V_V
 member, 841 posts
 Remember me as V, just V
 My journey is near an end
Tue 20 Aug 2019
at 02:12
Too Many Expectations
I REALLY do appreciate your two remarks. Shado, your "advice" was fine. :) It shows you care. :) You kept it brief, and caring, not "I know, you should learn from me" but "I went through it too, man. Hard way is the ONLY way". All that's fine.

No, I know we'll be friends, Anne and I, for many years. Money corrupts. It won't corrupt me. Friendship is more important than money. Every time. Hands down. I don't have to choose though. THAT is not the choice I'm faced with. I'm faced with her parents and co-workers, being pymgies in her ear encouraging her to spend like they (THEY are upper middle class) WE can't do that. The only reason Anne could, is she had wad of money and even went into debt. She is my friend though. Anne does NOT use me. I did enable her. It's mostly her fault, cold, but true. I won't let her starve, I won't let her miss work, but yes...

Brianna! I'm always glad to see your messages. Yes, she knows how mad I am. I am very caring, but very loud. I yell. Both my parents' and Anne's did that. My father hit me, her father beat her. My father didn't have the energy to fight for a day, her father is a freaking psychopath, taking fights to point of not sleeping and eating. I say this because when I yell it triggers her to just say anything to get the noise to stop. I've learned to make my reaction brief, but it makes it all the more intense. Unlike our parents', my anger never translates to physical. Worst is when I slammed down my hand ona table...my hand hurt! Table was fine...well...it was before the fire...

Anyway, yeah, I got off track...for obvious reasons. Yeah *whew* She's anbudantly aware of my feeling. I'm quite transparent, in fact uncomfortably so, with even strangers. All my friends know what I think, because I'm a staunch believer in communication. But she is still learning how to cope with trouble, and I am trying to cope with living on my own. It's very far from ideal.

No more giving her money though. No idea how she'll get above 0 in bank account. And the penalties will make sure it's even harder. I have no doubt when she gets paid next, a few hundred, she'll still be negative. :/ Not my problem though. It's house on fire, and beyond putting more precious water on.

Anyway, I wanted to reply here, because I really needed to support. Anne is home early. Apparently class starts NEXT week. She has a legitimate problem with the loan office, and NOT the school. The big wigs, the big guns are having a joint meeting, even one that isn't local is skyping in to join the conference, so they can show Anne is worth having chance to persue school. Why THEY did nothing in MAy, June and July. Flip if I know. Anne did meet with them though. This time I know! They had, apparently, had donation fund going for our fire, and Anne got $200. Which she immediately gave to me. If she wasn't exhorbantly overdrafted, I'd have put that in her account, afterall I'm paying for both our electricity unless she can contribute.

Thank you both, and anyone else, for giving me something to reply to. Mvoing forward with Anne, is going to require being less than compassionate, but I enjoy our time to game and chat. I like HER. I hate her spending habits. Money ruins relationships. I'm not going to continue to act like we're a couple. She'll get the idea, if my words fell on deaf ears, but the fact it's on her now. There's nothing she can do, but wait for her loan, and suffer from not heeding curbing her habits. I feel alittle sorry for her, but getting the $200, was a godsend. Now I can make it until next month, and not starve myself! NExt month I'm giving Anne a shoestring budget (what I was left with!) and she'll have to budget that. No one deserves to go hungry. I wouldn't wish that on a villain. She needs gas in the car. That's it though. That's literally it. If she bleeds, she'll have to budget for the bandage. :/.

I'm done with this vent now, and spending time, with Anne enjoying time, having finally seen some fruit of her labor be born. So I'll read the rmail tonight, after she goes to sleep. I thought I'd be stranded for many more hours, but I'm going to go out, get a cheap drink, buy some food and relax. I really appreciate the concern. It's helped immensely. :)
Brianna
 member, 2196 posts
Tue 20 Aug 2019
at 23:45
Too Many Expectations
In reply to V_V (msg # 1429):

Good luck and hang tough!  If you need to go that far, remember you can buy the groceries, and take her car to put the gas in, rather than give her money.
tibiotarsus
 member, 62 posts
 Hopepunk with a shovel
Wed 21 Aug 2019
at 07:34
Too Many Expectations
Chiming in just to say that for people who have trouble conceptualising money beyond a binary of have money(infinite spending!)/no money, giving them money in cash is the most effective way to make them understand what they're spending. Invisible money flows like water, handing over your last fiver, not so much. Good luck!
GreenTongue
 member, 878 posts
 Game Archaeologist
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 00:31
Re: Too Many Expectations
Brianna:
In reply to V_V (msg # 1429):

Good luck and hang tough!  If you need to go that far, remember you can buy the groceries, and take her car to put the gas in, rather than give her money.

