A popular tavern on Noble, known for mediocre food and good brews, that's universally known as  'Neutral Ground', and acts as a place for people with business (legit and otherwise) to meet and resolve business.

*waves to Kusanagi*

Slowly posting the campaign rules.  Now that i actually have a player i suppose i have greater motivation to move on this.

I have like 80% of it worked out in my head.

At the moment i'm working out the 'cost'.

There's a cost to purchase, a cost to maintain, and a cost to engage.

I havent decided on a unit cap yet, but planet side units will be limited to a company, which should help keep players who fall on bad luck competitive.

Questions are welcome, I prefer them to be posted on a public thread so that other players can see them.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:55, Wed 12 Dec 2018.

I think, i want to have a test run on the rules before going 'live'.

Do you want to roll up a 'test' unit, and run it through a few test turns to get the kinks out of the rules?

I have to finish working on the TRO, but i have the light units up, and you can discern the direction of the missing units by the notes i have in the campaign rules for a rough guess on how the larger units will look.

It's all randomized anyway, so it's not like you can pick specific units, just the general size of the units.

Make certain when your use the die roller, to clearly mark what you are rolling for.

ie.  'Light Mech'

or

'Starting Pilot'

Of course.

A nice test run is always a good way to shake out some issues with a ruleset.  See if we like the way things are working and make adjustments as needed.

So...

<Tt>
 700 SP | 175 AP |    EP - Veteran Officer - Kusanagi
 500 SP | 125 AP | 20 EP - Pilot Officer
 300 SP |  75 AP | 20 EP - Pilot
 300 SP |  75 AP | 20 EP - Pilot
 300 SP |  75 AP | 20 EP - Pilot
------------------------
2100 SP | 525 AP | 80 EP   Used
------------------------
 900 SP | 475 AP | 20 EP   Remaining <tt>

Go for a slightly over strength Lance worth of mechs.  Figure I'd use this as a marker just in case I flubbed in the dice roller.  Will roll in order with: Heavy Mech, Medium Mech, Pilot, Light Mech, Pilot, Light Mech, Pilot, Light Mech, Pilot.  All of the pilots will get a +2 to their starting experience roll and the Medium Pilot is his XO ala 'Officer' for four or more MechWarriors.

Let's see how the RNG comes out for Kusanagi.  I won't edit this post.

It is SUPER IMPORTANT to note, that mechs and pilots are not married to each other.

You may mix and match pilots and mechs.

So you dont have to put that super good pilot that rolled in the Locust, you can move him over to say a Phoenix Hawk, and move the sub par pilot there to the Locust.

You also dont have to designate an officer till after you make rolls, so you dont end up with a Green Officer.

I'm already inflicting RNG grief on players, this bit of flexibility is intended to take the sting out of at least mix matched rolls.

While you dont root for the Green Locust Pilot to explode into spare parts, it'll hurt less, to make room for something better.


Also... it should be noted, that you're limited to 12 mechs planet side, you may have 'spares' off planet to cycle in for specific missions.
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:26, Thu 13 Dec 2018.

23:16, Today: Kusanagi Nagamichi rolled 8 using 2d6.  Heavy Mech Pirate Leader
Crusader
23:18, Today: Kusanagi Nagamichi rolled 6 using 2d6.  Medium Mech.
Cicada
23:20, Today: Kusanagi Nagamichi rolled 9 using 2d6+2.  Cicada Officer skill.
Regular
23:21, Today: Kusanagi Nagamichi rolled 11 using 2d6.  Light Mech 1 of 3.
Jenner
23:22, Today: Kusanagi Nagamichi rolled 12 using 2d6+2.  Jenner Pilot skill.
Veteran
23:23, Today: Kusanagi Nagamichi rolled 12 using 2d6.  Light Mech 2 of 3.
Player's Choice any 3025 mech
23:24, Today: Kusanagi Nagamichi rolled 6 using 2d6+2.  Player's Choice Pilot skill.
Green
23:25, Today: Kusanagi Nagamichi rolled 5 using 2d6.  Light Mech 3 of 3.
Commando
23:26, Today: Kusanagi Nagamichi rolled 7 using 2d6+2.  Commando Pilot skill.
Green

Well then the only change I'd make is shift the officer over to the Jenner Pilot cause they are also Veteran.

So...
Crusader, Veteran Officer, PC
Jenner, Veteran Officer, NPC
Cicada, Regular, NPC
Commando, Green, NPC
Any light, Green, NPC

Gotta hit the sack but that's an interesting crew to run with.  Fast mechs to spot for the big Crusader, Commando backing up the Crusader with a mass of SRM's and one grab bag any Mech in a greenies hands.  Unless I can think of a better light Mech for that veteran officer than a Jenner.  That's hard to beat.

I'm gonna sleep on the possibilities.

Well as I said, you roll, and you have a 'pool' of mechs, and a 'pool' of talent to pilot it.

You pick what's used at your discretion.

So at the moment your unit looks like.

Off Planet Assets

Mechwarrior

{Officer} {3 CV} Kusanagi Nagamichi - Veteran
{Officer} {3 CV} Veteran

{MW}{2 CV} Veteran
{MW}{1 CV} Regular
{MW}{0 CV} Green
{MW}{0 CV} Green


Mechs
</center>

{Any Light}

---

Would like to try out a quick 'skirmish'.

So form up a 'unit'.  A unit size is limited by the CV of the 'commander'.  If you use one of your veteran officers, you can field a full lance, if not the cap of the unit is smaller.  Green Pilots have enough trouble piloting and is incapable of leading anything.

Footnotes:
Your 'any light' can be any legal mech, but for the purposes of this exercise since it's all for testing purposes anyway, i'd like for you to just pick a mech off the table to make my life easier on mech calculations.

Will generate stats for your Cicada and Crusader now though.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:56, Thu 13 Dec 2018.

heh....

coming up with stats going to take a little longer than expected.

Cicadas and Crusaders were never used in my previous campaigns, so i cant use my previous source material and have to go find my tech readout.

If this skirmish plays out well we'll have enough of the 'kinks' worked out so that we can almost start.  I want to work out some more interesting options though to spend initial CBill cash on.

Right, stats posted.  The Cicada sort of sucks, no surprise, but the Crusader is a general all purpose beast which is a bit of a surprise for me.

I'm going to roll up a random unit as well for the Op Force.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:57, Thu 13 Dec 2018.

08:58, Today: Precentor Kitty rolled 8 using 2d6.  Light Mech.

08:58, Today: Precentor Kitty rolled 7 using 2d6.  Light Mech.

08:58, Today: Precentor Kitty rolled 4 using 2d6.  Light Mech.

08:58, Today: Precentor Kitty rolled 5 using 2d6.  Medium Mech.

08:57, Today: Precentor Kitty rolled 10 using 2d6.  Heavy Mech.

08:59, Today: Precentor Kitty rolled 9,12,12,8,9 using 2d6+2,2d6+2,2d6+2,2d6+2,2d6+2.

---

So using your buying selection, i ended up with...

Locust
Wasp
Valkyrie
Centurion
Maurader

My pilots are (2) Veterans, (2) Regulars, and (1) Green.  Of which, I make one of the Veterans an Officer.  Adding 'myself' to the list, I have (3) Veterans.

So... my best 'lance' from these rolls are...

Maurader  - Veteran Officer - Pirate Leader
Centurion - Veteran Officer -
Valkyrie  - Veteran
Locust    - Regular


Base Cost to deploy them planetside, is the tonnage of the mechs (175 tons), which would cost me 175 CBills, doubled to 350 CB, since i Dont have an Operational Base on turn one.

The theory is that we both paid to deployed and ran into each other almost immediately.

I’m not surprised about the Crusader.

It’s a solid mech that can hit at every range, has decent armour for its tonnage and heat sinks to allow the range bands to fire relatively well.  It’s biggest ‘flaws’ are no jump jets and absolutely needs a supply line cause so many of its weapons require ammo.

And yeah Cicadas suck unless you’re up against Wasps, Stingers, Locusts, Thorns or Fleas.

