RolePlay onLine RPoL Logo

, welcome to Community Chat

06:38, 29th March 2024 (GMT+0)

Vents with allowed responses - 3.

Posted by GamerHandle
NowhereMan
member, 421 posts
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 04:52
  • msg #1787

Constantly the victim lol

@SunRuanEr: In such a situation, I think it would be better for the GM to have a way for their players to understand that they are nearing the "boss" encounter and allow them to backtrack if they choose to do so. Or even the OOC "hey, you realize that by skipping large sections of the dungeon, you're missing out on loot and experience you might need later".

Taking away player agency through the quantum ogre just means that the players will continue doing what they were doing already, and will lead to you having the exact same problem in the future.

@Piestar: Talk about a bad faith argument. But I'll indulge you anyway. There is a difference between playing pretend and meta-game pretending. You wouldn't call it "playing pretend" if one of your players was "pretending" that every roll they made was a natural 20. Making both Door A and Door B lead to Encounter C turns a dungeon exploration adventure into a dungeon railroad theme park ride, which isn't the same thing at all.
Piestar
member, 842 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 05:01
  • msg #1788

Constantly the victim lol

In reply to NowhereMan (msg # 1787):

It wasn't an argument, it was a joke.

That said, ever ridden a roller-coaster? The path is all laid out, but the illusion of risk is sufficient to make it a very popular ride. Same is true with movies and books.

As long as the players are having fun, I an content, and in my experience having meaningful choices has never been a factor in how much fun they were having. If anything, it often works in the opposite direction.
NowhereMan
member, 422 posts
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 05:09
  • msg #1789

Constantly the victim lol

My apologies, I should have known.

Anyway, I don't disagree. However, the difference with a roller coaster is that you know you're on one. I personally don't mind the odd railroady adventure path game, as it allows me to switch off the old thinker and hit stuff with a stick for a while. But, I want to know that's what I'm in for. Player agency is important, both in the game and the metagame. If player agency is to be suspended, the player should have a say in it. You gotta let them choose whether or not to get on the roller coaster.
Zag24
supporter, 677 posts
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 14:31
  • msg #1790

Skin in the Game

In reply to praguepride (msg # 1780):

Oh!  I hope that's not the game I'm in.  :-)  (Hardly.  Not only am I pushing for completionism, but we are hardly pushing our way through the place quickly.)

There are a hundred ways to channel the PCs without actually seeming to do so.
* You can make the final boss behind a door that needs keys that can only be obtained in the different places you want them to go first (i.e. the video game approach).  This makes it more obvious, but it's such an established trope that nobody is likely to be offended.
* You can make the final boss be behind a secret door that they fail to notice on the first pass through ...
* or that only your NPC knows how to open ...
* or only the NPC has the key for.
* or it's actually a trek to find the final boss, that they wouldn't even know to go on until meeting the NPC and hearing their story.
* You can change the map around so that whichever way they choose to go is the one that leads to the 'first' encounter.  This is tricky and not likely to be noticed, but it feels wrong to me, somehow (not that I haven't done it).
This message was last edited by the user at 14:33, Fri 19 Feb 2021.
praguepride
member, 1770 posts
"Hugs for the Hugs God!"
- Warhammer Fluffy-K
Fri 19 Feb 2021
at 22:29
  • msg #1791

Skin in the Game

The beautiful thing about running about a dozen games on RPOL and a couple of games offline is that as long as I am vague and change the set dressings I can talk about my games without anyone ever knowing the truth :D
Bastian
member, 46 posts
Thu 25 Mar 2021
at 00:32
  • msg #1792

Skin in the Game

I really like my players. One always takes notes, the other one takes care of initiative, the third is the life of the party, the fourth is a veteran and a great role player but then there is number five...
Great guy, likes to play... as long as everything is about his character and his story/quest. His character quirks are all anti social so he usually doesn't open his mouth or throws one liners into the room. We've played for over 8 months together and he still has troubles figuring out how to attack, how his characters work and what they can do, how often they can do it.
And then he also has his cellphone in his hand almost all the time.

We made a "No cellphones at the table" rule which seems to work till now.
We're playing a main campaign and a west marches style game (Another player DMs the main campaign) and I've already sat down with him, telling him to make more social characters, make someone that works with the group and not abandons the others at the beginning of the battle. (He wanted to switch characters)
I also sat down with him and showed him what dice to roll and how to add his proficiency to his attacks... we practice for 30 minutes, he does well, the next game he again has to check how to roll for his attacks.