This.
When someone is having problems controlling their finances, giving them more money is just enabling. Buying what is _needed_ is the best way to help. If they need more, they need to make the hard choice.
Shannara
 moderator, 3835 posts
 Keep calm, drink more
 COFFEE!!!!
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 00:49
Re: Too Many Expectations
tibiotarsus:
Chiming in just to say that for people who have trouble conceptualising money beyond a binary of have money(infinite spending!)/no money, giving them money in cash is the most effective way to make them understand what they're spending. Invisible money flows like water, handing over your last fiver, not so much. Good luck!



The problem creeps in when their last fiver is not their last fiver, because all the people who keep giving them money will just give them more.

What some people learn when people keep rescuing them from the consequences of making mistakes is that there ARE no consequences ... until they run out of friends.

This message was last edited by the user at 01:08, Fri 23 Aug.

Aleph Null
 member, 19 posts
 I have my PhD
 In Wumbology
Sat 24 Aug 2019
at 20:40
Have you had a GM like this?
So I was going to join a game on a virtual tabletop site, and it seemed great -- a high level AD&D 2e game is a rarity, so I thought I'd try it out. The GM says "write me a 12 page backstory, and make sure your sheet is complete, as long as you do that you can play whatever you want." I spend 6-ish hours making the best backstory I can, completing every detail in the sheet. But I made one mistake: I wrote "good" instead of "neutral good" in the alignment box. Seeing this, the GM's response was "make a different character." Didn't even look at the rest of the sheet or the 12-page backstory I wrote. Oh, and the kicker -- the other players didn't have a single word of backstory on their characters.
I ask the guy, "Why can't I just revise it to meet your expectations which were never listed in the first place?"
His response is to kick me from the game without a word.
Gosh, I really hate some internet communities.
Silverlock
 member, 103 posts
Sat 24 Aug 2019
at 22:00
Have you had a GM like this?
In reply to Aleph Null (msg # 1434):

I'm sorry you had this happen.  I tried a couple of times to get into rpgs, and whenever I'm required to write a novelette for a backstory, and do 'test posts' it always ends poorly for me.  I've also had games where I got accepted, waited weeks for a single post to the point where I would check in every few days or so, then when I didn't respond to the GM's post within 12 hours, the GM had my PC killed.   Another notable instance was the GM accepting my PC, failing to post for me, and when I submitted another PC I got a post that actually had my first PC as an NPC for my new PC to meet....talk about lazy.  Running a game should not be a power trip where the GM aims to cause as much trouble as possible for people, it should be a set of challenges that the players try to surmount in order to reach a certain goal.   Characters develop over time, and that's more interesting than having a document backstory with a lot of guessing and gloss.   I understand your disappointment, you are not alone.

Essentially, that was a game you didn't want to be in, in the first place.  I hope you find a good one and can enjoy it.  I don't have any advice on how to do that though.
aguy777
 member, 324 posts
 Join Date:
 Thu, 28 Nov, 2013
Sat 24 Aug 2019
at 22:25
Re: Have you had a GM like this?
Aleph Null:
The GM says "write me a 12 page backstory

A 12 page backstory? I would've backed out then and there! Requesting a brief character backstory is fine and expected, but a short novel is kinda ridiculous in my opinion.

If the GM kicked you for your question, be glad you were kicked. That game isn't the type you want to be in. Sorry you had to put up with that, but at least now you're free to find a better, more reasonable, game.
ShadoPrism
 member, 1267 posts
 OCGD-Obsessive-Compulsive
 Gamer-Disorder
Sun 25 Aug 2019
at 03:08
Have you had a GM like this?
In reply to Aleph Null (msg # 1434):

Sounded like that GM was power tripping - kind of GM that it is just better to avoid as they are not mentally mature enough to run a game. Or much of anything else.
The massive back story request tends to come from such GMs in my experience - it's a huge red flag. So now you know better.
Brianna
 member, 2197 posts
Sun 25 Aug 2019
at 06:41
Have you had a GM like this?
In reply to Aleph Null (msg # 1434):

12 page backstory??  I would have been out of there!  !2 page history is what you get after you play the character for months!
Isida KepTukari
 member, 296 posts
 Elegant! Arrogant! Smart!
Sun 25 Aug 2019
at 07:13
You can lead an adventuring group to the tavern...
Welp, at this point I've dropped plot breadcrumbs, plot pebbles, plot bricks, and plot anvils.  I debated applying a clue-by-four to the narrative but decided it wasn't worth it.  I couldn't make the plot-bait more tempting than if I covered it with glitter and sparkles.  If they want to wander off into Nowheresville, I will just have to make up a new adventure in Nowheresville...  *sigh*

