Map: This one
Terrain: Underground (caves and dungeons)
Prep: 1 round



All adjacent numbers have stairs connecting them making transition between them only difficult terrain rather than a necessary Climb. Note it costs 3 squares of movement to move up stairs and 2 squares to move down.

OOC:  Boadicea rolled 22 using 1d20+3 with rolls of 19.  Initiative duel 193.

OOC: 20:35, Today: Bruhli rolled 10 using 1d20 with rolls of 10.  Initiative duel 193.

PM, please hold off on first round post until resolved.

Can I get your starting location please

PM




Boadicea - This is a quote from the current training match. From my understanding, we post our location on the map in initiative order. As you go first, you also post first.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:36, Sat 30 Apr 2016.

ok, I'll be in T20, just being nice and allowing you choice of location beings I go first, still need your location to finish my post when Ario gives the go ahead
This message was last edited by the player at 16:59, Sat 30 Apr 2016.

I'll need one more response from Bruhli.

I'll be in A1

PM


Boadicea, I think this is how it's supposed to go. We both post initiative. You post your location. I post my location. You take your prep round. I take my prep round. You take your round 1. I take my round 1. And then you lose after that :P

Aaand another PM

PM to Boadicea
This message was last edited by the player at 04:20, Tue 03 May 2016.

I'm going to have to ask you to edit that to include me: I'm the ref, but I don't have GM powers so I can't see pm's.

Your edit still did not include me - could you try again, please?

I see nothing, so you see what I see :)

You should both see it now. When I tried to add Ario, it just fell apart. But it should be good
This message was last edited by the player at 04:23, Tue 03 May 2016.

PM

PM

PM

Hopefully about resolved.

PM

PM

PM


LOL my auto correct wants to always change Ario to Mario or April dang autocorrect :)
This message was last edited by the player at 12:36, Fri 06 May 2016.

The solution is legitimate, game on.

   ROUND: Round prep 1 (22)
POSITION: K20
 ACTIONS: Handle Kosh  (free), Activate/Use Cloak casting spell (Standard), move T20 to K20 and draw potion (move)

 HP: 124/124 (0 nonlethal)
 AC: 13; FFAC: 10; Touch: 13
CMD: 29; FFCMD: 26; FFTAC: 10

EFFECTS: - Feats , spell 10/10
   GEAR: - Amulet , Belt , Cloak , Pill , Shirt , Potion , belt pouch, dagger, sling (ACP - 0, Load - Light)
   USES: -  Cloak: -/-, 1/1, 0/1; Potions 2/2 ; Pill 1/1 ; Rage ?/?

Kosh: Position: I18:J19, HP 81/81, [AC 28, FFAC 26, TAC 10, CMD 25, FFCMD 23, FFTAC 10, Fort +7, Refl +8, Will + 3]
 Actions: move I18:J19 to L18:M19 (move), move to G18:H19 (move)
 Effects: - Feats

DICE ROLLS:

   SUMMARY: - Boadicea handles Kosh, then activates cloak casting spell on herself finally she moves down the stairs while drawing potion, Kosh double moves so he is in a defensive position.

OOC: Here we go, wasn't expecting the Warpriest a little worried :)

PM

The sound of trinkets could be heard down the corridor long before Bruhli emerged. The little gem implanted in Bruhli’s headband was flashing rapidly. Bruhli was already angry.

“I am the herald of war. The executor of a great purpose. I fear no creature underneath the sky. No, not even you. I am a proud Suli. There is no creature that can challenge our martial prowess!”

Bruhli activated his boots and flew up in the air. Standing in the sky, Bruhli looked down at the other barbarian and pulled out his sword holding it with one hand. “BOADICEA!!!! I AM THE PERFECT WARRIOR!!! COME UP HERE AND FACE ME!”


B = Bruhli
O = Boadicea
K = Kosh


   ROUND: Prep Round #1 (10)
POSITION: A1 to I1+5
 ACTIONS: Expend use of Fervor to cast spell as swift (swift), Activate Boots (standard), Move via flight and pull out sword as part of move – holds sword with one hand (Move) .

 HP: 126/126 (0 nonlethal)
 AC: 13; FFAC: 12; Touch: 13
CMD: 25; FFCMD: 24; FFTAC: 12

EFFECTS: - 1/60 Spell, 1/50 Boots
   GEAR: - Greatsword, Potion, Boots, Cloak, Shirt, Amulet, Belt, Backpack, belt pouch, dagger, sling, component’s pouch, spellbook (-0 ACP, Light Load)

   USES: - ??/?? blessings, 1/?? fervor, ??/?? shirt, ??/??, elemental assault, ??/?? rage

Spells: 0 Level 0/5, 1st Level 0/5, 2nd Level 1/4



DICE ROLLS: -
   SUMMARY: - Bruhli casts a spell, flies, and pulls out sword. Speaks a few words too.