As for using your list for the any mech I’ll simply pick another Combine mech - Panther.

I’ve got to run into work now but I’ll pop on my phone at lunch to see anything new.

Another thing you could add to spending c-bills on at start is 'buying' yourself a plus or minus 1 to your roll (or 2 or 3 if you want to mimic the piloting skill rolls) allowing more choice in potential starting mechs.  Personally I'd say limit it to plus or minus 1.  That gives you 3 options for mechs...what you rolled along with one above and one below.

---

Assuming I go with the Panther to keep parity (rather than going larger with that mech roll of 12) for this trial run and my pirate says 'Gee fellahs why don't I take you greenhorns out to make sure you can walk straight in those machines...'

Crusader - Veteran Officer - Pirate Leader Kusanagi Nagamichi
Panther  - Regular
Jenner   - Green
Commando - Green

A deploy cost of 320 CB (160 tons = 160 CB, 160 CB x2 no Base = 320) will get them planet-side and accidentally running into your guys right off the bat.

You know what, why dont you take that '12' roll, and roll again on the Medium Mech table.

I like that concept ALOT more than letting them pick one of hundreds of mechs that i'll have to make stats for and have to track individually.

Really, on average you shouldn't have to complain to hard, that you're rolling again if it's on a larger mech chart, I think i'm going to make that modification to the charts when i have a moment.

Thoughts on the process so far?  Regarding the unit formation bits, and the rules i have up currently.

I've absolutely dumped the concept of heat management, which is good for some mechs, and bad for others.  Everyone will be on a learning curve to figure out the 'good' mechs again.

MG's no longer suck, presuming you dont mind engaging in brutal Over Run combat.  In battle tech this is around Physical Combat, which is why larger mechs naturally have a higher rating, though MGs, rattle off quite a few rounds (per Solaris Rules) and are pretty brutal when factoring in for damage.

I expect maps to be TINY, like a 10 hex by 10 hex diamond, with units entering the map from 'their corner'.

A 'free' upgrade on a 12 isn't a bad way to go.

19:11, Today: Kusanagi Nagamichi rolled 4 using 2d6.  12 roll on Light mech table, now on Medium.
Trebuchet

So Crusader, Trebuchet, Jenner, Commando.  That's one missile heavy lance.  Also your Crusader has a movement of 4 and needs to be bumped down to a 2.  Definitely going to need to get used to the altered movement/combat style.  Like you said...learning curve all over again.

I expect combat to be pretty brutal and nasty with several ways for mechs to be disabled.

Aside from the obvious Armor and Internals to soad damage, a mech can be forced into submissions.  If they have their movement reduced to Zero and become stationary, life will suck for them.

Mech Warrior endurance is a real thing too, since having them take damage will reduce their skill level, and possibly lead to unconsciousness or having them out right killed.

Test battle to see how lethal things are will be sort of key.

I need a day or so to work out a map and then i need to find a place to post it, maybe my Deviant Art account.

Map will be small, units few, and facing wont be an issue, so i'm hoping i wont have to make updated maps for stuff.

Players can just 'meet' and bludgeon each other into submission, and i'll collect the results for campaign bookkeeping.

I havent decided if i want to roll up a unit to join as well for the fun, or if i should just run the Noble Garrison units, and watch the mayhem as an impartial judge.

With just you and me you could toss it up in your GDrive and share it as far as the map goes.

I'm going to need a 'set' of maps anyway.

First map I'm going to make will be 'plains'

So mostly blank map with two or three clumps of trees to fight around.

I mostly need to work out the dimensions of the map first.

After we square out a practice game, and i have a demo to put up i'll actually put it out for advertisement and we'll see what interest will be.

It's not TRUE battle tech, but it will run quick and easy, and also have a battletech feel.

Obviously not true battletech but the people that come may be good candidates if you choose to shift from something like this to your old campaigns that are closer to regular battletech.

no. not looking to run my old campaign, i dont have the time for it.

the bookkeeping on that was murder.

like the twilight campaign, looking back, i have no idea how i did it the first time around.

Right.  We have a 'Plains' map now to work with, located at...

http://fav.me/dcukbdz

This is going to be the 'standard' size for tactical combat.

Largest unit you will ever be able to field is 'six' mechs, which is why there are six deployment hexs.

The 'edges' for the deployment hexes also serve as a 'retreat' hex.  You may only retreat if there is another mech providing cover (rear guard) and if there is no enemy mechs at range three or less of the hex being used to retreat.

Exception:  Your opponent indicates they will allow the retreating mech to withdraw.


To keep this interesting, I'm inclined to make this a 'capture the flag mission.  In each of the heavy woods is a 'flag'.  You recover the flag by entering the woods and spending a turn 'searching' for it (no movement but you may make weapon fire).  After one turn of non-movement you have found the flag.

If the mech is considered a 'scout' you may recover it and move immediately.  If the mech is not a scout, you must spend another turn recovering the flag.

In the event of a tie, standard victory rules are in play.


Standard victory.  Compare the Tonnage of mechs eliminated by both sides.  The side with the greater score, wins.  If the score is the same, the mission ends in a draw.

You may draw units from your unit list, and i will do the same.

Defender (Blue) deploys First.

Attacker (Red) deploys Second.

Questions?
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:26, Sun 16 Dec 2018.

Sorry for the slight delay on my end.  Found out my in-laws are coming for Christmas and staying for about three months.

Cleaning has ensued and we’re changing a study into a second bedroom.

——

No questions now, likely later once we’re in the scrum.

On my phone so slow posting at best during the day.

No worries, holidays are in, and no one else is around so we can pace this however we like.

So here’s a question...

When you ‘hit’ do you do the damage listed in your range band?  So the Crusader who hit at long range on a target would take 3 damage, 2 of which would be to armour and 1 to internals?

—

Gonna stick to seeing the spread for this trial run/group.  Want to get the full feel of a crappy unit versus a good one in pilot skill.

Crusader - Vet Officer - Pirate Leader Kusanagi Nagamichi
Trebuchet  - Regular
Jenner   - Green
Commando - Green

A deploy cost of 350 CB (175 tons = 175 CB, 175 CB x2 no Base = 350) will get them planet-side and accidentally running into your guys right off the bat.

In reply to Kusanagi Nagamichi (msg # 23):

you roll a d6 for each point in your range band, and each hit does 1 damage.

Tally up the damage for the salvo and every third is an internal.

So the crusader at long range will roll 3 dice and each one that hits will be a point of damage.  It sounds bad, but all you have to do is put 3d6 into the roller and have it show all rolls and count the hits.

No that makes sense now.

Each range band has a ‘composite’ average of the sort of average damage can be done.  No facing for attack or defense means being able to dilute armour and internals to a single set of numbers.

Like I said I’ll roll with my greenies so we can see if the hit possibilities feel too harsh or just right rather than automatically sporting my ‘best’ pilots.

Yeah the Cicada sucks but...wouldn’t it also be a scout despite its mass?  That is it’s job after all.  That and vaguely surviving longer than a Wasp.

The numbers for green are pretty harsh.

They're based off the basic rule books.

Greens are like 5/6 or 6/6

Regs were the 'base' at 4/5

Veterans are around 3/4 ish and elites are perhaps around 2/3 ish.

Okay i'm going to post a separate thread for this, and leave it as an example of tactical combat then.

A bunch of mechs i need to make stats for, so short delay in start till i have them ready.  I actually have to go out after lunch to buy some late xmas presents before it becomes a serious zoo, so i may not get to this today.

I had a thought...

I was thinking as a restriction for unit formations, that each one be limited to 'one' officer.  This will help keep people from putting all their best eggs in one basket and spreading  out the talent.

This makes sense to me, cause officers are suppose to lead units, so what's the point of putting them in the same unit.

Concur?
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:03, Wed 19 Dec 2018.

Yeah, it would.  I was making various mech traits, and had yet to assign them all properly.

ie.  The p-hawk, would be both a scout and a leadership mech.

I do need to sit down and finish the TRO before we start in earnest.