This message was last edited by the user at 09:33, Sun 25 Aug.

tibiotarsus
 member, 63 posts
 Hopepunk with a shovel
Sun 25 Aug 2019
at 09:11
You can lead an adventuring group to the tavern...
...have the key to the Nowhereville situation kidnapped by the forces of your original intended campaign? It sounds like you need to be subtle, because your players have a suspicion they can't explore once they get on well-marked highway Plot This Way...still, maybe do a bit of sounding out as to what they want, as they might not have been into the main plot anyway. Alternatively, just let 'em run off over there and let the consequences of whatever they ignored play out, it'll be great!

@Shannara - Aye, I know that all too well, but there was mention of giving the friend a budget in there, and if it's in the bank account it'll just evaporate like a puff of steam, was all I meant. Making money visible has a strong psychological effect - I've heard of a documentary where a family began pulling themselves out of chronic debt after being instructed to put what money they had (coins and whatever notes friends lent) into clear glass jars, and I've seen it work on two previous over-spenders with that binary all/none concept of money myself.
seraphmoon
 member, 98 posts
 "Plays well with others."
 Talks lots. Reads more.
Sun 25 Aug 2019
at 18:10
You can lead an adventuring group to the tavern...
In reply to Isida KepTukari (msg # 1439):

Is the plot you've dropped hints for location-specific, or can you adapt it to taking place in Nowheresville? Or is it more of a "I need to hire a group to rescue the kidnapped prince! / We're not interested in rescuing kidnapped princes." sort of situation?
Isida KepTukari
 member, 297 posts
 Elegant! Arrogant! Smart!
Mon 26 Aug 2019
at 05:43
You can lead an adventuring group to the tavern...
They've already got the first part of the plot well in hand, I was just trying to get them some answers to many of their questions in a timely fashion (play by post being what it is, too much time passes and people can forget why they were in an area in the first place). But if they don't want to check out where I was dropping clues (which would be the very logical place to search for answers), I'll just move maligned plot elsewhere in the world...

This message was last edited by the user at 05:44, Mon 26 Aug.

NowhereMan
 member, 329 posts
Thu 29 Aug 2019
at 10:07
You can lead an adventuring group to the tavern...
In reply to Isida KepTukari (msg # 1442):

As the founder and primary resident of Nowheresville, I'd appreciate a bit of warning before you drop any wandering murderhobos into my neck of the woods, Isida.
ShadoPrism
 member, 1269 posts
 OCGD-Obsessive-Compulsive
 Gamer-Disorder
Fri 30 Aug 2019
at 03:49
You can lead an adventuring group to the tavern...
In reply to NowhereMan (msg # 1443):

Your neck of the woods is roughtly the size of Russia, so you need not worry to much about the murder hobo's finding you.
NowhereMan
 member, 332 posts
Fri 30 Aug 2019
at 04:26
You can lead an adventuring group to the tavern...
Oh, like that's ever stopped a murderhobo. If it was deemed plot-important that it stay alive, they'd find and kill the one single living bacteria on Mars, and they'd do it within about twelve minutes.
Kessa
 member, 598 posts
 Dark Army:
 Out to Lunch
Mon 9 Sep 2019
at 21:45
Them good ole days....
I hate, hate, hate the way job applications are processed these days. Everything is snipped down into tiny pieces, shoved through a filter program, and then a few lucky apps get spat out to hiring managers if they happen to have a few random key words tensed just so.

Not only does it take forever to reformat, or adjust a resume because the filter doesn't know how to handle tenses or synonyms, but even if you have them, if the search parameters aren't set up correctly, it might not even matter. Or, even better... the sites that do this PLUS ask you to retype the entire resume. Yes, cut and paste is a thing, but you still have to go back over it again to make sure it looks good and doesn't contain a bunch of '&&;' errors and it's usually not just a single cut/ paste, but a hundred individual boxes that, yes, I can probably retype faster than copy/ pasting anyway. And let's not forget software and webpage errors that are there to conveniently lock you out half-way through an application, or buttons that don't work like they're supposed to.

Yes, it's beautiful to see hundreds of resumes being submitted for a job in the internet, but a lot of the bad ones get shot through because of search terms and a lot of the good ones never even make it to being printed for an initial human glance. Not only does it significantly extend my time working on every individual resume, but I honestly believe it wastes hiring employees time and often provides sub-par applicants.

