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00:53, 27th April 2024 (GMT+0)

OOC Discussion 8.

Posted by GM ArkrimFor group 0
Copper Karl
Magus 250, 1 post
Wyrwood Magus
Fri 29 Dec 2017
at 03:21
  • msg #131

Re: OOC Discussion 8

Yo someone should fight me!

But like not right now, cause I'm gonna be out of town until the new year.
Somatra
Slayer 494, 5 posts
Fetchling Slayer
Fri 29 Dec 2017
at 06:01
  • msg #132

Re: OOC Discussion 8

In reply to Copper Karl (msg # 131):

I'm up for it after the Monster Hunt.  Duel or just a Spar?
Lyn
Magus 1,141, 43 posts
Elf Magus
Fri 29 Dec 2017
at 12:28
  • msg #133

Re: OOC Discussion 8

So, after watching T-Rex Taff roam rampant in the Arena, I wasn't expecting a giant slime to come chasing me!

I mean... There's a chance it's chasing Maelstrom or Ankou, you know... The actually scary people?
Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1433 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Fri 29 Dec 2017
at 15:10
  • msg #134

Re: OOC Discussion 8

was about to make my initiative post in the championship match when i noticed i accidentally deleted all my combat stats for some reason.
:/
Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1435 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Fri 29 Dec 2017
at 21:53
  • msg #135

Re: OOC Discussion 8

Ok, after extreme amounts of carful consideration and planning, I'm finally ready to take that belt as my own.
All thats left is for Josep and Haran to make their initiative posts and we can go from there.
Maelstrom
Monk 1,356, 382 posts
Human Monk
SotVD
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 13:34
  • msg #136

Re: OOC Discussion 8

Just a question - would it be possible to have a Rules Discussion thread? Instead of having the back in forth in the actual match itself, clogging up the match, it can be in a different location. Not sure if we should have a Rules discussion thread for ALL matches or if each match should get its own thread.
Grunyar Fangblood
Summoner 2,455, 716 posts
Skinwalker Summoner
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 13:45
  • msg #137

Re: OOC Discussion 8

I agree that it clogs up the thread however as the rules state that is a way to win and is in itself a form of combat in the match.
Vry
Sorcerer 2,517, 367 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 14:05
  • msg #138

Re: OOC Discussion 8

True, it is a bit in the way... but it’s so important that it would probably be to confusing with two threads. Hard to tell what follows what, if the ref just commented on the last post or if the ref commented before that, etc. Comments on rules made under the summary, commented upon in another thread...
Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1445 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 19:48
  • msg #139

Re: OOC Discussion 8

So i'm just going to fess up on what's happening in the championship thread for all those involved and those curious:

I tried to be a lich. There was nothing in the rules that said i couldn't and the rules even say that templates dont change starting weight and height for the base race and i figured it was a fair cost to pay both the BP for the phylactery as well as the extra BP to play a character who was, by a 2 CR increase, two levels stronger than the actual levels he was.

Apparently this flawless line of logic is not applicable however and that's the current situation i find myself in.

so, learn from papa Latro's mistakes: Don't assume you can do something even though the rules don't say you can't. Arkrim will slap you for making assumptions.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:50, Sat 30 Dec 2017.
GM Arkrim
GM, 6369 posts
Game Master
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 20:00
  • msg #140

Re: OOC Discussion 8

Maelstrom:
Just a question - would it be possible to have a Rules Discussion thread? Instead of having the back in forth in the actual match itself, clogging up the match, it can be in a different location. Not sure if we should have a Rules discussion thread for ALL matches or if each match should get its own thread.

Actually, I think that's a good idea, just not for rulings in ongoing matches.

We should have a general ongoing discussion thread specifically for what rules we hold here in the arena.

I'll put that up.
GM Arkrim
GM, 6370 posts
Game Master
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 20:01
  • msg #141

Re: OOC Discussion 8

Latro Dectus:
So i'm just going to fess up on what's happening in the championship thread for all those involved and those curious:

I tried to be a lich. There was nothing in the rules that said i couldn't and the rules even say that templates dont change starting weight and height for the base race and i figured it was a fair cost to pay both the BP for the phylactery as well as the extra BP to play a character who was, by a 2 CR increase, two levels stronger than the actual levels he was.

