In reply to Totsu (msg # 33):

I was babysitting Toda while the rest of you were investing. Has anyone shared any of the information you have learned with Totsu?  Any other suspicions?  What else do we expect to find in this house?
What do we know about spirits?
Will we be able to see them?
Can we fight them with standard weapons sand attacks?
Can these spirits possess us?  How will we know?
How many other people are in this house?
Do we suspect any others of being possessed?

We transitioned from the Inn to the house quickly. I would have asked for updates on the walk to the house.


If not my character would have to start asking questions before we proceed further
This message was last edited by the player at 22:55, Fri 23 Nov 2018.

In reply to Totsu (msg # 34):

All that was said was that there was spiritual energy at the house, Which is why we are investigating. We don't know (or it was not said) that there are spirits in the house. As we walked up neither the priest or the mage was able to see anything from a distance. So I think we are all on the same page there.

If anyone else wants to add to it they can in case I missed something. You would probably have to ask questions if you felt there was something more going on.

In reply to Hiro-matsu (msg # 35):

I intend to look again astrally when done questioning Goshen.

Rich, see posts 174 and 180 in the main thread.
Takeshi saw some spiritual energy, we do not know its source or any other information about it. We don't know if it is good or bad or possessing anybody.


What else do we expect to find in this house? We do not know
What do we know about spirits? Nothing
Will we be able to see them? I think only Takeshi will be able to see whatever is giving off the spiritual energy when he looks astrally.
Can we fight them with standard weapons sand attacks? I don't think so.
Can these spirits possess us?  How will we know? We don't know.
How many other people are in this house? It is assumed just Badu
Do we suspect any others of being possessed? No

We know very little about the spiritual energy.

Note: Takeshi said that Goshen may be possessed so that we can take charge of him. He may or may not be possessed, we do not yet know. I decided to cast a truth spell first, when that is done I will look astrally.

In reply to Takeshi Oshiro (msg # 37):

Thanks for responding.
I did read both of those looking for how we thought goshen was a ninja and why we suspected he was possessed. There were never any specifics that stated this. I knew there was a ninja involved and poison was found but I did not see any mention of us thinking it was goshen.
I also knew about the yakuza being involved and wanting to maintain their interest.
If we suspected goshen, I would have suggested getting him outside the house and then grab him to find out what he knows.

If you are using the possessed story so you could cast the truth spell on him that is fine but it would be helpful to know this.

It would also be helpful if there were any plans discussed among any individuals as to anything we are trying to discover in here.
All Totsu knows is that there is a spiritual energy in this house and it may be affecting Badu.  He also knows nothing about spiritual energy or what this implies. It was stated that we don’t even know if it is good or bad energy.
If that is all we know then that is fine, we need to investigate further, but if we know more it would be nice if this was shared.

I’m just looking for more justification to barge into probably the most important person in towns house and possibly insult him based on limited information which could seriously screw up this whole marriage deal if we are wrong.

In reply to Totsu (msg # 38):

Totsu, two things:

First, nobody is planning things in private. Some of the pcs are improvising right now and some others are rolling with it to see what happens. You know as much as everyone, nothing has been held back. You ARE barging into the an important persons home. Some PCs are just guessing that this won’t get them in trouble because of what they might find inside.

Second, if you’re not willing to barge in on the guess that doing the opposite of what the ninja is trying to do, that’s fine. Have your character take actions he normally would in that situation.

I guess what I’m saying is play your guy with the knowledge he has for the situation at hand.  You have been correct about the situation so far.  The question is only, do you want to improvise with the others, trust that it works out, or do you want to not be a part of this B&E and say something, or not take part, or even try to stop them.

In reply to Chiisai Tori (msg # 39):

Ok thanks for the clarification

Totsu, I think you missed post 228 in the main thread.

In reply to Chiisai Tori (msg # 41):
FYI
Everyone keeps making comments about my size. I’m basically bruce Lee. 5’ 7” 157 lbs and wearing loose fitting clothes. Underneath I am ripped. All muscle. 31 strength.

Totsu grapple updated with Hiro ac and defense

If Hiro-matsu was an NPC, Rich would be PISSED at this point.

In reply to Chiisai Tori (msg # 44):

I should have stayed with Goshen. At least I could have pounded him.
Well at least I haven’t hurt anyone yet.  If Hiro was the enemy I would be very annoyed right now.  Just throw me already and be done with it.

In reply to Totsu (msg # 45):

Aaaahhhhh!
I’m supposed to be pounding on Badu not my own people!!!!!

While there is some clean up, possibly a contract and wedding to coordinate, and wounded to tend to (thanks a lot Totsu!), we are approaching the close of our starting adventure.

