praguepride
 member, 1261 posts
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 - Warhammer Fluffy-K
Tue 17 Apr 2018
at 22:21
DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
The GYRO system as they're calling it assembles a dice pool and by default takes the result of the MIDDLE die.

Using the system on hand you can drop the lowest or highest but you can't take the middle result of the three dice rolled.

For more details:

Assemble a dice pool of three dice ranging from d4 to d12.
Roll and based upon scenarios, take MIN, MID, MAX or some combination like MIN+MAX or MIN+MID+MAX and that is your "result" number.
Mr_Qwerty
 member, 56 posts
 Tagmar, D&D, oWoD
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Wed 18 Apr 2018
at 02:36
DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
As a matter of fact, could we get a generic dice pool? Don't list the sum, just the results of the dice in order from lowest to highest (or vice versa, same thing) so we can decide the result for ourselves. Would be good for a bunch of systems like Dark Coast, Legends of the Wulin and other niche systems that use baroque rules for dice pools.
LonePaladin
 member, 717 posts
 Creator of HeroForge
Wed 18 Apr 2018
at 03:25
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
Mr_Qwerty:
As a matter of fact, could we get a generic dice pool? Don't list the sum, just the results of the dice in order from lowest to highest (or vice versa, same thing) so we can decide the result for ourselves.

You can partly achieve this by checking the "Record Each Die" box on the die-roller page. It'll work whether you're using the drop-down or an odd set entered manually. It won't sort the results, though.

Hm. Maybe jase could rejigger the die roller so that this option sorts the results.
Utsukushi
 member, 1448 posts
 I should really stay out
 of this, I know...but...
Wed 18 Apr 2018
at 03:36
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
Sometimes it's important to know what order they happened in, like if you need to know how many times you tried something before succeeding (or failing).

If there are a lot of cases where people would want them sorted, then we'd need a new option for that, instead.
horus
 member, 460 posts
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Wed 18 Apr 2018
at 14:53
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
Utsukushi:
Sometimes it's important to know what order they happened in, like if you need to know how many times you tried something before succeeding (or failing).

If there are a lot of cases where people would want them sorted, then we'd need a new option for that, instead.

Yup.  This is entirely correct. Order of results does sometimes take on some importance in certain situations.  That gives rise to a question:  does the dice roller cast dice strictly in the order selected?

That is: does [dice=1d4,1d6,1d8,1d10,1d12,record=yes] always evaluate in the stated order?  My earlier experiments with the dice roller would suggest this is, in fact, the case.

Perhaps more interestingly, would [dice=8d10,record=yes] display unsorted or sorted results?  My experiments in this respect are so far not conclusive, but it appears they are unsorted, and occur one after the other in order rolled.

Drifting just a bit, I wonder what the deviation between the middle die and the arithmetic mean of all dice would be?  I'll have to noodle on this some, I guess.

Praguepride, let me see if I've got the tentative specs right:  the dice pool is a subset of three dice selected from the set {1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12}.  How are these three selected (rules-wise), or does that matter?

Finding the mid value of any subset of three dice is a near-trivial "by inspection" operation, but I understand the desire to have the dice roller do the lifting.  (I won't go so far as to say "heavy lifting" here...)

It seems, from reading the original post, that other permutations of results need to be selectable for display from any given roll of three dice.  I guess selection of dice and permutation desired would all be situation- and system-dependent?

The only question that remains to be settled would seem to be how to get the dice roller to display the intermediate result, i.e. how to get it to drop both the low and the high result?

One last question:  what happens when two dice, say the d6 and the d4, roll the same values?  The result here would depend on what the third die showed, maybe?

I gotta get downrange just now, but I will look at this more when I have time this evening.

This message was last edited by the user at 03:27, Thu 19 Apr.

Mr_Qwerty
 member, 57 posts
 Tagmar, D&D, oWoD
 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Wed 18 Apr 2018
at 15:56
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
Utsukushi:
Sometimes it's important to know what order they happened in, like if you need to know how many times you tried something before succeeding (or failing).

If there are a lot of cases where people would want them sorted, then we'd need a new option for that, instead.


That wouldn't be a dice pool, though, but rather a number of successive rolls. Dice pools by definition consist on rolling a previously known number of dice and either only adding some of them  together or counting how many of them are over or under a certain threshold. Storyteller does that, early Shadowrun does that, Legend of the Wulin relies on multiple dies rolling the same result, and Dark Coast relies on selecting the result of a single die after removing the <difficulty> highest and <skill> lowest dice, and from what OP says, the Sentinels system also works like that: you roll, look at the results, and then pick some of them depending on circumstances. It's just easier if the dice are sorted, and the naive total doesn't help on any of these cases.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15540 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Wed 18 Apr 2018
at 16:17
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
When the option to roll multiple separate dice was requested, keeping them in the order they were rolled was also requested.  Effectively they weren't asking for a dice pool, but for a way to make X consecutive rolls as a single operation, while keeping the results in order.