I think one officer fits for four or fewer mechs.  For five or six I could see a second one in the vein of a junior officer ala xo or a ranking nco...if officer just is a broad term of knows how to lead better.  Since were never talking about more than six in a given mission that seems to be a fair spread.

It only really becomes an issue if it’s similar to the most recent PC Battletech game that has so called ‘flash points’ where there isn’t time for re-arm and repair.  So you’re forced to split your people accordingly.  Representing overlapping engagements or the like.  Otherwise you’ll never have a need for a second officer cause your pirate leader will always deploy.

Take whatever time you need.  I’ll be around.

'Six' in a given mission, presumes the maximum of all possible factors.

4 for an elite
1 for an officer
1 for an leadership mech

A unit is presumed to be a single entity, not two, and an officer a leader of such an entity, so, if you were to add such to a unit, i suppose it should be allowed, but he would lose his officer status for the duration of such an assignment seems a reasonable ruling.

Yup.

Their presence in a unit with five or six is there specifically under the idea that if the commander goes down they step up and finish out a mission.  Obviously if the unit folds on the death/incapacitation of the leader then it’s a moot point.

Sorry i've left this for so long.

The holidays and a road trip to Boston derailed most of my energy from the campaign.

The good news is i got to test the rules with my friend in boston and it tested really well.  Some grey details were worked out on how to handle woods, and some suggestions were made on how to do things, but it was noted that it really did feel like battletech when you played and many battletech concerns and strategies did translate well to this version of the game.

So... I'm going to take all my spare time and make the TRO now with new motivation!

No worries.

You know I’m among the most patient of sorts.  I’m glad you got in some actual play testing to iron out some things.  It’s always best when you can face to face go over and through issues that crop up and thoughts that arise from it all.  Do whatcha need and you know I’m here when we’re good to go for our play test run through here.

:-)

Right, just finished the TRO for Light, Medium, and Heavy mechs.

Will revise the mission and we'll have a go at it starting tomorrow then.

^.6

Right.

Had a real life mess that i'm in the final stages of resolving (thank god).

I want to move on this now, but i've considered, the 'pirate' war thing, is maybe the wrong way to go about it.  As usual, that is probably the ambitious end game i should be aiming for, and is too early to attempt.

Instead I'm going to make this a 'solo' campaign for you, where you play a mercenary commander, and will be taking your unit out on contracts and missions.

I'm reducing the scope of the concept down to a single unit.  So i aspire to include more roleplaying now, which i believe you would be up for.

I've actually sat down play a few table top versions of this now, so some more of the odd rules have been worked out.  I'm feeling good about this now, but less so about typing out each and every rule out.

So... hopefully youre up for starting this.

I'm going to presume you're willing to good with the unit you rolled up, though they do need a mercenary name now.

You can also name the Mechwarriors in the unit, since that will give them more flavor, and make them easier to identify for various things.



Currently...

Officers
(vet) - (3 Command Value) - Kusanagi Nagamichi
(vet) - (3 Command Value) - {no name}

Mechwarriors
(reg) - (1 Command Value) - {no name}
(grn) - (0 Command Value) - {no name}
(grn) - (0 Command Value) - {no name}

Available Mechs
Crusader
Cicada
Jenner
Commando

You have a fifth mech available to you.  You may pick any of the light mechs available in the campaign, or you may trust to luck and roll again for an upgrade on the Medium Mech table.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:06, Fri 05 Apr 2019.

It's great to hear that whatever the mess was is getting resolved finally.  Welcome Back *hugs*

:)

Yup still up for it.  Maybe more so than when we first talked about it cause of my own RL situation getting shifted around meaning next to no time playing the computer game.

Well we are working on continuing to iron out kinks so might as well roll on the medium and see what happens.

15:36, Today: Kusanagi Nagamichi rolled 10 using 2d6.  Light Mech 12 Upgrade to Medium Mech Chart.

Enforcer.  Good mech.  Will be interesting to see how it does under these rules.  Will have to think about names for the other pilots now.

I've started you on Sol, in the year 3024.

The third sucession war is still in play, and we're in the middle / end of it.

For the sake of keeping things interesting, i WONT be following canon events and time lines, so really, anything can happen.

Consider this an 'alternate' universe.

At the moment, Kusanagi needs a new contract.  Even if most of the best are taken up by big name merc units, there is enough work around for even small units to survive.

You may start with no affiliation, or having history and worked with a house.  You may select if you have had positive, or negative results from working with the house.

You may also pick if you want a 'long term' or 'short term' contract.

There are also 'non' house contracts as well, so may look into serving with a larger name merc unit, periphery states, or even pirate units.  These contracts will have less options (if available at all).

He's going to stay away from House Kurita on general principle.  He may still be a citizen but he is well aware of the Combine's perspective on Mercs and how they company store them into death.

Miyazaki Tatsuko will be his fellow vet pilot from the Combine.  She'll keep an eye on his back, usually with the Enforcer.  Phil Lord wil be his regular pilot from cross the border Davion space and usually piloting the Commando.  Max and Maxine Kazhuro will be the twins that are green pilots but pilot the swift Cicada and Jenner usually.

No major affiliation, having worked for both House Marik and House Steiner on their borders doing shore up garrison work on forgettable planets more likely to be hit by Pirates than part of a Major offensive but who knows.  With the two 'newbs' of Max and Maxine joining up he'd look for a short term contract to assess if they will work with the otherwise smaller.

Well say they are looking for either more Steiner or Marik contracts, possibly Capellan.  They try to stay away from things that would pit them against Combine or Davion interests.

Sorry for that slight delay.

In-laws are now permanently moved in with us so it's prompted a lot of changes to make things work *sigh chuckles*

I've had some time to think about the story line for the campaign.

The year is going to be 3020.

Katrina Steiner just put out her Peace accord which has been declined by all the great houses.

Everything you know till this point is canon.

From this point forward, history will change.

I have a few serious tweaks, in the form of 'what if' in the historical events to explore, and want to see how they play out.

You will get to see them from the mercs view.

I am actually, at this moment, excited to explore the new timeline events and look forward to playing them out in an entertaining manner for you.

Odd for a Davion pilot in a Commando, i would have thought you would have gone with a Lyran pilot, but this is a merc unit, so pilots and mechs dont have to matter.  The commando could have fell off a truck as a war spoil against the lyran and matched up with Lords somewhere along the way.

Post to the Merc Board, when ready.

When it was 3024-3025 a Commando in Davion hands was less surprising. :)

Should have a post up tonight in the Merc Board.

Still find, you're a merc unit, so its possible you just picked it up somewhere is all.

Several possible starting points, so i'm narrowing down the direction of the story based on the contract you're going to take.

A 'Marik Raid' is still a pretty broad catagory, and then after that will be 'terms' of the contract.

* blows dust off the forum *

* Kicks Kusanagi *

Hey you've been napping long enough.  Old player from the Merc game gave me a poke and wanted to play.  I'm not doing battletech, but he was okay was helping to play test this.

So...  I figure, lets put the roleplaying aside for the moment, and just generate a quick no stakes battle for you both to get a feel for the game rules and stuff.

Reyvak, if you want to change the character (commander) name, that's fine, let me know and it'll be done.  Go take a look at the Campaign information.

State here how you want to allocate your resources, then ... make some dice rolls.  Yeah... dice rolls, rng can be terrible from the get go.

Also, be aware, units are 'standard' and unmodified, unless you roll a tw, then you can pick a variant of a mech from the table.  If you roll a twelve, you can pick any available STANDARD mech (subject to my approval, i deem it available.  Please nothing twinkish from places i've never heard of before)

This campaign is very much in the playtest phase, and was never published with a desire for players because we were suppose to SLOWLY workout the campaign rules, but... well, we got busy and lazy.

I think the first test mission will be your entire unit (that you can field) played off against one another just as a point to see how the random units feel and to get you both a taste of the rules.

