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Championship #15: Battle for the Belt.

Posted by GM ArkrimFor group 0
Boadicea
Barbarian 2,309, 899 posts
Advanced Human Barbarian
Sat 13 Jan 2018
at 22:11
  • msg #120

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

In reply to Josep Gavinho (msg # 119):

I do not believe that it is stated that it is required to as long as you post it to me but I do ask if it is something that makes noise attack/spell cast with somatic component you do list it as the others would hear it.
Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1478 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Sat 13 Jan 2018
at 22:28
  • msg #121

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

In reply to Boadicea (msg # 118):


Per Bo's last post i will list some sounds others can hear latro doing.

Latro drops a glass of something or another.
Latro casts a spell of some kind using his voice
Boadicea
Barbarian 2,309, 900 posts
Advanced Human Barbarian
Sat 13 Jan 2018
at 22:43
  • msg #122

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

In reply to Latro Dectus (msg # 121):

UGH...I am putting this out for all invisibility does not give a penalty for movement that has been gone over to many times.

quote:
The creature or object touched becomes invisible. If the recipient is a creature carrying gear, that vanishes, too. If you cast the spell on someone else, neither you nor your allies can see the subject, unless you can normally see invisible things or you employ magic to do so.

Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible.

Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as swimming in water or stepping in a puddle). If a check is required, a stationary invisible creature has a +40 bonus on its Stealth checks. This bonus is reduced to +20 if the creature is moving. The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions. Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area.


Bolded text does not say penalty just says you get less of a bonus so when attacking or casting with somatic component you are at +0 plus whatever your stealth modifier is.

If you can find a GM statement/official Pazio post that says different I will change how I see it otherwise this is how it is

Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1479 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Sat 13 Jan 2018
at 22:55
  • msg #123

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

In reply to Boadicea (msg # 122):

Ok, well, seeing as i rolled incorrect modifiers i leave it to my competitors to decide if i take a re-roll with correct mods or use my current roll -20.

however, i will say this:
the Arena rules on a -20 to stealth when you move, talk, ect. are a house rule as far as i'm aware and were made to simulate the stealth bonus reduction you got from invisibility. At least that's the way i remember it from way back when.
So there won't be any official Paizo errata on that.

The only real way we'll know is from a clarification post from Arkrim, which i will ask for in the OOC thread so as to not bog this down any further and to avoid penalty.

Until official clarification is provided, i will abide by Boa's ruling and procede.
GM Arkrim
GM, 6389 posts
Game Master
Sun 14 Jan 2018
at 02:48
  • msg #124

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

Latro Dectus:
Hey Arkrim, question for you so we can clear something up.

If i'm invisible, as per the invisibility spell, and i move my full speed across the arena as a move action, will i both receive a -20 to my stealth and have my invisibility bonus reduced by 20 as per invisibility rules for an effective +0 to stealth or does the bonus reduction from invisibility count as a -20 to stealth and thereby the two will not stack as per the stealth rules of the Arena for an effective +20 to stealth?

Same for if I do any of the other things listed in the rules on Stealth in the arena and move with invisibility active.

Requesting a GM ruling over a referee's before the match is over is valid regardless whether you post in OOC or PM. I have officially been summoned.

GM ruling: Bo is correct in her interpretation of the rules. Invisibility's bonus wavers between +20 or +40 based on RAW and movement. Arena's "house rule" is that you take a -20 penalty to Stealth for taking certain actions rather than "automatically failing" as per normal interpretations of the Stealth skill.
RAW Stealth:
Your Stealth immediately ends after you make an attack roll, whether or not the attack is successful (except when sniping as noted below)...
If you’ve already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location.
And remember "attack" as defined by the invisibility spell is pretty much any spell that affects an unwilling creature or the area an unwilling creature is in.

The Arena rules allow people to combine other methods of maintaining stealth at a penalty instead of restricting them to sniping (since sniping can only use ranged weapon attacks).

The arena house rule actually allows you to snipe with spells, or melee attacks, or even run away while invisible. However, the penalties make it difficult, so actually being stealthy is a must to pull it off (not just being a spellcaster).

However, as I can see new errata has been added to the Stealth skill since these rules were made, it is something to reconsider for the future, but for now it stands that Bo's interpretation is correct.



As I have ruled in favor of the referee and not the player that addressed me, that's 1 strike against Latro. First one is just a warning but just be extra cautious for the rest of the match.