That is unlikely to change at this stage, though a new option to sort them could probably be added (or even a totally new system type).
horus
 member, 461 posts
 Wayfarer of the
 Western Wastes
Thu 19 Apr 2018
at 03:46
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
Mr_Qwerty:
...and the naive total doesn't help on any of these cases.


That's why record=yes is turned on (or, equivalently, the "Record each die" box in the dice roller is checked), to allow one to see each die rolled as well as the total.
Mr_Qwerty
 member, 58 posts
 Tagmar, D&D, oWoD
 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Thu 19 Apr 2018
at 20:33
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
In reply to horus (msg # 8):

I use that when I need a generic dice pool, but it's still on me to sort the results, and outside of WEG D6 games the total is just noise. Compare and contrast with the all of the different specialized rolls in the "Game System / Special Dice" drop-down box.
horus
 member, 462 posts
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Fri 20 Apr 2018
at 02:44
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
In reply to Mr_Qwerty (msg # 9):

Sure.  Just got hung up on the phrase "naive total", I think.  My error.

Despite all the discussion, it's really up to jase as to whether he would want to support another system-specific option in the dice roller.

It might be interesting to set up the ability to do comparisons to a target number using <, >, <=, =>, <>, and/or =.  It might be done as, for example:

[dice=1d4,1d6,1d8 target=4 test=>target] which would count results greater than or equal to the target of 4 as successes/dice pool members.

I've no idea how difficult such a proposal would be to implement in the current dice roller, though.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15541 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Fri 20 Apr 2018
at 03:34
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
There are already systems in there that count up the number of successes, and just give the result as "3 successes" or whatever.

Note, however, that the addition of a system to the roller pretty much needs a published game system that requires it - requesting something because "it might be interesting" is probably not going to fly.
horus
 member, 463 posts
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Fri 20 Apr 2018
at 04:32
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
bigbadron:
There are already systems in there that count up the number of successes, and just give the result as "3 successes" or whatever.

Note, however, that the addition of a system to the roller pretty much needs a published game system that requires it - requesting something because "it might be interesting" is probably not going to fly.


I wasn't proposing a system-specific thing, but more of an expansion of the dice roller's syntax to permit configuring tests of the results of dice rolls.

Admittedly, I was trying to engineer a way to accommodate more system-specific stuff by making new ways to configure the dice roller rather than writing a new module or plug-in for it.

Whenever I see a request for a particular solution, I first try to think of it in terms of "how would we do this generally".  General solutions tend to be more flexible and versatile than particular ones.
praguepride
 member, 1262 posts
 "Hugs for the Hugs God!"
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Mon 23 Apr 2018
at 22:36
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
Sorry for posting this in the wrong forum but this IS a published system:

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/pr...ing-Game-Starter-Kit

https://www.amazon.com/Greater...Comics/dp/B071W7PWX2

The GYRO system works by generating a 3 dice pool of varying sizes (d4-d12), rolling them and then having effects that trigger off of the mid/min/max die.

I think the easiest way to implement this would be as described above where you have an option to order your results from lowest to highest (or vice versa).
horus
 member, 466 posts
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Mon 23 Apr 2018
at 23:57
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
In reply to praguepride (msg # 13):

Yeah... I think the "published game system vs. might be interesting" thing was to my attention.  Sorry if I derailed for a bit there.

"Sorting" the rolls in your dice pool could be accomplished in the present roller by stating the desire rolls in the desired order, e.g.:

[dice=1d4,1d8,1d12 record=yes] would first roll a d4, then a d8, and finally a d12, and would display results in the Dice Roller log in that order.

[dice=1d4,1d8,1d12 record=yes unique=yes] would do all that, but would also eliminate ties among any of these three dice results as well.

This message was last edited by the user at 00:04, Tue 24 Apr.

praguepride
 member, 1264 posts
 "Hugs for the Hugs God!"
 - Warhammer Fluffy-K
Tue 24 Apr 2018
at 04:34
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
No it should sort the results. Currently if you roll 1d4, 1d6, 1d8 it might end up being 4,2,3 when it would be better to display 2,3,4 to more easily pick out MIN/MID/MAX
horus
 member, 467 posts
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 Western Wastes
Tue 24 Apr 2018
at 21:59
Re: DIce System Request: Sentinels RPG
praguepride:
No it should sort the results. Currently if you roll 1d4, 1d6, 1d8 it might end up being 4,2,3 when it would be better to display 2,3,4 to more easily pick out MIN/MID/MAX


Ack!  Brain-*fruit*, sorry.  You're quite right.
jase
 admin, 3592 posts
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Thu 26 Apr 2018
at 13:54
Re: Dice System Request: Sentinels RPG
Seems simple enough.  Is it always 3 dice?  Sounds like there's no other options available.

Sounds so simple actually I'm wondering why you need a system for it?  Pretty easy to figure the highest, lowest and (by a cunning process of elimination) the mid!  (c;

For the record the result list is always in the order rolled.
praguepride
 member, 1265 posts
 "Hugs for the Hugs God!"
 - Warhammer Fluffy-K
Fri 27 Apr 2018
at 23:30
Re: Dice System Request: Sentinels RPG
Not a dedicated system but just an option that sorts results lowest to highest would be nice to have.