OOC: I’m a little worried too. I wasn’t expecting you to bring along a friend. If it helps, I’ve never played a Warpriest before so this is going to be new for me. One question, I am a little confused about Kosh’s movements. Did he start in I18:J19? Also, it appears Kosh moved right and then left? Also, is Kosh a biped, quadraped, or something else? Does Kosh have wings? I think I can get those without making the check :P

I originally had Kosh moved further forward but with the comand I gave him (Defend) the position he is in seemed a better fit, I don't know why I didn't see how messed up I have his movements, due to size he started R18:S19 and moved to I18:J19.  If you like he does have enough movement speed to end in G18:H19 which is where his action line says he moves to I can put him there?

Without giving to much info he is a quadraped no wings. 

Awesome, if he has the movement speed then definitely put him there.

OK will be later before I get a post up, treating the wife today.

Boadicea after being silent for the first round yells out to Bruhli "Good to have you join me flying is not my forte, how about you come down here and fight me. " She drops the potion in hand and activates her cloak again then moves closer to Kosh drawing a pill.  Kosh moves between Bruhli and Boadicea wishing for someone to pound on.


B = Bruhli
O = Boadicea
K = Kosh
P = potion

ROUND: Round 1 (22)
POSITION: I19:J20
 ACTIONS: Yell (free), Activate/Use Cloak casting spell (Standard), move to I19:J20 and draw pill (move)

 HP: 124/124 (0 nonlethal)
 AC: 11; FFAC:  9; Touch: 11
CMD: 29; FFCMD: 26; FFTAC: 9

EFFECTS: - Feats , spells 9/10, 10/10
   GEAR: - Amulet , Belt , Cloak , Pill , Shirt , Potions , belt pouch, dagger, sling (ACP - 0, Load - Light)
   USES: -  Cloak: -/-, 0/1, 0/1; Potions 1/2 ; Pill 1/1 ; Rage ?/?

Kosh: Position: I17:J18, HP 81/81, [AC 28, FFAC 26, TAC 10, CMD 25, FFCMD 23, FFTAC 10, Fort +7, Refl +8, Will + 3]
 Actions: move to I17:J18 (move), Hold action (Standard)
 Effects: - Feats

DICE ROLLS:

   SUMMARY: - Boadicea activates cloak casting spell on herself moves closer to Kosh while drawing pill, Kosh moves so he is in a defensive position.


OOC: I forgot fluff last time :(

Just thought about this: would you like perception rolls? Neither one of us are hiding so even though really do not have line of sight on each other with the penalty for talking I know my modifier would be in the negatives so pretty much auto success for you.

In reply to Boadicea (msg # 31):

Will post soon

Bruhli folded his arms across his chest. "PERHAPS IF YOU WERE TO UNBURDEN YOURSELF OF YOUR WEAKNESS YOU'D BE LIGHT ENOUGH TO FLY?"

He then watched Boadicea and Kosh huddle together. “PATHETIC!! MUST COWARDS ALWAYS BAND TOGETHER? SCAVENGING FOR STRENGTH AND COURAGE!!?”

Bruhli would like nothing more than to charge Boadicea. But such actions got Bruhli in trouble before. No he would be cautious before he destroyed his foe. The mountain and Boadicea’s new range could counteract his flight. So he flew around it. Eager for the second he could engage Boadicea is glorious combat!

If Boadicea watches Bruhli carefully, he’ll see that the barbarian adopts some sort of fighting stance.



B = Bruhli
O = Boadicea
K = Kosh
P = potion


   ROUND: Round #1 (10)
POSITION: I1+5 to C9+6
 ACTIONS: Cast spell (Standard Action, Move via flight (Move), Employee Style (Swift) .

 HP: 126/126 (0 nonlethal)
 AC: 13; FFAC: 12; Touch: 13
CMD: 25; FFCMD: 24; FFTAC: 12

EFFECTS: - 2/60 Spell 1, 2/50 Boots, 1/10 Spell 2, Style
   GEAR: - Greatsword, Potion, Boots, Cloak, Shirt, Amulet, Belt, Backpack, belt pouch, dagger, sling, component’s pouch, spellbook (-0 ACP, Light Load)

   USES: - 0/?? blessings, 1/?? fervor, ??/?? shirt, ??/??, elemental assault, ??/?? rage

Spells: 0 Level 0/5, 1st Level 1/5, 2nd Level 1/4



DICE ROLLS: -
   SUMMARY: - Mocks and activates spell and style. Move.


OOC: The fluff is where it’s at Boadicea! Haha, with my talking and casting, there’s no way you don’t know where I am.

Sorry for taking so long took a while to track down the post to reference.  Bruhli do you have a fly speed of 100+ as your whole movement is considered an ascent if I am reading the fly rules correctly as well in the Latro vs panian vs Brakt vs Ario FFA it looks to be ruled as such I believe ( link to a message in this game )

Boadicea is correct about flight speed issues, and you will need to adjust, Bruhli.

[joke]Also I did not know that Paizo had developed an employee fighting style. Does it give bonuses to strikes?. [/joke]

OOC: My flight movement was to move up 5ft and then across horizontally. The whole movement would not count as ascent and thus require double movement. I did this exact same thing in my training match with Xin and with Arkrim as the GM. In that match I could move vertically and horizontally without having to make any check or requiring double movement. If you look at Arkrim's post, you will see there is a difference between 45 degree movement and just moving horizontally and vertically to get to a destination.

link to a message in this game


Ah yes, the infamous "employee fighting style." It involves a lot of "nerd rage."