Now that we've played a little, I'm giving time for everyone to revisit their characters before the adventure completes and before handing out ON and EXPs.  You may change ANYTHING, including profession, except your initial rolls for birth caste.  If you have questions, just let me know.  I'll try to keep the rules changes updated in the rules post (and maybe organize it a bit better).

Also note that this game is more subjective than most.  The rules are scant, sometimes confusing, sometimes non-sensical, and sometimes contradictory.  The DM has more decisions to make for things like being thrown through walls and such.  Understand that this game is not as much about hard and fast rules as others and try to consider it the charm of the game rather than an annoyance.  I will continue to try to balance the rules as they are strictly written, with game balance, and with vague realism.  Probably in that order.

I’ll walk people through the training time. Just let me know what you want to learn and I’ll see if someone is around willing to teach you.

Note:  Ayare and Hiro-matsu will not be around during this downtime.

Got some bad news.

After some thought, I'm going to rule something against Arashi and Totsu.  I want to do it now, since I'm allowing adjustments of characters at this point.

Unarmed Combat is defined differently than Weapon Combat in this game.  Because of this, and more importantly because of game balance after I thought long and hard about, I have clarification of the Damage Bonus rule:

Unarmed strikes to not enjoy the Damage Bonus for weapons.  The damage increase due to strength is already embedded in the base damage based on strength.

Therefore, a person with a 31 strength hitting with a Katana, and one hitting with unarmed are:

Katana would be 1d6+2 for Katana, +3 for Damage Bonus = 1d6+5
Unarmed would be 1d10 for fists, possibly +2 or +3 for Yawara or Shuko =  1d10+2.

Both attacks do about 9 damage on average.  A Budoka adds his level which offsets the likelihood of the bushi having a Good or Superior weapon eventually.

The Katana can Thrust special attack and range, but Atemi allows 2nd striking (which is amazing if flanking or back-attacking).

This all seems balanced to me, so that's my ruling.

Adjust characters if you desire.  Sorry about the late, but not too late, ruling.

In reply to Chiisai Tori (msg # 49):

Yawara specifically says it adds +2 to the effect for unarmed combat. I'd say that is not damage. but your call.

I think it says damage for atemi and effect for jujitsu.

In reply to Chiisai Tori (msg # 51):

Almost like you read the rules dang you.

Yawara The yawara is a small wooden dumbbell-shaped object used to enhance the effects of certain unarmed combat techniques. When used with Atemi-waza, it adds 2 points of Subdual damage to what is otherwise done. When used with a Jujutsu Hold, it increases the user's Effect Number by 2
This message was last edited by the player at 23:10, Fri 07 Dec 2018.

In reply to Chiisai Tori (msg # 51):

That is way too much of difference for me. I would have to switch to a bushi if you do this.
At least for the bows rated for damage you went up an extra die.
I do agree that at lower levels the Budoka definitely seems to have an advantage over bushi in damage done but it seems like the game is set up to even this out with better okudens special abilities, better Ki powers and better quality swords. Plus if you look at the bigger picture the Bushi have more skills to start with way more honor and more money to get better armor.  They also get the easiest learning rate so they make it easier to increase your skills.  Plus Bushi will always have the advantage over Budoka in ranged combat. Plus I’m guessing it is easier to find master to train you in swords and bushi type skills then the Bodoka skills.  I think if you look at the overall picture you will see all kinds of benefits for Bushi over Budoka to offset that they could do more damage under the right circumstances.
If I’m a bushi and I see someone with no swords out in combat the first thing I would do is attack him at very long range. Once he is engaged he cannot move more than 1 yard so this immediately takes away him using his first along with any gauntlets or yaraw. It would force him to use his feet and even if he moves forward one he is still at -1 to hit. If the Budoka already had his primary action and then I move in I have a full turn to slice him apart and he can’t even touch me.  All those damage bonuses you were talking about are nothing if you use a little strategy.  I just gave away my biggest weakness as a Budoka so if you leave the rules the same and I’m still a Budoka then no fair using my strategy on me.

If after looking at the big picture and seeing that bushi are given the advantage over the Budoka in all those other areas is not enough to convince you that it appears the game actually is balancing out the additional damage provided to a Budoka then I would recommend a much less drastic change. If you are so concerned about the damage Die then what about leaving the punch standard at a d6. do But make this for a 10 to 14 strength and then add or subtract a point for every range above or below this level. you have a 10 strength. Then you could subtract a point.

Basically I understand your reasoning and see the difference now but I think your proposal shifts the balance too far that the Bushi will now be a better fighter at all levels and the difference will become even greater as he gains levels and improved weapons. If this is what you want then I think you have accomplished this.  Plus the Bushi will be more rounded and have more benefits outside of combat.

