Oh.  I can, but I thought we would just follow him and see where he goes first.  Especially after Caduceus's contact implied that he kind of fell off the grid.

Also, what is something he could ask Hendrix that would lead them to Tee-hee without tipping them off that we're on their trail?  (I've only thought about it for about 10 seconds so far, but I'm not thinking of anything promising.)

I'm open to following him, but if he's a dead lead, it'd be better to not waste too much time on him.  I think Tee Hee know's he's being looked for.  You don't steal multi-million dollar chip prototypes and then plan to go have a picnic in the local park.  In fact, it could well be in our interest for him *to* tip Tee-Hee off, so long as we're listening into the conversation and can trace where it's to.  Without shaking the tree a bit, the odds of our mark reaching out to Tee Hee in a useful timeframe are slim.  The reason they beat the bushes is to make the rabbit run . . .

So the real question is what's the ideal environment to ask our questions.  Encounter on the street, grabbing him and taking him for a "drive" or talking or breaking our way into his apartment are all possible and have varying pros and cons.  This neighborhood is a bit dicer to pull a daylight kidnapping in and as a former college professor, he's a tad riskier fellow to do it with.  My leaning would be to talk to him on the street.  If he bolts, we can decide to either tail him or take him down and grab him for questioning.

Why not just tail him home? If he suspects nothing is wrong, we can simply go up to his door and knock. Approaching him on the street may get the wrong reaction. My logic? I live in Houston, which can be a pretty dangerous place. Any time a stranger approaches me on the street or wherever, I tend to get very cautious and keep my distance, especially since open carry became legal here. Someone at my door, however, especially if it's a decent hour, my guard is lowered. If he doesn't notice the tail and he gets to his apartment, it opens up a lot of options for us in both investigation potential and approach strategy. I can probably get lucky enough with my rolls to get Duck through- he'd make a damned good travelling salesman in that regard.

I'm open to that.  Copperhead's just going to sit in the RV and provide cover, so you can play it as you wish :>

We can even influence his decision to go straight home by doing something like spilling coffee on him.  Although if he is buying groceries chances are he won't be making a lot of other stops anyway.

Hmm, when Caduceus gets to Copperhead's van, will he be leaving his wind spirit's domain?  I know vehicles don't typically count as a different domain, but he would no longer be under the open sky if he goes inside.

The vehicle would still be under the open sky - depending on where I drive.

Not sure where the best place is for Noruas.  We really need to get him a wireless tap that's fast enough for his deck so we can plug him in and leave his meat in the van so no-one has to babysit him.  My leaning is to use the passcode that we know to get the three of you into the apartment using the passcode I watched him type in.  Then quietly break into a nearby apartment (maybe on a different floor) and let Noruas jack in so he can make sure there's no panic-button pushes.

The ideal would be to enter an apartment next door and use a hand-drill to make a small hole through the drywall and insulation and pop a fiber-optic scope through so White Duck can cast a spell on one of them to react well to someone at the door.  Then Caduceus can knock and all is good.

If Caduceus is able to make himself look like anyone, another possibility is to change to look like a neighbor and go knock on the door.  I don't mind taking an hour or two to get a sufficient read on a neighbor to be able to fake it enough.

Another possibility is to just stake out the place and wait for one or both to leave which reduces the chance of a mess.

If Noruas can take over the cameras and any security devices, another possibility would be to pick/crack the lock to his place (while we have a noisy distraction outside to cover the noise, then have the three of you burst in and subdue them.

Another option is for me to blast a bunch of stun rounds through the window, but I agree that's definitely a last resort.

I don't think a simple knock on the door by a stranger is going to fly.  TeeHee just ripped off chips worth a million nuyen a few days ago.  I doubt his guard has dropped enough for his old prof to just open the door to a stranger.

Depends on whether we can convince him that we're there to help out, not kill the guy. He may not be hiding out from our employer.

Our employer is the company he stole the chips from.  He sure *ought* to be hiding from us...

You've got to presume he's feeling pretty paranoid at the moment.  He's run to ground at the home of a friend.  A stranger knocking on the door probably isn't going to get a great reception - and we probably won't get to the "I'm friendly" part of the conversation before things start to go badly.

Besides which - we're not really that friendly.  We need the chips.  Tee Hee took the chips.  Either we take them from him, or we need him to tell who he sold them to and do whatever we need to to extract that information and potentially ensure his assistance in getting them back.

Even if that goes well, whoever we end up taking the chips from isn't going to be thrilled with TeeHee selling them out/assisting us.  It's pretty hard to see how us showing up can possibly be a positive thing for him given the background we know at the moment.

