As long as you are the owner you have the equivalent of four marks and can do anything that requires fewer marks, such as being an admin at three marks.

If you are not the owner then you either need to be given that access via invite mark or take it illegally. SR5 like the edition before it and after is set up to encourage one to stay over long in the matrix. It's designed for game play from a certain standpoint which has little to do with legal access or the hours one would put in as an employed host operator.

Legally transferring something is likely able to be done via some form of registration with the producer or other similar vendor. Which is not something that the game takes into account because as runners you don't want to leave a trail.

Marks can left on a system but they don't last. That was a design choice for play which you get though I've run into a number of players who usually don't. If players/gms keep that in mind when looking at Shadowrun and most other RPGs, choices were made based on making the game playable and less about how close it is to things now, unless it is a SIM RPG. Approaching it by trying to look at the real world is a good way to start wanting to pull your hair out. ;-)



Which edition of M&M? I've played third, a bit but its been a few years, so things are a tad foggy, and used a bit of 2nd as background as it is easy to convert forward.

There are some things that were removed from earlier editions in 4th and then 5th which I miss but from an integrated play perspective it is still the best even at a table once you understand the flow of play was designed to be able to jump between the three (Magic, Mundane, and Matrix as I like to call it.), especially in combat. Familiarity definitely helps with speed but that is true of any system.

For a PbP it rocks because you can bring back some of the bits about the matrix that was removed so a player is running around in the Host experiencing it as it's own world and it doesn't slow down the speed of play. Furthermore if you can arrange for the GM and the player to set aside a specific time period on a day, you can post through an entire run in short order without really holding up the rest of the game if it is something they are doing before the main part of the run. But even without that it can move fairly quickly and maintain pace with the rest of the team pending the rhythm and pacing of the over all posting from everyone.

Marks
Marks last as long as you want them to (legal marks given by the owner). You select how long that is at the point you give them. Or anyway until someone else with the permissions to remove them, removes them.

M&M3
Afflictions have exactly the equivalent of marks. It's even 'three' of them. As you start to fail you take penalties until you fail the third level when basically you are usually defeated. Slight differences are that if you fail really badly you can get more than one 'mark' in M&M3, which doesn't happen in SR5

So for example if you are hit for 'control mind' and fail you might be entranced. If you have a level 2 fail you might be 'controlled' and a level 3 would be 'totally dominated'. This is probably the best 'save or suck' system I've seen in any game. Works well 'players vs mooks', works OK 'players versus bosses' and works OK 'badguys vs players'. 'Works OK' for a save or suck system is meant to be high praise.

SR5 Matrix
I pretty much agree with that view. I like the mundane/magic/matrix... in earlier editions while mundane/magic were often in sync, it always felt to me that the matrix was out of sync with the rest of the game (here I am talking about timing/flow/pacing / ease of play)

Shadowrun 6e talks about mages pressing through a mana barrier and taking some of their spirits with them based on net hits. What if the spirit itself tries to press through? Could the mage just have his spirits press through on their own?

I'm assuming it's like other shadowrun editions. It would probably take a service for you to command them to do that

In reply to Logan Turman (msg # 17):

If the mage orders them then it would be a service.  If it is a spirit doing it on its own then it could try and pass through like anyone else.

Okay, so I've been mulling it over lately...and I'm talking about 5th edition.

I was trying to come up with a way to make Direct Damage (Combat) spells more lethal (like they should be) and I came to the conclusion that it might work more that way if you treat those spells the same way that you do firearms, only there's no armor for spells.

Thoughts?

witness my hate merit +2dv +2 drain.

"only there's no armor for spells."
Physical DD spells dont get armor to resist anyway so that not a change. so no idea what your asking here?
This message was last edited by the player at 02:50, Fri 09 Feb.

Direct spells are terrifying not because they have a good damage/drain ratio, but because of how they target.  And they do actually have a good damage/drain ratio against heavily armored targets because they ignore the armor.  That's effectively AP -infinity.  No, the thing that makes them scary is that they just need line of sight not line of effect (To borrow a term from D&D).  You can bounce them off mirrors, send them through fiber optic cables (Magesight goggles work this way), cast through a 10,000x power telescope, etc...

As long as a photon can make it from your target to your eye, you can hit them with a Direct spell.  This is terrifying.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:26, Fri 09 Feb.

In reply to Rathmun (msg # 22):

And you'll still be lucky if you get 4 boxes of damage.

What I call the "last resort" went from tossing a max force Manaball and hoping that the drain doesn't kill you (and assuming someone in the party survives) to summon a high force spirit.  The whole geek the mage comes from the fact that they can toss a single spell that can wipe out an entire squad.

If you're getting one box of damage while your opponents get none, then as long as you can keep doing that, you win.

If you want damage quickly, use Indirect.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:22, Fri 09 Feb.

In reply to Hunter (msg # 23):

That is the trade off. Low damage lie defense. Higher damage higher defense.    It is to help prevent things like sleep spell in first edition killing everyone on the first action

In SR4, Direct Damage Combat spells did Force + Net Hits, but that is just too nasty since the caster can be rolling a whole lot of dice, and can add Edge if they are feeling particularly nasty, while the target rolls Body or Willpower to resis. If they are lucky, they get some Counterspell dice if they have a mage of their own on magic overwatch. Even in SR5 where it's only Net Hits, the caster's dice pool will be higher than the target's Body or Willpower, so they will get hits and cause damage.

Then it becomes a simple matter of Logic. Some vat job meta or almost any troll? Hit them with a Manabolt because their Willpower likely sucks compared to their body. Mage or Decker? Hit them with a Powerbolt because they likely don't eat their Wheaties.

