Eggy
 member, 812 posts
Sat 25 May 2019
at 11:14
Re: Game hogs?
In reply to Shinoskay (msg # 33):

I have a ten-year-old game. I also enjoy a game that has an incredibly dedicated fanbase. It's not unusual for me to run across the same players when I join similar games. I focused on one aspect of this thread because I do not consider my gamer community as a problem.

Have you ever wondered if you didn't make it into a game because the GM just didn't like you? Or inferred something from your RTJ?


Do you ever go into GM's/Players wanted and participate? Or do you think that just shifts the FCFS problem to someone else?
evileeyore
 member, 187 posts
 GURPS GM and Player
Sat 25 May 2019
at 11:23
Re: Game hogs?
Shinoskay:
I dont think people are really considering the actual issue here, what I have presented as the issue, and really anything beyond "nani! you want to tell people how many games they can join?"

They probably just don't see it as a problem.
SunRuanEr
 member, 84 posts
Sat 25 May 2019
at 15:20
Re: Game hogs?
Because it isn't a problem.

Look, it would be nice if every GM accepted players based on quality RTJs and conversations with the person applying before just running down the list and slapping 'Accepted!' on the first ten RTJs that showed up... but you can't force people to do that. For everyone that prefers a nice steak dinner, someone's going to go to a fast food place and order off the dollar menu because it's cheap and easy.

If you don't like it done that way, you don't have to RTJ for things that are First Come, First Served since you think it's not fair... but it's every bit as unfair to claim that other people Can't/Shouldn't Be Able To run things that way if they want to.

This message was last edited by the user at 15:20, Sat 25 May.

donsr
 member, 1610 posts
Sat 25 May 2019
at 15:37
Re: Game hogs?
the whole thing in a nut shell....

 this was brought up  by a player who very much....wants..to play in certain games..but, gest  beat out in Games that have a finite  roster limit.

 In the end? Its like  buying  a new Video game or  Book, or trying to get into a theater to see a new Movie..some GMs  flat out  , can't handle the work load.

 As stated  before , there is a Gleaning process . Unless I have some on who was 'sent to me' by one of  my  players.. no one gets  rubber stamped... some folks , after a Month or so  leave..some, I thank for the interest and remove them..which is why I always    bump my ads...

RL sucks...people's  tastes  change..or you end up with a Player that doesn't get along  well with   your  game.

 Thus far, the best  suggestion is..don't apply to   games  with limits

 from  my point of view?.. apply for the games  you  really want to play...if yhou don't make the Numbers..or 'class' limits.. just shrug it off, tell the GM  to send you  a PM  or Rmail when he has an opening ( because they will)..then  YOU can decide  if you want to play there.
Gaffer
 member, 1555 posts
 Ocoee FL
 40 yrs of RPGs
Sat 25 May 2019
at 16:06
Re: Game hogs?
I'll just mention that I rarely see games at the initial stages where Memeber Names are even posted. Most GMs either create the characters with Character Names or use a placeholder like Player One, etc. So how can anyone say, generally, that it's this few "game hogs" filling up all the slots? Maybe it's a large and diverse group of players who just strike quicker than those who feel like they're unfairly being blocked.

Who knows?
pdboddy
 member, 639 posts
 EST/EDT [GMT-5/GMT-4]
Sat 25 May 2019
at 16:27
Re: Game hogs?
In reply to Gaffer (msg # 43):

Once you have interacted with people enough times, you can pick up their tells.  A way of writing, or perhaps they keep using the same character name over and over.  Or if you GM a few games yourself and see that a few people have applied to all of your games.

I think that if the situation outlined by the OP is true, it would be fairly easy to find out after playing in a bunch of games.

I don't know if it is as bad as the OP suggests.  But I have picked out players I've played with before based on their writing patterns, and a few on their posting times.

This message was last edited by the user at 16:28, Sat 25 May.

V_V
 member, 832 posts
Sat 25 May 2019
at 18:00
Re: Game hogs?

This message was deleted by a moderator, as it was inflammatory, at 19:28, Sat 25 May.

Michi_chan
 member, 120 posts
Sat 25 May 2019
at 18:26
Re: Game hogs?

This message was deleted by a moderator, as it was moot, at 19:31, Sat 25 May.

Eggy
 member, 813 posts
Sat 25 May 2019
at 19:13
Re: Game hogs?

This message was deleted by a moderator, as it was inflammatory, at 19:31, Sat 25 May.

V_V
 member, 833 posts
Sat 25 May 2019
at 20:20
Re: Game hogs?

This message was deleted by the user at 20:32, Sat 25 May.

