Boogs
 member, 20 posts
 I do boogie consistently.
 Consistently boogie I do.
Thu 11 Feb 2021
at 19:53
Skin in the Game
In reply to ShadoPrism (msg # 1765):

I actually have to say that's not what you're doing at all. Like Piestar said, communication is key. That fact that you're saying something at least lets not just the DM but the players know what's going on.

And Piestar, I agree that a part of the DM's responsibility is to protect their baby, but being that it is also collaborative by design, I'm finding that most DMs I've had the opportunity to write/game with really do try to be accommodating, and they can only work with so much.

I wouldn't expect anyone to constantly post a FB style update, and I'm not even talking about players ghosting (that is much more reasonable). I mean specifically those players that keep logging in with no info to the DM, then can't be bothered to respond to PMs or rMail (though in that feature's defense I've missed it even with the notification on the bottom.)
Piestar
 member, 830 posts
 once upon a time...
 ...there was a little pie
Thu 11 Feb 2021
at 20:02
Skin in the Game
Oh that's a banning right there though. Logging in, but ignoring attempts to communicate? That's not acceptable.

That said, it is important to realize that if I post in that characters name (which I do, though I put in the post it is from me) that RPoL does show that the character has posted.
NowhereMan
 member, 417 posts
Thu 11 Feb 2021
at 21:41
Skin in the Game
To be fair to the theoretical player in-question, there are some mobile browsers that reload tabs regularly, even if you're not viewing them, which could lead to false positives. I know I've shown up as having logged in while on a hiatus before.
ladysharlyne
 subscriber, 3011 posts
 Member before Oct 2005
 The glass is half full
Fri 12 Feb 2021
at 17:19
Re: It's a waste of time...
Hiya

My peeve is that you have a slow to moderate paced game because we all have real lives,  but a player makes a post then the game is hung up until they post again and so as the PGM I check if they have looked in, I have an away and returning thread, I have in my rules to keep in touch, do not look in without saying something and after several of the looking ins and not verbal contact I delete them from the game.  We all have real lives, much happens with family, health, work, etc and I get that but a word as to why not posting is expected.  Yet it is the inevitable some just ghost the game, some are just gone.  I always try PMs and Rmail to reach players before deleting, but Ghosting is just not on and it is a bye-bye as my rules even say.  Sheesh some people could learn some posting playing manners/etiquette but some never will, some do not care.
Dream Sequence
 member, 71 posts
 Certainly the loveliest,
 most civilized of us all
Sat 13 Feb 2021
at 16:24
Re: It's a waste of time...
I'm going to time how long it takes me to type the following:

quote:
Hey guys, I'm super swamped here, please don't be alarmed by a few days of no posting.

Nine seconds.  And I'm not a very fast typer.

Not one person on RPoL is too busy to type that.  Literally zero.  There may in theory be humans on planet Earth who are too busy to spare nine seconds from their day, but neither you nor anyone in any of your games nor anyone you've ever met in person are one of them.
NowhereMan
 member, 418 posts
Sat 13 Feb 2021
at 16:28
Re: It's a waste of time...
Nine seconds that requires a computer and an Internet connection, things that may or may not be available to a particular player at a particular time.

For instance, back on a previous ISP, we would have Internet outages for a week at a time. Or, perhaps, a player's only computer crashes, and it takes them a while to repair it. They're both busy, and incapable of posting. Nine seconds or not.
Piestar
 member, 836 posts
 once upon a time...
 ...there was a little pie
Sat 13 Feb 2021
at 16:30
Re: It's a waste of time...
In reply to NowhereMan (msg # 1772):

You have to take in to account though that the peeve in question refers to people who have the time and resources to peek at the game, without the wherewithal to spend that nine seconds.
NowhereMan
 member, 419 posts
Sat 13 Feb 2021
at 16:38
Re: It's a waste of time...
"Not one person on RPoL is too busy to type that.  Literally zero." was the line I was responding to. That includes your original people, and everyone else.
Piestar
 member, 837 posts
 once upon a time...
 ...there was a little pie
Sat 13 Feb 2021
at 16:51
Re: It's a waste of time...
In reply to NowhereMan (msg # 1774):

