Way I figure it, there's four answers for why the phys-sec is so poor around here.
1 - the site relies on anonymity and/or nearby sec assets. Expect security to be pointed inwards - anything caught outside is low grade enough to be caught by rent-a-cops, and anything that can get past them has been deemed too skilled for countermeasures to be considered cost effective. If this is the case, then the local guards are supposed to act as spotters and are equipped for a delaying action until the bigger guns can roll in.

This is not the smart bet, so we should use it as additional info while assuming another. Also see 3.


2 - there are security measures we haven't found yet. This could be physical security that has been better concealed than a rigger and a mage could find at first glance. That means trapdoors in the earth and direct-wire turrets or sleeper drones. If we find records of a lot of excavations in the area, then there is a very good chance of trapdoor turrets that can't be found by radio snooping. Any magical sec is either on-call or exclusively inside the facility. The heavy hitting security will probably also be inside the facility to maintain the element of surprise. Worst to worst, they could have passive security in the form of land mines, concertina wire bundles and monofilament wire.

If this is the case, then we need to commit to more research. If/when we identify drone types, then we can try to isolate the model and figure out ways around it. Nothing else can be said until we know more.


3 - Pitcher Plant. Like option 1, the pitcher plant is about keeping credible threats captured inside rather than keeping them out. Security is strongly pointed inwards, and our goal will be as far into the facility as possible so that we have to fight the longest path to get back out. The real problem with this is it fits in perfectly with 1; the trapper security provides ample time for off-site reinforcements to drop the hammer. In other words, sticking around for the cavalry is inadvisable.

If this is the case, then the best strategy is to overwhelm them after cutting off their communications and avenue of escape (for messengers). Radio jammers, a barricade, and severing (or prepping) the hard line would be our priority 1 for prep. Magic support is most likely only available from their reinforcements, though wards should still be present.

4 - Pursuit - The facility relies on passive internal security and pursuit based external sec. So we can get in, and we can get out, but we cannot get away. Expect a nearby rigger with scads of drones to respond to (silent) alarm and gun us down as we try to break off. This works equally well with a Summoner.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:26, Wed 18 Mar 2015.

Still in favor of dressing up as janitors. It's the easiest way to sneak a troll and two dwarves into a japancorp facility, and requires a minimum of hacking/espionage with guaranteed access.

On a related note, does anyone here have connections to obtain recreational and/or pharmaceutical grade drugs?  And hopefully for a cheaper price?  I was previously going to depend on Carver or Thaden, but since those characters were dropped I need someone to step up for the role.

Which reminds me, can Copperhead and/or Toombs detect whether or not the security booth has wireless internet or bluetooth?  That might be helpful for me and all of us.

That is what we have been checking this entire time, or at least at the beginning.
Don't you have any contacts that could help you with this? Fixers should do fine.

Well, I just wanted to check to see if there were others who can provide the drugs cheaper.

Which reminds me, did the fly-by both with the drone and the mage detect any sort of ventilation systems?

I might be able to make you some stuff.  Though if I were BB, I'd probably hide the rolls and do something amusing if I whiffed. :>  Note that the price of "make your own" probably won't be significantly cheaper than bought, though might be able to ignore the street-level markup.  Competition and mass production mean that do-it-yourself often isn't cheaper.

Didn't ask too much about the ventilation systems because the Johnson already indicated they'd likely be pretty well secured.

Pumping gas into the ventilation system would also violate the terms of the job.  Hard to pretend nothing happened if everyone suddenly goes nighty-night for 4 hours.  Did you have something else in mind?

By our tactical assessment, I was also led to believe that any ducting would be going through their garage or near the front door of the facility.

So, going in as janitors won't work if they only have one janitor.  And if there's only 4 guards, odds are pretty good they know the janitor on site.  We might be able to give the janitor a good case of food poisoning and arrange to take his place, though there's still the question of how to add our new guy to the security system.

