Author  Message [bottom]
GammaBear
 member, 704 posts
 Gaymer
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 21:28
 msg #1
Posting in another Language.
Okay, so in the games, you can set up different language groups, right? So, can I not post something in a language that the particular group doesn't have access to?

For example, I want to post something in Draconic, but it's not giving me the option, only the languages the group has access to.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15249 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 22:02
moderator post | [quote] | [reply] | msg #2
Posting in another Language.
The language groups just scramble the text that you enter, and only people with the appropriate language see the unscrambled version.

So if the language group you want in the game has not been set up by the GM, you can still just post some garbled text, with exactly the same result (nobody in the group can understand it, so they just see gibberish).

A GM can also set up a language group and assign nobody to that group, then only he can use it.  Again, the players would just see nonsense.
GammaBear
 member, 705 posts
 Gaymer
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 22:08
 msg #3
Posting in another Language.
I am the GM, and that's not happening. I have all the language groups set up, but the only options for languages I'm getting are the ones to which this particular group have access. I would have thought as the GM, I could post in any language, but it's not giving me that option.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15250 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 22:11
moderator post | [quote] | [reply] | msg #4
Posting in another Language.
You can't post to a group that doesn't exist.

In the GM Menu, go to Edit Private Groups, and you can set up a Group that none of the players have access to.
GammaBear
 member, 706 posts
 Gaymer
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 22:55
 msg #5
Posting in another Language.
That didn't work, either. I guess I'll just have to wing it. :/
LoreGuard
 member, 627 posts
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 23:06
 msg #6
Posting in another Language.
Did you try adding the languages to your GM character you are posting as?
GammaBear
 member, 707 posts
 Gaymer
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 23:07
 msg #7
Posting in another Language.
Doesn't GM already have access to everything?
bigbadron
 moderator, 15251 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 23:16
moderator post | [quote] | [reply] | msg #8
Posting in another Language.
Odd.  As a GM, all you need to do is add the name you want to use for the Group to the list, and it should work (just tested it again, and it worked fine for me).
GammaBear
 member, 708 posts
 Gaymer
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 23:25
 msg #9
Posting in another Language.
I don't know then. When I go to the Insert Line tab, the only language groups showing up are the ones the players have access to, and I have all the D&D 5e languages set up as their own group. *shrug*
bigbadron
 moderator, 15252 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 23:30
moderator post | [quote] | [reply] | msg #10
Posting in another Language.
rMail the Mods with a link to the game, and we'll take a look at it for you.
GammaBear
 member, 709 posts
 Gaymer
Tue 10 Jan 2017
at 23:34
 msg #11
Posting in another Language.
Will do. Thanks.
jase
 admin, 3516 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 01:44
admin post | [quote] | [reply] | msg #12
Posting in another Language.
Yes you as a GM can see all groups, but can any player who can read the thread also see the group?

When you're posting a reply to a thread it will only show those groups that the characters with access to the thread also have access to.  It strips off any groups that it's impossible for anyone to see.

It does a similar thing with the "private to" section.  That will strip off any characters who don't have access to the thread.

In case that didn't make much sense (highly likely), if you have two characters;

 - Character 1 - Access to group 1
 - Character 2 - Access to group 2

 - Private group A - Access granted to character 1
 - Private group B - Access granted to character 1 and 2

If you post a new thread you'll see both private groups.  If you post a reply to a thread assigned to group 1 then you'll see both private groups.  However if you post a reply to a thread assigned to group 2 then you'll only see "Private group B".

Why?

Nobody who has access to the thread (character 2) has access to "Private group A".  Only "Character 1" has access to it, and they have no way of viewing the thread.  It's (99.99% of the time) pointless to give the option.

If you really want to post to the group then you'll have to manually enter the text.  But you might as well post it to group GHJYUIEWABCSAJHE for all the good it'll do, nobody will be able to see it.
GammaBear
 member, 710 posts
 Gaymer
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 01:46
 msg #13
Posting in another Language.
Hmmm. Okay. Seems to kinda defeat the point of having PLGs, but I get what you're saying. I guess I'll just have to look online for a language randomizer or something. Thanks, Jase.
LoreGuard
 member, 628 posts
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 02:29
 msg #14
Posting in another Language.
Simply add a librarian or historian NPC into the group for that and other threads, then add any/all languages to it and there you go.  Or as jase says use an existing language and then change the language name.
aguy777
 member, 163 posts
 Join Date:
 Fri, 29 Nov, 2013
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 02:38
 msg #15
Posting in another Language.
You can also type out the code like this:
Language Draconic: "Text goes here."
(put a '[' at the beginning, and a ']' at the end)

That will have the same affect as selecting to post in a language. Still, everyone will just see gibberish. Just hitting keys randomly will give pretty much the same affect.
GammaBear
 member, 711 posts
 Gaymer
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 02:40
 msg #16
Posting in another Language.
In reply to LoreGuard (msg # 14):

The problem with that is then they'll be able to read it. The point is that it's in a language no one in that group knows.

I would rather post "You see an archway with the phrase [insert draconic here]," instead of "You see an archway with a phrase in a strange language."

Just kind of breaks the immersion in my opinion.
LoreGuard
 member, 629 posts
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 04:15
 msg #17
Posting in another Language.
No, only the players who can speak the language would be able to read it.  Which based on your description, you say none would.  Unless you assign the NPC in question to on of the players to play, in which case only that one could.  If you leave the NPC assigned to you, only you could(which you could anyway being a GM, should see all private lines)
bigbadron
 moderator, 15253 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 06:40
moderator post | [quote] | [reply] | msg #18
Re: Posting in another Language.
GammaBear:
Hmmm. Okay. Seems to kinda defeat the point of having PLGs,

Not really.  The point of language groups is that they allow you to post something that everybody with access to the thread can see, but only a specific set of them can read.  If nobody with access to the thread can read the language, then its quicker to just type random letters.
jase
 admin, 3517 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 06:46
admin post | [quote] | [reply] | msg #19
Re: Posting in another Language.
GammaBear:
Seems to kinda defeat the point of having PLGs

Maybe I'm missing it but I'm not sure how.