But also remember that we have mages with countermagic. (I haven't checked but in earlier editions they would give you extra die to resist with). And there are defences: spells, wards etc.

Sucks if you are purely mundane without a wizard friend... but it also sucks if you aren't good at computers without a decker friend, or bad at fighting without a street samurai/physical adept friend.

The statement 'do a 'single point of damage without taking drain being valuable' I don't really agree with. The action economy is how you win. Force concentration resolves conflict. 'zapping them a bit at a time' alerts them, calls for reinforcements, and so on. Sure there may be places where that matters, but I can't think of many in the games I've played in. What matters normally is 'how quickly can we take the bad guys down and can we do it without noise. And ideally without killing them to avoid nasty followup'. Usually we use a street samurai for that, or a physical adept, or a 'save or suck spell' because they are just better at it

Other people's experiences can vary of course

And I share the view that SR5 is much better at this than SR4. I think actually it's worse than SR5 at save or suck spells... but hey that's just me.

Really saw that with one character. Threw 2 stun balls at group crowded in an alley, and killed all but one. I was only intending to knock them out, but the stun exceeded their overflow. The net hits were crazy, but with the force, did not even take any drain damage.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:33, Fri 09 Feb.

I ruled a long time ago that Stun Only Direct spells can only do Stun.

It's usually more than just a single point, but you have a point about action economy when that economy is equal.  Pinging enemies for minor injuries from across the city is excellent for tailchaser runs.  They can't afford to let whoever you are just keep doing that, so they have to send someone after you.  But you have ten miles headstart.


Honestly, the best damage spells in SR are the aura spells.  Just give your streetsam another [Force] to the damage code of their melee weapon of choice.  Even better, multiple auras of different elements stack.  You do have to be careful which ones you use, because that lets the target stack applicable armor types (If you use both fire and lightning auras, the target gets to add both fire resistance and nonconductive ratings from their armor), but knowing which ones to use is something you can get from the pre-op legwork.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:46, Fri 09 Feb.

Never had that that kind of chase scene happen :) Different people's experiences are different. If we don't break contact with the bad guys quickly we usually loose because they have more resources that we do. If we are being chased by minions they get blasted quickly. I can see you could have it happen, it just never has to me. Not in my list of 'what I design a character for' (I have guns to deal with that scenario)

Nice thing about magic damage is that 'you always have it' so you have it when the bad guys attack you as well as when you are kitted up for violence

I do like the aura spells. But mostly I don't see magic used much for doing damage. It's too hard work. A taser or a bullet is often as good for a lot less effort. Especially if you have autofiring stick and shock bullets... not much isn't going to feel the hurt. Including big spirits. There are a few circumstances where magic is good for it, but as I say I don't see it used much. Maybe vs the super powered up troll in security armor... but a mind control spell is generally a lot better, less effort and has the second win that now the troll is on 'your friend' and beating up the others. Of course he will probably hold quite a grude in the future...

I don't think I've ever been in a game where you could sensibly stack the aura spells: the count of active spells you have is very small. You have one for 'make me go faster' because every mage has increased reflexes. You might have a couple of other other low force spells with sustain foci. And really after that you have probably one other spell. Because the minuses on your actions are too big a thing. SR5's focused concentration is great, but it's only one spell and lots of karma. Sustain foci are expensive in karma and nuyen and having several of them for elemental auras at high force is a serious amount of dosh. You are probably better being a mystic adept/physical adept with elemental body if you want the numbers high.

Again other people's experiences are different. Just saying I don't really see magic users doing blast spells a lot, or in fact it being as effective as them using a big gun most of the time.

Auras don't have to be high force to be nasty.  Keep in mind that you're adding the force of the aura to the boxes of damage that a melee weapon is already doing.  And you're getting whatever armor penetration comes with the elements you choose.  Three F4 auras can take a sword from "Meh" to "Who invited Raiden?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF_6dDh0JpU

And yeah, a force 4 sustaining focus isn't cheap.  But it's cheaper than basically any piece of deltaware.  It all depends on campaign scope.

On the lower end, a single F1 aura still confers the AP-half effect, as long as you pick the right element.  Pretty cheap for what it does.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:47, Fri 09 Feb.

I guess I never saw the aura smells.  They are much like the blade spells.

Really every mage I have played is just a race to power focus 6 and sustain focus for reflexes  then what ever else comes up. So like the first 50 karma is already spent

If you can see a smell, you probably want a gas mask. XD
This message was last edited by the player at 23:29, Fri 09 Feb.

Okay, fellow Shadowrun nerds and nerdettes...I have question.

During character generation you can only buy a certain amount of negative qualities.    Is this a hard limit, i.e. you can only have up to that number of negatives....or is it a limit of how much counts, in the event that you want more negative qualities than character generation allows?

It's a net, so you can offset the negatives with positive qualities. At least for 2nd and 6th Editions.

In reply to Hunter (msg # 35):

P71 "Additionally, at creation characters can only possess at most 25 Karma worth of Positive Qualities and 25 Karma worth of Negative Qualities."

Obviously a GM can let you take more/get credit for more based on their personal game.

In reply to Hunter (msg # 35):

I've always seen STs let you take more negatives if you want, but you stop getting points at the cap. After creation the only limit is what the ST wants to reward or allow for purchase. In fact many qualities are better purchases after creation.

In reply to Hunter (msg # 35):

I would recommend no more than whatever the limit of Negative Qualities is as set by the BMD. If a player really wants more, they can take more, but they will get no more points for them just as if they got them after the campaign begins.