapon/loadout options. Either take (for instance) a 1911 or a .45, either take an MP5 or an M4, and so on. I'll see what I can find after work tonight.
Kyunga Barret
 player, 1 post
 JR-SV2
 Security
Sat 5 May 2018
at 20:19
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
Those loads have varied over the years. Even 4th edition doesn't include the Glocks or M24s IIRC. I do know the 4th edition Sniper load out is a Browining Hi Power, M21, 3 frag grenades and 3 Willie Petes.
NowhereMan
 GM, 12 posts
 Project Director
Sat 5 May 2018
at 20:31
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
I've never published a set of pre-selected loadouts here, but the Morrow Project Core Rulebook has some. The 4th Edition has ones that would be in line with our available options, but feel free to customize.
Kyunga Barret
 player, 3 posts
 JR-SV2
 Security
Mon 7 May 2018
at 05:41
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
I've got a fairly complete character sheet for Kyunga but I have one question:

Currently she has two d8 Knowledge skills, one (Environmental Science) and one (Profession). Is that a useful way to engage with the mechanics to achieve the Recon Team's mission?

Her military MOS's were Forward Observer and Water Purification and her education is in Environmental Science (BS) and Environmental Hydrology (MS). My thought was, "If I were the Council of Tomorrow and I was building a recon team to figure out what the situation was after the apocalypse and map a course for reconstruction, what would I want to know and what would be the most crucial initial infrastructure?"

Clean water and a clear understanding of what natural resources are available,and how to get them are fundamental ingredients. Kyunga's background, I think, creates a skill set that can provide both things, but what skill descriptors do that in a mechanically useful way?

It's entirely possible that the (Profession) skill could be spread out into larger dice in Notice and Repair, moved to Craft (Water Purification) or something else entirely.

What do the other Recon Team members think about how to model that kind of information gathering in game terms?
Alex Harrison
 player, 1 post
 Team Quartermaster
 Economics/Commerce Spec
Mon 7 May 2018
at 07:47
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
In reply to Kyunga Barret (msg # 14):

Hmmm. That's an astute question.  Let me grab my copy of the Savage Worlds rulebook and check the game mechanic of the Profession skillset...

*CRUNCH*

Oh, yeah, it's a PDF. Right then...

*tappity-tappity-tappity-tappity*

Hmmm. Okay, SW has no Profession SKILL, as such, so they have no mechanism for dealing with us slackers "working" in the game ^_^

But you said you had a "Knowledge: Profession" skill, right?  That would be...specific knowledge about "being professional"?  When you got this for your character, what was your thinking, that this would represent the characters background IN some profession, like "Knowledge: Commercial Water Quality Technician"?

But here's an idea that came to me when I dropped my hard cider - you say you paid points for 2 Knowledge skills both a d8 - one is Knowledge: Environmental Science and the other is Knowledge: Profession. Correct so far, right?

(Hey, I'm long-winded, but it's usually worth it. If for no other reason, than I fall down a lot ^_^)

Right, so, Savage Worlds has these things called Edges. You have to meet the pre requisites, but these Edges usually give you some benefit for making use of the Edge's "conceptual theme".  There are a number of different types of Edges - Combat Edges, Social Edges, Leadership Edges, and Professional Edges...eh, eh? Professional...?

There is this one Professional Edge that you already have the prerequisites to - 2 skills at d8 or higher and your Rank is Novice or higher (we're all starting at Rank Seasoned).

