In reply to Kessa (msg # 1354):

Wow, she was even upset about feeding you?  And no water?  She's lucky you didn't all get dehydrated and pass out!  What a tool, do any of you even still speak to her?

In reply to Brianna (msg # 1355):

She picked a place of moderate expense and then complained that if she ordered food from there for everyone it was going to be expensive. We were all lucky it was an uncharacteristically cool day and a few of us brought our own drinks. I haven't gone over since I moved her even though she is just down the block. I'm not sure about others.

In reply to Kessa (msg # 1356):

I don't blame you, I think I'd consider moving away.  Well, at least crossing the street to avoid her if I saw her coming.

My one remaining face-to-face game is being reduced to "whenever one person can handle it" and being co-opted as therapy, and I do not like it.

So, over the past three years my face-to-face gaming group (and good friends) has moved to various other parts of the country, thousands of miles away in some cases.  As of last August, none of them are in town, and we only recently started gaming again live via the internet.

That makes the one face-to-face game I have left important to me.  This game is one I also DM.  It's for two of my husband's co-workers, both of whom are entirely new to gaming.   Hubby wanted them to learn D&D 3.5, as its his favorite system.  (Any protestations to the contrary that perhaps new gamers should perhaps start on a simpler system fell on deaf ears.)

The two co-workers need a lot of help, but they seem to having fun over the past year we've gamed.  However, one of them, a woman I will call Jane, is falling into the same pattern as one woman in my other gaming group.  I will call her Elle.  Elle has a bright personality, creative, funny, effervescent; she's a joy to be around and a fantastic roleplayer.  However, she has a lot of mental health issues, and in the last few years before she moved they began to take over her life.  While she was trying to get help, and we were as supportive as we could (coming over to her if she couldn't come over to us, bringing her food, driving her places, rescheduling things to when she was feeling more up for them), past a certain point we simply couldn't wait on Elle.  She understood that, because it had gotten to a point where we were constantly waiting until the literal last minute to see if she would be able to show up for any given event.

I very much understood what was going on - I have been through times in my life for very similar things.  I have been in treatment for them and know how difficult it can be.

(Elle moved to be closer to more helpful family members, is getting better help, and is doing much better.)

However, we are starting to go through the exact same thing with Jane.  She has also been diagnosed with various mental health issues, and is getting help.  But this also means that for several months we have been waiting until maybe half a day's notice to see if we're gaming or not.  Sometimes the answer wouldn't come until the afternoon of the game (a few hours before).  With my work schedule, that meant I never knew if I needed to get the house clean and get up early, or if I could sleep in that day (as I'm nocturnal).  I understand that mustering the wherewithal for social interaction can be difficult for all the above-stated reasons, but I feel it's disrespectful to keep me waiting until a few hours beforehand to know if you're going to show up or not.  I'd like 24 hours' notice, at least, so I can plan my free time accordingly.

As Jane is going to continue to be unreliable because of her issues and her treatment (which I am happy she's getting), the other co-worker doesn't want to game with just my husband (as it leaves Jane out).  I proposed getting some other people in the group, so we would have a quorum, and thusly could game on a more continuous basis, rotating characters in and out as necessary, but keeping the game on a regular schedule.

But Jane doesn't want other people in the group, as she's socially shy and doesn't want to "embarrass" herself in front of other people.  As a note, the people I wanted to bring in are not the kind who would do such a thing; I'd never invite them to my house if they were.  I brought it up to my husband, and he doesn't want other people either if Jane doesn't.  He's content to game whenever she can muster up the wherewithal... and if the other co-worker is free that night too.

So the one face-to-face group I have is subject to whether or not one person is feeling up for it.  I can't add anyone else to the group, because she wouldn't like it.  And I don't have enough free time to add another game elsewhere with different people.  If this situation doesn't improve, I am likely going to cancel the game entirely.  I don't mind seeing these people socially, but as it seems that our interaction will be sporadic, I don't want to invest in making a game that no one can remember what we were doing or how to play from session to session.

Ouch! I feel for you, Isida. It can be difficult to figure out where to go in situations like that. Especially since it could so easily blow into a 'domestic'.
Seems to me the key to this is getting your husband onside.

Does he realize how much pressure this is putting on you? (and if he's a man, no, it isn't obvious, it'll have to be explained to him in words of one syllable).

Maybe you need to show him the message you posted here, or present him with something very similar, so he truly understands how this is affecting you.