Sorry Bruhli, your citation is from a training match where it looks like Arkrim was flying a bit rules-light (see what I did there?) to keep from over-rules-lawyering in favor of the monster he was running, while Boadicea's citation is from a match where Arkrim was adjudicating.

Unless something not brought up previously (and fairly explicit) is cited to make me reconsider, my ruling for this match is: if you travel up during your movement it is an ascent and your speed is halved.

If its not super important that you are in +6 just drop to +5 and your move is good, just my two pence

In reply to Ario (msg # 37):


This is a direct quote:

quote:

In either case, because this IS a training match you can just asked to be excused from that rule. I feel like I'm rulelawyering here more than teaching so just let me know if you want to skip this bit before continuing.

Arkrim went above and beyond in teaching us about the rules and making sure we knew what they were. As it relates to being "rules light," I agree with you that it was a rules light match, but it wasn't rules light in the way you are thinking. It was rules light in the fact that he would tell us about the rules and how they work, but we could decide if we wanted them to apply or not. Here, Akrim distinguished being just moving horizontally and vertically, and moving 45 degrees. In other words, here are the rules about flying...

Bruhli looking at your linked text Arkrim does say your movement was half speed but does not count as such for no need for fly check, please feel free to point out what I missed.

quote:

OOC: Before we continue, I want to address something about flying. You keep saying MORE than half, but you only moved 5 spaces (25 ft.). A fly spell/potion gives you a 60ft. fly speed. That means you have to move through 6 spaces to constitute that. Moving upwards COST double movement but it doesn't GRANT movement on the field. There's a difference here. To fly half your base speed you actually need to move 6 spaces with your flying movement.

In reply to Boadicea (msg # 40):

OOC: I can certainly clarify. Because I was moving upward (through smoke), that cost double movement. The smoke constituted difficult terrain and that's why the upward movement through the smoke cost double.

The issue was that even if difficult terrain reduces your speed, you still have to move greater than your base fly speed to avoid having to make the check. For example, let's say you have a fly speed was 60ft. Because of difficult terrain, you can only move 30ft. In this situation, I was thinking that my speed is now 30ft because of the difficult terrain, so I only have to move greater than 15ft to avoid the check. But Akrim stated that it's moving greater than half of your base fly speed (60ft) not your effective fly speed (30ft). I thought I only had to move greater than my effective speed but Akrim said I had to move greater than half of my base fly speed (60ft) not my effective fly speed (30ft because of difficult terrain). So in other words, only moving 25ft in that match didn't cut it.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:40, Sat 14 May 2016.

If it was just the difficult terrain that was halving your speed then why would he use upward movement as the example which according to you had a much smaller role than the terrain?  Did you read over the link I had in previous post latro was nice and even drew a map to clarify movement.

Because I fell out of the sky. He wasn't using it as an example. I fell out of the sky and then flew upward (vertically) through the smoke. That's what provoked the comment.
This message was last updated by the player at 05:29, Sun 15 May 2016.

Bruhli, here are your options:

1) (And this one only if Boadicea permits you to make your fly checks even though your turn ended without them aa he called you on fly problems) Your flight straight up costs 10' of movement (including the cost to get into the higher square) and a dc 20 fly check, then turning to fly level will cost 5' of movement (not including the cost to get into your next square).  Failing either of those checks will cause you to fall in I1 as your first movement and take falling damage.  Then you could use your remaining 45' of flying movement to get where you want from I1+6.''

2) Ascend as normal giving up your standard to get to your current location with your 30' fly speed.

3) Use your standard to cast a spell and ascend as normal stopping short of where you did because of your 30' fly speed.

4) Call for a vote in the OOC and abide by the consequences.  (As a warning on this, I would not expect a request for "I can fly vertically and then turn more than 45 degress without needing a skill check or movement penalty" to get far in the ooc because it directly conflicts with the fly skill.)

Interesting, I’m still not entirely convinced that I wrong. Really, I floated up 5 ft and then I moved horizontally. There was no 45 degree movement. If you can quote me something besides that one match with Latro that says horizontal and vertical movement costs double, then I’ll choose option 2 where I just give up my standard to end up where I am. The below points are simply to show why the match with Latro is not enough.

First, the match I am quoting from is more recent than the match you are quoting from.

Second, the match I am quoting from is much more on point. First, it involves the exact same type of movement. In that match, I was using horizontal and vertical movement. In your match, Latro was also using diagonal movement. The match I am quoting from is much more on point because it involves the same type of movement.

Third, others have recognized a difference between horizontal/veritcal movement and diagonal (45 degree) movement.

quote:

The only possible routes you could take were 45 degree turns to go around the smoke (fly check), flying straight up through the smoke (AoO)

There is a difference between the two types of movement.

Bruhli, due to your lack of reporting any turns in your move or position line your flight path is assumed to be the most direct route which is a striaght line ascending at less than 45° so no need for a fly check but beings +6 is higher than +5 I due believe that is an ascent and per the Fly spell (I assume you are under) 

quote:

It can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and its maneuverability is good.