So I think we need to presume that either trickery or some form of non-cooperative acquisition is going to have to be involved here.

I like the idea of setting up shop next door or at least a nearby apartment.  But in this case, we would need someone to check and see if the apartments next to, above, or below the target are occupied.  So if Caduceus and Copperhead could please do us the honor of scoping the place out before we set up shop.

Is it just me, or do I get the feeling that our dear Tee Hee might be set up to be a patsy?  And would it be paranoid of me, if I were to ask that Copperhead and Caduceus scan our surroundings once more to be sure we're not being tracked to lead people to our target?

That company seems divided at this point- maybe he's afraid of Junior and not Manes? That's my theory.



Valid point, but I want to knock on the door to gather intel more than anything else. There are thousands of ways I can do that without informing either of them that we're a team of runners.



Speak for CH on this one, but Duck's a nice, reasonable fellow. Uncharacteristic for the line of work, of course, but he's got his reasons. Anyway, we went the torture route last time and while it worked, it ended up being ultimately unnecessary. I doubt he still has the chips, hell, I'd stack Duck's entire mission pay against it. It would be too easy for everything to be resolved in a smash and grab. If we want his assistance and don't want to worry about him trying to put one over on us, we'll need to play nice. I strongly believe we'll need his assistance.



This is why who we end up taking the chips from is going to require a not-so-nice resolution. They aren't going to be thrilled with us taking the chips, no matter what Tee Hee ends up doing, and if we're unconcerned with him enough to not want to even try to try reasoning with him, why would his well-being ultimately matter to our objective?



I agree, but hear me out-

-Cadeuces provides astral overwatch, maybe summons a few spirits to prevent escape.
-CH provides drone overwatch.
-Nouras sets up shop and provides Duck with any additional relevant info via comms.
-Duck knocks on their door, then calmly explains that us finding these chips is Tee-Hee's best shot at keeping his hoop in tact- we can even offer to get the guy out of town for an additional fee.

They get spooked and try to escape? We already have the building surrounded, and I doubt either one of them are martial arts experts, so it's likely Duck could knock them both out before they even get a chance to leave the apartment.

They refuse to cooperate outright and get past/disable/kill Duck? We already have the building surrounded, and will have several options for ventilating them.

They don't want to work with Duck or take him seriously? We utilize *one* of our angles in a threatening way, like having one of CH's drones put a bullethole in the fridge or something, to make them aware we're serious.

My reasoning here is that while you may be right, defaulting to a plan B capture/coerce/kill scenario shouldn't be our first go-to, especially since Tee-Hee and Hendrix don't seem to be dangerous. If they happen to be dangerous, we can set up around them and have it covered.

@Noruas: I did do a sweep of the area once and I'm continuing to keep an eye out - that's why I won't be going into the apartment - at least not physically.

I agree that TeeHee is likely a fall-guy and almost certainly doesn't have the chips.  That doesn't mean he won't fire a shotgun at the face of anyone who walks through the door though.

@White Duck:
We don't have any evidence to suggest he wouldn't be afraid of everyone at Global Technologies.  TeeHee essentially stabbed Urian in the back.  And while Urian didn't specifically say to ice TeeHee, he did say he didn't care what happened to him - so there's no love lost at this point.  There's no reason to think TeeHee's initial reaction to us is going to be positive.

Note: I'm not advocating for torture - certainly not as a first play.  I'm happy to do the good cop thing.  But I think just knocking on the door and planning to not get shot is super-risky.  So my leaning is to do the "nice cop" thing once we have him and his buddy under control.  We *don't* have to do that by shooting him in the head first this time though :>

I like your plan up until you knock on the door.  If you were laying low expecting a corp to come after you (or possibly multiple corps) and a stranger comes and knocks on the door after getting through a "secure" entrance, I'm pretty sure fight or flight's going to kick in.

Now, you may get lucky and they may put a gun on you and not pull the trigger and listen to you long enough to put the gun down.  Or they could:
- shoot you before you have a chance to do much more than knock
- call for backup (who knows what friends Hendrix has) or even just hit a panic-button or attract the attention of a bunch of friendly neighbors or a gang
- trigger some sort of trap (Hendrix is big on Matrix technology, so he may well have some fancy thingy engineered)
- head out some other secret escape we know nothing about and don't have covered
- do something unpleasant neither of us have anticipated

None of those things are easy to mitigate against.  You'd be relying on them either trusting you and letting you in or letting you in at gunpoint before they'd hear your story.  I'd put the first at <5% odds and the second at around 30-40% odds.  But that leaves 55%+ that we don't have covered and some of those options go *very* badly for you.