I suspect at present he sees you as the 'capable woman' dismissing 'poor Jane's' problems. See if you can summon his inner Paladin to protect you instead of Jane - without it seeming like a bitchy 'it's me or her' ultimatum. A few tears of your own might not go amiss.

Once you have your husband backing you, hopefully the rest of the situation should fall into place, you can form a more stable group, and 'Jane' can decide for herself when or if she plays, without her issues dragging your game down.

I'm reminded of the term 'enabling' with matters of this nature, but I can't say whether it fits here.

Obviously, only you know how to handle your husband or your friends, and only you can decide whether this suggestion is valid for you. I don't want you citing me in a divorce case! ;)

Good luck.

If they're friends worth keeping, they don't care about the state of your house. That said, if cleaning is a genuine issue - piles of stuff causing you stress, neglected washing up threatening to moulderise and so on - it might help to do it the night before potential games on the regular anyway, to build a habit that makes the threat of potential embarrassment less pressing on you. That only leaves the getting up issue, and Jane surely can't object to being told that you now have obligations (no need to be specific) that require 24 hours' notice to rearrange for game, so she has to shift her decision period back a bit.

Lastly, you aren't welded to the campaign - play something else (of your own choice rather than your husband's) with the other folk if you can't with these lads, maybe on a different night/at their place. That way you have a fallback you're automatically invested in holding up that support in your life. Part of recovery or learning to deal with permanent Issues is taking responsibility for handling their effects on one's life: communication and boundaries will help Jane with that.

Getting the house ready is not as much of an issue; Hubby and I work on that together and usually do most of it a couple days ahead.  It's the constant waiting of "will we, won't we" that grinds my gears, no matter the cause.  And because we're in this very tentative pattern of gaming, I don't want to commit to another group with the same expectation of, "I'll show up only if this other person can't make it tonight, and I'll only be able to tell you less than 24 hours beforehand."  That's not fair to another group.

I've brought up much of this to my husband before, though perhaps more framed in scheduling conflicts than in the frustration I'm feeling.  I have mentioned the comparison to Elle and pointed out we seem to be headed down the same road, in terms of how Elle's availability dictated how we spent some of our free time.

Hubby is a bit of white knight when it comes to helping people.  I understand and I very much understand Jane needs help and accommodation (like Elle did), but I have also learned that I must set boundaries and not get sucked into being a crutch.

If we can't get this resolved after discussion (once we are past a current spate of scheduling issues from all sides of the table), I will need to sit down with them and figure out what anyone actually WANTS from this game.  And if the most enthusiasm I can get is a shrug, then we can cancel it and go do regular occasional friend nights with movies and board games.  If no one's interested in sharing a story with me as a Dungeon Master, then I am not going to hold this game together with my will and bare hands.

I feel your pain, Isida. My spouse and I also have a (supposed to be) weekly game, that never seems to happen. If we get ANY notice at all, it's a text from the DM saying he's on his way (about an hour in advance). Nine times out of ten, the DM and his wife (who plays) just don't show up, without any notice whatsoever. I quit bothering to clean the house, or plan in advance for dinner (I tend to feed everyone on game nights, or used to), because it's lately just gotten to where I assume they're not going to show.

Because they don't, and can't be bothered to send a text or call and say 'Hey, we're not feeling it today' (they have some health issues, so that's understandable). I've gotten over it, mostly, although I'm still having to explain to my son (who started learning to play D&D in this group, recently) that 'no, it doesn't look like game will happen this week. Sorry'. Thanks, irresponsible DM & wife, for making it so *I* get to constantly disappoint my son... but that's another story.

It's pretty much ruining my ability to care about these people as friends (and it's worth noting that they have been, up to this point, pretty much the closest friends we have) because it's just so... disrespectful? Rude? Inconsiderate? I'm not sure what the words are, but in the day and age of cell phones and constant ability to communicate, there's just no excuse for making other people wait until the last minute to find out if/when you're going to show up at a pre-arranged event. Maybe it's just me.

Wanting 24 hours' notice seems perfectly reasonable. I hope you can find a way to get it.

It's great that everyone is getting the help they need first and foremost, because life takes priority over games. But it sounds to me like Jane is dictating a lot of what's going on with other people's free time and more than that, she's jerking others around with her unpredictability. The gracious thing for Jane to do is the make the allowance that she's not able to be reliable and allow others to work around her without forcing everything to grind to a halt on her own account. But seeing as she's not willing to do this, I feel you have at least three options.