GM out.
Boadicea
Barbarian 2,309, 903 posts
Advanced Human Barbarian
Sun 14 Jan 2018
at 02:57
  • msg #125

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

In reply to GM Arkrim (msg # 124):

If you are giving him a foul that's a second I gave him one for trying to slide a template in (which had been discussed before and turned down)

GM Arkrim
GM, 6390 posts
Game Master
Sun 14 Jan 2018
at 03:07
  • msg #126

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

In reply to Boadicea (msg # 125):

Well, then a second one it is.
Boadicea
Barbarian 2,309, 905 posts
Advanced Human Barbarian
Mon 15 Jan 2018
at 07:49
  • msg #127

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

Haran has brought up a valid point for you guys burrowing it is not a stealth check that the perception roll needs to beat it is a DC 25 + (distance)+ (how deep you are)
Josep Gavinho
Wizard 1,987, 1189 posts
Human Wizard
TA - 1,687 BP
Mon 15 Jan 2018
at 08:58
  • msg #128

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

Cool cool cool, so we don’t need to roll stealth, we’re automatically considered hidden with a base DC 25. Good to know.
Boadicea
Barbarian 2,309, 906 posts
Advanced Human Barbarian
Mon 15 Jan 2018
at 12:16
  • msg #129

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

In reply to Josep Gavinho (msg # 128):

and it works in the inverse as well so Latro is at a DC25 +... form you burrowers to find
Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1482 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 00:09
  • msg #130

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

So then, i guess because it doesn't matter for whoever is burrowing, I leave the decision on to re-roll my stealth with correct mods or take my current roll at a -20 penalty to whomever is not currently burrowing, whoever that may be.

regardless, i'm pretty certain it's Haran's turn at this point and my post was on saturday at 15:00-ish hours.
It's now 48 past that point.

Now, this is not me calling 48, per say as there was a bit about stealth mods and what not going on but as far as combat posts go, it is past 48 from that.

from an official GM post hower, Haran has got about 3 hours left to make a post.

I leave it to the Ref to decide if Haran's 48 hours has expired.
Josep Gavinho
Wizard 1,987, 1190 posts
Human Wizard
TA - 1,687 BP
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 00:16
  • msg #131

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

I wouldn’t be able to take my turn before noon GMT tomorrow anyway, so I won’t call 48h before then. I’m not sure if anyone can call it or only the player whose turn it is ?
Josep Gavinho
Wizard 1,987, 1191 posts
Human Wizard
TA - 1,687 BP
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 00:38
  • msg #132

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

Pm
Boadicea
Barbarian 2,309, 907 posts
Advanced Human Barbarian
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 01:45
  • msg #133

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

In reply to Josep Gavinho (msg # 132):
Haran Madar
Sorcerer 1,121, 259 posts
Human Sorcerer
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 02:24
  • msg #134

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

I'm here, I'll have my post up shortly.
Haran Madar
Sorcerer 1,121, 260 posts
Human Sorcerer
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 03:28
  • msg #135

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

“Do you want to try it Haran?” The voice said inside the sorcerer’s mind.

The sorcerer grinned.


 ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRST 
1+2*+2******  +2+2       +2+21
2+2*+2******  +2+2       +2+22
3*****+2***      +2     3
4*****+2***      +2     4
5*****+2***      +2     5
6**+2*+2*+2*+2*+2*+2+2  +2+2+2+2+2+2+2  6
7*****+2**       +2     7
8  ***+2        +2     8
9     +2        +2     9
10+2+2       +2+2       +2+210
11+2+2       +2+2       +2+211
12     +2        +2     12
13     +2        +2     13
14     +2        +2     14
15  +2+2+2+2+2+2+2  +2+2+2+2e2+2e2+2e2+2e3e3e315
16     +2        +2e2e2e2e3e3e316
17     +2        +2e2e2e2e3e3e317
18     +2        +2e1e1e1   18
19+2+2       +2+2   e1e1e1BB+2J+2J19
20+2+2       +2+2   e1e1e1BB+2J+2J20
 ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRST 

1st Josep (36)
2nd Brakt (24)
3rd Latro (18)(+11)
4th Haran (18)(+5)

ROUND: Round 1 (18)
POSITION: ??? to ???
     ACTIONS: Cast spell  (Standard), (Swift), (Move)