If Kusanagi is too busy to play i'll just field and run his unit for him.  I promote from unbiased referee to biased player...  o.O


After we get two or three games out of the way, twiddle with the rules, and such we'll decide if were ready for an actual campaign game.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:32, Wed 27 Nov 2019.

Also... Rey, you can look at previous comments between me and Kusanagi, regarding unit generation which should be helpful as a guide.  I made sure to document it in public for cases like this as a reference for new players.

In reply to Precentor Kitty (msg # 48):

I think I understand, I will roll some dick to decide which mechs i get, I think i will roll 1 Heavy, 2 Medium and 1 light.

Thats 2000 Spare Parts, and 500 Ammo.

Just a note: Campaign INformation thread, First Post, says 50 Cbills for EP, Next Post, says EP cannot be purchased with cbills.

my rolls:

15:45, Today: Reyvak rolled 6 using 2d6 with rolls of 2,4.  Heavy Mech.
15:45, Today: Reyvak rolled 8 using 2d6 with rolls of 3,5.  Medium #1.
15:45, Today: Reyvak rolled 7 using 2d6 with rolls of 5,2.  Medium #2.
15:46, Today: Reyvak rolled 7 using 2d6 with rolls of 5,2.  Light.

Mech Loadout: Dragon, Whitworth, Pheonix Hawk, Locust


Rules say 1 recruitment roll per mech purchased, so...

15:55, Today: Reyvak rolled 10 using 2d6 with rolls of 5,5.  recruit roll 4.
15:55, Today: Reyvak rolled 8 using 2d6 with rolls of 3,5.  Recruit roll 3.
15:55, Today: Reyvak rolled 10 using 2d6 with rolls of 6,4.  Recruit Roll 2.
15:55, Today: Reyvak rolled 6 using 2d6 with rolls of 1,5.  Recruit Roll 1.

2 Green Pilots and 2 Regulars.

Spend 10 EP to Upgrade my two green pilots to Regulars.
15:57, Today: Reyvak rolled 11 using 2d6 with rolls of 6,5.  Regular Upgrade 2.
15:57, Today: Reyvak rolled 10 using 2d6 with rolls of 6,4.  Regular Upgrade 1.

ohh, nvm, this is only for after missions... disregard that spend then. i think that is everything.

In reply to Reyvak (msg # 49):

Reyvak Dexx aka Rixx

Winston Hill aka Sparkles - Reg
Markus Venn aka HotDog - Reg
Natalia Ross aka Vermin -Green
Jeremy Orr aka Flatline - Green
This message was last edited by the player at 00:10, Thu 28 Nov 2019.

HAPPY THANKS GIVING!

will take a little time to browse what you done, and get back to you after thanksgiving probably, may try and get some stuff done tonight, but if nothing comes in tonight, i'm on the road tomorrow all day and wont be back till late, then you have the whole shopping for sales thing (I'm hoping for a new tablet), so... will be a little distracted.  If i dont get anything up tonight, wont be for a few days.

That said, i will try and give it a look through to approve, so i can at least familiarize myself with the rules.

You are considered a 1st Lt / Captain ish rank.  You can designate one of the NPC's as an officer, and stuff... i have to double check the rules on that again to be sure.  Will be using the mexican rule where things are fuzzy and presume in your favor where possible.

In reply to Precentor Kitty (msg # 51):

no worries.

Okay sitting to look now, did you have a name for your unit?

Lets see, your unit started out with...

'You', a Veteran - Officer.


5000 CB
3000 SP
1000 AP
 100 EP



You spent  700sp and 175ap for a Heavy  Mech
You spent 1000sp and 250ap for 2 Medium Mechs
You spent  300sp and  75ap for a Light  Mech

Total Spent 2000sp and 500ap for mechs

You received Dragon, Phoenix Hawk, Whitworth, and Locust.

That leaves you with 5000cb, 1000sp, 500ap, and 100ep

You spent 40ep, to improve the roll for two pilots by +2
You spent 20ep, to improve the roll for two pilots by +1
(I presume that's what you meant by spending for green and regular improvements?)

Your pilot skills are
10 + 2 = Veteran - Officer (2nd Lt.)
 8 + 2 = Regular
10 + 1 = Veteran
 6 + 1 = Green

So, going by your name list from best to worse, i presume...

Vet 2nd Lt Winston Hill - Sparkles
Vet MW  Markus Venn     - Hot Dog
Reg MW  Natalia Ross    - Vermin
Grn MW  Jeremy Orr      - Flatline

For this campaign, Pilots are NOT forced to use the same mech over... and over... and over.

You can move pilots from one mech to another, they did it all the time in the Grey Death Legion.

If a pilot is hurt, but their mech is functional, you dont have to bench the mech if you have a spare mw, you can put him in the mech, or move a mw from a 'lesser' mech to the one without a mw.

Each mech after the first one, comes with a pilot.  The first 'pilot' is presumed to be 'you', so you don't roll a pilot for the first mech.

Since you feel a little understrengthed to me, i'm going to ask you to keep the pilots you have and roll up a fifth mech for 'yourself', though really you can put yourself in any mech in the unit.

Your current finances are pretty good, and can probably handle another light without serious issue for long term health for the unit.  (Kusanagi has five mechs and you will be entering the practice game at a handicap if you're a mech short.)

You should also tell me which pilots are in which mechs.

At this point i will put both units down in the 'Unit' listings.

By the way, Rey, do you have any questions on how things are going to work?

In reply to Precentor Kitty (msg # 58):

sort of, but im not really sure about combat, cos thats about as clear as mud from what I have read.

stats have been simplified.

Armor is equal to 1/5 of the armor factors of the mech

Weapons are noted as 'fire factors' and equates to roughly five points of damage.

So if a weapon 'hits' it takes off a point of armor.

Pretty simple.

---

How do you hit?  Much like battletech, you compare the mw gunnery skill with the targets ability to essentially get out of the way.

Add +0 for Short  Range
Add +1 for Medium Range
Add +2 for Long   Range

Target Defense Modifier

ie.  A Green Mechwarrior is trying to shoot a Locust at Short Range {+4 Def Mod +0 Range}
The Mechwarrior will need to roll '6' on a D6, followed by a second roll of 5+ to land a hit on the nimble target.

A Veteran Mechwarrior trying to hit the same target, at the same range will need only a 5+
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:00, Thu 28 Nov 2019.

So lets say your Phoenix Hawk Pilot is a regular skilled MW.

And you're shooting at say Kasanagi's Commando.

Presume there is no terrain to consider.

You look at the mechwarriors skill 'Regular' and the Mechs defense '3', and presume not adjustment for short range.


This pilot will need a roll of 5+ on a d6 to hit.  If they hit they do a point of damage.

The P Hawk at short range has '3' Weapon factors, which means they roll three dice at short range.

so you roll 3d6, and every die roll of 5 or 6 is a hit.... so...

23:06, Today: Precentor Kitty rolled 13 using 3d6 with rolls of 5,5,3.  Test roll.

There are two 5's, so the commando takes two hits.
So the commando's armor drops from a 12 to a 10.

It should be noted that every third hit is marked off as an 'internal'.  For arguements sake lets say that the Commando took a point of damage earlier, so they take a point of internals 'now'.  You roll a critical.

Roll d6 for each critical hit

1-2 = Leg Actuator               (Decrease the Units movement by one)
3   = Jump Jet                   (Decrease the Units jump by one) / If no jump jet, (Decrease movement by one.)
4   = Weapon Destroyed           (Decrease Attack Rating for all ranges by one)
5   = Mech Warrior injured       (Mech Warrior takes (1) Damage)
6   = Ammo Explosion / Pilot Hit (Mech destroyed) / If no ammo, Pilot Takes (2) Damage

Criticals are pretty brutal.  There are no 'good' criticals.  Just ouch and OUCH.

A mechs defense is based on movement, so if they took a leg actuator hit and lose a point of movement, not only do they move slower oon the map, their defense drops a point to, so this P Hawk pilot will have an easier time hitting a defense of '2' needing only a 4+ roll now.

