Poll #35: Playtest.   Posted by GM Arkrim.Group: 0
GM Arkrim
 GM, 6461 posts
 Game Master
Sun 25 Mar 2018
at 10:48
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
Jayce the Tamer:
Dibs on necromancer.

I'd be more than happy to do so. Can we mix and match homebrew(your content) with paizo stuff(feats basically)?

Well yes, but for each playtest you'd want to focus on one thing or another without watering it down too much.

For example, if you're playtesting necromancer, you're 100% necromancer not 2 levels of necromancer and 13 summoner for example. :P
Jayce the Tamer
 Summoner 4,331, 480 posts
 Human Summoner
Sun 25 Mar 2018
at 11:03
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
Just the feats and gear. All necromancer for me. It's a spellcasting fighter! Instead of feats it gets necrotic power. Class looks dope.
Grunyar Fangblood
 Summoner 3,236, 805 posts
 Skinwalker Summoner
Sun 25 Mar 2018
at 12:07
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
I want you in, hope there can be more than one person on each class, I haven't read threw them yet but Dread Necromancer was my favorite D&D class.

Warlock looks fun

This message was last edited by the player at 13:35, Sun 25 Mar 2018.

GM Arkrim
 GM, 6462 posts
 Game Master
Sun 25 Mar 2018
at 16:52
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
Grunyar Fangblood:
I want you in, hope there can be more than one person on each class, I haven't read threw them yet but Dread Necromancer was my favorite D&D class.

Warlock looks fun

Yeah, you guys caught me. My Necromancer is essentially a Pathfinderized version of Dread Necromancer from D&D 3.5. It was also one of my favorite classes.

It's about as "fightery" as a Cleric since more than half of its spells are Cleric spells and the other half are necromancy-specific.

Warlock is for people who like Magus but want to cast spontaneously. Also, it pays homage to 3.5 Warlock. The At-Will supernatural powers were sweeeeet, even if they weren't super strong. At will was so nice.
Brakt
 Brawler 3,972, 626 posts
 Ogre Brawler
 The Order
Mon 26 Mar 2018
at 02:25
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
Haven't looked through everything yet, but I'm so down for a Dracolyte :)
Jayce the Tamer
 Summoner 4,331, 517 posts
 Human Summoner
Tue 27 Mar 2018
at 13:32
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
quote:
Summon Undead (Sp): 5th level
By expending 1 daily use of their necrotic touch ability, the necromancer can summon an undead creature as a spell-like ability. This functions as the summon nature's ally I spell except that they can summon any undead creature with a challenge rating equal to the spell level * 1.5 or lower (rounded down). They cannot customize their own undead creature by applying templates to other creatures in the bestiary, but they can select any existing undead from the bestiary that matches these CR restrictions. For 2 daily uses, they can increase the spell level to 2nd level and thus the maximum possible challenge rating. This power can be selected multiple times. Each time its selected after the first, it increases the maximum spell level it can be cast at by 2, to a maximum spell level equal to one-third the necromancer's class level.


Would you be willing to increase maximum spell level from 1/3 necromancer level to 1/2 necromancer level to stay in line with summon monster/nature's ally power?

20th level necromancer can summon a maximum spell level 6(unless it is 7 since every investment after first it goes up by 2). For a maximum CR of 9. Summon Monster/Nature's Ally 9 can spawn a maximum of CR 14(At sorcerer/wizard/druid 17 no less).

But I could be missing the important detail of spending an extra use of necrotic power.
At first level it doubles from spell level 1 to spell level 2. What does it do when maxed? Spell level 6/7 to what?

This message was last edited by the GM at 00:55, Wed 28 Mar 2018.

GM Arkrim
 GM, 6466 posts
 Game Master
Wed 28 Mar 2018
at 00:55
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
In reply to Jayce the Tamer (msg # 8):

Necromancer design originally had only up to 6th level spells. Still updating, but yeah it will do that eventually.
GM Arkrim
 GM, 6473 posts
 Game Master
Thu 29 Mar 2018
at 16:16
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
Classes Ready for playtest:

Adventurer
Berserker
Death Knight
Dracolyte
Monk (my version)
Necromancer
Warlock
Josep Gavinho
 Wizard 4,387, 1410 posts
 Human Wizard
 Thaumaturgical Alliance
Thu 29 Mar 2018
at 17:27
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
I might take a jab at the Warlock
GM Arkrim
 GM, 6474 posts
 Game Master
Fri 30 Mar 2018
at 00:52
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
Initiating a playtest requires only that you challenge someone the same way you would a Monster Mash only instead of selecting monsters you create characters using the playtest material.

You can use any of your alts at any time to apply the BP to them, but your BP limit is based on the alt you use.

That easy, that simple.