The benefit of PLGs is they'll hide for everyone who can't see them, and show for everyone who can.

In the above example (and in the thread you were using in your game) nobody can see the PLG, so there'd be no point inserting it -- there's no point inserting text that nobody can see.

Language groups would, admittedly, show something, but the randomisation routine really makes nonsensical crap.  "Ndwimi fiouis hatr ver po" for one person, "Riinle olacse men ri lihi" for the next.  I've used trigrams etc to try and make it not totally silly, and I think it does a pretty good job, but it's still randomised (and randomised for every refresh of the page).

quote:
Just kind of breaks the immersion in my opinion.

You don't need to make it as jarring as your example, you've completely rewritten the sentence so you're not comparing equivalents.  Make it as close to what you want without the orange text.  If you don't need the automatic scrambling of a language group (and in this instance you don't) then wouldn't you rather players see;

  You see an archway with the phrase "Krak tu mrak lo fah".

Than;

  You see an archway with the phrase [Language unknown:  Ndwimi fiouis hatr ver po].

Without using the language tag you've got full control over what's displayed, rather than only part, plus you don't have the orange colouring drawing attention to it all.

I'm really proud of the language groups, but to me it only fills its purpose if there's someone there to read the unscrambled text!  Nobody in group 7 in your game can read Draconian.

Manually doing the Draconic words also allows you to reuse words later.  The language group purposefully generates new random words every time otherwise resourceful users would be able to create their own descramblers.  But if you were using your own, static, translations then you could start to give them hints.  "Hey, I think 'krak' could mean 'beware'!".


Digressing (but possibly helpful) some people want to slowly give hints about the language, or at least have proper control over what's displayed, which is why there's the "NOT" keyword for groups.  Not to mention the powerful "secret" option, which shows no colouring (or additional text) at all.

For example if you wrote;

  You see an archway with the phrase [Secret to group Draconian: "Krak tu mrak lo fah".  You recognise this as Draconian, which translates to "Welcome all weary travellers".][Secret to not group Draconian: "Krak tu mrak lo fah", clearly some nonsensical guttural language.]

Those who can speak Draconian see;

  You see an archway with the phrase "Krak tu mrak lo fah".  You recognise this as Draconian, which translates to "Welcome all weary travellers".

Those who don't see;

  You see an archway with the phrase "Krak tu mrak lo fah", clearly some nonsensical guttural language.

Later if there's another sign that says "Welcome to your doom" you could report it as saying "Krak pa vel prak", repeating your translation for krak/welcome.
LonePaladin
 member, 548 posts
 Creator of HeroForge
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 06:52
 msg #20
Re: Posting in another Language.
There is one possible scenario in which this might come up: if one of the characters has something that will temporarily grant him access to that language (or all of them). When that becomes active, the GM edits that character's language groups to reflect the addition, and the player can now go back into the relevant thread and review the post -- but now with the ability to understand the language.

So the GM can add it early, say by making it in another group then copy-pasting it -- and tell the player to go back if he later gains the ability to understand it.

Edit:
jase:
Not to mention the powerful "secret" option, which shows no colouring (or additional text) at all.

I love this feature. I once used it in a game to have an NPC surreptitiously flirting with one of the PCs. She kept reacting to it, and none of the other players knew what was getting her riled up.

This message was last edited by the user at 06:56, Wed 11 Jan 2017.

jase
 admin, 3518 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 09:50
admin post | [quote] | [reply] | msg #21
Re: Posting in another Language.
LonePaladin:
There is one possible scenario in which this might come up: if one of the characters has something that will temporarily grant him access to that language (or all of them). When that becomes active, the GM edits that character's language groups to reflect the addition, and the player can now go back into the relevant thread and review the post -- but now with the ability to understand the language.

That and a few others are absolutely valid uses, but they're pretty advanced requirements/utilisations of the feature, I'd expect/help such a GM would be able to hand-craft the private/language line themselves.

I realise there's some very legitimate but fringe reasons to use it and fully endorse you doing what you will with your game, it's yours after all.  However with all the characters, groups, secret, language and whatever else I've forgotten options, the list under "Insert a private line:" can get absolutely huge and unwieldy.  To try and steam-line the list any impossible (at the time) combinations are removed from the list.  It also helps let GMs know what is, and isn't, possible for the current thread.  I'm thinking general populace here, and (at a complete guess) I suspect most would prefer it as it currently is; removing redundant choices.
LoreGuard
 member, 630 posts
Wed 11 Jan 2017
at 20:56
 msg #22
Re: Posting in another Language.
That's why my suggestion to GammaBear was to add an NPC to the thread's group, and add that NPC with access to any relevant languages you might want to use in that setting, and those languages will begin to show up in the thread because of the NPC.  However, no-one will know what those languages are except for you (or if you accidentally/intentionally assign that NPC to one of the players)

That would allow you to start leaving messages for people in Draconic, and allow them to be added to Draconic group later, via learning it or magic.  That still leaves the question of if you would want someone who just learned the language to suddenly understand a conversation they heard of a foreign language a month ago.  But technically, if the player went back and reviewed history, that is what would happen with the Private/Language groups.

I too used the secret messages before to give people who made perception checks extra information without actually making them realize they had extra information that others didn't have.
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