I think commandeering an empty apartment is low-risk.  We've got enough B&E skills and toys that it should be straight-forward.  And we can find one astrally that's genuinely empty - and that looks unoccupied or at least infrequently occupied and has no pets or other issues.

I fully agree we don't want to hurt either of them.  And I wasn't thinking we'd cart them downstairs.  Was just thinking we'd chat in the apartment, even if that involved knocking them out first.

That said, I'm ok with your plan.  I think giving Caduceus a chance to summon spirits is good.  It's 50-50 whether we're better off having Noruas in the network or not.  He's vulnerable to nastiness in the network and could tip off our targets if they've got it monitored.  On the other hand, he could block out-bound communication and perhaps improve our situational awareness.  So I say we make it Noruas' call whether he jacks in or not.  (One option is for him to jack in simultaneously with the knock on the door.

I see. Decent idea, bit of a risk if someone randomly shows up, but may be a good opportunity. What if in the scenario where we had to incap them, we just tied them up in Hendrix's own apartment? We'd know for sure in that case nobody else would be dropping by.
Plus, there's something more terrifying about being tied up and helpless in one's own abode that could play out well for us during interrogation.



Agreed, should be Nouras' call.

Well, let's go ahead and set that up then. I'm optimistic these guys are going to be so relieved we aren't a strike team that we'll be able to bring them out for cheeseburgers. Hmm, maybe we can go in with a gift?

By the way, just wanted to let you guys know that I made a few minor changes to my sheet with Bear's approval- one significant change is that I no longer have Astral Perception. I'm confident Cad has that covered.

Wow, you guys go through a lot in one night!  I woke up earlier and had to scroll through A LOT!

Anyways, I'm all for the occupying adjacent or nearby apartments approach.  I WILL still need something like CH's super briefcase just in case!  Oh, and Caduceus can probably set his meat in the same apartment too so that we can respond much more quickly to each other should things go awry.

As to the mindlink spell Caduceus mentioned, I'm uncertain how that will play out when I'm in the matrix.  PB stresses time and time again to me that Magic doesn't mix well with Technology,so.....

I can try the matrix approach, but seeing as to how our two targets are potentially deckers with home court advantage I might possibly be outgunned.  In that case, I'm unsure how much help I can give in that aspect.  But I will still try and see if there's anything I can try to assist in.

Aside from all that, I say we improvise from there. (Too much planning will be our downfall if we can't adapt.)  Copperhead can keep over-watch for external factors outside the building while providing extra back-up should we need it.  I will do my schtick and handle the matrix side if I can.  (I'll try to warn you guys if I can't.)  Caduceus is our magical support as well as providing other channels of communication for those of us who can use it.  WD will probably have to take the lead in initiating contact and approach the situation as how he sees fit.  The rest of us will provide him with as much support as possible.



But there is something that is bothering me.  If we were to enter the apartment complex with Hendrix's code, would that alert him or anyone else to our presence?  Or is this code the same for everyone in the complex?



And as for the B&E aspect of the other apartments, I can probably handle it. But I might need to borrow a couple tools from CH.

Caduceus can't use his mind link on the astral plane on anyone not using astral perception, so he can't use it on any of you anymore.  But I believe he can still command a spirit if he conjured it ahead of time (assuming projecting doesn't count as leaving their domain).  So Caduceus can be a ghost over Duck's shoulder to keep an eye on things.  If he needs to, Caduceus can manifest himself to relay info in an emergency as well.

I don't know about the others, but I'll take whatever we can get!  Better to have help than to have none at all.

Agreed.  Caduceus can also conjure a spirit or two to help guard Noruas as well.

So let's start by doing the b & e, then go from there.

Given the quality of the neighborhood and the apartment building, I expect the front door has a set of known pass-codes and either opens or doesn't - no alerts.  If there's a change in behavior, Copperhead should be able to notice it through the window and we can adjust.  Right now they're focused on making breakfast, so a bit distracted too.

Our sub-vocal mikes should be sufficient for communication.  Real benefit of the spell is when there's jamming, someone's swiped our mikes or we need to maintain radio silence.