And yes, he usually plays melee fighters.
praguepride
member, 1777 posts
"Hugs for the Hugs God!"
- Warhammer Fluffy-K
Thu 25 Mar 2021
at 03:07
  • msg #1793

Skin in the Game

Maybe he doesnt really want to play? Peer pressure has led to many an unenthusiastic player.
Zag24
supporter, 682 posts
Thu 25 Mar 2021
at 14:17
  • msg #1794

Skin in the Game

In reply to Bastian (msg # 1792):

You've really bent over backwards, IMHO, to hold a private session with him to go over what to roll when.  When doing that, did you get the sense that he was trying to learn, or just tolerating you?  If the former, then it sounds as if he does want to play, but has a learning disability of some sort.

You might try a different way to identify dice, which could help.  That is, rather than telling him "use a d20 to attack," tell him "use the red die to attack," etc.  You'll have to put together a set of dice for him that stays consistent, but that is pretty easy.  If he has trouble recognizing between types of dice, then it would explain him succeeding during your private tutorial and then failing later -- he was recognizing dice according to some criteria that you didn't realize, and they've changed in a way that seems irrelevant to you but confuses him.
praguepride
member, 1778 posts
"Hugs for the Hugs God!"
- Warhammer Fluffy-K
Thu 25 Mar 2021
at 15:37
  • msg #1795

Skin in the Game

If he really does want to play perhaps a learning disability is on the table. Depending on what system perhaps cue cards or a cheat sheet would be helpful. Think of it like a boardgame where for new players you have the card that says

"If you want to do X, take steps A, B and C
If you want to do Y, take steps D, E, and F"

etc. etc.

It might be easy and intuitive for you and if it is d20 it might be that simple but some people have trouble with the remembering all the numbers in their head. Having a card that says

"Attack: Roll red die, add 5 to result.
Will Save: Roll red die, add 3 to result.
Fortitude Save: Roll red die, add 6 to result.
Reflex Save: roll red die, add 4 to result.

Might really help get him back in the game. Also some games have mobile apps that can help streamline and simplify your maths. For example some apps you plug in your stats and you can just click "Roll longsword" and it RNG's a number and automatically adds the bonuses.
praguepride
member, 1782 posts
"Hugs for the Hugs God!"
- Warhammer Fluffy-K
Fri 26 Mar 2021
at 05:51
  • msg #1796

Skin in the Game

Why is it that there are like 3 vents threads that are always at the top of the front page but the "only positive stuff" gets constantly buried?

BOO! BOO ON ALL YOU COMPLAINERS!!!!

My mother-in-law was like that. I would get home from work and she would be lying in wait to ambush me to complain about how life is terrible and her job is terrible and her work is terrible and blah blah blah and I would be like "DAMMIT! LET ME SIT DOWN AND ENJOY MY TIME AWAY FROM WORK!"

Just so much negativity. It was like her negativity was biological and compelled to breed. Like she couldn't go to bed unless she had ruined my day by talking my ear off about how bad her day was.

Pro tip, never invite your mother in law to live with you, no matter how homeless she is. You think you're that good of a person, but you're not. You're just going to end up considering divorce attorneys because it would be easier to get rid of your marriage than your live-in mother-in-law.

The only plus side is that I have about 20 minutes of material if I ever do stand up.
NowhereMan
member, 428 posts
Fri 26 Mar 2021
at 07:27
  • msg #1797

Skin in the Game

You know, you count for a full fifth of the posts on the newest page of this thread, buddy. ;) I say this as the second fifth.

Your story reminds me of when my grandmother lived with us in the last days of her life, after being kicked out of every assisted-living facility and apartment complex we could find due to her wildly antisocial and actively malicious behavior. That was... uh... "fun".
Isida KepTukari
member, 378 posts
Elegant! Arrogant! Smart!
Mon 29 Mar 2021
at 04:24
  • msg #1798

Skin in the Game

For some folk, complaining is their pleasure, they like nothing else than complaining and making other folks miserable.
GreenTongue
member, 950 posts
Game Archaeologist
Mon 29 Mar 2021
at 16:14
  • msg #1799

Skin in the Game

Like the "Nail in the Forehead" video.
Your task is to sympathize.
ladysharlyne
subscriber, 3055 posts
Member before Oct 2005
THE GLASS IS HALF FULL
Tue 30 Mar 2021
at 16:46
  • msg #1800

Re: It's a waste of time...