Playtest is open.
Grunyar Fangblood
 Summoner 3,236, 813 posts
 Skinwalker Summoner
Fri 30 Mar 2018
at 01:10
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
In reply to GM Arkrim (msg # 12):

Awesome!!! So the "at any time" mean we are able to do a (only one I assume) playtest battle even if the character is locked in a never ending monster hunter?
GM Arkrim
 GM, 6475 posts
 Game Master
Fri 30 Mar 2018
at 02:45
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
In reply to Grunyar Fangblood (msg # 13):

No, it means you don't have to change their official class. You just do the same thing you'd normally do with monster mash but build a character from scratch each time.

Given BP and customization, shouldn't be too difficult.

Unless you don't have alts.

Then you need to get to 1v1 dueling and stop doing other stuff until you have an alt.
GM Arkrim
 GM, 6512 posts
 Game Master
Thu 7 Jun 2018
at 12:23
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
The clock is ticking...



Soon the Pathfinder arena will go full RAW and the playtest will be open to all. Another month or so to completion. Please make sure you have a build prepared to deal with 100% RAW Pathfinder (all the official errata will still be used but not the arena errata).

Playtesters will have their own separate leaderboard, so that Pathfinders and Playtesters are kept separate.

Each arena character will have to choose to go Pathfinder RAW or Playtest.



Do you all want the playtest hosted here or do you think you'd prefer a separate game forum be opened for it? IF a separate site is done, you'll have a separate account (so 3 more characters for everyone) BUT it will take me more time.

A) Same forum.
B) Separate forum.

Votes please.
Josep Gavinho
 Wizard 7,544, 1524 posts
 Human Wizard
 Thaumaturgical Alliance
Thu 7 Jun 2018
at 12:52
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
A

I barely have time to keep up with two active characters ...
Latro Dectus
 Antipaladin 5,031, 1667 posts
 Drow N. Antipaladin
 Shadow's Caress
Thu 7 Jun 2018
at 12:55
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
I'm fine with the same forum

A
Jayce the Tamer
 Summoner 10,830, 702 posts
 Human Summoner
Thu 7 Jun 2018
at 14:52
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
A. I'm fine with the same forum as well.
GM Arkrim
 GM, 6524 posts
 Game Master
Wed 11 Jul 2018
at 04:27
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
Here's what's going to happen in the upcoming months.

The arena will be split into two zones:

Pathfinder RAW & Playtest.


Pathfinder RAW
Will use all Paizo rules as written with only 3 house rules (not including the normal rules of the arena for OOC stuff):
(1) BP is used to determine power level and all the stuff that comes with that.
(2) You reset and regenerate everything after every battle.
(3) Supplements cost extra. That is, you have to keep track of all supplement books you use (any books other than the Core Rule Book, Game Master Guide, and Bestiary 1) and you suffer a penalty based on the number of supplements you use. For each supplement book you use, you are treated as 1 level higher than you actually are and must pay the BP for it.

NOTE: If your opponent uses supplement books, this applies to them too. You can agree to use the same number of supplement books as part of your extras/terms before the match and not have to worry about this. Note this means hero points cannot be used unless they are added as an extra.

You can still add extras and terms (such as arena immunities) as you see fit if you agree to them before the battle.


Playtest
This area will use all Arkrim's house rules on the site including custom races, classes, items, spells, feats, etc.


Pathfinder RAW vs. Playtest characters will only be allowed as sparring matches, never Leaderboard rewards. However, if you do an exact mirror match, you both gain +1 hero point for participating. Mirror matches will be explained later (they involve you pitting Playtest classes against their Pathfinder equivalents).


It will take time to update all this, but this change should be complete in the next couple of months.
Igar-Kruk
 Barbarimonk 2,396, 82 posts
 Gnoll Barbarian/Monk
Wed 11 Jul 2018
at 09:11
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
GM Arkrim:
(3) Supplements cost extra. That is, you have to keep track of all supplement books you use (any books other than the Core Rule Book, Game Master Guide, and Bestiary 1) and you suffer a penalty based on the number of supplements you use. For each supplement book you use, you are treated as 1 level higher than you actually are and must pay the BP for it.

That sounds like a huge pain in the ass, especially since most of us build straight from d20pfsrd, which is not great when it comes to trying to stick to only some books. Plus it isn't always reliable when it comes to the sources it links.

And it pretty much kills my interest in the arena in one fell swoop, as one of its main draws for me is being able to test weird combinations, which this would heavily disincentivize.

This message was last edited by the player at 09:13, Wed 11 July 2018.