Not gonna fight, just explaining the position.
Dream Sequence
 member, 72 posts
 Certainly the loveliest,
 most civilized of us all
Sat 13 Feb 2021
at 16:57
Re: It's a waste of time...
"Too busy" refers only to people who claim to have been "too busy."  Not to people who claim to have had connection problems or medical complications or nervous breakdowns or anything else.
Evil Empryss
 supporter, 1574 posts
 Insert witty and
 appropriate quote here
Sat 13 Feb 2021
at 20:14
Re: It's a waste of time...
How about this take:

Sometimes it isn't about having the time or the connectivity or other resources. Sometimes it's about not having the mental health to be able to face the fact that you ghosted, disappointing people who were counting on you. Knowing that you might be facing harsh criticisms like "how hard would it have been to just take nine seconds let us know you weren't going to be around for a while?"

Real fruiting hard sometimes.

And sometimes you're hoping that the problems you're having will only last a day, or a week, and the next thing you realize as you come up out of your funk six very real months have passed without a word from you to the people in your game. And trying to explain can be more embarrassing than you can deal with, especially if you hardly know the people in the game. Even worse, you might get someone who thinks mental illness isn't real and lashes out at you for your "lame excuse". So you don't try.

You don't know what's going on in other people's lives. Some people are jerks and bail for no reason and never explain themselves, yeah, but some people have a harder time of it than that. Unless you know for sure, please try not to judge too harshly.
ShadoPrism
 member, 1372 posts
 OCGD-Obsessive-Compulsive
 Gamer-Disorder
Sat 13 Feb 2021
at 23:48
Re: It's a waste of time...
I am so sick of ppl who cheat or mess with others in MMO's. Modders and hackers who randomly change the rules for thier own entertainment really peeve me off. GTAO is really bad about that sort of Troll like persons and nothing the company does gets them to leave. Even law suits don't work (I keep up with the news feeds and know they are actively suing several modding companies, not that it does any good.)
Piestar
 member, 838 posts
 once upon a time...
 ...there was a little pie
Sat 13 Feb 2021
at 23:57
Re: It's a waste of time...
In reply to ShadoPrism (msg # 1778):

Gad yes, those kind of people have no class. Where is the pride in success, if you have to cheat to get there. People like that ruin a game...
praguepride
 member, 1769 posts
 "Hugs for the Hugs God!"
 - Warhammer Fluffy-K
Thu 18 Feb 2021
at 22:22
Re: It's a waste of time...
This isn't so much a problem as it is a curiousity that I cannot keep contained. A game of mine has the players seemingly accidentally bypassing 75% of the content. Like they enter a room with four doors and they don't just immediately pick the right door, but they never circle back to check the other doors out.

It isn't a problem for me but it is going to be a problem for them because they are beelining straight to the final boss without picking up the treasure and XP that they should have at this point.

I'm worried that when they meet the final boss and get splattered that they're going to be upset at how difficult it was. Or worse that they get lucky and beat the final boss and leave and never come back thus bypassing tons of cool encounters. I mean there was supposed to be an NPC that joins them to help them fight the final boss that they're likely to never even encounter, let alone complete her cool side story.

I'm not upset that they're bypassing encounters, I'm upset that they might think I'm being stingy or not doing proper level design when they finally reach encounters they can't outluck or outsmart and the game mechanics crunches them for speedrunning the megadungeon.
Piestar
 member, 840 posts
 once upon a time...
 ...there was a little pie
Thu 18 Feb 2021
at 22:34
Re: It's a waste of time...
In reply to praguepride (msg # 1780):

That is odd, as my characters tend to be annoyingly completionist, I really like to check out every nook and cranny if the game allows.

That said, a lot depends on how far you are will or able to adjust things. Tough if it is a module of course, but it should always be possible to push the boss further away and put more things between them and him to give them the oomph they need to succeed.

If they are still heading towards the big boss, things could be worse, too many stories where the party wanders aimlessly away from the plot.
jkeogh
 member, 100 posts
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 01:48
Constantly the victim lol
In reply to praguepride (msg # 1780):

What a tough balance. On the one hand your players are active and pursuing the common goal and not getting bogged down in the “weeds” of the dungeon. But on the other hand getting bogged down would help them in the long run.

A similar thing has been discussed on the Glass Cannon Podcast lately as they have skipped massive amounts of encounters and are likely about to get owned by the final boss of the entire adventure path.
SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 370 posts
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 01:56
Constantly the victim lol
Alternatively, there's always the possibility of the encounters happening in the "proper" order, from your point of view, regardless of what order they open doors in...