1. You tell Jane and your husband that you will end the game if it can't be kept regular, whether that means adding more people that Jane (when she is actually there) will just have to get used to, or Jane making more solid commitments and at a minimum giving you the notice you need. It's too much work for something no one can keep up with and there's a good deal of respect to the GM lacking in the current situation.

2. You turn this game into a one-shot, or a toss-around game that doesn't care too much about continuity to make it easier to follow and require less work on your part. Maybe use any extra time saved from doing this to run another game another night, the way you want to.

3. Cancel the game outright and start a new game with the people who are more predictable. Jane is welcome to join that game, but there's not going to be any undue accommodations on her behalf since it's not centering on her needs in the first place.

Outside of that, you can certainly support and interact with Jane in other ways, but it seems she's not willing to be courteous with your time or others in the current situation with the current game and for me, with the amount of time I can invest in games, that's a big deal breaker.

I can understand how it can be difficult to predict 24 hours or more ahead whether you are going to feel up to something (I have that issue too, but for physical problems), but I think Jane needs to back off on dictating whether you are allowed to add more people.  It may be stressful for her, but the way it is now her problems are controlling too much of your life as well as hers.  Perhaps it would be better if she were in a game with just you and your husband, on an evening you keep free with alternate plans also involving just you two, and your son could be in another game that is more predicable.

It's not clear to me whether you have spelled out to your husband that you are on the verge of cancelling the game altogether.  As someone else said, you need to tell him this in plain and simple words.  ;-)  Then the two of you could brainstorm together, maybe with your son also, for a workable solution.

Well, my rant is quite a bit less important than the one above (Hope you get your gaming fixed Isida).
Just looked at a game which seemed interesting in concept, starting up again after some players left etc.  Then I see that the requirements to get in are around 10 paragraphs (minimum) and I think "Woah, that's a lot for a game that has already died once." Then I look at the house rules and there are sosny that it isn't even close to the advertised system anymore.  I kept trying to hold on because the game is actually one I really want to play but I didn't even get through the whole house rules section before I just decided it was too much.

Do people really not realize how much they are asking for in some of these games?

In reply to PCO.Spvnky (msg # 1365):

Look on the bright side. The GM spelled out what s/he wanted in advance, so you could make a decision before joining. That's better for everyone than joining and finding out a couple of weeks in that it wasn't what you expected. There's a lot of those games about, too.

In this case a utility worker decided he did not need to follow procedure and find out which under ground lines do what and now over 30,000 people in 2 states are without internet for at least 4 days, maybe longer. Myself being in that number. So hard to surf the net on just my phone.
Seems he cut several feet off the main cable feed for the area. Which makes me wonder why no one thought to set up redundant and differing locations for the internet connections.

Ok so my problems aren't exactly as bad as some on here so I apologuise to those going through tougher times.

I'm finding people quite hard to deal with lately and I don't know why. Can't work out if its me or something else.

I used to find rpol a safe haven with quite pleasant people but feel like I'm butting horns with people here too for no reason other than not being a doormat.

I just got banned from a game just for saying I was leaving it.

This was because it was indicated to me in a really cryptic way that I *may* have broken game rules but no explaination as to how. I re-read rules and still couldn't work it out and so directly asked why.

Driftwood ensued.

So I said I was leaving. Even pointed out I had many other games so was stretched anyway and was (in my opinion) as diplomatic as possible.

No ok, bye. No sorry to see you go. That's fine. I had expected to just click on the game and find myself no longer a player, but a ban? Come on!

There have been other more minor incidents throughout the day, not as bad as that one.

What's got into people?
This message was last edited by the user at 15:35, Tue 16 Apr 2019.

Honestly I have found that people just get offended when you decide a game isn't going to work for you no matter how nice you are about it.  I have only ever had one gm who was nice about things when I left a game (normally I will just back out of a game if I notice that there is a player that I am not going to get along with, rather than waiting for a problem to start).

In the defense of that GM, they may have been burned in the past by having someone who said they were leaving their game cause problems when allowed continued access to said game. Sometimes, the safest way to guarantee there will be no Departing Player Drama is to prevent the departing player from interacting with the rest of the cast.

Yeah. Maybe they had their reasons.

TBH this has been the tip of a very large iceberg.

Lots of little things today have been chipping away at my self esteem.

I'll get over it.

Some people are just weird, and simple manners have been on the decline for decades.

If I want to leave a game, I'll say so. If someone wants to leave my game, I'll thank them for their contribution and give them a week to copy (not remove, thank you - I have game-continuity to maintain) any of their material, in case they want to use their character elsewhere. Even if they've argued with me. They're entitled to their opinion, even if it's wrong! ;)

What annoys me is when players (or GMs) just vanish.