GM Arkrim
 GM, 6526 posts
 Game Master
Wed 11 Jul 2018
at 10:51
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
In reply to Igar-Kruk (msg # 20):

So agree with your opponent not to track. Pre-battle agreements can pretty much overcome and ignore anything if both parties are interested. All its doing is making sure you mention the fact that you don't want to track supplements or that you've used X number of supplements.
Latro Dectus
 Antipaladin 5,031, 1762 posts
 Drow N. Antipaladin
 Shadow's Caress
Fri 13 Jul 2018
at 12:48
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
Yeah, I'm definitely going to be asking to ignore the BP bump on books and such. At the very least for regular matches and monster hunts. Championships on the other hand....well, let's just say there may be some negotiation.
GM Arkrim
 GM, 6527 posts
 Game Master
Sat 14 Jul 2018
at 18:36
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
And you can do that on every single match.

But people who don't want to do that don't have to.

It simply sets the precedent that acknowledges that more books = more power and versatility than fewer books. Which, if you're familiar with this game, is just common sense to you.




Although, I was considering a different formula.

Fighter-types afterall have trouble keeping up with spellcasters without the use of supplements and items.

So I thought maybe doing:

Level Adjustment = (1/10th accumulative CL + 1/10th HD+MR) * 1/5 number of supplement books

So a level 10 Wizard using 6 supplements would have a LA of (1+1=2)*1.2= +2 while a level 10 Fighter using 6 supplements would have a LA of (0+1=1)*1.2 = +1. If these two fought each other in a duel, it would effectively leave the wizard at +1 LA and the fighter at +0 to simplify (so the wizard would be effectively level 11 and the fighter would still be level 10 when calculating BP).

A level 20 paladin using 6 supplements would have an LA of (1.7+2=3.7)*1.2= +3.

A level 20 sorcerer mythic rank 10 using 10 supplements would have an LA of (2+3=5)*2= +10. Which is pretty much the most extreme case you could get (since using more than 10 supplements is pretty crazy, I believe our average was 6 something a while back and 14 books was a record for an item-creation caster a long while back).


This would allow the supplement penalty to scale with extremes and reduce its severity for lower level characters.

Not that you will worry about it if you strictly only compete in games that don't use it.

This message was last edited by the GM at 19:32, Sat 14 July 2018.

Latro Dectus
 Antipaladin 5,031, 1764 posts
 Drow N. Antipaladin
 Shadow's Caress
Sat 14 Jul 2018
at 19:34
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
So, putting the alternant formula aside, assume that there was a lvl 20 character with 10 mythic ranks. Assuming they were using only the three free books as well as mythic ranks, they would have to pay for their character as if they were lvl 31, right?
So, what's the cost on a lvl 31 character? the table only goes to lvl 30.
GM Arkrim
 GM, 6529 posts
 Game Master
Sat 14 Jul 2018
at 21:39
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
In reply to Latro Dectus (msg # 24):

I doubt anyone will get beyond 30 any time soon but the formula on the table would just keep going.

Every 2 levels you're double the previous rounded up to the nearest increment of the 10, 25, 50 pattern (and the level in between is just the average between the level before and the level after).

So because 30 is 500,000, that means 32nd would be 1,000,000 and 31 would be (1 mil + 1/2 mil = 1.5 / 2 = 0.75 mil = 750,000) and so on and so forth.

Of course, at those levels the LA for books starts to catch up to you. 1/10th of 30 is 3, so a FULL caster at MR 10 would essentially be paying +1 level adjustment per book beyond the 1st.

And no, I will not count MR against the user in the calculation IF they have 20+ HD. So there's at least that.
Latro Dectus
 Antipaladin 5,031, 1765 posts
 Drow N. Antipaladin
 Shadow's Caress
Sat 14 Jul 2018
at 22:06
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
GM Arkrim:
In reply to Latro Dectus (msg # 24):

I doubt anyone will get beyond 30 any time soon but the formula on the table would just keep going.

Every 2 levels you're double the previous rounded up to the nearest increment of the 10, 25, 50 pattern (and the level in between is just the average between the level before and the level after).

So because 30 is 500,000, that means 32nd would be 1,000,000 and 31 would be (1 mil + 1/2 mil = 1.5 / 2 = 0.75 mil = 750,000) and so on and so forth.

Of course, at those levels the LA for books starts to catch up to you. 1/10th of 30 is 3, so a FULL caster at MR 10 would essentially be paying +1 level adjustment per book beyond the 1st.

And no, I will not count MR against the user in the calculation IF they have 20+ HD. So there's at least that.

those are some cool beans right there. thanks!
GM Arkrim
 GM, 6530 posts
 Game Master
Thu 19 Jul 2018
at 04:19
Re: Poll #35: Playtest
Playtest is taking a while.

Can I get a list of the most popular and well-known things people think should be built first?

Top 20 Feats, Spells, and Class Features to get by Level 5 or lower.

Everyone submit your own list and I'll cross reference them.