Apparently this flawless line of logic is not applicable however and that's the current situation i find myself in.

so, learn from papa Latro's mistakes: Don't assume you can do something even though the rules don't say you can't. Arkrim will slap you for making assumptions.

If the rules don't specifically say you can: then you can't...unless the referee or GM specifically makes an exception for you.

That's the #1 rule here in the arena.
Madam Opal
Witch 1,014, 603 posts
Ratfolk Witch
Shadow's Caress
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 22:24
  • msg #142

Re: OOC Discussion 8

Vry:
Proposal: Being able to set age category for the character.

I've... actually always been doing this. Opal has been Venerable this whole time and i've seen no objections. :P
Vry
Sorcerer 2,517, 370 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 22:32
  • msg #143

Re: OOC Discussion 8

In reply to Madam Opal (msg # 142):

Oh, alright! Cool then :)
Haran Madar
Sorcerer 1,121, 255 posts
Human Sorcerer
Sat 30 Dec 2017
at 23:26
  • msg #144

Re: OOC Discussion 8

Latro Dectus:
So i'm just going to fess up on what's happening in the championship thread for all those involved and those curious:

I tried to be a lich. There was nothing in the rules that said i couldn't and the rules even say that templates dont change starting weight and height for the base race and i figured it was a fair cost to pay both the BP for the phylactery as well as the extra BP to play a character who was, by a 2 CR increase, two levels stronger than the actual levels he was.

Apparently this flawless line of logic is not applicable however and that's the current situation i find myself in.

so, learn from papa Latro's mistakes: Don't assume you can do something even though the rules don't say you can't. Arkrim will slap you for making assumptions.



Did you actually spend 1200 BP on the phylactery? I thought it was going to be like 500 or something. I may reconsider my vote but would like input from Brakt and Josep. If you lose 1200 bp plus whatever you spent on being a lich, you'd pretty much be a straw man at that point (still more BP than me). But still, can we have an option C where he gets half of it back?
Somatra
Slayer 494, 6 posts
Fetchling Slayer
Sun 31 Dec 2017
at 03:18
  • msg #145

Re: OOC Discussion 8

Small BP question.

Obviously you can rework things on your character between matches (so long as race and class stays the same) and changing equipment doesn't require the whole sale price calculation.  But how are consumables handled?  Like, if Somatra uses a 500gp potion in a match is she just down the 5 BP with nothing to show for it on the character sheet, or does the still have the potion or some equivalent in her equipment afterwards?
Grunyar Fangblood
Summoner 2,455, 718 posts
Skinwalker Summoner
Sun 31 Dec 2017
at 03:24
  • msg #146

Re: OOC Discussion 8

In reply to Somatra (msg # 145):

With the exception of the things that state they require a BP sacrifice (I.E. ask GM question in pm) you keep all of your BP the arena "wizards" hand you a replacement consumable as you leave after they heal your wounds and remove any long term effects.
Somatra
Slayer 494, 7 posts
Fetchling Slayer
Sun 31 Dec 2017
at 03:37
  • msg #147

Re: OOC Discussion 8

In reply to Grunyar Fangblood (msg # 146):

Thanks.

Now everybody get ready for extravagant poison use:p
Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1446 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Sun 31 Dec 2017
at 15:29
  • msg #148

Re: OOC Discussion 8

Haran Madar:
Did you actually spend 1200 BP on the phylactery? I thought it was going to be like 500 or something. I may reconsider my vote but would like input from Brakt and Josep. If you lose 1200 bp plus whatever you spent on being a lich, you'd pretty much be a straw man at that point (still more BP than me). But still, can we have an option C where he gets half of it back?

Yes. I did. 1,200 bp for a phylactery and an extra 500 bp over that for an effective lvl 14 character (cause i'm level 12) meaning im short 1,700 bp for this match now.
Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1451 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 11:46
  • msg #149

Re: OOC Discussion 8

GM Arkrim:
Templates (as they are) simply can never be allowed in this arena.

However, there may be a way to use the race creation rules from the Advanced Race Guide to develop a more balanced and sensible way to incorporate templates into races. But again, the time to develop this would be extensive and I have no desire to do so.

It's a lot of work and no one has ever put forth the effort to undergo such a project.

If someone truly wanted templates in the arena, they'd take the time and effort to do that.