So plan is:
1. White Duck, Noruas and Caduceus enter the apartment building using the passcode we watched Hendrix use.  They then break into a nearby apartment that looks like it's empty and has been that way for a while.  Copperhead will watch to make sure the targets don't get spooked and to provide overwatch

2. The three will work to put the scorpion into a ventilation shaft and, depending on where the apartment is, consider whether it's worthwhile poking a scope through the wall.
- If the walls are brick, might be too much effort.  But if the walls are just gyp-rock and insulation, should be able to poke a hole very quickly and quietly (and I can do a flyby with the siren on to cover the noise. )  I should have a good sense of the layout, so should be no issue knowing whether there's going to be a spot from one of the adjacent apartment with a good view of their feet.  And that would let White Duck cast spells and watch without going astral.  Not an essential element though - just an available set of tools if you guys decide to use it.

3. Once the drone's in place, then White Duck goes astral for a final recon and Caduceus summons his spirits and White Duck goes to knock on the door, leaving the briefcase to watch over the bodies in the commandeered apartment.  Noruas jacks in at the same time White Duck knocks.  If things go badly, then spirits + white duck (and maybe a stun bolt or two from Caduceus) take them out.  If things go really badly, Copperhead will start shooting through walls and windows.

4. Presuming the operation has been successful and quiet, Caduceus and Noruas can opt to change base of operations to Hendrix's apartment (after retrieving the scorpion).  Copperhead will continue to keep an eye on what's going on outside in case unfriendlies show up

That said, I'd ask with Duck, but he knows this already, but what's Tee-Hee's actual name? We have that info, don't we? Do we know Hendrix's decker name? I think I recall him having a datajack.



Seems the GM indicated that the only empty apartment had been recently occupied. How cautiously are we trying to proceed with this option? It seems like it might be riskier than expected.


Hi CH, it's nice to meet you, I'm a kickyfooting facey type specialist with no spellcasting ability :P. Anyway, idea for the scorpion- if these apartments are cheap enough, they might go with cheap ceiling paneling, and if that's the case, we can lift a tile and let the scorpion in there. Ceiling is a lot more likely to be soft enough to drill through.



Sorry, I'd said a little earlier that I did some re-tooling of my sheet to reflect a few changes Bear approved, mainly to ditch firearms usage and convert Duck's skills in that area to throwing weapons instead. Had to give up astral perception in order to do so, sadly, but with Cadeuces on astral, it's an area we've got covered.



Good idea. Say, why can't these guys break into a maintenance closet or something instead of an occupied apartment?

As far as I can recall, Tee-Hee is his real name.  Or at least the name he used where he worked.  If there was another name, I don't remember hearing it.  And I believe Rr. Hendrix's decker name is Flair.




I think we can still use the apartment.  If someone returns home then Copperhead could probably warn us.  Perhaps we could jam a door between the entrance and the third floor as well.




Caduceus can also cast Stealth on the drill so it makes absolutely no noise instead of very little.




Yes, White Duck is the adept/face (no astral), and Caduceus is the snake shaman with conjuring/astral abilities.  I think you keep getting us mixed up. :P

Also, I should mention that Caduceus has no direct damage spells (snake shamans are pacifists).  He is not so great with weapons either.  He more relies on tricks and spirits and staying out of combat altogether.




If there is a maintenance closet nearby, that is a great idea.  I don't think apartments typically have them though, do they?  I guess that would be for Papa Bear to tell us though.

You're right - I do keep getting you confused.  The fact that White Duck doesn't have astral anymore should help.  Eventually . . . :>

I think White Duck has already knocked on the door before anyone's gotten hidden away anywhere, so what apartments/closets are available is probably moot.

I wouldn't recommend jamming the door to the third floor.  That just says to everyone "something's up" - and we'd rather no-one knew that.

Seeing as Flair/Hendrix and/or Tee Hee are going to be online when the knocking happens, my recommendation is to relocate them ASAP as either of them *could* potentially have called for backup.  (Friends, buyers of the chips, who knows) and it'd be best to avoid those sorts of circumstances.  That said, if anyone does show up, I can give a heads up, and it shouldn't be too hard to convince our targets that everyone'll be a lot healthier if their friends go home - might be harder with the buyers though as they may be happy to tie up loose ends.