I actually like the notion of giving one or two of the staff food poisoning.  If they're busy worshiping the porcelain thrown, that's a few fewer eyes keeping an eye on things.  We'd have to time it so that symptoms wouldn't kick in until they were on-site though.  If two of the 4 guards are down, that leaves the janitor, one guard at the front desk and one guard wandering the facility - who we can monitor on the radio.

We'll see if there's another delivery truck tonight and, if so, we can find out where it's coming from.  That might be a mechanism of entry too.

Well, I need abut 2-3 bricks worth of hashish or something equivalent in hash oil for the job.  And no, it wouldn't be nighty-night if the guards were baked before we entered.  The idea is to slowly pump the place full of THC, but not enough to knock them out.  This would give us an edge to perform with a higher margin of error than Mission Impossible hanging in the silent room with the sweat sensitive floor.

This is also why I asked for phone cloning and/or bluetooth/wireless setup.  I wish for a way to be able to access their security at the front gate to see if they have a log/manifest dictating who they are/n't expecting.  This clearly would make our jobs easier.

Which reminds me, does Toombs have access to Improved Invisibility?
This message was last edited by the player at 01:26, Mon 23 Mar 2015.

The security at the front gate won't be wireless.  In the SR universe, all matrix is hard-wired until 2070+.  We'll have to create our own wireless access point.

Assuming we could pipe a gas through the complex (which we can't), "baked" would be difficult to achieve.  Very hard to control the concentration in different places.  So some might not even feel a buzz and others would be comatose (or dead).  As well, hard for most people to not notice the effects.  If they realize that something's not quite right, pretty easy to hit the panic button, even if they're giggling to themselves as they do it.

Toombs mentioned he had invisibility, but it wasn't great.  Can you be a bit more specific?

Awesome new spell idea: Montazuma's revenge.  Could be a highly effective way to get people to decide that a detailed inspection of your credentials isn't necessary, have someone leave a guard post for a few minutes, be a little less aware of the surroundings for a few minutes, etc.

Baking the entire facility wouldn't be hard when you just disperse the gas from the ventilation source.  All rooms that share the same ventilation source would be well gassed.  Thats why I need the concentrated dosage.  It would distract the guards just enough to allow us some wiggle room if we need some.

The invisibility would allow someone to just walk up to their guard booth and look over the guard's shoulder to see the manifest/logs.  That would allow us to prepare for the situation in advance.  We would also get a clearer idea of what to pose as to get in.

That's not how building ventilation works.  Air turnover time varies significantly depending on the size of the space.  Run a stream of air full of gas for 5 minutes in a small room and the concentration could be enough to knock someone over.  Do it in an atrium and they might not notice it.  And that assumes that ventilation will go where you want it.  We already know it's not an option in this facility anyhow.

Invisibility would be a significant asset, presuming we don't have spirits or other detection mechanisms.  If Toombs can make me invisible, I can probably get down to the mechanical room to set up a tap - allowing Noruas to hack the security on the emergency doors.  I can then open them from the inside and let everyone in.

The fact we have a fixed arrival time of 2am puts a real crimp in things.  There isn't much that shows up then.  And the notion of someone coming in earlier and hiding is a problem too.  Heck, even taking over the janitor job becomes impossible because they arrive around 8pm (presuming an 8 hour shift).

It may be we'll have no choice but to hack the back doors from the outside.  Alternatively, we ignore orders and plan to slip in early, or at least slip one person in early.

Lols, I still stand by my method of baking the place.  Even if you don't want to do it, I still want to know the ventilation sources for the place.  We 'might' need to know all we can possibly learn about the place in the short window of time we have....At least I do.  If I have to leave you guys behind to escape by crawling through a duct, I'd like to know where they are beforehand! Just kidding...not really.  But I prefer to prepare for as much as possible.

But regarding sneaking someone or all of us in sounds like a great plan.  Besides, as long as the J doesn't find out we start next to the finish line all's good.  She only said that we can start running when the bell starts at 2AM.  In my case, that just means me beginning to hack the place at 2AM.  We could start off as janitors in this case and get a chance to prepare for our heist whilst cleaning the floors and scrubbing the toilets.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:53, Mon 23 Mar 2015.