I'm going to start looking into this.
Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1452 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 13:35
  • msg #150

Re: OOC Discussion 8

So, after about an hour of work, this is what i've come up with as a base idea for a Lich template as a race. there are a few issues that i will note at the bottom but this is more of a working idea that anything.

the simplest way to figure the RP cost of a lich is to look at the cost of its Phylactery. which is 1,200 BP (120,000)
1,200 x 10 =12,000
the square root of 12,000 is 109.545 to the lich is roughly a 110 RP race. (110RP equates to 1,210 BP so we'll go with that)

However, i know arkrim is looking for more exact measures so we'll get as in depth as we possibly can.


Lich as a race, as determined by the Advanced Race Guide race building tools: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamema.../creating-new-races/

Abilities
Flexible (2 RP)
Modifiers: Members of this race gain a +2 bonus to any two ability scores.
+2 Int, +Wis
Advanced Charisma (4 RP)
Benefit: Members of this race receive a +2 racial bonus to Charisma.

Skills
Skill Bonus x12 (24 RP)
Perception +8, Stealth +8, Sense motive +8
Skill Training x5 (5 RP)
Climb, Disguise, Fly, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Stealth are treated as class skills

Race Elements
Undead - 16 RP
Natural Armor  - 2 RP
 - 1 Point of Natural Armor
Improved Natural Armor x4 - 4 RP
 - 4 Extra points of Natural armor
Channel Resistance x2 - 2 RP (using Illusion resistance as a base)
 - +4 to saving throws vs all Channel Energy effects
Skeletal Damage Reduction (2 RP)
- DR 5/bludgeoning.
Damage Reduction (4 RP)
DR 5/magic.
Elemental Immunity x2 (8 RP)
Electricity and Cold

Attacks
Natural attack (1 RP)
Touch




As it stands, the Lich, as a race costs 74 RP which, by itself, costs 547 BP to play.

The big issues i've run across are thus:
the Lich's rejuvenation ability, while effectively useless in the arena, as matches never last for 1d10 days, has no equivalent in the custom races list.
Granted, this is also an ability tied directly to the Lich's Phylactery. And perhaps it's utter uselessness in an arena setting garner it a net worth of a 0 RP value.

The other, more pressing, problems present themselves in the forms of the Lich's paralyzing touch ability and the Lich's fear aura ability.

The Fear aura ability, can be finagled by looking at the Frightful Gaze (6 RP) and Stench Aura (4 RP) ability.
Replace Paralysis with frightened or shaken dependent on a creatures HD in frightful gaze and you have a partially functioning Lich fear aura
Add in Stench Aura's "Creatures that succeed at the saving throw cannot be sickened by the same creature’s stench aura for 24 hours" and special text that says you can take the ability twice you double the range and increase the duration and its just about equal to a Lich's fear aura.
The one hang up is that the Lich;s fear aura causes a fear effect that last a number of rounds equal to a lich's HD so thats a problem
Call this roughly a 16 RP ability and we're sitting pretty. (8 RP for the base 30 feet fear aura fora  duration of half HD then and extra 8 RP to double the range and double the duration. )

The touch attack damage and the paralyzing touch are more difficult
for the touch attack damage, we're looking at Elemental Weapons (6 RP) and Slapping Tail (3 RP)
 Elemental Weapons gives us an Energy Based form of attack and slapping tail gives us a 1d8 form of damage.
The problem is Elemental weapons is limited to fire, cold, Electricity, and acid and slapping tail is limited to AoOs. more over, there's nothing that gives us a bonus to damage equal to 1 for every 2 HD the creature possesses. So let's just call this a 14 RP ability to tie in with the touch attack natural weapon to round it off at 15 RP total.

With paralyzing touch, we're back to Frightful Gaze for a base form of paralysis. The biggest problem here is that the lich's Paralyzing touch causes permanent Paralysis that can only be removed by remove curse or remove paralysis.
I'd personally say call this a 10 RP ability, because even though it only happens on a touch attack, it's still permanent paralysis. Even if arena immunities get out out of it 1 round later if you're above half health.

If we factor in these last, very experimental, very not exactly exact RP values for the abilities, we do come out with a RP cost of 114 which comes to a BP cost of 1299. only 99 BP above the cost of the Lich's phylactery.

alternatively, we just say the abilities i couldn't figure cost 36 BP over the 74 and call it a day

(note: i calculated and approximated the RP cost of the Lich's abilities before figuring the RP cost of the lich based on the price of it''s phylactery so the fact that i was able to come within 4 RP of the phylactery is actually pretty good on me if i do say so myself.)