.  On a side note if Ario allows you to change your motion that would involve a fly check I would like to invoke the Forgetting to roll autofail. Move to a legal position and Lets move on PLEASE

quote:

Flying & Movement
You must declare your flying movement at the start of your round and make a fly check with it (hover, move<half speed, and so forth).

Forgetting to Roll: If a character forgets to roll an ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check when they are supposed to, then the attacker/defender may choose to "call them out" and have the roll autofail. If it is not an opposed check, they can ask a GM to intervene. Everything must be listed clearly and in chronological order. The GM will rule in favor of whoever is MORE organized in the case of an argument over "vagueness" or intention. Note, posting the newest map in chronological order makes you "more" organized only if it is accurate.

Boadicea:

OOC:

Bruhli, due to your lack of reporting any turns in your move or position line your flight path is assumed to be the most direct route

I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure this isn't written anywhere.

In looking at other matches, people don't have to specify their exact movement path unless questioned about it. As such, I didn't have to specify mine until someone questions it. I don't have to report my exact movement unless called to do so by the ref, GM, or other player.

This is what I propose. As I stated, I moved up 5 ft (vertically) and then moved horizontally. For purpose of this proposition, I will agree with you and Ario that vertical movement takes double movement. So moving up would cost 10 ft. Boadicea, when you were a ref, you allowed everything up until the point of the error. What is the error in this case? In this case (if you and Ario are right that moving vertically costs double movement), the error was that I took 5ft of extra movement. So I would be stopped just before I took that extra 5ft which would put me in C8+6. In other words, I would move until my movement ran out. After that, I would continue with the rest of my turn. Because the rest of my turn isn't affected by where I am, it would still be the same.

I would like to move on to. Truthfully, out of all the things we could argue about, this seems to be exceedingly minor. The difference between my being right and your being right is whether I end up in C9+6 or C8+6. I mean 8 days? Really?




This message was last edited by the player at 01:51, Thu 19 May 2016.

Bruhli, the actual issue seems to be a lack of understanding of the flying rules on your part.  You are correct that path does not need to be stated unless asked for, but Boadicea is correct that (without his permission to make rolls late) your changed path would result in you casting your spell and falling in I1 due to automatically failed rolls (explained in one of my previous posts).  Even if he did let you roll the checks (which he appears not to be) you would be falling short 10', not 5' (explained in the same previous post).

He is allowing you to make a legal move that does not require you to make fly checks in place of the move action you botched, which is the point at which the error was made, as you requested.  This is much kinder than just requiring that you fall in I1, and I would suggest you take it.

In response to your complaint about time: you have 48 hours from this post to make a post correcting your movement, or make Boadicea an offer he accepts instead, as agreement between players trumps pretty much everything.  If any offers you make are not accepted and you have not posted a corrected action, you will default to your stated path and fall in I1 taking damage due to the failed fly check.

You are correct Bruhli 8 days is a bit much, but 6 days ago and again 2 days ago Ario made the call and ask for you to adjust location.  I am good with you making your move/moves to where ever you can as long as its legal and requires no check, Ario put a couple good choice in his post two days ago and as I pointed out before if +6 isn't super important just go to +5 and you can even move one more square closer.

OOC: You are right that two days ago Ario did provide options. And go back to my post, I already choose option 2 but just wanted someone to quote me a rule I can rely on. That's I'm waiting for or was waiting for.


Now that I have a 48 hour deadline to comply, I'll go back to my original choice of option 2 where I give up my standard to end up where I am.

ok, will have post up in a bit

"Cowards we are not Bruhli" Boadicea yells to Bruhli while moving towards him.  She pauses combining the pill in her hand and the potion she just drew creating a small cloud of smoke.  "I think I may join you after all" she states as she flys up and socks Bruhli in the jaw. "Let us start the show, try not to die to fast"



B = Bruhli
O = Boadicea
K = Kosh
P = potion

ROUND: Round 1 (22)
POSITION: C11+6:D12+5
 ACTIONS: Draw potion while moving to C17:D18 (via G19:H20 and E17:F18)(Move), (wait for Kosh to finish his 1st move action) Drop pill in potion bottle centered at D17:E18(Standard), Handle Kosh (Attack)(free), activate shirt (swift), fly to C11+6:D12+5 (less than 45° ascent no check needed)(move), punch Bruhli (Unarmed strike)(Hero point)

 HP: 124/124 (0 nonlethal)
 AC: 11; FFAC:  9; Touch: 11
CMD: 29; FFCMD: 26; FFTAC: 9

EFFECTS: - Feats , Class Feature , spells 8/10, 9/10, 50/50
   GEAR: - Amulet , Belt , Cloak , Pill , Shirt , Potions , belt pouch, dagger, sling (ACP - 0, Load - Light)
   USES: -  Cloak: -/-, 0/1, 0/1; Potions 0/2 ; Pill 0/1 ; Shirt 0/1; Rage ?/?