Found the quote about the vents.

I was thinking, should we try to find a way to get in touch with the runners that will be infiltrating the other facility at the same time we go to ours?  It would be handy to get some sort of warning if they mess up on their run so that we can know if security is suddenly going to be stepped up on ours.

Also, maybe it would be best if everyone didn't actually go inside the building.  It could be handy to have someone outside if the four security guards call for backup.  And if someone inside gets into a tight spot, the outside man could create a distraction and redirect attention to a different area of the facility.  It would probably be easy to make them think some teenage hooligans are poking their noses around and getting into trouble.  Something to keep the guards occupied, but certainly not worth calling in.

I still believe we should leave no rock unturned.  I still want to know about the ventilation systems.  I'm pretty sure bio-containment would be used mainly for the labs, but I may be mistaken.  Still, any information I get is better than no info at all.  I'm not going to ignore this ventilation just because the J says no.  DO YOU WANT ME TO DIE ST. VELVETEEN?

Actually, knowing about other shadowrunners at other facilities is great.  But IMO I think we should not contact them.  There's too much exposure and risk of us getting caught if the other groups leak this information.  I believe we could try to find out about them, but its best we don't contact them.

In terms of getting in touch with the other runners - we can ask the Johnson, but I expect she'll say that's why she wants to be involved any time we're talking to someone - to ensure we create no conflicts.  And unless the other team is showing poor operational security, we'd have little chance of finding them.  That said, checking around quietly can't hurt.  Who knows, maybe someone'll roll an 18 :>

Even if the vents weren't well designed, it'd be nearly impossible to get who we wanted with a dose that would be effective and unnoticed.  We've got 4 guards + janitor, at least 3 of whom are mobile and could be anywhere.  The guards in the front are in a large space which makes dosing a sufficient amount challenging.  Too risky.

If I can get a radio signal out, I can create a bit of a distraction outside if necessary even if I'm inside.  Biggest challenge with leaving someone outside is it could be difficult to move them quickly to where they're needed.  It's a big hill and there are cameras, so moving where needed could be tough.  That said, we don't necessarily need all 4 of us to try to get to the server room.

BB: were there any cars other than the guards and the janitor parked overnight?  I.e. Any keeners pulling an all-nighter or crashing on the couch?  Was it 4 guards and another janitor coming in at 4am when the others left?

We can poke holes in my ideas regarding ventilation till the day pigs fly, I still want the information I asked for.  What I do with it is my business.

I also need Toombs to please figure out what the wiring looks like in the walls.  Where do or don't they run.  How thick the walls are.  Possible materials they're made with.  Thickness of doors, their material, types of locks, etc.  Basically, I'm just waiting for BB to say whether or not he can even float past the main gate without setting off alarms.

Planting a tap on an exposed camera sounds like our ideal next step. At the least, we should be able to piggyback off the local security feeds to get some free intel on the inside - like hidden cameras, ultrasound emitters, and tripwires. If there's a good feed leading to the server room, we could even pull up some research on the door model, see if there's any prep-work we can roll beforehand to improve our chances of popping it easily.
Best case scenario, we gain access to cardreaders and doors. If that's the case, I suggest Noruas work on a data bomb/back door that will spread appropriate access keys throughout the facility. We'll save a lot of time (from either theft or use of Sequencers & Maglock Passkeys) if we can just add some PINs and a few cheap security passes we can make ourselves. On top of that, if we can disguise ourselves as one thing or another, it will look a lot better if we can just slot a card in front of suspicious guards.

regarding replacing security at the target site:
IFF we decide that replacing guards is the way to go, we could try having a matrix run to crack the subcontractor's network. They're a second-string corp, and I'm willing to bet they aren't even above a 'B' rating. I'm willing to bet we could insert our own photo ID's and some generously altered identifying information to gain full access. It doesn't have to stand up to scrutiny, and we can erase the data after the fact.
This would make taking advantage of Montezuma's revenge so much easier, but it does increase our risk of exposure. Fortunately, since it's not the target site, I still consider the risk minimized (somewhat).