I see a PbP game exactly the same as a FtF game.

If you go to someone's house and game with them, you don't sneak out the door when they're not looking, you thank them for their hospitality, shake hands around the group, and leave with your head high and your manners intact.

And if you're a GM moving to a new town, getting a new job, etc, you don't just stick a For Sale notice on your house for your gaming buddies to find next time they bring their kit round. You call them, thank them for the good times you've shared, and tell them why and when you're leaving.

Why do people become psychopathic morons online? What do a few pleasantries cost, really?

Ive been discussing this issue with a friend. I think as a society we may have all become so connected to the online world that we are basically disconnected from each other. Humanity seems to be loosing its ability to relate or empathise and civility has declined.

That's not the case for everyone, though. Some people are still courteous and understanding.

Part of the issue may be that on the internet, no one can see you. Repercussions are limited. If you’re a jerk in real life, no one will want to be around you. If you’re a jerk on the internet, you can just find another spot to hang out in.

Some of it could be anxiety as well; I have generalized anxiety disorder and sometimes sending and receiving messages is overwhelming because I don’t know what the message says and I’m not sure if I want to know. I’ve ghosted out a couple times (although not after being in the game already, just after expressing interest).
This message was last edited by the user at 09:34, Wed 17 Apr 2019.

I had to drop out of a game a couple days ago because my enthusiasm for it just fell through the floor, for no apparent reason. The group seemed fun, and everyone was helping everyone else with character creation, and the OOC discussion was at a couple hundred posts before the game even started.

I hated having to leave a game with that kind of promise, but I knew I wasn't going to be able to add anything worthwhile to the dynamic/story/what-have-you with where my interest level was. Very frustrating.

To the crew of the Rotten Raven, the very best of luck.

It's hard to admit to yourself that you are not a good fit for a game anymore, but it's for the best.  Don't beat yourself up about it, man.  You did right by the GM and the other players by withdrawing when you realized what was going on with you.

...Assuming you told them you were leaving, of course.

GMs are used to drop outs at the start of a game, it's probably no biggie.

The problem for GMs is not knowing whether a player has left or not - that just wastes their time and everyone else's, while they send out PMs and wait for a response, and hold your place open in case you've had family/work/internet issues.

Those delays and uncertainties spoil the game for everyone.

If anyone is leaving a game, all they need to do is post something like Nowhere Man posted here - it explains their situation, wishes the GM and players well, and makes a clean break that allows the game to continue smoothly without them.

If the GM becomes a jerk over it - well, you've already left the game, what're they gonna do? But by leaving a polite goodbye, you find out whether that GM is a jerk, instead of leaving them with the impression that you are.

I always  ask folks  to let me know when they are going to bail. My games  aren't forever one, they aren't meant to be.

 self respecting gamers should  have the manners  enough to say,"..sorry..not what I thought".. and  then go, so the GM can let the rest of the game know they are gone, and no one's waiting.

 Rookies in my game  have a short leash for  ghosting... my vets  get a lot more  leeway, ebcause they tend to  let us know when RL takes them away.

 No one is getting paid  to play here..or  run a game, for that matter. Simple manners, is  not a bad thing  to ask for.

The situation with Hubby and the two co-workers he's teaching to game (with me as the DM) is more or less at a total standstill.  "Jane" is getting help for her many issues which precludes gaming, and the other co-worker "John" doesn't want to game if she's not there.  We did a board game night one evening, and he canceled the other due to prior commitments.  We haven't actually gamed since... at least January if not December.  I am hopefully going to reconnect with some old friends at a neighborhood party we're hosting next week, and then we're going to see if we can't actually get a game going.

Beyond the erratic scheduling and quiet stubborn refusal to let others into the game, I have difficulty getting anyone to really roleplay at the table.  Hubby is in love with the  mechanics, and while he's not totally indifferent to backstory, he's choosing to run two characters to round out the party, and so can't concentrate on much but the mechanics.  John does try and occasionally succeeds, but when I can get Jane to talk it's mostly about mechanics as well.  I get a teeny bit of roleplay out of her every once in a blue moon, but considering how little we're playing, it's about two times a year I see anything like that from her.

In other news, our sump pump isn't working so our formerly bone-dry basement is a sopping mess due to the excessive rainfall around here and the plumber can't get out here until Monday (it's Friday).  Boo!