MW injury is pretty bad too.  When they take a point of damage, they 'lose' a level of skill.  So if this Commando pilot was a Regular skilled pilot, they just became 'green'.  Ammo explosions are still pretty fatal.  If the mech has no ammo, the consequences are still pretty bad, the pilot takes two damage, and that green pilot just becomes 'stationary'.  Green ~> to unconscious (for the whole battle) ~> to dead pilot.

So... yeah taking criticals is pretty bad.  If you're in something like a war hammer, with a movement of 2, two leg actuator hits later and you're a stationary building.

Just like in battle tech, small mechs usually die from running out of internals, big ones usually get incapacitated from criticals or dead pilots.

That's the gist of shooting and taking combat.

The goal is to simplify combat, without sacrificing too much of the normal game feel.

It should be observed, that for this campaign, i do use bits of Solaris rules.

ie. Weapon speeds and initiative will feel different.

Weapon speeds makes ballistic weapons more attractive, especially mg, and NON-instantaneous combat, makes initiative more interesting.

Because do you want to wait and see what that player is going to do, or work with the map you have and do your damage now before they do.

etc...

HOpefully that clears some of it up, and after one practice game things should get alot easier.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:05, Thu 28 Nov 2019.

Okay the flood of activity has settled down from Thanksgiving so i'll make an effort to post something for Reyvak tomorrow.

I had originally wanted to try a player vs player mission, but it seems Kusanagi is still distracted by issues in the flesh and blood world.  They've acknowedged my message, but has made no further contact, that being the case i will procede without him.

If we can get two or three 'practice' missions done, to iron out the rules, and get a 'sample' mission of for players to look at, i'll feel better about opening the game for public consumption by new players.

Okay just got word from Kusa, that he's in so it'll be player vs player.


The mission will have stated 'objectives', and the first player to reach their score objective wins.

Kusa has five mechs, and will be allowed to field all five of his mechs.

Reyvak SHOULD have a fifth mech for 'himself', which he should pay for and roll up (you wont get a pilot for this mech).

Right.

Test mission is now ACTIVE.

If you missed it, the link for the map in use is...
http://fav.me/dcukbdz

---

Things i need from the players during set up.

In a private message you may submit to me (2), hexes of interest that your opponent is interested in scouting.  (hint: its in your interest to not make it anywhere easy for them to get to)

In a private message, you shall tell me which pilots are in which mechs.

In a private message, you shall tell me where in your starting area, your mechs are deploying.

---

Reyvak, You will also roll for a fifth mech, which will be made a public record for Kusanagi to be aware of what is on the opposition's team.

Mission is to 'ten points', which at the moment requires you to annihilate your opponent, unless you are mindful of 'secondary' objectives like scouting the lay of the land and destroying/saving/stealing resources from one another.

A fair variety of ways to score points.

Each hex is around 180 meters (6 hexes), so given the number of units on the map, there is no stacking limitations.

So it's possible to form 'teams'.  (Testing this concept out)


The (4) AMC's are considered a 'team', and will move and fire as a single unit, unless you decide to splinter them apart.

So to sum up, each player will have 8~9 units to balance offense and defense with.

Will give you guys a day or so to get me your private messages in.

We're not a on a super fast schedule, but i would like things to move at a reasonable pace.  At LEAST one response every three days, at least until the holidays hit, then if you have things distracting you, that's understandable.

---

First mission will be a learning experience, so if you make mistakes, that's fine, please accept that you're on the learning curve, and that things may not work the way you think they may.  Don't be afraid to make mistakes.  This is a practice game and now it the time to find out if something doesnt work the day you thought it did.

Also, the sooner you get the turns in the quicker the pace of the game.  You two will decide the pace since i'm just here to referee.

As a side note... I will NOT be updating the map.  I'll have a table with the locations of mechs, and supplies and what not, but i'm out of practice and really dont have a place to host maps at the moment.  Thankfully, upkeep on this game should be simple enough not to matter.

If you REALLY have trouble visualizing it, print out the map and mark things with coins or something is my suggestion.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:46, Mon 02 Dec 2019.

*waves to Reyvak and Kitty*

Wanted to actually pop in and make a simple post so you knew for sure I was here.  Will refresh myself today and see about answering Kitty's questions in a second post in the test mission thread.

Answer in the mission with a private tag, or drop me a private message, either works for me.

Though remember that when i archive the mission for a sample of the rules, that private messages will be made public.

ummm... its been a few days (going on a week?) since he's checked in.  Maybe a little slow getting over thanksgiving is my guess?

Hopefully he'll check in soon.

When deciding stuff for the mission, think of it as a battletech mission, to help you decide on the specifics like if scouting is worth while or not, is it easier to steal or too much trouble and just blowing it up for cheap points is the way to go.  etc...

If the rules work out right, what works in one should work in the other... more or less...

Looks like Reyvak is declining to roll for a new mech, so we'll call it in transit and shipping.  Will offer him (2) AMC's to help make up for it,but really they're a poor substitute.

Yeah sorry, USCIS decided they wanted to have a meeting with the wife and the letter got to us in the mail only a day before the thing was supposed to take place.  Had to drop everything and make it happen so she could finish up her naturalization process.

Also...

I noticed that I rolled for the upgrade from light to medium and got a Trebuchet.  Then after the hiatus you asked me to roll again and I got the Enforcer, lol.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:55, Fri 06 Dec 2019.

I was wondering about that.

I hadnt finalized the stats on your unit cause i wasnt sure about that, we should make it a Trebuchet then.

Sounds good.

Just swap out the Enforcer drop point for the Trebuchet and keep the same pilot in it.

Okay, I still need to fix Kusanagi's stats, then i will post the set ups, and the first tomorrow (i'm off to bed now).

per Message 5
link to a message in this game

You should start with initiative.

You both have Vetaran Commanders, which is a +3 mod to the roll, so experience wont make a difference here.  You both have Veteran second in commands too, so even if you get head hunted it wont make a difference any time soon.

So the person with the higher die roll will have initiative, and decide who goes first after i post the set up.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:50, Fri 06 Dec 2019.

14:29, Today: Kusanagi Nagamichi rolled 5 using 2d6.  Initiative Red.

I'm assuming that Reyvak didn't pick the same spots for me to scan that I picked for him to scan right?  Otherwise that's going to be pretty easy...

In reply to Kusanagi Nagamichi (msg # 75):

Correct, an error of copy pasting, i believe everything on the thread is currently up to date and correct.

Some obvious notes on movement / Weapon Fire has been posted.

Rixx if you Win initiative, you may elect to make Kusa go first, or opt to go first yourself.  If you opt to go first, please post your movement with your die roll.

Whew... I suppose this test game really is needed, i feel like i'm typing up a tutorial for a video game on this end.  I think i have enough information for now.  Being veteran Btech players you should have a decent enough grasp and understanding to get by.  We just need Rixx to roll initiative now.

btw,
Kusa, Hope everything worked out with your wife?  As usual flesh and blood issue over virtual ones.

That said, sorta nice to slowly get into the groove of playing b tech again.  Forgive me for saying so, but not having to edit maps and post updates is a huge relief for me, so hopefully you guys can get by without map updates.  Making new mission maps to play on is about the limit of the graphic map work i would like to do this time around...

>.>
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:04, Fri 06 Dec 2019.

Cool.

Looks like the Cicada entry on the first post has the armour through long numbers of the Enforcer.

Yeah when you have mechs moving and shooting at the same time and going back and forth when it comes to maps it would be prohibitively difficult.  I've got it tossed into my photoshop to keep track and move things around.  We'll have to see how things go but I might be able to use the website I used for Amber Trumps to host maps and every time I get done with my 'side' movement and fire I could upload the new map as a small thumbnail sort of thing/link to the image to see the full size one.  All depends on time :)

As for the wife, yeah it went well even though there were unforeseen issues that turned a 20 minute visit into a two hour long one.  Ultimately they were resolved so all that is left for her is the swearing ceremony and she'll officially be a citizen come January.

Good catch, yeah i was working on the tables this afternoon and table work is always a bit of a pain, let me know if you see any other issues.

