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Keyword Discussion - Take 2.

Posted by ShannaraFor group 0
Eggy
player, 11 posts
Sun 8 Jan 2017
at 09:09
  • msg #86

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

I looked at the State of Keywords thread. Started off in the Female Modern section. This is something I've wondered for awhile, pardon if it's been asked in another thread: What is the distinction between FMB, FMC, FMG and FMR? Or what was the original intent? There seems to be a lot of crossover.


Just on first glance of the first page of FMB, some are obviously in scrubs, suits or a uniform. Others, I think I'd have to be familiar with that particular character/image or the uniform. For instance, the very first image is of Jennifer Aniston in Office Space. I recognize the actress and the kitchsy sort of waitress uniform. What if instead of Business, the entire category was changed to Profession or Carreer? Then the tags could be related to the real-world professions gleaned from the image. Keywords would relate to the profession/career path in addition to appearance: Medical/Science, Nun, Corporate (to round up all those ladies in power suits), Dancer. Telemarketer. I haven't gone through it all, but these are the ones that jump out. Then we could sort out Commander Ivanova, Sir Integra Wingates Hellsing, Emma Frost. Creating new categories would find home for these ladies whose career paths are not quite yet attainable.

FMS seems to be well sorted (perhaps a couple outliers). Those images could join Female Modern Profession (if they are of modern military images).

Thoughts?
This message was last edited by the player at 09:10, Sun 08 Jan 2017.
jase
GM, 72 posts
Sun 8 Jan 2017
at 09:46
  • msg #87

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Plaits/Braids - Check.  Plait(s)/Braid(s)?  Getting too complex?

Pigtails - I disagree they're braids, or are normally braided.  Can be, but not necessarily.  http://rpol.creativelass.net/fcm107.jpg, http://rpol.creativelass.net/fmb349.jpg and http://rpol.creativelass.net/fmb543.jpghttp://rpol.creativelass.net/fh19001.jpg would be pigtails and braided.  They're from searching for "pigtails".  So 75% not braided.

Ponytail - ?

Corset/Bustier - Check.

Mask/Veil - Either combo or separate, but will be added in one way or another (will wait on more feedback before deciding).

Shield - Add to equipment.

Handband - To be added.  Maybe as "Head Band/Scarf"?

Helm - Have suggested Helmet under attire, one and the same really?  "Helm(et)"?

Crown/Circlet - Could add that as well.  Have we encountered enough to make it worthwhile?

That's something I should mentioned, my suggestions in message 82 were after doing a few hundred portraits.  I kept on encountering a practical need for my suggestions.  I'd rather we add in keywords that we have a demonstrated need for, not a theoretical nice to have.  No point, for example, having shield as an option if we've only got 2 portraits with a shield.

Happy to theorise a few extra keywords that are obvious, but otherwise I'd rather we look at keywords you've encountered a practical need for rather than more stuff we dream up with our own personal bias.

Eggy, as for FMB, FMC, FMG and FMR etc, that's just the categories whoever was putting them in at the time thought they should go.  Really has zero bearing over the keywords, though most of those should end up being female, and fairly modern!  Could think of it as batch1, batch2, batch3 etc.

As for the original intent, it was so long ago those particular stone tablets have crumbled to dust, but it obviously seemed a fairly logical division at the time.  Whatever the reason that's what we've inherited now, and with the gallery now being so huge we really need to rely on keyword searches, rather than some loose group, to find our portraits.  That's where you all come in!

If your asking which section a modern portrait should be put in then (A) wrong thread, this is about keywords and (B) just ask yourself, is this business attire?  Then FMB.  Casual?  FMC.  Etc.  Judgement call really and as long as it's not blatantly incorrect then nothing to worry about.
Eggy
player, 12 posts
Sun 8 Jan 2017
at 10:17
  • msg #88

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Thanks! I'll be back with suggestions for the group.
Evil Empryss
player, 22 posts
Sun 8 Jan 2017
at 12:20
  • msg #89

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

jase:
That's something I should mentioned, my suggestions in message 82 were after doing a few hundred portraits.  I kept on encountering a practical need for my suggestions.  I'd rather we add in keywords that we have a demonstrated need for, not a theoretical nice to have.  No point, for example, having shield as an option if we've only got 2 portraits with a shield.