HP: 130/130 (0 nonlethal)
AC: 19; FFAC: 14; Touch: 15
CMD: 23; FFCMD 18; FFTAC: 10

EFFECTS: - 2/13 Spell 1, 2/130 Spell 2, 2/13 Spell 3, 1/780 Spell 4, 1/5 Spell 5

GEAR: - Headband, belt, rod, shirt, cloak, slippers, potion, potion, elixir, elixir, scroll, scroll, scroll, statue (mini), statue (mini), backpack, belt pouch, dagger, sling, component pouch, spellbook

USES: - spell lvl 1 0/?, spell lvl 2 0/?, spell lvl 3 1/?, spell lvl 4 0/?, spell lvl 5 2/?, spell lvl 6 2/?. .

Minions: Position ?? To ?? , HP 13/13 (5 nonlethal), [AC 14, FFAC 14, TAC 14, CMD 15, FFCMD 13, FFTAC 10, Fort +5, Refl +5, Will +1]

Actions:

Effects: -

DICE ROLLS: - 21:01, Today: Haran Madar rolled 14 using 1d20+2 with rolls of 12.  Intentional jump down, acrobatics to avoid dmg (minion).
-21:02, Today: Haran Madar rolled 5 using 1d6 with rolls of 5.  Nonlethal falling dmg.
-21:19, Today: Haran Madar rolled 31 using 1d20+26 with rolls of 5.  Minion stealth.

SUMMARY: - Haran casts some spells. Perception DC31 +distance for minion.


OOC:
Josep Gavinho
Wizard 1,987, 1192 posts
Human Wizard
TA - 1,687 BP
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 07:50
  • msg #136

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

Pm
Josep Gavinho
Wizard 1,987, 1193 posts
Human Wizard
TA - 1,687 BP
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 09:21
  • msg #137

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

Here we go, round 2. It starts with that:

08:42, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 33 using 1d20+16 with rolls of 17.  Free perception check e3.
08:41, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 35 using 1d20+16 with rolls of 19.  Free perception check e2.
08:41, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 23 using 1d20+16 with rolls of 7.  Free perception check e1.
08:40, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 32 using 1d20+14 with rolls of 18.  Free perception check Do.
08:38, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 6 using 1d20 with rolls of 6.  Prescience roll.
08:35, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 17 using 1d20+16 with rolls of 1.  Free perception check.

Does anyone know where Haran and/or Latro are? My feeling is that at least Do, e2 and e3 should have pinpointed Latro.
Could Latro and/or Boa confirm? Haran as well, if one of the Elemental pinpoints him in the dark.
Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1483 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 09:24
  • msg #138

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

In reply to Josep Gavinho (msg # 137):

That all really depends on if i'm using my stealth mod as rolled -20 or i'm re-rolling.
It's not my call, per arena rules, so i've been waiting for someone to tell me what to do about it.
Josep Gavinho
Wizard 1,987, 1194 posts
Human Wizard
TA - 1,687 BP
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 09:37
  • msg #139

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

You rolled a 6. Who in their right mind would ask you to re-roll that?
If it’s up to me, keep the roll and apply the correct mod.
Brakt
Brawler 2,929, 574 posts
Ogre Brawler
SotVD
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 09:43
  • msg #140

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

For the sake of getting this done with faster, can we just go with current roll -20?  That leaves Latro with a stealth check of 24+Distance.

Haran didn't roll stealth last turn, so either he's been located, or is underground.  I'll leave that up to Boa.

If everyone else is happy with this, Josep should pinpoint Latro if within 110" of E2.

Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1484 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 09:57
  • msg #141

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

In reply to Josep Gavinho (msg # 139):

there's always the chance i could roll lower. :P

but now that one two of my fellow gladiators has spoken i can say Latro's DC to locate is 24 + distance

for e2, that DC becomes anywhere between 29 to 30, depending on how we factor hight ino the equation for distance to perceive stealthy opponents.

for e3, the DC becomes anywhere between 30 to 31, once again, depending on how we factor hight.

finally, there's the fact that i personally would consider any elementals that attacked Brakt last turn distracted so thats an additional +5 to the DC to locate Latro.

even with all that, e2 at the very least would still manage to pinpoint Latro unless there is anything else that would hinder it.