Yeah tables are a pain when you have a bunch of small numbers.  Really easy to slip.

Think OR, Short, Medium, Long are still Enforcer numbers.  Don't get me wrong if it was a PPC Cicada maybe but, lol.

Corrected.

The OR and Short were actually correct, though the Medium and Long are not.

It's got a +4 Over Run rating because it has two small lasers (6) each and a kick for 8.

6+6+8 ~> 20 / 5 = +4 OR bonus

(3) ML = 3 Short range damage

Yes there are only (2) SL and (2) ML mounted, but Solaris Rules state that they can all fire 'twice' in the span of battletech turn, so the number double... though the heat sinks do not, which is how you have 'three'  Medium lasers calculating to a 3 Short range.

---

Taking these weapon notes into account the Cicada and the Jenner have a lot in common.  The Cicada can take slightly more damage and the Jenner can jump, though the Jenner does have the option to seriously burst fire it's weapons and seriously go into heat doing so.  What ever it shot better be dead though, cause over heat rules are pretty brutal.
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:06, Fri 06 Dec 2019.

Your AMC hexes are off...

Unless there are (4) of my AMC's in 0505 and two sets of (3) of Blue Teams AMC's also in 0505.  For the time being in the map I made I put all (6) in the stockpile hex as a placeholder.  I made a map of sorts and uploaded it to Imgur...tossed a small thumbnail and a link to the larger size.  If it looks good great. :)
This message was last edited by the player at 04:52, Sat 07 Dec 2019.

Yes, my bad.

I had them listed on supply depots, and for some reason i read your depot his his for some reason when i was typing out stuff.

To my defense i was typing alot of stuff and more concerned with the rules i thought you might need to make a decent judgement of first moves and so forth.

>.<

ugh ~ just when i got motivated too....

I'll give him two more days, which would make a full week he's been offline, and then I'll fill in for him if he still hasn't shown.

>.<

I understand.

December has always been dodgy.  Same with June, for government workers, and August for students.

You know what, were' going to adapt the old battletech rule, that if you're not here to roll, you lose initiative.

I will fill in for him and 'move' absent players along every three days, so that we can start getting into something that appears to be a groove again.

So at this point (if Rixx doesn't appear to roll initiatve for himself by the time you respond), presume you have won initiative Kusanagi.  Do you want to move first or concede the first move to Rixx?
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:55, Tue 10 Dec 2019.

I'll give him till tonight to log in and roll cause I'm too busy at work to do this on my phone but...

With it now being a back and forth move + fire, swap sides move + fire...as long as I'm not reading it wrong...it behooves me to start off first even if the first few rounds is simply maneuvering.

Up to you, i don't think you're fast enough to get your guns in range, so it might be worth conceding the move, up to you though.

Rixx was sort of nice putting the scouting locations so close to you.

I need to figure out if the current scouting rules are too easy or hard.  They are suppose to be reasonable objectives to allow light/recon mechs to pull their weight on missions, but not TOO easy.

I may leave the mechanics alone, the way you've done it (not requiring 'non' movement), but allow that the hex being scanned might require more than one scan for success, and in a true scouting mission, there will be more locations to scan, perhaps 3~5.  I might mix such a mission with artillery support, so a TAG would make your life easier to call in accurate weapon fire to take out say, a gun emplacement (which would be shooting at scouts, and perhaps making it more attractive to scan at range).

On reflection of these thoughts, i think maybe being able to fully move and scan is fine.  The current scouting mission is as easy as it gets with no static defenses and only requiring one turn of scouting, though i think the 1 point score reflects it's ease of completion... well for hex 0505 at least.


I suppose I'll know after the mission is over.

---

Only one action, not even a full turn in, but your thoughts so far on the mechanics?
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:33, Wed 11 Dec 2019.

You could also make it so that mechs with scout or probe are allowed to move and scan while mechs without are required to be in the hex at the beginning of the round.

As for thought so far...

It seems to be working fine.  We’ll see more when we start to get into combat at the same time.

You dont have to be 'in' the hex, there is a range modifier to make it more difficult if you're doing it from range though.

ie, from one hex away the hex gains a +1 defense modifier.

I'm wondering if its too difficult to do, but then again you're using a green pilot?

IF they had no scout ability it would be 1 in 6, so even a skill-less green has a chance to do it.  So should be okay i think?

Yeah someone like the Crusader or Trebuchet, being veterans have a base 3 if they are on top or next to it when they scan.  4's if 2 hexes away and 5's if three.

So using that as a counterpoint...

Currently Nagamichi is three hexes from the scan point that Maxine tried to scan by running on top of.  He'd as a veteran need a 5 to scan the spot, same as a Green pilot with scouting technology, or should he bound forward next to the spot it becomes a 50/50.  If they had to not only do no weapons fire but also stand stationary that would make them real ripe targets.  Of course it's possible that because of range limitations it would be no real problem but we'll see.

Hm...

That is a significant difference from intent.

Originally 'Short' was 0 hex, 'Medium' was 1 hex, and 'Long' was 2 hex, and you could only do 3 hexes with a beagle probe.

I'm going to edit the rules for scouting to reflect this...


Added to scouting rules


There is a +0 range modifier at range 0
There is a +1 range modifier at range 1
There is a +2 range modifier at range 2*  (Can only be done with a Scout)
There is a +3 range modifier at range 3*  (Can only be done with a Beagle Probe)

Original rules from past campaigns had you being in or next to the objective.  A Probe increased range, and a scout was trained to look farther, so those gave you a bit of a range advantage.  So if you're not a scout you have the option of getting as close to a hex away to scout, where as for a dangerous target, a scout or something with a probe starts to look good to scout it from arms length.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:03, Wed 11 Dec 2019.

Looks like a good edit.

Gives advantages to scout mechs and ones even further advanced via probe and you can use a similar calculus if you end up having ECM as well...from penalties to next to impossible if you're in the same hex.

Yes.

My campaigns always had an element of electronic warfare in them, this is just a natural reflection of it.

The test game will serve as an example for all the rules.

Eventually I will make a formal thread for it all.

Like all my homebrewed campaigns, the rules are always being bent and tinkered with for improvements.  I know how things SHOULD work, just getting the rules all down on paper is the tough part cause they're in my head, and i forget what i've written, not written, or maybe written wrong...

>.<

One of the reasons to have me around since I’m good with mechanics.  :-)

Well, i happen to think i'm okay with them too.

:P

Of course you are otherwise you’d never even try this.  ;-P

Now that i dont know about, I've seem some people tinker with stuff who have no business trying and making messy stuff they think is cool with out a concept for play balance and how things should work..

*shudder*

Mission turn updated, not that it needs to be said, but you have till 12/15 to post something before i feel the urge to post something for you :P

Two days is a reasonable turn around time isnt it?  Three if it's over a weekend?
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:34, Fri 13 Dec 2019.

mmm... weekend, so I'll give it another day or so for you to post.

I was hoping Reyvak would show and make some commentary...

Since they haven't posted.

Checking the cast attendance, they havent showed up since 12/05, nearly ten days ago.

It is the holiday seasons, but i find it a little surprising for him to ask to start this and just vanish.

Hopefully everything is okay with him.  Still we both seem to be motivated to at least finish this test mission which will make it easier to showcase the rules to new comers, and then...maybe i'll think about asking for new players... say... to celebrate the impeachment of the corrupt dead weight on our democracy?  Sorry i shouldn't mix politics and gaming.

Yeah, Kusanagi, in a crusader, only needed a 4+ to make that scout check.

Being a Veteran really helps, mechwarrior skills are always pretty important in a campaign so that makes sense.  Now if it was a wooded hex with some cover now, that might have been a little harder.

^.^

I'll give Rixx till 12/18 to post, but i have to admit, i'm not feeling good from past performance ...

>.>
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:25, Sun 15 Dec 2019.

Impeach quite likely.  Convict far less likely.

Politics, Religion and Sports.  The big three things that can lead to bloodshed in our world.

