You may be able to smuggle them, since they're small. But they would 'care'.

Ok.  He'll probably just leave them with his motorcycle then.

So have we decided when it is I should set the alarm for, yet?

Copperhead proposed 5 minutes.  Right now she's just waiting for you to say you can.  She could then ask the others what they want.

Are you doing sprinklers, smoke alarm or both?

Well, if you say 5 mins, then I could setting it off in 5 mins.  But I would suggest you hash it out with the other two first.  I will be setting off any and all alarms available.

Then ask the question IC and I'll pass it along :>

Moving this to the planning thread.  My understanding is that spirit orders are delivered mentally - so no one would necessarily hear or see anything.  They might notice you concentrating, but given that they're pretty engrossed and you're concealed, that's unlikely.  If they had astral perception they'd likely notice.  In terms of a spell, again, the only sign would be a look of concentration unless you have a geis or there's a somatic component.  You light up like a Christmas tree in the astral, but it's not terribly obvious what's happening on the physical plane.  A trained observer who was paying attention would notice, but if you're standing behind them in the elevator, they won't see much.

Whether they'd notice the effects of the spell, I don't know.  My impression of mind probe is that the target is fully aware they're being probed - they get to resist.  So they're likely to freak out more than a little.  So from that perspective, yes, it's probably best done when there's a lot of people around.  Or when you've got them helpless so it doesn't really matter if they know what's going on with their head.  (Picture the scene from the most recent Star Wars where they're trying to read what's in each other's head - they definitely know something's happening.)

Also, I believe you need to touch the subject.  Influence might have been the better bet.  If BB confirms that this is how the spell works (and how spells work in general), he may let you adjust your post to something that's a bit safer - and more likely to get what you need.  (Influencing him to head to a nice abandoned area to have some quiet time to talk might be useful :>)

Say, would it be a crazy idea to try and hide *myself* in the backseat?

I would certainly be impressed if you could pull that one off.  What was your plan for doing it?

Also, your idea just made me think of another really cool one.  (I don't think we should try it, but it sounded cool so I wanted to share.)  So, White Duck and Caduceus can both alter their appearance, correct?  So Caduceus could influence Cleo into going to use the restroom before she crosses the lobby.  Then Caduceus and White Duck disguise themselves as Cleo and Pengrave.  Fake Cleo goes with Pengrave in the car, then when real Cleo comes out, fake Pengrave brings her out for a short stroll to get some fresh air and Copperhead picks them up down the street.

Alright, well, I sort of thought of this idea from what I've seen in a lot of horror/suspense movies- someone gets in a car without checking the backseat and takes off, then gets held hostage. As a CQC specialist, Duck would be able to own up on any in-vehicle combat if they try to initiate it. See also Michael De Santa from GTA V if you know which early mission I'm talking about.

Anyway, this works in real life too, as I've read of several instances of this sort of thing happening- most people just hop in and don't check the back seat.
So, going off that natural inclination, coupled with the concept that they'll likely assume themselves safe once they're in the car, it might be a viable pursuit, especially if Cad can distract them from checking or influence Pengrave to start driving once they hop in. Once they're underway, Duck will pop up holding a card to whomever's neck is driving, drawing a little blood to let them know those cards can kill someone, then navigate them to a safe spot for extraction of Val/Cleo and pickup.

I think once we get the chip out of Val, she'll cooperate, even possibly be thankful, for our assistance.

What do you guys think?

Probably a little crazy. :>  He has a driver, so I presume the two of them will be in the backseat too.  Could be a little cozy.  You've only got a fource 4 spirit concealing you.  My interpretation of concealment is that you're harder to notice.  When someone looks your way, a swirl of leaves or debris will obscure your location or the street light shining on your position will go fritzy.  When you walk, the leaves underfoot won't crackle and a coyote's howl will cover the clang of a gate.  Plus there's a bit of a mental influence that just makes you hard to notice.  You're still "there" but the environment cooperates to cover up your impact and people's natural tendancy to gloss over things that aren't "important" gets magnified with you clearly falling into the "not important" category.  (All of this is my interpretation though - who knows what Papa thinks :>)

In any event, once you were in the car - and certainly once the car left the building, you'd be outside the spirit's realm, meaning you'd lose the spirit's power and would be left with your own stealth.  If you can manage to hide well enough in the back seat that two other people sitting there wouldn't notice you, that'd be fragging *awesome*.  But I bet it's a pretty high TN ;>

Caduceus, your plan sounds interesting.  Trick would be pulling off all that high-level magic without the elementals watching the lobby noticing.  And without security picking up on the fact that Cleo and Pengrave get into the car and drive off, then stroll out of the building two minutes later.