Latro's location reveled to Josep through a PM below.
Josep Gavinho
Wizard 1,987, 1195 posts
Human Wizard
TA - 1,687 BP
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 12:37
  • msg #142

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

  One of the Air Elementals has pinpointed Latro, and she’s quick to share te information with the others. They do what they do best: unleash a flurry of windy slams on an unsuspecting target... not quite as efficiently as one would have hoped though.

 Josep stays underground.

ROUND: 2 (Initiative: 36)
 POSITION: ??? 
 ACTIONS:
- free: perception check
- free: Prescience d20 Roll (6)
- Swift: none
- Standard: ???
- move: ???

 HP: 134/168 (0 nonlethal)
 AC: 25; FFAC: 21; Touch: 14
CMD: 25; FFCMD: 19; FFTAC: 09

EFFECTS: - Greater Arcane Sight 6/140, See Invisibility 6/140, Summon Monster 5/14, Elemental Body 5/140, Mirror Image 4/140 (6 figments), XXX 3/14, total cover, xxx 1/14
   GEAR: - Backpack, belt pouch, dagger, sling, component pouch, spellbook, Ioun Stone, Headband, Boots, Bracers, Cloak, Rod, Scroll x4, Hourglass 1h, Belt (ACP 0, Light Load)

MINIONS:
Greater Air Elemental (x3)

 HP: 123/123 (0 nonlethal)
 AC: 25; FFAC: 19; Touch: 14
CMD: 43; FFCMD: 33; FFTAC: 08

Positions:
e1 at O18,+3 to L5,+3
e2 at O15,+4 to J2,+3
e3 at R15, +3 to M2,+3

Actions (all):
Free - perception
Move - fly to new position
Standard - attack Latro towards end of move (flyby)

Do the Dodo
 HP: 77/77 (0 nonlethal)
 AC: 18; FFAC: 18; Touch: 10
CMD: 7; FFCMD: 7; FFTAC: 10

Position : T18
Actions : none

   USES: - Prescience 4/11 ; Spells: 7th 2/x, 6th 4/x, 5th 0/x, 4th 0/x, 3rd 0/x, 2nd 0/x, 1st 2/x ; Rod 1/3 ; Scrolls 2/4

DICE ROLLS:
11:12, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 29,73,23,28 using D20+17,d100,d100,2d8+15 with rolls of 12,73,23,7,6.  e3 flyby attack vs Latro (power attack, concealment, blindfight reroll if required, damage).
11:11, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 27,97,16,22 using D20+17,d100,d100,2d8+15 with rolls of 10,97,16,6,1.  e1 flyby attack vs Latro (power attack, concealment, blindfight reroll if required, damage).
11:10, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 28,15,26,26 using D20+17,d100,d100,2d8+15 with rolls of 11,15,26,5,6.  e2 flyby attack vs Latro (power attack, concealment, blindfight reroll if required, damage).
08:42, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 33 using 1d20+16 with rolls of 17.  Free perception check e3.
08:41, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 35 using 1d20+16 with rolls of 19.  Free perception check e2.
08:41, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 23 using 1d20+16 with rolls of 7.  Free perception check e1.
08:40, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 32 using 1d20+14 with rolls of 18.  Free perception check Do.
08:38, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 6 using 1d20 with rolls of 6.  Prescience roll.
08:35, Today: Josep Gavinho rolled 17 using 1d20+16 with rolls of 1.  Free perception check.

   SUMMARY:
The elementals all strike Latro, but only one hits for 28 Bludgeon damage
Josep does nothing, as far as anyone can tell. Dodo stays idly by.


ooc: Sorry i didn’t update the map, just too tedious from my phone. I’ve indicated the lowest top right hand corner of each position, if someone who’s on a computer wants to update. Thanks
Latro Dectus
Antipaladin 3,151, 1485 posts
Drow N. Antipaladin
Shadow's Caress
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 14:40
  • msg #143

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

To the elemental's surprise, they do not see Latro when they go to strike their target and none of them actually hit anything when they do strike. Their fists only meet the air.
Even the one who would have succeeded on a concealment check does not even initially strike Latro.
It's very curious.
Josep Gavinho
Wizard 1,987, 1196 posts
Human Wizard
TA - 1,687 BP
Tue 16 Jan 2018
at 18:46
  • msg #144

Re: Championship #15: Battle for the Belt

Curious indeed ;)

Brakt is up I reckon ?
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