In general, silence spell plus drill with fiber-optic scope + mind control spells is pretty powerful.  Not sure we'll need it here, but going forward, it should make it a lot easier to make someone urgently need to use the toilet, get into an argument with the other occupant in the room or do whatever else we need.  So feel free to borrow the drill and scope in the future when/if you need to.

Caduceus - by "no direct damage", does that include stun/sleep spells?

Yes, unfortunately.  He has stun grenades though.  Influence, Trid Phantasm, and spirits are the magics he would most likely use in combat.  He gets penalties in magic in combat though, as a snake shaman, so he would rely more heavily on physical combat anyway.

So which door is WD knocking on specifically?  I mean, we haven't exactly gotten into position yet, right?  Unless of course I missed a whole bunch of posts saying we somehow got through the front door and then into the apartment adjacent to Hendrix and Tee Hee without incident?

Knocking on the front door of the complex isn't going to get much - you'd have to buzz someone presumably.  And you've got a passcode to open it on your own.  I guess you could look for Hendrix's name and buzz that, asking to come in.  But that puts you a long ways from wherever they are if they decide to do something *other* than open the door to let you in.  I think using the passcode to get through the outer door and knocking on the inner door strikes the right balance.  It significantly limits their options and shows your power, but still shows politeness and restraint.  The question is whether you're going to let the other team-members get into position first.

Yeah, that was pretty much what I wanted to ask.  Are you gonna let us take our positions first?

I indicated in my initial post that Duck was waiting for you guys to get into position before he knocked.

So I guess it's up to Caduceus and Noruas to indicate where they're going to hang out.

Ok
( https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zrfUJzfMZ_4/maxresdefault.jpg )

Seems like a lot of stuff to squish in there and basically skip past, but I'll work on a post.

Well, I don't really have anything going on with my character until you guys elaborately break into an adjoining apartment to... uh, well, you know, objectively I don't really know a solid reason why you guys want to do that whole B&E thing aside from increasing the odds that something goes south.

I'm not sure as a player what we're gaining from that course of action aside from an opportunity to get caught committing a crime that doesn't serve much of a purpose against a victim we don't even know who could be anyone, including someone dangerous. If you guys want to back Duck up, you can also just wait around the corner of a hallway or something. For now I'm just kinda facepalming over here about how elaborate a scheme this is becoming- I mean CH literally handed Duck so much stuff that he'd need help carrying it all, and for what? To prepare for the contingency of...?

My point is, we're creating a situation ourselves that has more unknowns than the situation we're facing- two dudes in an apartment who don't know we're coming. I think the adjacent apartment thing is completely unnecessary, and since the consensus seems to be that this level of effort is required and Duck is being reckless in just wanting to go up to the guy's door and knock, there are an absurdly high number of things that can go wrong with breaking into a stranger's apartment to provide my quite-combat-capable runner with backup that he doesn't need. If Duck ends up geeked, then hindsight is 20/20 and you guys were right about this, but if I'm correct in my assessment of this situation, we're going to bog things down with an incredibly elaborate approach that gains us an advantage that'd be negligible at best.

That said, I typed out my action all in one go so that I, as a player, can check back next week after you guys have mission impossible'd your way into the neighbor's apartment and I can finally proceed.

Admittedly, I was half of the mind to just have him walk in and ignore this plan you guys have hatched, but I'm trying to be considerate and you guys all seem to think it's a good idea. Maybe I'm just not seeing something here, but I think personally it's a pretty terrible idea. So does Duck, so I'll have him let you all know this in his own way.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:54, Wed 23 Mar 2016.

If Duck is so not the least bit worried about the two guys trying to lay low, and even thinks he can take them on single handedly if they draw guns on him, then why is he so worried about the slum neighbors who aren't even home?  It seems awfully low-risk to me to have two professionals waiting in standby.