I remember, if he is the same, Reyvak being really on the ball when he could be around but when he said he couldn’t he was ghost.

There are enough republicans behind him, that some one will (like nixon) probably offer him a pardon.  Really the only way to convict, is to hold off on the criminal conviction till after the presidential election where, a hopefully democrat president, won't pardon him for his BLATANT crimes... i mean... he doesnt even try to seriously hide it... or.. maybe he's just too dumb or arrogant to think he has to?

Well the issue is that the House will vote for impeachment, that's a forgone conclusion at this point in time.  Then in the Senate they actually have a number of options.  It's unlikely that they will convict him, which in turn removes him from office.  Then there is a secondary vote which if is passed means that he cannot run for office again, aka disqualification.  They could, improbably, convict and remove him from office, someone pardon him of any federal crimes, and then he could actually run again for the election in 2020 regardless.  That is only halted if they also disqualify him.  It's also highly likely that should there be any doubt whatsoever of him staying in the office, that he will step down before the official tenure ends allowing someone to pardon him before anyone else comes on it that could choose not to.

His issues comes in if he has committed any State crimes, and since the Pardon doesn't absolve him of any state level crimes he could be then charged and potentially go to trial with possible conviction.

His problem is he's dirty on so many levels, the only place that's 'safe' for him to avoid a prison sentence is to take refuge and seek asylum in Russia or North Korea.

Okay.

So i just got out of the shower, where, as you know, i do some of my most innovative house rules for gaming.

This one has to do with the use of Indirect fire for LRM troops...

First... these rules are intended to provide a tactical advantage, and provide flavor for the use of LRM's on a mech.
 (This is actually a working test to try out these rules, which if i'm stupid and start a proper battletech game, might go into use in a conventional game.)

Second... there are some conditions for these rules.

- You must have legal line of sight to your target.
 (ie.  There cant be three 'points' worth of trees in your way).

- Your target must be at Medium or Long Range.


Third (Optional reading)... the theory behind these rules is as follows...

- Precedence -
  A mech is considered 'Level 2'.
  A mech is considered capable of firing over Level 1 terrain, and is only affected by level one terrain, when the target is in, or next to, the terrain.

- Extrapolation
  A mech can 'see/sense/aim' over Level 2 terrain.
  A mech can not fire at things that they can see/sense, because most weapons are 'direct fire' and said terrain (say a level 2 building) will interfere with such weapon targeting.

  A mech armed with LRM's are not hindered by such terrain, because the weapons has an arc trajectory and fire 'over' such terrain.

Fouth... the actual ruling...
  Units with an 'LRM' rating, may use die up to this rating for Indirect Fire.
  Indirect fire to ignore the penalties from the first 'level two' terrain.
  (ie... the first level 2 tree ... or level 2 building will not interfere with indirect fire.)


Thoughts on this?  Not too convoluted?  I actually toyed with saying that it just ignored all level two terrain, but that seemed over power and not quite right...

(ie.  Three points of tree that are level 2 tall will block line of sight... so... just ignoring them seemed over powered, but ignoring the 'first' seemed reasonable?)
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:33, Tue 17 Dec 2019.

Hmm...

So normally when someone spots for a unit that can't see there is a +1 for being a Spotter, +X that is the walk/run/jump that they may have used and I think I saw in a recent errata that if that unit also fires in the round that it changes the Spotter mod to +2.  On top of all the Attackers mods (Movement, pilot damage, etc.) and the defensive movement and terrain between the target and the spotter.

Which was why it was rarely used until C3 came about and negated a whole host of issues.  And was just as funnily not part of the C3i system that the Blakists used...but they prolly just trusted in Blake to hit.

…

So we're ignoring the first level 2 artifact (trees, buildings, cliff face mostly hiding the mech) and all the additional issues of the spotter (which of course isn't so much a difficulty if it's an infantry unit hiding somewhere).

…

In the more cut down rules of this form of BattleTech I'm not sure if we can represent it well.  In a 'full scale' one I'd probably say that the level two terrain feature you ignore adds a +2 to hit (like another heavy woods) and then roll 3d6 take the lowest two for how many missiles actually hit.  You can do it but even if you are a crack pilot and do hit you just can't lock on missiles to land on target even if they do hit the target.

I dunno, i was just thinking about it, a mech like a Rifleman, might have that radar dish on top for seeing stuff, but cause it's guns are direct fire it cant fire through a level 2 buliding effectively.

So... if you had a mech, who has a targeting system use to trajectory combat from LRM weapon systems, being able to 'see' over a level two hill, should make it easier to fire at targets behind them?


ie.  A Urbanmech is foot slogging across the terrain and using two light trees as cover.  Mechs on the other side of the tree line can obviously see him.

Now... the Rifleman shoots at him, and has to fire through trees to hit the urbanmech.  Obviously each and every tree in the way is going to provide cover and be a problem for lasers and auto canons to fire through.

Now... the Crusader standing there, is taking the same shot.  He's using LRM fire.  Why on earth would he fire THROUGH the woods, when he can indirect fire them 'over' the wood?

The crusaders SEES you... Is there any reason he can't be a spotter for himself, and just fire over the woods to hit you directly?  The woods provide visual cover, but the missiles aren't going to have plow through two levels of light trees to hit the urban mech the way the rifleman has to.

So... for normal battletech, i was thinking, that a mech using LRM's could declare indirect fire for 'itself' acting as both fire support and spotter.  The penalty '1' spotting penalty can be the difficulty of spotting the target through soft cover to line up the indirect fire.

As noted, this doesnt come into effect if the target is NEXT to the terrain, because then the missiles are arcing 'down' by then and the tree and terrain at that point will be in the way of hitting them, in a manner similar to the rifleman's issues for firing through the trees.

I think this concept makes a lot of sense... is functionally more USEFUL for LRM mechs, is not a 'breaking' concept for play.... ie... LRM's were always a 'meh' weapon that was oversized for what they did.

ie... a LRM 15 and a PPC are both the same weight.  The LRM enjoys a slightly better range and requires less heat sinks but... suffers at short range, lesser damage (average of 8 to 10), dispersed damage (two locations as opposed to one), and  the issue of requiring ammo... ammo explosion... etc...

Really it has it's moment but a PPC is so much better....

This just provides a logical function they 'SHOULD' have and helps to level the playfield comparison to energy weapons.  They're still going to be pretty sucky, just... less so now.

This also only counts for mechs, not vehicles... which are level one, and i'm going to rule can't see 'high enough' to enjoy the same advantage mechs do...

This will help promote that whole myth about mechs being better than vehicles...

No, I get what you mean and it makes total sense.  They talk about it in fluff and you look at the models and virtually all of them that have LRM racks have them pointed slightly or greatly upwards unless they are Assault mechs that by fluff are so much larger than a light mech.

...but not large enough to make them go over the level 2 designation nor small enough to make them level 1 like vehicles.

The biggest gain would be every mech that is two hexes away from buildings or level 2 walls the normally block LOS.  The defensive quality is taken away and the LRM can rain down fire without the other mech even getting a shot in at all.

In reply to Kusanagi Nagamichi (msg # 111):

Which ... if you think about the weapon system, makes a huge amount of sense.

This only only be one wall though, in a city that's a maze, the extra buildings and stuff will block LOS like normal, consider it the chafe of terrain getting in the way block line of sight and stuff.

I'm debating about the concept of ignoring the building it DOES feel big, maybe too big.  A counter arguement could be made that this rule only works for things you have LOS with, and that building blocks LOS, so the only benefit would be to shoot through 'soft' targets like tree.

Which... if that tree you're ignoring is a level 2 tree, can be pretty big...

For BATTLETECH, i'm still toying with how to work out the rules, for 'this', i think what i have works okay, but yeah... the intent was to be walking along thinking you have full level 2 cover, and then being pelted by LRM fire...

LRM's start looking much more useful as an ambush weapon, which again... makes sense if you think about the weapon system.   If i ever run a full ruled b tech game, i'd like to tinker with this concept.

I mean, the scouting rules i worked out seem to work okay so i think this might too?
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:42, Tue 17 Dec 2019.