I beg you to go back and reconsider this change and what I said. I’m fairly certain if you make your proposed change and I stayed Budoka you would see this change shifts the balance more than you wanted, but unfortunately I won’t be a budoka for you too easily see this.
It’s a shame I really wanted to be a budoka. He is a much more limited character than a Bushi but my goal was to do one thing. Do as much damage as possible to opponents in battle.  I didn’t care about having higher status and more honor or any of the other benefits that come along with being a Bushi so the Budoka fit perfectly what I wanted out of my character.
Unfortunately with your proposed rule change the bushi would be a far better fighter, so much better that I would have to switch over.

Remember when we created my character The philosophy was hit them hard with everything you have and hope it was enough so they can’t hit back.
my character was Taylor made to maximize this philosophy and to being the best possible but kicker at first level so the advantage I have now is magnified.   Also because of this he has serious weakness in many other areas, which was obvious against the spirit attack.

In reply to Hiro-matsu (msg # 52):

Hiro should be using the razor claw weapon if he has Atemi Waza. It is +3 to damage and you can fill it with poison.

i disagree with most of your points. I’m surprised you’re describing your budoka as helpless at range when his bow beat Toda and Arashi in competition and did more damage.

And again, with our first fight in he bar, you were the best fighter despite two samurai being there.

And again with the final fight, despite Hiros taking in two of you, you still ended up doing the most damage.  Although Arashi got there late.

I do look at the big picture and have been playing this game awhile. Bushi, the supposed center of the campaign, tend to be the worst fighters. It is a common theme. They are driven toward bow and sword, with no grapple, entangle, throws, trips, or any decent special abilities.  They can’t even keep budoka at range due to budoka ki powers.  And to top it off, they do the least damage.

I’m tempted to keep the rule change just so you make one and realize how limited you immediately become. Arashi, when retooling his character, bumped up strength, got a Shuko, and took Atemi, even though it’s not bonus for him, because it is so powerful. And he doesn’t even get the +1 per level you get.

That said, I’ll retract the ruling.  The one thing that Bushi get that you don’t  get is social power. Access, information, favors, and being treated as elite. And in this game, while they might not be the best fighters, it does make them powerful in other ways.

Also, magic items are more likely swords since they are often the only people who can afford to have them made.
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:45, Sat 08 Dec 2018.

In reply to Chiisai Tori (msg # 55):

I’m sorry I got so emotional I was just getting really excited about my character and was really disappointed that I was going to have to change him.
I didn’t mean my Budoka was useless at ranged attacks what I was trying to say was the Budoka who stays within his Budoka skills is going to get destroyed by a Bushi if it turns into a long range combat and they are both using skills only available to their class.
Creating my character the biggest weakness of a pure Budoka were addressed by taking the bow and taking the chain if I’m kept out of range.   What can I say except that you helped me create the ultimate damage producing machine.  I could easily knock my self out in a round with a couple good rolls.  But I was designed to dish it out and not designed to take it.

I have no doubt that if we worked together we would create a Bushi that would kick some serious butt. He probably wouldn’t be as damage producing as my current Budoka but he would be really close and then would have advantages in many other areas over the Budoka.

I was working on a Bushi who fought with both my swords and then was going to take either jujutsu or Atemi Waza as his optional skill. I’d be happy to work with you on creating this guy to see how good we could make him.  Then we could have a bunch of combat fights with different classes to see how he would do.  I don’t know much about the other classes as I was focusing on just the two classes.

Maybe this would convince me that your change is needed.  I wouldn’t bet on it since it seemed to go to far but you might be able to convince me that something less drastic would be better.

Anyway thanks for rescinding this rule change. I’m really excited about my character and seeing what he can do.

In reply to Totsu (msg # 56):

Also what did you think about my proposal to keep the damage die a d6 and just subtract or add for every 5 points of strength?  This is how all the damage for other weapons seems to be done and I would not object in anyway if you did this.
It does seem kinda like you are double dipping with both the damage die going up and getting the strength bonus as well so if you made the base damage for a punch/kick work the same as the other weapons I would not disagree with this.  Of course if you keep it the way it currently is I won’t complain because it helps my character.
If you think the balance is two far out of whack making a smaller change like this would not bother me at all and possibly down the line if you can show me that all the points I argued about are not accurate then I would support you in the more drastic change.
Thanks

GROUP
FYI, these are Takeshi's current abilities if we need to incorporate any into planning.

Skills         Score  RAW   Bonus   BCS   FIS
Magic, Metal     45     9    YES     11   Yes
Magic, Wood      28     5    YES      7   Yes
Magic, Water     28     5    YES      7   Yes
Yadome           40     8    No       8   Yes
Tantojutsu       38     7    YES      9   Yes
Rhetoric         80    16    YES     18   Yes
Commerce         53    10    No      10   Yes
Dance, Popular   53    10    No      10   No
Katakana         99    19    YES     21   No
Hiragana         99    19    YES     21   No

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