That's what i've got for the Lich. If anyone wants to throw input my way, that'd be appreciated.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:18, Tue 02 Jan 2018.
Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1453 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 15:35
  • msg #151

Re: OOC Discussion 8

Side note: heres a template converted to a race thats ready to go. Period. No guess work about it (aside form channel resistance being a port of illusion resistance but i think its a very fair comparison.)


Skeletal Champion as a Race - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestia...letal-champion-cr-1/

Abilities
Flexible (2 RP)
+2 Str, +2 Dex

Skills
Skill Training x5 (5 RP)
Climb, Disguise, Fly, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Stealth are treated as class skills

Race Elements
Undead - 16 RP
Channel Resistance x2 - 2 RP (using Illusion resistance as a base)
 - + 4 to saving throws vs Channel Energy effects
Skeletal Damage Reduction (2 RP)
 - DR 5/bludgeoning.
Elemental Immunity (4 RP)
 - Cold
Natural Armor  - (varying RP)
 - Tiny to smaller
   + 0 Natural armor (0 RP)
 - Small
   + 1 Natural armor (2 RP)
 - Medium or Large
   + 2 Natural Armor (3 RP)
 - Huge
   + 3 Natural Armor (4 RP)
 - Gargantuan
   + 6 Natural Armor (7 RP)
 - Colossal
   + 10 Natural Armor (11 RP)


Attacks
Claws (2 RP)

Feats
Quick Reactions (2 RP)
Improved Initiative as a bonus feat.

Special
The Skeletal Champion template can only be added to a corporeal creature (other than an undead) that has a skeletal system and a minimum Intelligence of 3.
Skeletal Champions must gain 2 undead Racial HD (2d8). If it had any racial HD before, they become d8s as well.
this BP cost is paid by increasing your level by two. (Multiclass penalties may apply. Consult your GM for verification)
BAB is 3/4 HD
Skills are 4 + int / lvl
Saves are bad Fort, Reflx, good Will (1/3 HD, 1/3 HD, 1/2 HD +2)

Final cost to play a Skeletal Champion:
tiny or smaller:
35 RP + 2 lvls of BP in Undead HD
Small:
37 RP + 2 lvls of BP in Undead HD
Medium or Larger
38 RP + 2 lvls of BP in Undead HD
Huge
39 RP + 2 lvls of BP in Undead HD
Gargantuan
42 RP + 2 lvls of BP in Undead HD
Colossal
46 RP + 2 lvls of BP in Undead HD


Guys, i'm actually having a lot of fun with this. Call me crazy, but this kind of thing is something i wouldn't mind doing.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:43, Tue 02 Jan 2018.
Vry
Sorcerer 2,442, 380 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 15:43
  • msg #152

Re: OOC Discussion 8

Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1454 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 15:51
  • msg #153

Re: OOC Discussion 8

In reply to Vry (msg # 152):

Oh boy. Some of those abilities are going to be tough to figure out. I'll do what I can for it, but don't be surprised if i come back and say "Such-and-such ability is next to impossible to recreate with the given guidelines for creating races."
Vry
Sorcerer 2,442, 381 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 16:02
  • msg #154

Re: OOC Discussion 8

In reply to Latro Dectus (msg # 153):

Haha yeah, it looked much more complicated (but also much more cool!) than I thought it would when I googled fey template :P
Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1455 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Tue 2 Jan 2018
at 17:04
  • msg #155

Re: OOC Discussion 8

this is the best i could do with the need to sleep looming over my head:


Fey as a race

Fey (2 RP)

Abilities
Specialized (1 RP)
 +2 Int, +2 Cha, -2 Str

Advanced Dex x2 (RP 5)
 +4 Dex

Negative Natural Armor (-2 RP)
- 1 natural armor to minimum of 0

Mind Resistance X2 (2 RP) (illusion resistance as a base)
+ 4 racial bonus vs mind-affecting spell or effects

Shadow resistance x2 (4 RP)
Cold Resistance and Electricity Resistance 10

Fey Damage Resistance (3 RP) (6 RP if 12 HD or more)
DR 5/ cold Iron (10 if 12 HD or more)

Flight (7+ RP)
Good flight capabilities
Increase the RP cost by 1 for every 10 feet past 30 rounded up the base creature would be able to fly.
Increase the RP cost by 2 if the base creature gains perfect maneuverability.