I've only been suggesting keywords for things I've seen a lot of in my time digging thru the gallery for character pics. Granted, I tend to focus primarily upon female portraits, but I've seen plenty of my suggestions to make the tags worthwhile.

Ponytail: oops, forgot to respond on that one. I like it and have seen plenty.

Pigtails: you have convinced me, sir.

Culturally-inclusive question: should Hijab be included with Headscarf and Niqab with Veil?  There are at least three portraits I encountered yesterday in the ffr gallery alone that fit the standards for them.

Headband/Headscarf/Hijab?  That would pretty much cover everything fabric-y that goes on someone's head.

Mask/Veil/Niqab would do the same for face coverings.
Eggy
player, 13 posts
Sun 8 Jan 2017
at 12:28
  • msg #90

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Evil Empryss:
Culturally-inclusive question: should Hijab be included with Headscarf and Niqab with Veil?  There are at least three portraits I encountered yesterday in the ffr gallery alone that fit the standards for them.

Headband/Headscarf/Hijab?  That would pretty much cover everything fabric-y that goes on someone's head.

Mask/Veil/Niqab would do the same for face coverings.

I agree with Hijab going with scarves and headbands as well as Niqab going along with veil and mask. A portrait I saw (found it! fmb685) could be a Chador, but since it was a close up of a face, it was hard to tell. That could go under Niqab/Veil/Mask, too.

One thing I don't agree with is the options being soley under Female > Fantasy. The portraits I saw were under Female > Modern.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:34, Sun 08 Jan 2017.
Evil Empryss
player, 23 posts
Sun 8 Jan 2017
at 12:44
  • msg #91

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

I think that headscarf/hijab functionally covers the chador as there are so many different styles for it (just over the head with some hair showing, all hair covered but no throat covering, or even all hair and all skin to the shoulders covered).  That, and unless it is more than just a face view it would be hard for most to tell the difference between a hijab and a chador. Actually, it could be argued that a chador might fit better with the cloak section, since it is predominately a body covering that happens to be draped over the head as well. The women I know that wear them always have a hijab under the chador to cover their hair.

And I wasn't saying that the options were only or should be only under fantasy, just that fantasy rogues  was the gallery I happened to be looking in last night when I saw them.
Eggy
player, 14 posts
Sun 8 Jan 2017
at 13:14
  • msg #92

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

I've found this portrait under Female > Fantasy > Rogue.

I agree with Chadors going along with Cloaks if they are fully visible. This why I asked about the categories. Is everyone in a cloak going under Rogue?
Evil Empryss
player, 24 posts
Sun 8 Jan 2017
at 13:37
  • msg #93

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

I think you're confusing tags with categories.  Any pic in any category can get a cloak tag if the pic warrants it.  Or do you mean to say that cloaks should be in attire?
Evil Empryss
player, 25 posts
Sun 8 Jan 2017
at 13:42
  • msg #94

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Oh!  Are you asking if every pic with a cloak should be categorized as a fantasy rogue when we sort them to different galleries?  Heck no!  There are plenty of styles of cloaks that would fit other categories. It is the general feel of the pic as a whole that should determine which category it fits into.

But like jase said, we're talking keywords/tags in this thread, not categories. :-)
Eggy
player, 15 posts
Sun 8 Jan 2017
at 13:56
  • msg #95

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

In reply to Evil Empryss (msg # 94):

Oh thank you! I'd missed that part of Jase's post. I'll stick to the topic from here on out. There's a thread on Categories. It's pretty old, but I'll bump it up so I can keep from contaminating this thread.
jase
GM, 75 posts
Mon 9 Jan 2017
at 02:21
  • msg #96

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Keywords apply to every portrait, there's no distinction.  You have to forget categories when thinking about keywords.