Kosh: Position: I17:J18, HP 81/81, [AC 28, FFAC 26, TAC 10, CMD 25, FFCMD 23, FFTAC 10, Fort +7, Refl +8, Will + 3]
 Actions: - 1st move action move to E17:F18 (move), 2nd move action to C13:D14 (via c17:D18)(move)
 Effects: - Feats , spell 50/50

DICE ROLLS: Boadicea rolled 25 using 3d6+9 with rolls of 6,4,6.  Damage to Bruhli, amulet, unarmed strike.
Boadicea rolled 28 using 1d20+18 with rolls of 10.  Unarmed strike Bruhli, amulet, unarmed strike.

   SUMMARY: - Boadicea moves toward Bruhli while drawing a potion and awaits Kosh to join her then drops the pill into the potion creating a small cloud that quickly dissipates.  Bodicea then takes flight and punches Bruhli for 25 damage.  Kosh pads slowly towards Bruhli.


OOC: Sorry so long intended to have this up last night

In reply to Boadicea (msg # 52):

Boadicea, you don't get your attack. Using the shirt immediately ends your turn.


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-.../shirt-quick-runners

Good catch however, that was added in the errata just released.  I did not get the memo until GM posted link (after my turn was posted).  I ask Ario for a call on that beings the change happened after our match began.  However all my moves are legal so worst case is I lose an action on my next turn for using a Hero Point out of turn.

OOC: The errata was released before you took your turn. When you found out about it is irrelevant.

Also, you can't use the act out of turn hero point usage. We said that wasn't allowed as an extra.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:43, Sat 21 May 2016.

Now comes the splitting of Hair did I really interrupt your turn beings you had yet to post/act, our extra is "No interrupting other player's turns with hero points" not no act out of turn.  Had you not continued to argue and listened to Ario my turn would have been well before errata came out.  So as this is an arena match should not rules, item, and everything else be locked in when the match starts?  Just a funny image as Boadicea is about to act arena official jumps out of the stands runs over and hands her a new shirt ordering her to hand over the one she is wearing. LOL

The below quote is from the Arena Competition Rules Thread.

quote:

Act out of Turn: You sacrifice a standard, move or swift action from your NEXT turn to take it immediately, interrupting another character's turn. Initiative does not change.

The below is a quote from you.

quote:

However all my moves are legal so worst case is I lose an action on my next turn for using a Hero Point out of turn.

Looking at both these quotes, it's clear what your intent was. You practically tracked the language from the "Act out of Turn" hero point usage.

quote:

"No interrupting other player's turns with hero points."

Once again, look at the Rules quote. It's clear what we intended to prohibit.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:31, Sat 21 May 2016.

We can argue all day long but it only matters what Ario's call is and I will wait for that.

Guess need him to answer:

1) Does errata effect already in progress match?

If yes then:

  A) Am I interrupting your turn?

quote:

Once again, look at the Rules quote. It's clear what we intended to prohibit.

Aw the ever present RAW versus the Intended meaning of the Rule, what I wanted to stop and I'm sure was your intention as well to stop all the retcons from I hit you with super duper Hammer of death killing you, you use hero point to activate anti super duper hammer shield right before I hit you. Leaving me with a move action into a position I only would be in because I could kill you now I'm stuck in a bad spot with just a standard action.

holding post while I re-write.  Thought boa's last post was bruhli.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:06, Sat 21 May 2016.

For 1) Frankly, I didn't want to rule on the Ultimate Equipment errata.  It's extremely game-changing to have an update like that mid-match, and more especially to have it come into effect in response to someone's turn being taken.  As you've both asked for me to rule I suggest a 50/50 chance of it going either way.  That is, one of you roll a die: evens errata goes into effect at the start of the match, odds it does not do anything for this game.  If you both refuse that I will make a specific ruling without the die roller's assistance.

For 2) As your extras line prohibited interruption but not acting out of turn, and as I cannot attempt to rule on RAI, but RAW, Boadicea's action would be legal as it did not interrupt Bruhli's actions.

That is fine with me Bruhli guess balls in your court you have a shirt in your inventory as well I assume the same brand how do you want to use yours?  If you want dice roll go ahead just please put in reason which is < 50/ >50.(I know you would anyway but just figured I'd say anyhow)
This message was last edited by the player at 22:09, Sat 21 May 2016.

Here comes Ario with his rules jiu jitsu to bail Boadicea out. LOL. JK. Or am I?


For 2) Okay as to the second point first because it's easier, once Boadicea ends his turn. My turn begins, whether I've taken a standard or a move action. It's still my turn. If he takes an action DURING my turn, he has interrupted my turn. I am quoting from Boadicea here

Boadicea:

quote:

using a Hero Point out of turn.

If Boadicea isn't using a hero point during his turn, then he is using a hero point during my turn. No rules jiu jitsu here.



For 1) As to the first point, the release came out before Boadicea took his turn. In other words, Boadicea had every opportunity to use the shirt correctly. Rules become effective when they are released unless they state otherwise.

Additionally, rules about how feats and equipment work have been created mid-match all the time here (i.e. there is an issue not addressed by RAW). If a GM rules that a feat/piece of equipment works this way or that way, from that point on, the players must abide by that ruling in that match. I don't see why this should be any different. (i.e. the player thought a piece of equipment worked one way. RAW supports the person's interpretation. And then because of a mid-match GM ruling it changes.)
This message was last edited by the player at 22:42, Sun 22 May 2016.