However, influencing her that her stomach is bothering her so she heads to the woman's washroom, where one of you could then become a woman and join her and perhaps influence her to give over the chip or just take her out could work.  (Generally aren't cameras in washrooms, nor much astral watching going on.)

I'm not sure if she'll be greatful for the loss of the chip.  If this thing is BTL-like, it could be addictive and she might be pissed at its loss.  Hard to know for sure until it's out.

Hrmm, if there's a driver, why not just, uh, pretend to be the driver? If he's the average guy Duck should be able to knock him out fairly quickly and just push him over to the passenger's seat.

You could, but it'd be hard to do that.  The limo is parked in front of the main doors.  There's certainly security cameras, and possibly a doorman and/or valet desk with direct view of the car.  Plus whoever else is wandering in/out.  Our targets are moving through the lobby towards the doors, which I presume are glass, they probably also have a visual on the car.

Until the driver gets out of the vehicle, you have no hope of getting your hands on him.  So you'd have to take him out when he gets out to go around to open the door for his clients (assuming he doesn't just electronically open the door, but I suspect that wouldn't be sufficiently stylish.)  You'd have to take him out and get into his uniform without being noticed.

If we'd known he had a car and would be using it, could possibly have done that down in the garage, but I'd say it's too late at this point.

If Caduceus feels he can safely get our lady into the bathroom, then we might still be able to get the chip before they leave.  If not, we could try influencing Pengrave to drive somewhere useful.  And if that doesn't work then we'll just follow them and figure out whether we want to flick on the jammer, run them off the road and acqire the chip or just see where they go and do the "break in, steal the chip" once they're in their new (hopefully less secured) location.

Hrmm, might now be a good time to pull one of this floor's fire alarms?

I'd told Noruas to jack out and he was starting to climb the stairs.  So he's a few turns away from being able to do that.  I'm not sure where you are.  If you're in a position to do that without being noticed, that might be ok.  I suspect there are cameras in the elevator, so anything that keeps security from looking at the cameras for a minute or so would be good.  On the other hand, don't know how much backup Caduceus is going to need.  I'm trying to find what we know about Val.  I know she's not the street sam but I don't know if we know what her role is.  If the two of them are unarmed, hopefully their unarmed combat sucks.  However, it looks like she may have boosted reflexes, so hard to know.

  Caduceus might be able to take both with the help of the spirit.  Both are hopefully somewhat confused.   Spirit could slow the elevator and give him more time to subdue them, grab the chip and maybe even change his appearance to look like Pengrave.

Caduceus has 0 combat skills.  Snake shamans are typically pacifists, so he is extremely unsuited for close combat.  He also gets a penalty to his spells during combat.  He is fast though, so it should at least be hard for Pengrave to get his hits in.  If worst comes to worst, he will probably threaten Cleo with the first aid scissors, now that he knows how much she means to Pengrave on a personal level.

Caduceus is going to try and talk himself out of his bad situation.

The tricky part is what her capabilities are - she may be more than able to defend herself.  Don't forget to leverage your spirit.

WD, as an experienced Shadowrunner, you would know that pulling the fire alarm would (if the elevator has an integrated recall system like it should) deliver the elevator automatically to some pre-determined floor, usually the lobby, but possibly a basement. It would override any controls inside the elevator and ignore any elevator calls. It would also probably result in a lot of people wandering around the driveway and possibly even locking down the garage level, which would make car use difficult.

Locking down the garage level in the incident of a FHIR would be really odd - definitely wouldn't want to keep people from getting out of a burning building.  I can see keeping people from *getting* to the parking area - don't want a traffic jam.  But it should certainly be possible to leave if you happen to be in the basement.  (Directing the elevator to the basement would be weird too - you'd want it to exit to ground level, both because that's where you want the people inside to be and that's also where first responders would likely be arriving.)

So, if I wait on those elevator doors to open at the lobby, then pull the alarm, it wouldn't work for some reason?