I'm gathering that your powers don't extend to "look like someone specific"?  How about "look like someone very unthreatening" -say an old man or a granny or something?  That might improve your odds from <45% into the 80%+ range.  Copperhead probably still won't approve, but she doesn't like you enough yet to try too hard to stop you ;>

Note that in terms of drone options, I can fire through the window with an LMG.  Beyond that, I'd need to get the scorpion into the apartment (which could stab one of them in the leg and knock them out) or you can carry the briefcase (which could knock them out quite quickly).  So no bullet in the fridge without making a lot of noise and breaking some glass.

Can your scorpion actually knock them out?  Like inject them with something?  We could try sneaking that in to subdue them and go from there.  Caduceus could have a hearth spirit help conceal it.

I also doubt he'd be a surgeon with a shotgun.



True, but I got the impression from the conversation with Manes that even though TeeHee betrayed him, he still cares. He might have said he didn't care, but that's a common thing to say about someone you're angry with.



Maybe so, but Duck would be the only one at risk in that situation, and he's a bit of a gambler. Alternatively we could wait on Hendrix to leave, swipe his key or do a little B&E, and get Tee-Hee alone, but I'm inclined to think that they'd feel safer and thus more likely to cooperate if they were both there.


I don't think that there's an expectation that Tee-Hee will even be found. We'll have the flight angle covered, and Duck's all about nonlethal damage if the fight angle is taken.


-Being shot by a base amateur is a risk Duck would be willing to take.\
-If these guys had backup, wouldn't they already have that backup around, what with them fearing for their safety and all? The odds Dr. Hendrix knows a go-gang might be present, but those seem like some really long odds.
-Fancy matrix trap you say? Well, no datajack installed here.
-Secret escape route built into an apartment complex? Too convenient to really be viable. Seems the odds on that are pretty long too. Still possible, but I feel our group's recon skills are strong enough to find them if they exist.
-We can't anticipate every possible unpleasantry, that's just a part of this game. We can go out of our way to negate the consequences of failed risks, but nobody expects or knows when a killer troll with a panther cannon that's having a bad day is going to come around the corner.



Nah, I'm not relying on *anything*, and my character, as a face, sort of has to get into situations where the outcome could be very bad all the time. In this case, he'd only be risking his own hoop, and to him, those circumstances are absolutely ideal. Right now, as it stands, we have the option and the possibility of a non-hostile approach working out, with a solid list of contingencies we can take if things *do* go wrong. As a player, OOC, I *know* it's a gamble, but rationally, it's going to be REALLY inconvenient for these guys to shoot or maim an unarmed man and get away with it. They'd have to deal with having committed a felony, probably having to talk to the cops, and possibly even having to dispose of a body. I think that when you consider the risks *they* would have to take if they did something drastic, it makes them doing something incredibly stupid far less likely. I anticipate that they'll be INCREDIBLY testy, but I think Duck has the skills to crack them without it resorting to violence. Heck, I designed him to be ready for it if it does.


Duck already has the Friendly Face edge, which will come into play here statistically without needing a disguise. Disguise isn't a skill he has yet, but I definitely intend on investing in it for future runs.



Can the scorpion get into the ventilation system? Maybe we can plant it on-site prior to making our move?

By the way, I know you aren't trying to be contrary at all, and I really appreciate your insights on this, CH. It's good to consider as many factors as we can prior to acting. That said, I think knocking on the guy's door is still a solid approach. Alternatively, we can wait on him to go on a grocery run again and try to hit up Tee-Hee whilst he's away, but I think having the two split up makes the situation more complicated and potentially hostile.

In reply to Caduceus (msg # 211):

Duck can knock them both out.

I am less worried about our ability to take them out and more worried about them being able to activate some computer doodad before we are able to.  Both are skilled with the matrix and could have contingencies set up if anything were to happen.  With a press of a button they could notify backup that they need help, activate drones, wipe their hard drives, etc.  Heck, even using Hendrix's own pass code for the apartment could trigger a warning or activate a security camera or something.  Their physical and magical security sucks, but I would be surprised if their matrix security was the same.  That was why I was interested in knocking them out before they even knew we were there.

Also, if we are assuming Tee Hee is a fall guy, would the people who set him up be keeping tabs on him?

What if we knock out trix access?

We should definitely do that.  But there is also a good chance they might notice us trying to do that with Noruas jacked in.  Unless we do something like sever the matrix equivalent of a landline or cut power to the whole building, which bring up their own sets of issues.