If you can fire past a building or wall that blocks LOS but not cause you can mark the target it would make sense that you could ignore the first 'woods' in a three wood hex in a row chain.

As stated... the three woods would keep the rule from being used, because you can't SEE your target.

The question is, what can you see and not see?

For the purposes of 'seeing' a target for LOS,, i would consider a building, heavy woods... at least?  So if it's just one building you can indirect over it, but if there is anything else, like another tree in the way, it's too messy and you can't see the target to indirect fire, and will need a spotter...

So what happens if it's a building and two light woods?

Or rather the question is why can you see past one LOS blocker like a building or wall but not an extra set of woods that block LOS.  Hence why it seems to make it simpler to say with LRM's you treat a level 2 building like a heavy woods...which with LRM's allows you to ignore as they fire up and above them before returning low and attacking the target.

To keep consistency, in ignoring that first one (building or heavy woods but treat them both the same mod to the shot in a extra +2) it makes it a lot easier to digest and apply without caveats.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:37, Tue 17 Dec 2019.

In the case of the building and two light woods, the building counts as a heavy wood, so that's already four points of woods in the way so you cant see the target, so you cant indirect fire on it without a third party spotter.

ie.  Rules as written state that you dont see stuff with three points of woods in the way.

So you would only get to ignore the first level 2, if you can actually detect them.

So in the case of 2 light trees and the building, you dont see the target...

Though really it's academic for real battle tech, this mech commander thing presumes you have six hexes of 'stuff' in the way, but that it's spread out enough so that only one or two actual trees are in the way.. or some such.

ie.  I'm tweaking the rules on level 2 buildings to treat them as 'heavy woods' for the purposes of determining LRM indirect fire, so if it's only one heavy wood (or level 2 building even?), you can ignore it, and fire as if it's not there, but when you add the second wood, it's too busy and you cant see it for weapon fire.
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:17, Wed 18 Dec 2019.

I suppose another way i can ask about this is, if you understand the concept, how do you think the rule should be written?

I'm not sure yet hence why I ask questions about particular scenarios to see what your take on things are.

Like many things to see if it;s good or bad it needs to be tested in actual gameplay.  See if it breaks something unexpectedly or does little to affect the play style.  Like I was reading that in one of the more recent Cons where they were playing Battletech they have been tinkering with the concept of the woods you are in affects your firing as the attacker as well as those targeting you under the principle that they didn't like how everyone was jumping from heavy woods to heavy woods using it for extra cover to make it just as hard for people to hit them as the jumping impeded them hitting others in the open.

Well this is just the crucible of the two of us working stuff out, there is no rush on any of this, especially since were not playing proper B Tech.

I was just thinking about this, because i was trying to work out the game effects for SRMs, LRMs, and overheat attributes for mechs.

Okay... so i just spoke to a friend about this...

Here are the clear and simple rules.

LRMs can use 'indirect fire' which can ignore the effects of terrain provide as cover, by firing 'over them'.

---

LRMs can be fired normally.  If you see the target without obstruction you can just shoot them normally like any other weapon.

If you want to indirect fire them over terrain that provides cover, but does not break line of sight (like (2) light trees), you can fire 'spot for yourself' and fire over the trees, taking the standard +1 penalty for indirect weapon fire.

If you want to indirect fire on something you cant normally 'see', say through three trees or over a building, take an additional penalty for the indirect weapon fire.  While you can't 'see' the mech, you are suppose to have other ways to locate the mech, otherwise the entire game would be a fog of war, and you wont know where your opponent is for movement purposes.  (What this penalty is... was never stated, but i"m thinking the night time penalty, which presumes you cant see your target, and force you to rely on non-visual senors would be a fair penalty?)


Thoughts?

Let's play it and see how it feels.

That sort of thing feels more like an advantage that you'd pick up in your closer to normal battltech system rather than this limited to 3 hex range system.

Hell it gets me feeling like something similarly can be done with Ballistics and Energy:

I know this guy is on the other end of this 20CF light building that's 2 stories tall but I can't see him directly.  Hmm...well they should be right...*squeezes trigger and takes the same penalty as missile indirect using self-targeting.  The building erupts as the AC/20 slug tears into it -loosing 2 damage- and then blows out the back side -loosing 2 damage- and slams into the mechs head blowing it off with 16 points of damage*  Nice chalk up another kill!

They do it in movies all the time.

I'm going to throw a flag down on the field for now, since it's the holidays.

Give RIxx a chance to come back on, and let you relax and enjoy the holidays instead of mucking around here.

That said i'm getting ready to go to my in laws at the moment, i PLAN to post something soon, if i forget poke me after xmas to do something?

(hugs)

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

I'm not going anywhere for Christmas and New Years, only after for Eastern Orthodox Christmas on the 7th of January.  So if you do post I will be around and if you don't as the year wraps up I'll poke in here to remind you.

*hugs*

Happy Holidays to you too Snowy :D

Posted an update, looks like Rixx was on but hasn't commented.

Hopefully just busy with the holidays, though... if he's not interested, hopefully he'll say as much to resolve the uncertainty about his situation.

Happy Holidays all...

Does anyone know anything about Pathfinder 2e?  Is it radically different from 1e?

Happy Holidays to you too.

Nah, haven't played it.  I poked around the 2nd ed prd but it looked more like the adjustment between 2nd ed D&D and 3rd ed D&D.  Similarities but lots of differences.

at least it's like like 4th ed which was unrecognizable.

So, it's been nearly a week since he's bothered to look at the forum, and getting on to a month since he's bothered to post anything so i'm going to put him off on inactive for now, at least until he posts something so we know he has a pulse.

That pretty much means i'll post for his side nearly immediately, to keep things moving along, instead of waiting 2 days now.

The mission should move much quicker without the 3 plus days wait between notes.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:06, Mon 30 Dec 2019.

Sorry for my quiet.

Had a lot more on my plate managing in-laws living with us post Christmas to New Years and then back around to my Eastern Orthodox mother who just had Christmas yesterday (they go by the Julian Calendar).  I should have a post up tonight.

No worries, glad to hear from you again, figured it was the holidays or something, truth i've been sort of busy too so no worries.

Well first exchange of fire and all misses.

Only thing that feels off after that first shot is that a Trebuchet just fired 2 LRM15's at a group of vehicles at Long Range and next time the AMC's move it's the same as if they moved from anywhere between 14-21 hexes away from the Trebuchet to right next to it for their MG's to be in short range.

Don't know what to think of that perspective yet.

Take your time, no need to move quickly.  I've got to do Orthodox Christmas at my parents this weekend (can't drive out there during the weekday but weekend...lol), get ready for the wife to go to her swearing ceremony for her citizenship on the 16th next week and whatever celebrations we'll be doing on the long weekend...taking thursday and friday off so we can do something but don't know what yet.

MGs are range 'zero' over run/physical attack weapons.  They don't tribute damage unless you're in the same hex as the target.

These AMC's are armed with (2) SRM2's , so it's not terribly impossible for them to move at flank speed and close with a Trebuchet with SRMs ?

In BTech you would be Base 3, Run +2, Target Def Modifier +3, Long range +4, so you would need like 12's, 1 in 36.  Considering the table only asked for 6's (I think?) that's only 1 in 6.  So the table evens out the bell curve of probability a little, which makes for a faster game since that's where most of the die rolls are calculated.

Thumb typing as i wait for train so can't post just yet.
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:13, Sat 18 Jan 2020.

Right.  Enough Messing around, time to get started.

I have your first mission lined up, a pretty simple Recon in Force mission.

No Enemy Mechs ...

The Goal is to breeze through them, do your recon, and leave.

You may select the Mechs and their mech warrior pilots to use in this mission.

Post any questions you have regarding the mission, here.

Okay,

Going to put up the flag of surrender and call it a day for this campaign.

Time to close the bookkeeping on this so i can look at other things more seriously.

Not a failed experiment, since i've learned some stuff but not ready to continue at this point if there isn't interest to support it.