We are a team, White Duck.  A Shadowrunning team.  You may very well be able to be able to handle this scenario solo, but I don't think our characters know you well enough to just take your word on your ability to work miracles by knocking on a door.  Contingencies are there to use, but hopefully they never need to be.  There is no reason that while your character is doing what he is good at, that our characters can't be doing what they are good at.

When I play a roleplaying game, I do like there to be a bit of role-playing involved.

A miracle isn't what's needed for this situation, a discussion is, and a discussion doesn't require a separate B&E with fiber optic cam relays, multiple backup spirits, and I guess decking support. If we needed to work a miracle, maybe the incredibly overladen briefcase, the spare drone, and all of this other stuff might be called for, but for this situation, I'm just not seeing how doing the B&E thing into the slum neighbor's apartment is beneficial or useful at all. We're a team, you're right, but a good team knows when *not* to waste time and assets and take unnecessary risks, which this is.

If you want to argue the contrary, let's see how this plays out. I'm not a betting man myself, but I'd put money on all of this contingency planning you guys want to do being a useless elaboration carried out because my character can't be trusted to complete a simple task.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:22, Wed 23 Mar 2016.

Also, telling me that we're a team in the same line that you're telling me your characters don't know mine well enough to trust in his abilities is kind of a contradictory statement. A team trusts its members to follow through, especially if they're confident they can, *especially* a shadowrunning team. Of course, what would I know, I've only been playing this game since '94.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:32, Wed 23 Mar 2016.

I am fine with the contingency being unnecessary. It is a contingency after all.  And I am certainly interested in seeing how this works out.  I do not have nearly as many doubts in White Duck's abilities as my character does. (Remember they have known each other less than 24 hours)

However, what happens if you knock and nobody answers?

We know they're in there, so I knock again.

EDIT: Removed a bunch of myself being cranky about this.

I just want to say here that the contingencies you're all planning for are all ones that would pretty much exclusively put my own character at risk, and I'd appreciate it if in the future you guys gave me as a player the agency to take such risks, seeing as they don't endanger anyone else. If I tell you guys "I got this," I'd really appreciate your consideration and respect- after all, part of being a team is knowing what role each member of a team plays, and part of good role play is being allowed and able to play the role you designed your character for.

Here, I think I grew frustrated because I told you guys "I got this," and I feel like that's been ignored, all because, from what my understanding of the situation is, you don't want my character to be in danger? Hi, the player of that character here speaking. I'm all good with not having the safety net/contingency plan. Duck?

"Yessir?"

Do you feel like you need backup on this?

"Nope, but I'd appreciate it if these folks stopped trying to babysit me."

Alrighty then.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:30, Wed 23 Mar 2016.

My general leaning in the Shadowrun space is to be over-prepared rather than under-prepared.  We have very little intel on TeeHee or Hendrix.  We don't know if or how well armed they are or what skills they have.  We don't know if they have back-up available or not.  I agree that there's decent odds that you won't need the back-up.  We can only guess - and if you have to guess, prepare for the worst.  It's better to have the back-up available and not need it than the reverse, right?  And the risk associated with breaking into the apartment is pretty low - I'm pretty sure Noruas can be inside in less than 10 seconds.  They'll only be there for 5 minutes or so - enough for you to talk your way in and take control of the situation without spooking them.

Your character being in danger means putting the team at risk - you're a part of the team.  Also, if things go badly for you because you under-estimated risk and we're not in position to help you, then that means others put themselves at risk to get you out and we may put the mission at risk if anything unfortunate happens to the target.  Also keep in mind that we're a new team - takes a while to be able to trust each other or know what our capabilities are, so playing it safe makes sense from that perspective too.

If you want to roleplay a character who doesn't want teammates covering his six, that's ok.  But I presume that any time we're dealing with likely hostiles with unknown capabilities, backup is the default assumption.  And I definitely would categorize these as likely hostiles with unknown capabilities.

Paranoia is king in the Shadowrun universe I'm familiar with - anyone who presumes they've got it covered isn't likely to last long.

All that said, Copperhead's plan is to sit in her drone and watch and pull the trigger through the wall only as a truly last resort.  So long as you don't lose or damage my gear, what you do after you buzz in through the front entrance is up to the three of you :>