I'm going to pull a bit on personal knowledge here, as my father was a fire-fighter for over twenty years and is now the chief. I'm actually a certified volunteer firefighter as well. While I'm not full-time and won't profess expertise, I do know the way things go during a building fire with evacuating residents-

Usually in fire alarm/drill situations, everyone's instructed to evac to a designated area. In fact, buildings are presently legally required to post signs with designated evacuation routes. Even when a building would have, say, an integrated sprinkler system, these alarms *require* folks to evacuate even if the alarm was pulled as a prank. A few years ago during finals week at a school I taught at, we had three students pull fire alarms back to back to avoid taking exams. Legally, we had to basically stand outside in the heat all day even though everyone knew it was BS after the second time the alarm was pulled, and we all ended up having our Summer vacation reduced by a day because of these young fools.

Additionally, while I can't speak for the late 2050's, federal law NFPA 72 (asked my dad about this one) designates that ONLY a building's lobby can be used for firefighter elevator recall. This is because building lobbies have specific design considerations that require lobby floors to have a certain number of exits/entryways, access to other floors of the building, etc to make evacuation possible in circumstances that are life-or-death situations. It's also why you always see a "NO PARKING- FIRE ZONE" area directly in front of some buildings, but never inside of an integrated parking garage. Think about it- if the structural integrity of a building is potentially compromised by fire or any other major hazards, the firefighters aren't going to park their trucks *inside* the building. Parking in a parking garage during an emergency response situation also sort of prevents the truck from being able to utilize its ladder to rescue civilians from upper floors or its hose from being able to connect to a hydrant/reach a fire.

Elevator recall systems are put in place so that fire fighters basically get these elevators reserved for their own use during emergency response situations. Contrary to popular belief, elevators are routinely stable and working during all but the most major of building fires. Civilians are generally under the impression that they are instructed to use the stairs because elevators may not work/might get overcrowded, and while it may indeed be a factor to consider, it isn't the primary reason these systems are in place. Ever see that keyhole slot on an elevator button panel with the little firefighter helmet? If dispatched to a large building, fire response from that district is going to bring the key that fits and use the elevator to get to the appropriate floor very quickly.

So, that said, even if those regulations were no longer in play in this futuristic cyberpunk fantasy hybrid setting, it wouldn't make any practical sense to shunt an elevator to a basement level, as those systems aren't put in place to get civilians to their cars, but to get responders to the emergency.

Also, I'm aware that pulling that alarm would cause a bit of a clusterfuck with foot and vehicle traffic- that's the idea. If those elevator doors open and the numerous lobby guards see one of their tenants fighting with a stranger, they're probably going to light up/arrest that poor stranger. If there was a rushing crowd of panicked civilians between them and the elevator doors, however, their plates might be a bit too full for them to consider it a priority. A traffic jam prevents that Westwind from being able to make an easy escape, too. In other words, I was actually suggesting causing that situation to occur so that Cad and I can retrieve the chip and escape with the crowds. As has been stated, we're both capable of altering our appearances to an extent in which a huge crowd of people exiting the building would be an ideal circumstance for easy extraction.

TL;DR- I'm confused as to why giving us some crowd cover and making the area turn into a clusterfuck so we can get out during the chaos wouldn't work in our favor.

Correct.



Okay, never mind then! My information is from a five-minute google search. The elevator opens to the lobby! (I will put in the caveat, in some specialized cases like arcologies, there may be basement "safe zones" instead of rally points outside of the building. But this building definitely does not qualify.)



I didn't say it wouldn't work out in your favor, only that that is what would happen. As a player, the worst gaming experience is to be sure X action will have Y result, and instead it has Z because no one stated what they were actually expecting to see.

Thanks for the quick response, Bear!

Also, sorry if I came across as some know-it-all snob there. I used to be that kid in class that would raise my hand to try and answer every question, but, well, I know I'm definitely wrong sometimes :P

Not a problem at all! Part of why I love Shadowrun is it gets me to read about how people work in all sorts of different fields.

Hrmm, well, now that that issue is settled, I do recognize that introducing crowds into the scene could potentially muss up what you guys are doing, so I wanted to confer with my teammates here and determine whether or not this would be advisable at the moment or cause you guys to facepalm.

I wouldn't face-palm.  Whether it's advantageous will sort of depend on how things go in the elevator.  From an IC perspective, it's a reasonable thing for you to do right away.  (And is essentially what Noruas might try, though it'll take him longer to get to it.)  It'll take a turn or two for everyone to react.  And creating some distraction within the elevator may not be a bad idea either.  Just try not to get noticed and try to be in position to help with the elevator when it arrives if needed.