Also, anybody know what matrix geometry actually is?

Cutting power, hmm? Might add to our shock factor and make them more compliant. Maybe that's what CH's scorpion drone could be up to? Still, for the sake of discretion we should make the outage as localized as possible.

Oh, I like that!  Cut power to Hendrix's apartment and pose as a neighbor or something, asking if their power went out too.  Maybe ask to borrow a flashlight?

That would get Duck's foot in the door, so to speak, and also neutralize what is probably their strongest asset that could be used in their defense.

TeeHee has no way to know how Urian feels - they've had no contact since the theft, so I'd expect TeeHee to assume the worst.  We certainly can't base our plan on anything other than that.

Challenge with posing as a neighbor is we have no idea whether Hendrix knows all of his neighbors or not.  Nor whether this is the "helpful neighbor" type of apartment block.  So posing as a neighbor could be a red flag.  It could also cause the hallways to clog up with folks and make them pay attention to more about what's going on around them - which might not be in our best interest.

Scorpion is unlikely to be able to cut the power without getting fried - and not willing to incur that cost when a tiny amount of C4 and a detonator can do the job more effectively and cheaply.

I don't recall any indication these fellows were surgeons.  I thought both were techies.  In either event, one of them just committed a major theft and has presumably had interactions with a buyer.  Presuming that they're both unarmed and un-trained is a significant assumption.  Shadowrunners and cops aren't necessarily the only people in Seattle who know how to shoot a gun . . .

Backup is, by definition, people who have other things to do but come when they're called.  They may not have money to pay for full time guards, but that doesn't mean they don't have friends.

I don't think Papa said anything about no matrix connection.  Certainly that couldn't have been assessed from astral and we haven't done any physical recon except an aerial from outside.  I'd be astounded if a former matrix prof would have an apartment without a decent connection.

Agree that secret escape route is relatively low probability/risk.  The real point is there's lots of unknowns.


I was confusing White Duck's abilities with Caduceus's.  How about we try the following:
- White Duck, Noruas and Caduceus get into the apartment complex using Hendrix's matrix code and take over an apartment that's nearby (you can use my lock-cracking tools as needed)
- Noruas scopes out the matrix and tries to disable panic-buttons or anything else that looks problematic
- White Duck goes astral and checks to makes sure none of the neighbors are home or look like they're in a mood to cause trouble
- We see if we can stick the scorpion into a ventilation duct to get eyes-in if Noruas can't get camera access (but odds are all the scorpion will be able to do is watch)
- Caduceus turns himself into a little old lady and White Duck tries to look non-threatening and together they go up to the door, carrying my briefcase and knock.  So long as the door opens and you're not immediately shot, we're good.  My guess is two people, one of whom is a little old lady will get treated as Jehovah's Witness or Universal Brotherhood or some equivalent
- If the two of you can talk your way in, great.  If not, once the door is open, there should be no issue with the three of us being able to take them down quickly and quietly - the only question is whether we'll have to knock them out.  An opening line (after the door's open) of "TeeHee's in danger" or something like that should be enough to throw them off balance in a non-threatening way for you to get sufficiently inside to control the situation.
- Copperhead can jump into the briefcase or the hover-drone as needed and can provide overwatch from outside while any discussions are going on.

I think cutting the power is an unnecessary complication.  It means Noruas can't do matrix overwatch and it's likely to draw the attention of other residents and maybe outsiders and doesn't really help us much.

(And I'm not trying to be contrarian either - just want to make sure we're all working from the same set of assumptions and making sure we probe the assumptions to make sure they're solid. :>)

The plan isn't based on Manes' feelings, but whether or not we're concerned about Tee Hee's well-being. Regardless of what Manes thinks, it wouldn't really affect our approach.



Agreed, which is why I'd prefer an honest approach.



No need to waste explosives in my opinion. I'm not really concerned about any concealed missile turrets or anything, and they can't touch me with IC. Why would they alert the authorities when they're on the run and we're offering to help?



I'm not assuming they don't/won't know how to shoot, I'm going off of the assumption that they aren't going to have a reason to. Think about it, they just committed a major theft. They think Tee Hee is safe, otherwise there'd be more readily apparent muscle present. Us getting the drop on them is going to really let the surprise of the situation work in our favor.



If they had friends, why are they holing up in a shithole apartment? I think Tee Hee's already gone to one of the few people who could help, and since this theft can add up to millions in profits, they'd both be in a safer place right now if they could be, but they aren't.