So, anyways, the info on Professional Edges, straight from the book...
-------------------------------------------------------------
Professional Edges
Professional Edges are very special abilities that reflect
many years of practicing a particular trade. In some cases
they may also represent special blessings from higher powers
as well.
These Edges help you create a character who is far more
competent in his chosen field than most others. If you want to
make a very effective Mad Scientist, for example, you could
combine the Arcane Background (Weird Science) with the
Gadgeteer and Mr. Fix It Edges.
Professional Edges represent many years of training so
their Requirements are quite high. Players may purchase
Professional Edges after character creation, but should
usually lead up to it story-wise by practicing the affected trade
during down-time or in between adventures. The time spent
acquiring one of these abilities is subjective and up to the
Game Master, but makes the game much more believable if
a little narrative time is spent training.
>>Stacking: Bonuses to the same Trait from different
Professional Edges do not stack. If you make a hero with both
the Woodsman and the Thief Edges, for example, he gains
+2 to his Stealth skill, not +4.
----------------------------------------------------------------

The Professional Edge that lept out at me for you, based on what you mentioned about a military past, being an FO and Water Treatment Specialist and likely having a degree in Environmental Science, I just thought that the Scholar Edge sounded appealing.

Again, straight from the book....
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Scholar
Requirements: Novice rank, d8+ in affected skills
Learned professors, devoted students, and amateur
enthusiasts spend months of their lives studying particular
subjects. They become experts in these fields, and rarely
fail to answer questions in their particular area of expertise.
Benefit: Pick any two Knowledge skills the Scholar has a d8 or
better in. Add +2 to your total whenever these skills are used.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, yes, I admit, this is an Edge, and you gotta either use an Advance or pick up 2 points of Hindrance to get it - and you may have already spent all that, already.  But this was my thinking for a Scholar specific to YOU.

Change the "Knowledge: Profession" to "Knowledge: [Branch of Service you served in] Wilderness Survival".  This reflects skills you gained as an FO as well as just recreational camping and hiking, working in wilderness areas, etc.

The Knowledge: Environmental Science is the second skill you tie to this Edge.

Between the BS and the Military Grade Wilderness skills there is nothing an no place you can't get to study an environmental issue.  With this Edge, built this way, you would be an Environmental Field Researcher.  Admittedly, you tend to focus more on issues of water - water courses, contamination, aquifers, erosion, etc. - but the BS in Environmental Science crosses over into other disciplines, yes?  You get some biology, you analyze plants, note animal and insect migrations and infestations, determine land usage and management.

You , sir, would be an Environmentalist.  And you'd only need to change the name of a Knowledge skill. Maybe.

But until then, you're the assistant Cook. Get to washing them dishes ^_^
NowhereMan
 GM, 15 posts
 Project Director
Mon 7 May 2018
at 09:06
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
Knowledge skills can pretty much encompass whatever you want them to, so long as they're not too broad. No Knowledge (All) for you.

Knowledge (Profession) would be reasonable since we've established Kyunga's background occupation. However, Savage Worlds also has a mechanic called Common Knowledge, which allows a character who would reasonably know something to make an untrained Knowledge roll at d6 instead of d4-2. For instance, a dentist would be able to make such a roll to remember specific details about oral health, while a veterinarian might make such rolls to recall the dietary requirements of a pregnant pig.

For Kyunga, that would encompass hydrology and sanitation, as well as knowledge related to her time in the USMC. It would be slightly inferior to your Knowledge (Environmental Science) at d8, but would not require investment of skill points.
Kyunga Barret
 player, 6 posts
 JR-SV2
 Security
Mon 7 May 2018
at 15:40
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
In reply to NowhereMan (msg # 16):

Given the Common Knowledge rule does it make more sense to move the three dice from Knowledge (Profession) around? Leave (Environmental Science) d8 in place to cover the science portion of her education. Take Craft (Water Sanitation) at d6 to model the actual work of constructing and operating water purification and distribution systems. And use the last die to bump Notice or Repair by a die type to a d8 in either case? With Notice at d8 and the Alertness Edge, Kyunga would be an excellent Scout. Repair at d8 would be equally useful.