Bruhli, so far this game I've intervened 1) when you tried to post a partial (and illegal) sheet,  and 2) when you took an illegal turn and Boadicea called you on it.

I intervened now because you've both asked for it, and gave you my ruling on point two in good faith so it would not come as a shock when 1 is resolved, and so you could come to an agreement on it between you on how you want your match to proceed.

A quick PSA from the rules thread: "Arguing with a Referee or GM is an automatic foul."  I'm going to pass on that this once, because this is the first time the arena has had a problem with it, it seems.  If you think I am being partial, or am wrong, call me on it and go for an ooc vote and abide by the consequences.  If not: stop with the arguing and accept my ruling.  To make it easier: there are 11 initiative ticks that Boadicea could activate his hero point, and there is no rule that compresses time to binary alternating turns in the arena.  In fact, if you note your own post, you declare your initiative for each turn.  There is time between turns in Pathfinder.  Your extra says nothing about acting out of turn, only specifically interrupting.  If you want different rules in future games, request them then.

Side note: I believe this is the first time Paizo has changed RAW on anyone mid-match, regardless of whether there have been misunderstandings of RAW that were ruled on mid-match.

tl,dr: In the next 48 hours: 1) Make the roll for which way things will run for this game (this match ignores errata that comes out during it, or all errata takes effect before Boadicea's most recent turn), 2) make a proposal you think Boadicea will agree with, 3) cite a match where paizo errata came out mid-match and a GM made a ruling to set precedent on it or 4) call an ooc vote if you think that my call is completely, 100% wrong, per the rules thread.  Choose to continue to argue instead and I will give you the foul you've asked for and we can simplify the issue by moving on to your fly check in response to receiving damage.

I've spent a ton of hours reading and researching things for this match, and we haven't even finished the second round.  I will continue with due diligence and give you guys as balanced a match as I can manage, but do not argue with me once I've made a call that has been asked for.

In reply to Ario (msg # 63):

First, are you talking about the bailout thing? Or when I said you were using jiu jitsu? You are aware that only applied to the hero point interruption ruling, right? If not, I'll make it clear right here. It doesn't apply to the rest of the match. I agree, you did help me out in the beginning. About the flying movement, let's not go over that again.

Second, I'll agree with you that I was arguing with you if you can find two or more posts from me in response to you about the new errata. If you can only find one post in response to you, that's not arguing, that's just presenting my side of the story which hadn't really been heard.

Looking at most of the past challenges in the Challenge thread, most of us have "no interrupting another player's turn with a hero point." I'll have to remember this isn't specific enough.

I'll look for a match where there was a mid-match ruling. Actually, if you are ruling that "no interrupting another player's turn with hero points" =/= No act out of turn hero points, then there's no point in my looking for mid-match ruling.

I'll get my post up tomorrow. On phone
This message was last edited by the player at 00:20, Wed 25 May 2016.

B = Bruhli
O = Boadicea
K = Kosh
P = potion


   ROUND: Round #2 (10)
POSITION: C9+6 to O4
 ACTIONS: Fall (Free), Stand up (Move Action), Move (to G4) (Standard Action), Activate Shirt (Swift), Fly to R4+2 (less than 45° ascent no check needed(Move Action).

 HP: 97/101 (0 nonlethal)
 AC: 13; FFAC: 12; Touch: 13
CMD: 25; FFCMD: 24; FFTAC: 12

EFFECTS: - 3/60 Spell 1, 3/50 Boots, Style
   GEAR: - Greatsword, Potion, Boots, Cloak, Shirt, Amulet, Belt, Backpack, belt pouch, dagger, sling, component’s pouch, spellbook (-0 ACP, Light Load)

   USES: - 0/?? blessings, 1/?? fervor, ??/?? shirt, ??/??, elemental assault, ??/?? rage

Spells: 0 Level 0/5, 1st Level 0/5, 2nd Level 1/4



DICE ROLLS: - 22:07, Today: Bruhli rolled 21 using 1d20+13 with rolls of 8.  DC27 fly check v. damage.
-  22:09, Today: Bruhli rolled 24 using 1d20+6 with rolls of 18.  Acrobatics to reduce damage.
-  22:11, Today: Bruhli rolled 4 using 2d6 with rolls of 3,1.  Falling damage.
-
   SUMMARY: - Falls, stands up, and moves.

OOC:

Position line should read:

POSITION: C9+6 to R4+2

Bruhli are you not at half speed because of ascent?  So you gonna roll on how shirt is played or going with pre errata?

Whoops, you're right.  I should be at M4+2. Or I can be in G4+0 because I failed to make the fly check and that's where I would have fallen. You can choose.

I argued that the new rules should apply. I stick by that, even if it only applies to me.




B = Bruhli
O = Boadicea
K = Kosh
P = potion

POSITION: M4+2

so then you have no issue with me taking a standard action on my turn?  Also you need to subtract unarmed strike's damage unles you have DR 21 (if so OMG :) ).
This message was last edited by the player at 03:26, Sat 28 May 2016.

Gonna preface this with I really dislike flying, Wanna make sure I get this right, I know flying simple but so easy to mess up.