So (I think) we now have;

Hair Length/Style
  • Currently:  Short | Medium/Bob | Long | Bald | Cropped | Spiked | Curls/Perm | Mohawk
  • Add:  Bun/Tied Up | Plait/Braid | Pigtails | Ponytail |


Attire
  • Currently:  Dress | Suit | Shirt | T-Shirt | Armour | None Visible | Bikini/Bathing Suit | Costume | Gown | Coat/Cloak | Hat/Cap | Hood | Turban | Mask | Scarf | Leather Armour | Metallic Armour
  • Change:  Mask -> Mask/Veil/Niqab
  • Add:  Headband/Headscarf/Hijab | Helmet | Strapless Top | Necklace | Choker | Corset/Bustier
Note:  Is there some way we can get rid of the plain "armour" option?  Maybe "Armour (Leather)", "Armour (Metallic)", "Armour (Other)"?


Phsyical Traits
  • Currently:  Piercings | Mustache | Beard | Tattoo | Eye Patch | Glasses | Wings
  • Change:  Piercings -> Piercings (Other)
  • Add:  Piercings (Earring(s))


Equipment and Accompaniments
  • Currently:  Sword | Gun | Bow | Staff | Weapon (Other) | Cigar/Cigarettes | Shield
  • Add:  Mace | (Battle)Axe | Hammer | Crossbow | Dagger(s)/Shortsword(s) | Blade (Other) | Blunt (Other) | Ranged (Other)
  • Remove:  Weapon (Other)



One thing I'm not sure on is "Mask/Veil/Niqab" and "Headband/Headscarf/Hijab".  While I don't want to be culturally insensitive these are getting a little long and is it adding further clarification by having them?  There's possibly more variations (of mask, veil and headscarf) that we haven't even touched on yet, if we really want to be culturally inclusive we would have a very long list.

Slippery slope.  Does my Armour (Metallic) now become "Armour (Metallic)/Tankō/Keikō"?  Wouldn't want to leave out our Oriental cousins!

I know I can seem a naysayer, but I put my own suggestions through the same wringer.  We need to make sure what we're adding in actually adds in value.  You could easily reply with "Well a hijab covers the head and shoulders, so would it be headscarf or scarf, or both?  I think it's sufficiently unique to require it's own mention".  I want to discuss, not exert my will!

Btw, remember we have the free text entry.
Skald
player, 8 posts
Mon 9 Jan 2017
at 14:28
  • msg #97

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Personally ... quite agree, we're not really trying to go all thesaurus here and find every variation on a theme.  So for my 5.5 cents, stick with Mask/Veil and Headscarf (I wouldn't even bother with headband - given the medium, it'd probably be more useful to specify Hat, pointy for all the wizards out there ! <grins> ).

Armour ... again, yes, I do like the idea of Armour | Leather Armour | Metallic Armour becoming Armour (leather), Armour (metal) and Armour (other) ... though I still think of armour as equipment and the rest of the attire as clothing (ok, it's becoming a fine line with scarf etc).  My definition would be "can you buy it in a clothing store", now I think on it, which would keep Veil in but move Mask to equipment.

I do believe that you can get earrings that clip on ... so I'd prefer to see Piercings and Earrings as separate tags.

Oh, I probably am a naysayer.  Just forewarnin' you ... ;>
Grimmond
player, 12 posts
Mon 9 Jan 2017
at 19:22
  • msg #98

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

We should add "Uniform" to the list. Most of the soldiers and 19th / 17th century portraits wear uniforms.
Mad Mick
player, 1 post
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 04:03
  • msg #99

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

While this is being updated, can you change "Phsyical Traits" to "Physical Traits"?  =)
jase
GM, 76 posts
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 06:50
  • msg #100

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Skald:
I do believe that you can get earrings that clip on ... so I'd prefer to see Piercings and Earrings as separate tags.

Agreed, but I dare you to tell from any of our portraits.  (c;

Just seems cleaner having Piercings (Earring) and Piercings (Other) as it's two distinct (and mutually exclusive) options.  Otherwise are pierced earrings supposed to tick both earring and piercings?