Why can't I just walk into a place, smile at someone, and hand them a piece of paper? I have literally never been turned down for a job I've applied to that way. </rant>
GreenTongue
 member, 879 posts
 Game Archaeologist
Tue 10 Sep 2019
at 10:39
Them good ole days....
In reply to Kessa (msg # 1446):

As there is usually far more people wanting a job than there are openings, the goal is to reduce the number of applicants that the hiring person has to look at.
These filter programs work well at doing that.

I'm not sure the qualification actually matter, as most new hires have to be trained anyway.
Kessa
 member, 599 posts
 Dark Army:
 Out to Lunch
Tue 10 Sep 2019
at 18:31
Re: Them good ole days....
Yes, the filters definitely do cut down the pool, the way they do so is where my frustrations lie. Often having to toss in key terms in the verbatim style of the listing makes resumes sound worse than they would normally and horribly repetitive. I don't have an issue with trying to implement a filtering system, but some of these are so bad I almost feel like they do more harm than good.

GreenTongue:
In reply to Kessa (msg # 1446):

I'm not sure the qualification actually matter, as most new hires have to be trained anyway.

I have to disagree here. If this is the case, why not just hire the first person who applies? Qualifications definitely matter. That's the whole point of taking multiple applicants, to find the one who is most qualified, or otherwise the best fit. I could theoretically have no experience with home appraisal, but toss in a an application because I like the salary being offered, figuring I'll figure out the basics later when other people have been doing it for years and don't need to take extra time to figure out anything.
GreenTongue
 member, 880 posts
 Game Archaeologist
Tue 10 Sep 2019
at 19:10
Re: Them good ole days....
In reply to Kessa (msg # 1448):

I guess I just have a sour taste because I once made the mistake of taking off on my lunch break to go to an interview for basically the job I was already doing that they were going to make permanent and better paid.
Because it was inter-company and I was on my lunch break I didn't take time to "Dress the part".

A total nub that I had to train got the job.

Found out that I didn't have the right image for the job because I was wearing my work clothes to the interview.

So, yeah, qualifications are not the deciding factor surprisingly often.
ShadoPrism
 member, 1270 posts
 OCGD-Obsessive-Compulsive
 Gamer-Disorder
Tue 10 Sep 2019
at 21:00
Re: Them good ole days....
In reply to Kessa (msg # 1448):

Years ago, before the internet stuff - I kept running in to the problem of 'need x amount of experience' for a job. One of my favorites on that for pure stupid was a company wanting 10 years experience in a field that had only been around 5 years. Litterally did not exist prior to that time cause the technology did not exist. I had at that time 3 years experience in that field - could not get the HR people to understand why they could not get someone with as much experience as they wanted.
Now days, most every job is apply online and hope someone see's it and has enough brains to actually check a resume - seen to many people with fake online resume's get jobs they are so not qualified for just cause they know how to work the system.
BFink
 member, 61 posts
Wed 11 Sep 2019
at 09:49
Re: Them good ole days....
In reply to ShadoPrism (msg # 1450):

Yup, these days knowing how to properly (and successfully) apply for jobs appears to be a separate qualification. At the same time almost everyone working in HR is so dumb that my mind cannot comprehend it.
Yaztromo
 supporter, 289 posts
Wed 11 Sep 2019
at 11:52
Re: Them good ole days....
There is also another issue creeping up majestically, i.e. the compulsive appliers that do apply to literally any job posting on internet (obviously without even reading the job requests), just because they don't have to pay for a stamp for each application. This is spamming massively the tools, that show often hundreds of applications from people that has nothing to do with that job opening.
Having to put a stamp on the envelope of each application used to be a good enough filter.
praguepride
 member, 1506 posts
 "Hugs for the Hugs God!"
 - Warhammer Fluffy-K
Fri 13 Sep 2019
at 22:32
Re: Them good ole days....
A buddy of mine quit is job to make a board game. I wanted to try and support him so I demoed it and came back with a ton of feedback. Now granted it is pre-alpha but I had some basic tips like increase the font size on the cards because currently his cards used tiny font and graphics so the majority of the card was blank. I then explained some parts of the rules that were either confusing or perhaps in the rulebook should be reordered.

Anyway I wrote him paragraphs of in depth feedback.

His response was basically a bullet-by-bullet response basically saying that it's not wrong. Now not in a constructive way like "The reason X is here is because I tried it over here and it made things worse so this is the result of other feedback" but instead it was like "Well its pre-alpha so it doesn't matter" or "Well other people didn't mind it that way"

Like you do you dood but that's the last bit of feedback I'm giving you.