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Keyword Discussion - Take 2.

Posted by ShannaraFor group 0
Shannara
GM, 294 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2009
at 11:07
  • msg #1

Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Okay, looks like we're ready to get going on keywords again -- for ease of use, I'm opening up a thread, and will copy some of the relevant posts from PM.
jase
player, 38 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2009
at 11:08
  • msg #2

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

jase:
http://beta.rpol.net/test/portest2.html is pretty close to reality.  Keyword searching can actually be seen by selecting a portrait in a game over on the beta site.

Tagging input is pretty similar, just ignore the and/or selection and the exclude column and that's pretty much how it looks.

Free text entry isn't implement yet, however.


To start it off:

As much as I liked the series, is "Alian (Babylon 5)" really justified?

Alhaja
player, 2 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2009
at 11:09
  • msg #3

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Alhaja:
Let's see... Here's some thoughts...

What about adding a fourth age category? Considering how common games featuring teens are, it might make more sense to have that category, rather than trying to decide if any given picture should go in "Young" or "Adult." I know that as it is I'll end up searching both when I want to make a character that age. Though it might be fine to leave it as you have it if the categories are well-defined.

How about a "Purple" hair category? "Silver?" Or maybe just a "Miscellaneous" one? At some point, categorizing anything but natural hair colors becomes an exercise in adding unnecessary categories.

Why not just "Curls" rather than "Curls/Perm?"

To get, briefly and inexpertly, into anthropological theory, I'm not sure "Ethnicity" is the best word for the categories you've got now. Those are largely "racial" categories (though anthropologists really dislike the word "race").

Where would a Mexican or South American character go? Many of them have both European and native ancestors to varying degrees. "American Indian" would likely be considered technically correct for some of them (though it's definitely not common usage in North America to refer to South American indigenous groups by that term) and "Caucasian" for others. I'd consider adding a category, probably "Hispanic." This is very much more an "ethnic" category than a "racial" category, though. The US Census asks for both, so someone of European descent would pick White/Caucasian and then they'd also pick "Hispanic origin" or "not of Hispanic origin."

What about the Middle East or India? Racially they'd likely fall into the "Caucasian" group but they're very culturally different from people descended from European cultures -- definitely a different ethnicity.

And, from a totally different viewpoint, how visually distinct would an African and an Australian Aborigine be to the average user?

jase
player, 39 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2009
at 11:09
  • msg #4

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

jase:
The way I've done it is we can have;

256 "Criteria" (that is, the rows; Kingdom, Gender, Age).
256 predefined "keywords" per criteria.

I'm not advising we should go anywhere near that amount, but that's the smallest amount I can store in mySQL, so there it is.

Adding more criteria and keywords is not a problem, either now or in the future.  Removing or changing now is fine but not really advisable in the future.

So we can easily change stuff around now, I've only put an hour or two into the current tags so it's not a drama if we have to completely redo them.

From my school of thought we shouldn't hesitate to add another keyword if it has fairly clear boundaries and it'll be reasonably well used (roughly say in at least 5% of images?).

So, I don't see why we shouldn't have a lot of colours for hair.  It's pretty obvious if something's green or blue.  Pink and red might be a bit 'iffy', but so's black and brown.

On the other hand ages can be very subjective.  No point having "very young", "young", "early teens", "mid teens", "late teens" as you're just going to find that most of the young portraits are tagged with 3 or 4 of each.  That's not to say that age doesn't require a bit of tweaking, I think it does.

Lastly, "miscellaneous" or "other" isn't necessary, if it's not any of the available keywords then don't tag it when any, it doesn't have to be tagged.  If someone wants some strange hair colour that's not on the list then they can exclude the ones they don't want, that's what the exclusion is there for.


As for a manga gallery, let's stick to the topic at hand?

Shannara
GM, 295 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2009
at 11:10
  • msg #5

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Shannara:
Some suggested additions:



Kingdom: Bird, Insect, Amphibian, (Do we really need 'mineral' in there?)

Hair Color: Dyed (for those looking for the bright colors)

Hair Length: Braids, Up, Pony-tail

Race: Anthro, Angel, Winged Human/Humanoid, Vampire, fairy

Ethnicity: Hispanic, blue, green, purple, red (for all our non-natural skin toned portraits)

Attire: Robes, Hood, Hat, Jewelry, Mask, glasses, helm/helmet, coat/cloak  (I'd rather like 'none' taken out, as we have no nudes (though not for some people's lack of trying) and n/a means don't check anything)

Medium: Maybe add 'Anime'

Possibly add another catch-all category for some common themes:  sword, gun, bow, staff, other weapon, piercings, cigar/cigarette, mustache, beard, tattoo

What about expression - smiling, scowling, glaring, happy, calm  (just a suggestion) :P

Okay, that's all I can think of at the moment

Shannara
GM, 296 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2009
at 11:16
  • msg #6

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

By the way, as far as the Alien question goes, I'd like to see it generalized a bit, especially if I'm (one of the ones) going to be doing keywords as portraits are submitted.

Alien (TV Series), Alien (movie) or something of the sort might be better, as I'm not likely to recognize some of the specifics, though we might handle that by asking for a volunteer to help with keywords every update cycle (but it would really need to be someone willing to stick with it through the long haul).
Shannara
GM, 297 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2009
at 11:35
  • msg #7

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Another suggested addition to attire:

gown, bathing suit
jase
player, 40 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2009
at 12:35
  • msg #8

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Agreed regarding new Kingdom keywords.  And as for mineral, if you don't think there's any in the gallery then we should remove it.

One tweak for Kingdom I might suggest is change "Animal" to "Animal (non-sentient)", or something to indicate an animal that doesn't have a tick under "Race"?

Rename "Hair Length" to "Hair Length/Style".

Add "Facial and Head Adornments" (or some such spiffy wording):  piercings, cigar/cigarette, mustache, beard, tattoo, eye patch, hat/cap, hood, mask, glasses, scarf..

Add "Equipment and accompaniments":  sword, gun, bow, staff, weapon (other), wings, coat/cloak

Expression is an interesting one.  Maybe even "Expression/demeanour"?

(You may notice I've taken your suggestions and twisted them to my nefarious needs.)

Not sure if "anime" is a medium, but it doesn't seem to fit in elsewhere.

I don't think splitting Alien into TV or movie is a good idea, some have been on both.  Surely portrait submissions would request the relevant keywords to now accompany the file?


We could even go crazy and have "more than 2": eyes, ears, arms, legs.  Or "non-standard number of", then we could add heads, noses...
Shannara
GM, 298 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2009
at 13:34
  • msg #9

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

jase:
Surely portrait submissions would request the relevant keywords to now accompany the file?


Request, yes.

That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be 1) provided or 2) correct. ;)
bigbadron
player, 1 post
Tue 7 Apr 2009
at 15:39
  • msg #10

Re: Keyword Discussion - Take 2

Regarding the "Mineral" keyword, there are a few Earth creatures in the galleries.  However, it might serve better if it was changed to "Elemental", as it would then cover a wider range of portraits.  For example:

http://rpol.creativelass.net/ncm090.jpg
http://rpol.creativelass.net/ncm192.jpg
http://rpol.creativelass.net/ncm225.jpg
http://rpol.creativelass.net/ncm240.jpg
http://rpol.creativelass.net/ncm258.jpg
http://rpol.creativelass.net/ncm404.jpg
http://rpolportraits.shannara-rose.com/mcm146.jpg
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