So does this mean that negative is stronger than positive?  There are fewer to praise and being an empathic people we roleplayers are we are more ready to agree and help try to resolve problems.  I agree we need more good things posted in life.  Look on the brighter side of life... well maybe not a little ray of sunshine hun.  LOL
Yaztromo
supporter, 431 posts
Tue 30 Mar 2021
at 18:43
  • msg #1801

Cultural issues

For sure part of it is a cultural issue: some people doesn't like to feel like they are boasting or celebrating in public too much.
On the other hand, having a place where you can vent (and it's OK to do it in that specific place) can be seen as a relief by somebody else.
I wouldn't recommend writing a sociology publication based on the number of posts in these specific threads...
Piestar
member, 853 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 03:01
  • msg #1802

Cultural issues

People who feel the need to answer questions in irrelevant ways.

This is based on FB, not here, but I follow several D&D pages there, and it is baffling. People will ask about a rule, or how we play some aspect of the game, and there are always these irritating people who reply 'the DM can do whatever they want'. Everybody knows that, if you don't have something to say that is useful or relevant, move on! Geez...
GreenTongue
member, 951 posts
Game Archaeologist
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 17:17
  • msg #1803

Cultural issues

In reply to Piestar (msg # 1802):

That is a way to "tag" the chat to be able to follow it but, yeah, "I'd like to know too" would be better.
Piestar
member, 854 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Thu 1 Apr 2021
at 20:04
  • msg #1804

Cultural issues

In reply to GreenTongue (msg # 1803):

I usually just drop a post that says 'following' but you can actually turn on notifications without leaving any post at all.
Piestar
member, 870 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Sat 1 May 2021
at 10:07
  • msg #1805

Cultural issues

Why exactly do so many people seem to dislike the descending AC numbers of early D&D? THAC0 seems so simple.
Jewwk of Shuu
member, 41 posts
"I cast: Pro: Sandwich"
GM: "But WHY?!"
Sat 1 May 2021
at 11:42
  • msg #1806

Cultural issues

In reply to Piestar (msg # 1805):

lol, I still have trouble not trying to subtract AC from THAC0 in 5e...we seem the minority, though. ;)
DeeYin
member, 29 posts
Sat 1 May 2021
at 16:52
  • msg #1807

Cultural issues

In reply to Piestar (msg # 1805):

I also like the elegance of THAC0, and prefer descending AC. But for most people, adding is easier than adding and subtracting, so can certainly see why they prefer ascending AC.

While I wish no harm to anyone, when someone says they cannot understand THAC0 at all, I always imagine their head would explode if they were to look at a golf leader board.
ShadoPrism
member, 1376 posts
OCGD-Obsessive-Compulsive
Gamer-Disorder
Sat 1 May 2021
at 21:50
  • msg #1808

Cultural issues

From what I have seen, they just keep trying to reinvent the horse with AD&D. so to speak.
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 387 posts
Sat 1 May 2021
at 22:02
  • msg #1809

AD&D

Well, if they don't keep trying to reinvent the horse, how else can they keep strong-arming people into buying new "improved" horses?

It's obnoxious behaviour, really. I'm all for new content from the games I play, but 'new content' isn't/shouldn't be 'an entirely new way of doing things that renders everything you already own useless and in need of replacement'. They might as well just scream 'GIVE US YOUR MONEY!' directly.
pawndream
member, 191 posts
Sat 1 May 2021
at 22:45
  • msg #1810

Cultural issues

In reply to Piestar (msg # 1805):

I started with descending AC and didn't think anything of it. No issues. That's just the way it was and I never gave it too much though. In 1e, I used a to-hit matrix. In 2e I never warmed to THAC0 and usually made a to-hit matrix so I didn't have to do the math.

3e came along and brought ascending AC. To-hit charts were no longer needed. Adding numbers to a dice roll and comparing it to a target number is intuitive; whereas, before you would add numbers to a d20 roll (to hit modifers, magic bonuses, etc.) to come up with a total number. Then, with that total number, you reverse engineer the number you need to hit descending AC. It's an unnecessary step. That's why I dislike it. I can do the math. I just don't want to.

I view it similar to how when I was a kid I used to type reports on a manual typewriter. At some point, I got an electric typewriter, and then a word processing program. When I didn't know about electric typewriters or word processors, manual typewriters were fine. Not so great after, other than for nostalgia.
praguepride
member, 1803 posts
"Hugs for the Hugs God!"
- Warhammer Fluffy-K
Sun 2 May 2021
at 00:44
  • msg #1811

Cultural issues

The problem with THAC0 is that you want an overall direction with your game for easy reference. Positives are good, negatives are bad (or vice versa). In AD&D it was kind of a hodgepodge where you wanted to roll high but you also wanted your THAC0 to be low. In a vacuum it's not hard but remember that a +1 to sword is good but +1 to armor is bad kind of wrecks people.
Sign In