Special
For every 4 HD the Fey possess, they gain one of the following abilities.

Camouflage (Ex) (10 RP)
A fey creature can use Stealth to hide in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain does not grant cover or concealment. It gains a +4 racial bonus on Stealth checks. This bonus does not stack with any racial Stealth bonus possessed by the base creature.

Change Shape (Su) (6 RP?)
A fey creature can change shape into a single form. Possible forms include a normal specimen of its base creature, a humanoid creature within one size category, or an animal within one size category. In all cases, the fey creature appears as the same individual of its alternate form each time it changes shape. The type of polymorph spell used should be chosen as appropriate based on the alternate form, such as alter self for taking humanoid form. This ability can be selected more than once, granting an additional form each time.

Energy Resistance (Ex) (2 RP)
A fey creature gains resistance 10 to one energy type, or increases an existing resistance by 10. Resistance increased beyond 30 becomes immunity instead. This ability can be selected more than once.

Evasion (Ex) (??? RP)
A fey creature gains evasion, as the rogue ability of the same name.

Long Step (Su) (??? RP)
A fey creature can teleport up to 10 feet per Hit Die as a move action. It may use this ability once every 1d4 rounds.

Spell Resistance (Ex) (3 RP)
A fey creature gains SR equal to 11 + its CR. This does not stack with any existing SR possessed by the base creature.

Trackless Step (Ex) (??? RP)
A fey creature does not leave a trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. It can choose to leave a trail, if it so desires.

Vanish (Su) (4-ish RP)
As a swift action, a fey creature can vanish for 1 round as if affected by invisibility. It can use this ability for 1 round per day per Hit Die.

Woodland Stride (Ex) (??? RP)
A fey creature can move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at its normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. Thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect it. Optionally, this ability may function in a different type of terrain, to allow the fey creature to move through, swamps, rocky areas, ice, and so forth. Whatever the choice, this ability only functions in one type of terrain. This ability can be selected more than once, for a different terrain each time.

Spell-Like Abilities: A fey creature with an Intelligence or Wisdom score of 8 or more has a cumulative number of spell-like abilities depending on its Hit Dice. Unless otherwise noted, an ability is usable once per day. Caster level equals the creature’s HD (or the caster level of the base creature’s spell-like abilities, whichever is higher).
HD     Abilities
1-2    Dancing lights 3/day, faerie fire (4 RP)
3-4    Entangle, glitterdust (3 RP)
5-6    Deep slumber (3 RP)
7-8    Major image (3 RP)
9-10   Confusion (3 RP)
11-12  Feeblemind (5 RP)
13-14  Mislead (6 RP)
15-16  Project image (7 RP)
17-18  Irresistible dance (8 RP)
19-20  Scintillating pattern (8 RP)

Final cost to play a Fey:
highly dependant upon your HD



Explanations:
Flight: flight says its a 4 RP cost that starts the creature at fly speed 30 with clumsy maneuverability and increases by 2 RP for 10 feet and upping the maneuverability by 1. Fey maneuverability is highly dependant on base creature's speed so i took the base 4 RP cost and added 3 on to it for good maneuverability, basically halving the increase cost to 1 because we're not im[proving the fly speed until we know the base creatures move speed.
Vanish is a spell like ability that functions as invisibility, but quickend. Normally this would be a lvl 6 equivalent spell but it's time is reduced to 1 round/level so i reduced the RP cost by 2 from 6. This is in no way official by the race creation rules, however.
All the SLAs have rp cost equal to their spell level on the class that would acquire the ability to cast them first. In all instances this is the wizard list except when its the druid. Technically speaking anything above lvl 4 doesn't have a method to reproduce it, but both spell like ability, lesser and spell like ability, greater say "the RP cost is equal to the spell level"
Everything marked with "??? RP" is something i currently have no reference for how to implements into a race. this may change in the future or it may not.


My personal notes: This race is going to a bitch to keep track of. The more you gain HD, the more this race is going to cost. Don't even think of dual-classing with this race unless you're keeping your classes within 1 level of one another and good luck paying for this race if your multiclassing with two bases races and a prestige.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:11, Tue 02 Jan 2018.
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