Agreed, he's probably connected. I still don't know exactly how dangerous this'll be anyway to anyone except for Nouras, and that'd be if Nouras wanted to bat at the hornet's nest. If they hit a panic button, maybe it's who'd come calling we'd need to be dealing with anyway. No-one but Duck would be on-site, and he's got considerable enough stealth skill to stand a great chance of escape in that contingency. Still, I seriously doubt Hendrix OR Tee-hee are massive threats. I'm well aware that we shouldn't underestimate any potential threats, but all evidence leads to this being more of a regular-type estimation. If Tee Hee or Hendrix knew the big bad wolf and had the capacity to take us out or do anything more than hide, he'd have done it.


There ALWAYS are unknowns. It doesn't mean we should never act when presented with an opportunity. I'm concerned that the more elaborate we get with these shenanigans, the higher the chance of us tipping them off and blowing the one thing we absolutely have going for us- surprise.



Sorry, breaking into an apartment of an unknown neighbor brings way more unknown and uncontrollable factors into this situation than us simply knocking on the door.



Sure, but if they're nova-hot deckers, it may be an unnecessarily difficult task for our decker that could once again tip them off that something's up.


You mean Cadeuces? Just astral perception here. Also, since we need info out of these guys and won't go loud unless absolutely necessary, the neighbors are either going to mind their own business or be a minor issue if your fears are correct and these two are secretly controlling the minions of hell or something.


Then let's keep it nearby as combat backup if need be.



I would be absolutely flabbergasted if the scenario of us opening the door and instantly shooting at us took place, unless of course we've somehow managed to tip them off.



Impersonating a group people normally ignore or tell to go away doesn't start us off on good footing. Why can't I knock on the door, let Hendrix know we've got a team surrounding the building if he/they try to bolt, and come across as someone trying to help them out of a bad situation instead? If Tee Hee fears a team of runners is after him, what motivation would he have to go fight or flight if we just tell him we're really just after the chips? Killing a very distinct-looking, unarmed albino in broad daylight isn't a very good way to stay hidden, but actually cooperating so you can breathe easily and not live in fear is going to look like a very sparkly, pretty option.

Absolutely, and worst-case scenario would be the only scenario we'd need it, but it's definitely needed.


I think impersonating a religious solicitor, breaking into a nearby apartment, and utilizing c-4 in any way for this particular stage of ops are all unnecessary complications, too.

Here's a breakdown-
-We know where they are.
-They don't know we know where they are.
-They don't know who we are.
-Unless these guys are already WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more powerful or in control than any party involved assumes they are, they aren't very secure at all.
-That said, if they start to run, Duck can probably kick the crap out of them.
-If I'm way wrong and Duck is hosed, we've got drones buzzing around outside the building that can ensure they won't be leaving without repercussions.
-This knock-out/kidnapping/interrogation thing is going to be INCREDIBLY conspicuous. That's when we'd really have to worry about the neighbors getting involved. I mean WTH, if these guys are being watched and all of the counterpoints you've brought up against a friendly approach are true, well um, they're gonna notice us taking overt hostile action too.
-That said, I don't get why the friendly honest approach is being perceived as a more dangerous option here. Sure Hendrix might be a sociopathic shoot first and ask questions later then drink tea that evening kinda guy, but if we give them ANY reason to think they need to be on guard, desperate people do desperate things. A single unarmed man who approaches them with an offer of help just seems like a lot less likely to make someone trigger happy than us lying to them, kicking in the door if they don't buy it, hog tying them, carrying them outside, and throwing them into the back of the van. If the friendly approach doesn't work, we can still do all of that, we face the exact same possible negative outcomes with either approach, but if we go hostile right away, we're completely eliminating the possibility that Tee Hee is going to help voluntarily and without threat. In other words, we're eliminating a potentially huge gain in the form of a helpful pair of deckers who apparently just want to be safe.

Baring new information, I think White Duck's plan has won me over.  For the most part.  We know half the apartments are empty, so I still think it would be beneficial to enter one of them and get Noruas a close connection and Caduceus a place to summon local spirits (can't do it while projecting).  Also, I had Caduceus check the building layout on the astral to check for things like secret passages, but I probably didn't make that very clear.

My suggestion is we have White Duck do his thing with the knocking.  Noruas can keep an eye on the matrix and try to head off any suspicious activity.  Copperhead can keep overwatch and shoot them down if they somehow make it outside.  Caduceus can summon spirits to give Duck backup if needed.  Caduceus can monitor the situation from astral space, and if Duck keeps his astral perception up, Caduceus can use a mind link spell to keep in verbal contact with the group, providing inel and commanding his summoned spirit in an emergency.