Sometimes it's best to let the characters feel like they have license, not necessarily give them completely free rein with it.
NowhereMan
 member, 420 posts
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 02:48
Constantly the victim lol
In reply to SunRuanEr (msg # 1783):

I couldn't disagree more. If the players don't have meaningful choices, don't pretend there's a choice at all.
SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 371 posts
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 03:57
Constantly the victim lol
I would normally agree, NowhereMan, but if the issue at play is 'The players chose to go through X encounters in the wrong order, and they might be screwed and wind up angry at their GM because they did so', then I'd counter that the onus is on the GM to make sure the encounters happen in the right order so that the game itself doesn't fall apart.

If the GM is concerned about the outcome being an adverse one, as it clearly seems like it might be.
Piestar
 member, 841 posts
 once upon a time...
 ...there was a little pie
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 04:11
Constantly the victim lol
In reply to NowhereMan (msg # 1784):

So what you say saying is, when we are playing make believe, we shouldn't pretend?
NowhereMan
 member, 421 posts
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 04:52
Constantly the victim lol
@SunRuanEr: In such a situation, I think it would be better for the GM to have a way for their players to understand that they are nearing the "boss" encounter and allow them to backtrack if they choose to do so. Or even the OOC "hey, you realize that by skipping large sections of the dungeon, you're missing out on loot and experience you might need later".

Taking away player agency through the quantum ogre just means that the players will continue doing what they were doing already, and will lead to you having the exact same problem in the future.

@Piestar: Talk about a bad faith argument. But I'll indulge you anyway. There is a difference between playing pretend and meta-game pretending. You wouldn't call it "playing pretend" if one of your players was "pretending" that every roll they made was a natural 20. Making both Door A and Door B lead to Encounter C turns a dungeon exploration adventure into a dungeon railroad theme park ride, which isn't the same thing at all.
Piestar
 member, 842 posts
 once upon a time...
 ...there was a little pie
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 05:01
Constantly the victim lol
In reply to NowhereMan (msg # 1787):

It wasn't an argument, it was a joke.

That said, ever ridden a roller-coaster? The path is all laid out, but the illusion of risk is sufficient to make it a very popular ride. Same is true with movies and books.

As long as the players are having fun, I an content, and in my experience having meaningful choices has never been a factor in how much fun they were having. If anything, it often works in the opposite direction.
NowhereMan
 member, 422 posts
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 05:09
Constantly the victim lol
My apologies, I should have known.

Anyway, I don't disagree. However, the difference with a roller coaster is that you know you're on one. I personally don't mind the odd railroady adventure path game, as it allows me to switch off the old thinker and hit stuff with a stick for a while. But, I want to know that's what I'm in for. Player agency is important, both in the game and the metagame. If player agency is to be suspended, the player should have a say in it. You gotta let them choose whether or not to get on the roller coaster.
Zag24
 supporter, 677 posts
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 14:31
Skin in the Game
In reply to praguepride (msg # 1780):

Oh!  I hope that's not the game I'm in.  :-)  (Hardly.  Not only am I pushing for completionism, but we are hardly pushing our way through the place quickly.)

There are a hundred ways to channel the PCs without actually seeming to do so.
* You can make the final boss behind a door that needs keys that can only be obtained in the different places you want them to go first (i.e. the video game approach).  This makes it more obvious, but it's such an established trope that nobody is likely to be offended.
* You can make the final boss be behind a secret door that they fail to notice on the first pass through ...
* or that only your NPC knows how to open ...
* or only the NPC has the key for.
* or it's actually a trek to find the final boss, that they wouldn't even know to go on until meeting the NPC and hearing their story.
* You can change the map around so that whichever way they choose to go is the one that leads to the 'first' encounter.  This is tricky and not likely to be noticed, but it feels wrong to me, somehow (not that I haven't done it).

This message was last edited by the user at 14:33, Fri 19 Feb.

praguepride
 member, 1770 posts
 "Hugs for the Hugs God!"
 - Warhammer Fluffy-K
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 22:29
Skin in the Game
The beautiful thing about running about a dozen games on RPOL and a couple of games offline is that as long as I am vague and change the set dressings I can talk about my games without anyone ever knowing the truth :D