Reminder: this is a biotech facility with its own secure ventilation system. Any major contaminants would set off an alarm. It would also coat the entire facility in THC which would be somewhat... noticeable.
On top of that, you are still GASSING ALL THE GUARDS which will mean the facility will immediately know that something has happened, kissing away our performance bonus.

As it stands I have a Force 1 Improved Invisibility; for the time being I was going to rely on summoned spirits to use the Concealment power until I can afford to upgrade the spell.
Which reminds me, I can probably get that done for Gunner's drones, if you want me to give that a shot now.

I'll buzz the facility up close when I'm sure that everything we can learn passively is done. I'm primarily concerned with answering questions without setting off alarms for as long as possible. There's a very good chance that I'm not going to be able to spot wiring and other high tech stuff because that's both a major limitation of astral perception and a lack of training on the part of my character.

And Noruas, if you start doing your lone-wolf DIY bulldrek, I will do everything in my power to force you to make new characters until you either learn your lesson or leave the game. If you want to play solo, pick up a controller and a copy of Deus Ex.

St. V, that sounds like an excellent idea if you want to get the ball rolling. We don't need anything else about the other group, but an advanced notice for drek+fan is a smart idea. You can also talk to your fixer about tracking down plans for the facility. Otherwise, look at your knowledge skills to see what you can learn from the facility on your own. Knowledge of security systems could help us find the camera that Copperhead is looking for. The legwork is boring (especially for the sam) but there are still ways to help.

@Noruas: Actually, what all of us do is all of our business.  Going lone wolf in a way that might jeopardize the mission is not kosher.  It didn't go well last time and we don't want a repeat.  If we have to proceed as a 3-player game, we can.  Not trying to keep you from having fun, but if you start leaving an unnecessary (based on group consensus, not your own opinion) body count or going off on in a way that's detrimental to the team, you won't last long.  I believe BB explained this when you rejoined?

@St. V: There's a bit of history here as you can probably tell :>  To track down the other team, might make sense to start with the gang who hooked us up with the Johnson.  If she used them to grab us, she may well have used them to grab team A too.

@Toombs: Security is wearing company-specific uniforms, so I'm not clear on whether they are contractors.  I'm an expert in security protocols and devices, so I can probably find them once I have a chance to look around.  I'll probably take you up on your offer to camouflage one of my drones to take a peak around.  The good new is that metal tends to show up on radar fairly well.  Hopefully it'll get me close enough to see what kind of doors they have, what sort of key-pads, etc.  Ideally, I'll even be able to watch them use a keypad - unless they all just walk through the front door.

Will need to wait until BB returns from the big easy first as I want to get a better understanding of exactly how close the treeline comes to the various doors - front entrance, loading doc, emergency exits, etc.  Also, whether there are any windows looking out from any of the floors.

For the record, I have no contacts who would be any use here.

No, the night that you were watching was just guards and the janitor (and the hauling truck, while it was there). There's no day-time janitor, so when she clocks out, that's it.

Did 4 guards arrive when the other 4 departed?  And there were no other vehicles in the parking lot?  What's the distance from treeline to various doors?

You threatening me?  Why don't you just do it instead of talking about it?  If I wanted to jeopardize the mission, I would've done it from the get-go.  So keep your threats to yourself unless you want me to really pull some 'lone wolf DIY bulldrek' as you so kindly put it.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:29, Mon 23 Mar 2015.

PM

The four guards arrived before the other departed (approximately), so each is relieved by one (or two) others. At the wee hours, the parking lot is otherwise empty, but it starts filling up around 5.

The road splits and has a large group of trees in the center there, so they probably reach within 7 or 8 meters of the front door, and get to within 4 meters of the side loading dock.