Taking the Scholar or Professional Edge would make the (Profession) skill more mechanically useful, but it does little to identify what that skill is and how to engage it mechanically in the game. I feel like taking Knowledge: USMC Wilderness Survival is a dishonest way to avoid paying for Survival, Notice and Tracking (which I have taken at d6, d6 and d4 any way).
Martin Samuels
 player, 2 posts
Mon 7 May 2018
at 19:31
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
Marty definitely took Gadgeteer as his background has him working for a robotics company before his recruitment & the Big Freeze. I hadn't thought about Profession but that might be a smooth use for his tinkering ways.
Kyunga Barret
 player, 7 posts
 JR-SV2
 Security
Mon 7 May 2018
at 19:43
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
There are certainly great uses for the Professional Edge and I COULD make use of it. I'd have to rework my other Edges - Alertness, Marksman and Combat Reflexes. For Martin it fit the concept and spirit better than it did Kyunga.

Without seeing the rest of the character, Profession (Robotics) might be a great way to frame Martin.
NowhereMan
 GM, 17 posts
 Project Director
Mon 7 May 2018
at 22:47
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
quote:
I feel like taking Knowledge: USMC Wilderness Survival is a dishonest way to avoid paying for Survival, Notice and Tracking (which I have taken at d6, d6 and d4 any way).


I see where the concern lies here, but a Knowledge skill would not overlap an otherwise established skill. USMC Wilderness Survival would possibly give you a few military-specific ideas for use with the Survival or Tracking skills, but those skills would still be required for their particular roles. Overall, USMC Wilderness Survival wouldn't be a great choice because of how limited it would be because of that.
Alex Harrison
 player, 2 posts
 Team Quartermaster
 Economics/Commerce Spec
Tue 8 May 2018
at 02:25
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
In reply to NowhereMan (msg # 20):

Right, right.  Knowledge skills represent a broader base of knowledge; more of the book-learnin stuff than the hands on. So while Knowledge: USMC Wilderness Survival would let you be aware of making a solar still in the desert, the Survival Skill gives you the actual practical knowledge in actually doing it AND the various problems you might encounter while doing it.  Knowledge Skills are less "hands on" than "regular" skills.  Not completely "hands off", of course, but definitely more theoretical.
Kyunga Barret
 player, 8 posts
 JR-SV2
 Security
Tue 8 May 2018
at 03:03
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
My solution is to use the Common Knowledge skill to represent the broader set of information associated with her training and education. The three dice that had been in Knowledge(Profession) are redistributed to Craft (Water Systems) at d6 and an extra die in Notice to take it to d8.

I've updated my character sheet to reflect this. I think I'm ready to come out of the freezer.
NowhereMan
 GM, 18 posts
 Project Director
Tue 8 May 2018
at 03:55
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
In reply to Alex Harrison (msg # 21):

That's not necessarily true, but rather depends on the specific "Knowledge" skill. Knowledge is a catch-all "skill" which covers any skill that isn't covered by one of the others listed. This includes everything from academic knowledges like Theoretical Physics to much more hands-on skills like Demolitions.
Claude Graham
 player, 1 post
 Survival Expert
Tue 8 May 2018
at 06:34
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
I've got my Survival at a d10, to indicate a lot of hands-on experience in the field. I assumed Knowledge to be for more specific fields than those covered by other skills, like my knowledge of botany.
Roana McCullough
 player, 4 posts
 JR-SV2
 Technician
Fri 11 May 2018
at 23:48
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
Just as a point of interest... under Character Generation, you should mention that 'Seasoned' means 20xp... the minimum to be Seasoned. Otherwise, players could think that 25, 30 and 35xp might be valid (all are part of Seasoned).


Also, have you considered Everyman Skills or Morrow Project Training Skills?

On the former, there might be things that everyone can do, like Drive. And you could then get a Quirk point by saying that your character can't.

For Morrow Project, there seems like there would be certain things that everyone is trained to do. Climbing, Fighting, Notice, Shooting and Survival seem like logical areas of training.
Claude Graham
 player, 2 posts
 Survival Expert
Sat 12 May 2018
at 05:53
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
Roana McCullough:
For Morrow Project, there seems like there would be certain things that everyone is trained to do. Climbing, Fighting, Notice, Shooting and Survival seem like logical areas of training.

Isn't that why we all start with fighting and shooting?