Example:  I fly forward 10 feet turn 45° fly for 10 feet turn 45° fly for another 10 feet

So I net a 90° turn just pushed out across a hand full of squares, beings each turn is 45° there should be no check right or because I net 90° do I need a check?

Hm. Under the undemocratic Arena there'd be a bp charge for rules questions.  That said, I'm not the GM, and it doesn't bug me.  So, unless you guys want to add a rule that you can't ask questions of the ref before attempting actions, I'm up for answering them.  If you do decide to add that rule, Bruhli still gets a rules question before acting during this match.

In answer to the actual question: taking 2 turns of 45 degrees or greater, and separated by at least a 10' move, will avoid the fly check, but each turn costs 5' of movement.  It's a trade-off of maneuverability and speed for not needing to roll a skill check.

In reply to Boadicea (msg # 69):

Lol, I did take the unarmed strike damage off. The problem is that I took it off my total hp as well. Here is the corrected.

97/126.

Yeah, I'd rather the new rules related to the errata apply to you to and you not get your standard because of the hero point usage.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:31, Sun 29 May 2016.

"Now who is the coward, knock you down and you run away" Boadicea roars as she takes flight with Kosh following close behind.  He being unsure of his flying skill he pauses after ascending and decides to take a shorter route but still close enough that he may if given the oportunity  to strike he may. "Run away now COWARD" growls Boadicea a little spent from her heroic actions to catch and strike Bruhli before he ran.



B = Bruhli
O = Boadicea
K = Kosh
P = potion

ROUND: Round 1 (22)
POSITION: N1:O2
 ACTIONS:Fly around and land at N1:O2 (Via C7+4:D8+4, I1+3:J2+3)(all a descent at double speed per spell), Standard lost due to hero point usage last round

 HP: 124/124 (0 nonlethal)
 AC: 11; FFAC:  9; Touch: 11
CMD: 29; FFCMD: 26; FFTAC: 9

EFFECTS: - Feats , Class Feature , spells 7/10, 8/10, 49/50
   GEAR: - Amulet , Belt , Cloak , Pill , Shirt , Potions , belt pouch, dagger, sling (ACP - 0, Load - Light)
   USES: -  Cloak: -/-, 0/1, 0/1; Potions 0/2 ; Pill 0/1 ; Shirt 0/1; Rage ?/?

Kosh: Position: K4:L5, HP 81/81, [AC 28, FFAC 26, TAC 10, CMD 25, FFCMD 23, FFTAC 10, Fort +7, Refl +8, Will + 3]
 Actions: - 1st move action Fly to C7+4:D8+4 (ascent 1/2 less than 45°) (move), 2nd move action Fly to K4:L5(descent turning at F4+3:G5+3)(move)
 Effects: - Feats , spell 49/50

DICE ROLLS:



   SUMMARY: - Boadicea and Kosh fly toward thier opponent both landing within striking distance.


OOC: Dice gods must aggree we go by post errata, Boadicea rolled 93 using 1d100 with rolls of 93.  Pre errata < 50 > post errata.  We disagree on this that is why I asked you to roll beings that is the answer our ref gave but instead of argue I just went ahead and rolled came out your way.  Still think it bologna (not that you knew the change was coming or did you :)) that you are "rewarded" for wasting a week arguing.

Hearing the word 'coward' applied to him infuriated the Legendary Suli Barbarian. He tried to fight in a different way - to be cautious and not run headlong into danger. But seeing that mocking look on Boadicea's face was enough for the true barbarian to come out.

He raged.

"YOU WILL BEG FOR MERCY BEFORE THE END!!!!"

But the divine was not with him. His series of attacks left much to be desired.




B = Bruhli
O = Boadicea
K = Kosh
P = potion


   ROUND: Round #3 (10)
POSITION: M4+2 to TBD (Dependent on PM)
 ACTIONS: AOO (Free), Rage (Free), Activate Spell via Fervor (Swift), Full Attack (Full round action), Five foot shift to TBD (free)  .

 HP: 115/144 (0 nonlethal)
 AC: 13; FFAC: 12; Touch: 13 ( -6 AC)
CMD: 25; FFCMD: 24; FFTAC: 12 ( -6 AC)

EFFECTS: - 4/60 Spell 1, 4/50 Boots, Style, 1/10 Spell 2
   GEAR: - Greatsword, Potion, Boots, Cloak, Shirt, Amulet, Belt, Backpack, belt pouch, dagger, sling, component’s pouch, spellbook (-0 ACP, Light Load)

   USES: - 0/?? blessings, 2/?? fervor, 1/?? shirt, ??/??, elemental assault, 1/?? rage

Spells: 0 Level 0/5, 1st Level 1/5, 2nd Level 1/4



DICE ROLLS: -
- 12:44, Today: Bruhli rolled 13 using 1d20+12 with rolls of 1.  AOO, unarmed strike, power attack v. Boadicea.
-  13:15, Today: Bruhli rolled 30,17,21,14 using d20+13,d20+13,d20+8,d20+13 with rolls of 17,4,13,1.  Power attack all, unarmed strike, WF class feature, FOB v. Boadicea.
- 13:19, Today: Bruhli rolled 24,22,23 using d6+18,d6+18,d6+18 with rolls of 6,4,5.  Unarmed strike 1,2,3 damage v. Boadicea.
- 13:23, Today: Bruhli rolled 32 using 1d20+13 with rolls of 19.  Fly check.
   SUMMARY: - Boadicea takes 69 bludgeoning dmg.