Grimmond:
We should add "Uniform" to the list. Most of the soldiers and 19th / 17th century portraits wear uniforms.

No objections from me!  Do we need more granularity?


In reply to Mad Mick (msg # 99):

Wow, nobody's picked that up until now.  Tisk tisk!  (c;
Skald
player, 9 posts
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 13:47
  • msg #101

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

jase:
Agreed, but I dare you to tell from any of our portraits.  (c;

<grins> good point.  :>

I guess that while earrings are piercings, there's a whole world of difference between an ear piercing and any other kind - I'd regard the first is a fashion statement, the second as a lifestyle choice.   I see the word piercing and I think metal studs, I see the word earring and I think accessory.  Ear piercings to me says additional studs though the ear, but not earring.

So I'd figure it'd be clear enough to just tick earring if the picture shows earrings, without regard to whether they're piercings or not.

But having neither earrings nor piercings myself, there's a chance I don't know what I'm talking about. <grins>

Uniform is definitely a good idea.  I guess the question jase is asking is whether that should be maybe Uniform (Military), Uniform (Police/Fire), Uniform (Other) ?
Morgan Coldsoul
player, 18 posts
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 20:47
  • msg #102

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

What about a "scar" or "scar/eyepatch" keyword? I know there are some portraits that feature that, but I don't know for certain whether there are enough to warrant it. I just know I've hunted deliberately, once or twice, to find portraits for, like, one-eyed characters and similar. Does anyone think that would be helpful?
jase
GM, 77 posts
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 01:00
  • msg #103

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Skald:
I guess the question jase is asking is whether that should be maybe Uniform (Military), Uniform (Police/Fire), Uniform (Other) ?

I guess I am!  Now that I see it listed out like that I think "Uniform" would be enough.

Morgan Coldsoul:
What about a "scar" or "scar/eyepatch" keyword? I know there are some portraits that feature that, but I don't know for certain whether there are enough to warrant it. I just know I've hunted deliberately, once or twice, to find portraits for, like, one-eyed characters and similar. Does anyone think that would be helpful?

Eye patch is already under physical traits, so that's definitely a good idea!

Not sure about scars, are there that many?  If not then just put "scar" in the text entry.
Morgan Coldsoul
player, 19 posts
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 01:04
  • msg #104

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

That's what I meant: Since I'm not sure how many there are, if there are a relatively small number it might be better to just make the category "scar/eyepatch" rather than adding "scar." I know there are some, I just don't know about the proportion relative to the total number of portraits. I'll have to browse for an estimate.
jase
GM, 78 posts
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 09:52
  • msg #105

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

"Scar" I'd imagine would be pretty rare.  What I'd suggest is this; just put it in as part of the free-text entry.  We can search for that later and if there's a lot of hits we can make it a defined (checkbox) option.  If it's few we can leave it as-is.
Grimmond
player, 34 posts
Sun 26 Mar 2017
at 01:07
  • msg #106

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

We need to add wrestles to the catagories. We have a BUNCH of them.
Mad Mick
player, 2 posts
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 05:24
  • msg #107

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

How do the categories look right now as far as tags go?  Which categories need tagging?
Grimmond
player, 90 posts
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 07:48
  • msg #108

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

The problem with adding new TAGS is we would want to re-organize the old images ... so take WRESTLERS as a new tag.

There are two dozen old wrestlers in the old SI-FI HUMAN tag. Moving them to WRESTLERS HUMAN would make those images in peoples games disappear.
Mad Mick
player, 3 posts
Wed 3 Jan 2018
at 08:34
  • msg #109

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

So hold off on tagging for now?

I never did much tagging, but I was going through the Male Historical 19th century once upon a time.
Grimmond
player, 92 posts
Wed 3 Jan 2018
at 16:56
  • msg #110

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Jace is probably right. Tag everything now and they will search easier but leave the old files as we really can't do anything with them as it would disrupt old games and images.
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