Nowhereman:
All characters start with a d4 in Fighting and Shooting and a d6 in a Knowledge skill relevant to their educational background.

NowhereMan
 GM, 20 posts
 Project Director
Sat 12 May 2018
at 06:28
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
Correct, Claude.

In every instance where a character starts at a rank higher than novice that I have seen in any published source, it means the minimum amount of XP for that rank.

And having a quirk where your character does not have those skills would invalidate them from assignment to a team due to obvious incompetence.
Jeremy Holmes
 player, 4 posts
Sat 12 May 2018
at 14:50
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
NowhereMan:
And having a quirk where your character does not have those skills would invalidate them from assignment to a team due to obvious incompetence.



Meaning they've either been assigned to a leadership role or they work in the intelligence field. :P
Roana McCullough
 player, 5 posts
 JR-SV2
 Technician
Sat 12 May 2018
at 15:53
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
So, okay, I overlooked those freebie skills. The trouble with bouncing between two sources.

As for the XP issue, yes, I knew that rule (minimum), but that's not the only rule that comes into play. I've seen rules that said 'halfway to the next level'. Besides, it not about the game, but about the GM. Maybe the GM wanted to give PCs an extra Advance. He could just as easily have said 25xp.

Now it doesn't seem like this is a game that would appeal to munchkins who notoriously abuse the rules every chance they get, but the fact that I wasn't sure (it's a new rules set for me) means it should have been explained.

I'm just saying.

I don't see that choosing to take a Quirk for a lack of a skill invalidates them. First of all, there are exceptions to every rule. There's no reason to think that someone who was otherwise qualified wouldn't have been given a waiver to join the team. And how many would have done that anyway? In any case, I was talking about more Everyman or Morrow Project skills in the first place. With just the three, that wouldn't make any sense.

It was just an idea. No big deal.
NowhereMan
 GM, 23 posts
 Project Director
Sun 13 May 2018
at 10:16
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
quote:
As for the XP issue, yes, I knew that rule (minimum), but that's not the only rule that comes into play. I've seen rules that said 'halfway to the next level'. Besides, it not about the game, but about the GM. Maybe the GM wanted to give PCs an extra Advance. He could just as easily have said 25xp.


I think it's fair to assume that if that was the case, which it most certainly could be - and is, in the case of certain members of V13 - that most halfway decent GMs would explicitly state it. Either way, for clarity's sake, I do mean minimum XP for Seasoned rank.

quote:
I don't see that choosing to take a Quirk for a lack of a skill invalidates them.


I was speaking too generally thanks to being on mobile. I have difficulty responding via mobile, so I usually include the bare minimum to get my point across.

Exceptions could be made, but they would have resulted in the member in-question being assigned to a non-Recon team, likely either a Science or Specialty team, such as Agriculture. Recon teams are held to a higher standard than other teams, because they're usually expected to function entirely on their own, whereas Science teams are usually expected to have a handful of support units in the form of Recon and MARS teams.

quote:
In any case, I was talking about more Everyman or Morrow Project skills in the first place. With just the three, that wouldn't make any sense.


In the case of such skills, such as Boating/Driving, the Project trains teams on all vehicles available to their team and those of any supporting teams. You are assumed to be basically competent in the piloting of any vehicle the Morrow Project supplies, and can operate them without penalty. The Boating/Driving skills would only come into play in riskier tasks.

For instance, your character would know how to pilot a V-150 or XR-311 well enough to get around regardless of your investment in the Drive skill, but performing combat maneuvers would require rolling.
NowhereMan
 GM, 24 posts
 Project Director
Mon 14 May 2018
at 06:15
Re: RTJ and Character Creation
Small change to the Character Creation wiki page: Added a note about not having to purchase starting gear.

For those of you who aren't yet aware, the Morrow Project will issue all of your gear other than what's in your personal effects satchel. The satchel is for exactly that - personal effects - and Project members are discouraged from using it to bring along "utility" or trade items. It is intended as a way to keep team members grounded in the post-apocalypse, not as a secondary means of outfitting themselves.