OOC: When you moved out of L2+2 or L2+3 (not sure exact path), you provoked an AOO. It missed so I guess it doesn’t matter. I now think the diceroller favors you. After all, I roll 5 attacks and somehow get two 1s?
Also, don’t take your turn just yet. I have a question for Ario.


PM

you have reach? Like you said AoO missed but my position would be whatever the hypotenuse would be something like +2/+1

His AOO was legitimate from the abilities he has active: he was threatening 10'.

Cool, glad it missed :)

Question:

PM party - no combat posts until this is resolved.

In reply to Ario (msg # 79):

PM
This message was last edited by the player at 16:17, Tue 31 May 2016.

Partially resolved: 1) Bruhli did not have reach, 2) Ario should not do math in the early morning.  Other parts still seeking resolution.

PM

We're all set except this:

The damages were rolled with too high of a bonus.  They should have been 1d6+16.  Boadicea may choose to subtract 2 from each damage or have them re-rolled.

Just subtract the 2 is fine with me, to which square do you move to Bruhli to strike me

Sounds good to me. I'll be in N3+1. Phone

Ok, my turn now?

In reply to Boadicea (msg # 86):

Yep, you're up. If you want, you can always skip your turn :P

"Glad to see you man up and fight me!" Boadicea happily states as she starts to rage.  Boadicea grows claws and her mouth elongates allowing her to bite, "join me Kosh" she commands while her body transforms.  Kosh as well grows a set of claws and his jaw enlarges allowing him to bite.  Boadicea waits for her ally to move into position behind Bruhli and takes her claw and rips it into him.  Kosh excited to finally be able to reach his foe pummels and rips into the Barbarian possibly killing him.


B = Bruhli
O = Boadicea
K = Kosh
P = potion

ROUND: Round 2 (22)
POSITION: N1:O2
 ACTIONS:Martial flexability (move), Rage (free), Handle Kosh (Flank)(Free), (wait for Kosh to 5' step), Claw Bruhli (Standard),  (free)

 HP: 82/142 (0 nonlethal)
 AC: 12(10); FFAC:  9; Touch: 11
CMD: 29; FFCMD: 26; FFTAC: 9

EFFECTS: - Feats, Rage, Rage Powers , Class Feature , spells 6/10, 7/10, 48/50
   GEAR: - Amulet , Belt , Cloak , Pill , Shirt , Potions , belt pouch, dagger, sling (ACP - 0, Load - Light)
   USES: -  Cloak: -/-, 0/1, 0/1; Potions 0/2 ; Pill 0/1 ; Shirt 0/1; Rage ?-3/?

Kosh: Position: L4:M5, HP 99/99, [AC 29(27), FFAC 27, TAC 10, CMD 25, FFCMD 23, FFTAC 10, Fort +9, Refl +8, Will + 3]
 Actions: - 5' step (Free), Full attack Bruhli (full round),  (free)
 Effects: - Feats, Amulet, Rage Powers, Rage , spell 48/50

DICE ROLLS: Boadicea rolled 21 using 5d6+11 with rolls of 2,2,2,2,2.  Kosh Tail damage to Bruhli (size, PS, PA, Bane) DC 23 fort or be stunned 1 round.
Boadicea rolled 31 using 4d6+13 with rolls of 4,6,2,6.  Kosh Bite damage to Bruhli (size, PS, PA, Bane).
Boadicea rolled 40 using 1d8+3d6+13+1d8+13 with rolls of 1,5,1,5,2.  Kosh Claw 2 (confirmed threat) damage to Bruhli (size, PS, PA, Bane).
Boadicea rolled 26 using 1d8+3d6+13 with rolls of 4,2,4,3.  Kosh caw 1 damage to Bruhli (size, PS, PA, Bane).
Boadicea rolled 33 using 1d20+18 with rolls of 15.  Kosh Claw 2 confirm threat vs Bruhli AC 13 (size, Flank, PT, PA, bane).
Boadicea rolled 33,38,25,17 using 1d20+18,1d20+18,1d20+18,1d20+13 with rolls of 15,20,7,4.  Kosh claw1, claw 2, Bite, Tail attacks vs Bruhli AC 13 (size, Flank, PT, PA, bane).
Boadicea rolled 27 using 1d8+3d6+15 with rolls of 4,2,4,2.  Claw Damage to Bruhli (size, PS, PA, Bane).
Boadicea rolled 32 using 1d20+20 with rolls of 12.  Claw Bruhli vs AC 13, (size, Flank, PT, PA, bane).



   SUMMARY: - Boadicea uses martial flexibility, rages, and swings at Bruhli for 27 damage.  Kosh steps up and full attacks Bruhli for 118 damage (c1 26, c2 (crit) 40, b 31, t 21). (145 total damage) Tail require a DC 23 fort save or be stunned 1 round


OOC: both Kosh and Boadicea are at a -2 ac on your first attack to them