Warrax
 member, 217 posts
Sun 26 May 2019
at 01:37
Re: Game hogs?
I think what we're seeing here is a lack of substantive commentary. There isn't really a problem here, just a grievance from an exceptionally small group of people over something which works just fine for the majority. Like, the root premise of this thread is kind of like... what?

"Oh no, people apply to games. That's bad!"

Like, what? That's nonsense. At it's root, that's just nonsense. This thread is about complaining that people apply to games, and DAMN GMs who accept RTJs which come in "before I've had a chance to RTJ."

And that's just non-sensical. There is no logical, sensible root to this discussion.
Warrax
 member, 218 posts
Sun 26 May 2019
at 02:19
Re: Game hogs?
I'm sort of flabbergasted by the level of entitlement which defines the start of this thread, I guess. It's tripping me up.

This idea that GMs should have to care that the same players are applying to many games is just ludicrous and ridiculous in my mind. Like, the OP notes "there are still plenty of games I am getting into," so why are we even having this conversation?

No one is "hogging games."

If people are accepting only first-come, first-served applications, then they also aren't doing quality control and the game is going to be crap and why would you bother? There are tons of GMs out there who are garbage; players have to be a little selective too, not just GMs. Look at what is involved in the RTJ, feel out the process. It's not always that hot.

The premise of this thread is so absurd, I don't even know where to start. "Oh no, people apply for too many games" is just so inane that I can't get over it. A limit on 'pending games' or 'games you have an active  or accepted RTJ in" is absurd and punitive for no reason. You even admit you're not having trouble getting into games, so you're basically starting crap because why? Nothing, basically. It isn't a problem. There are 5,000 games, and you're arguing to penalize people for applying to games, which is inane. At best.

There isn't logic here. There isn't reason. There isn't even a demonstrated problem. What you have is a non-complaint for the sake of making conflict, plus some vague commentary about a 10-year issue without actual proof that there is an issue. It's ridiculous.
Michi_chan
 member, 121 posts
Sun 26 May 2019
at 02:22
Re: Game hogs?
I believe as GM, no matter the system or game, you are that universe's god. As ST, you are so powerful that you do not have a sheet and if a GM isn't enjoying running the game, they are utterly free to end the game and thus they can pick and choose their players by any criteria they'd like. I know many GMs simply do not allow players into their games unless they are personally invited and they do not advertise their games, yet people still send in RTJs wanting to play and get very upset, sometimes even harassing the GM when their policies are explained and they are rejected. The vast majority of GMs I  know don't even allow lurkers as they feel it ruins some of the mystique of the game and unfairly exploits/reveals their players. .

Players absolutely have a choice in the games for which they RTJ. Just as when it became clear in games I have RTJ'd for when I realize the GM's playstyles and mine will not mesh, I have the freedom as a player to retract my RTJ and leave their game, and yes I have even had GMs tell me I'm not allowed to leave their game, and despite my requests I have had GMs refuse to delete my characters from their game when asked.

I will not lie I have experienced some absolute horror stories on this site from GMs when I wasn't even in their game. I mean, I've had GMs try to retroactively turn the concept I submitted to them into pedophiles, GMs who flat out told me that they wouldn't accept character concepts due to race or other criteria which were not made clear within their game in any fashion, GMs that have tried to run material against the ToS, and I've had GMs accuse me of all kinds of things by my RTJs alone.

I keep notes on users around the sites whom I have had negative experiences with as a player and a GM, and when I run games, I do not permit those players into my game. Many of my friends who GM have a similar policy and we have shared notes in the past as players who are problems in one of our games have a tendency to RTJ in all of our games with the same concept and look to cause trouble elsewhere as well. GMs do talk off-site especially if they know each other offsite, and every player I have turned away from a game I did so either because they had proved to be a problem in the past, or because the concept they pitched wouldn't be likely to have much to do in my campaign and thus I worry that player would be more bored than anything.

 Are there certain players who apply to a lot of games over time and submit characters with the same name/type? Yes. Is it as prevalent as OP is making it out to be? I've noticed it only a few times, and usually only because those are users who I've had negative issues with previously, and it helps me avoid them.

 Do I think GMs or players should be limited in any way? No. Users are free to make their own decisions. GMs have the right to set any and all criteria they want for their own games that they sink hours upon hours of unpaid uncompensated work into for the enjoyment of those they want to participate. Players have the right to either accept that agreement and conditions for each game they play, or they have the right to go to a game with conditions they are willing to meet.

As Warrax has said, there are around 5,000 active games currently on this site, and players Wanted has ads for new ones everyday. The idea that some person or group of people are just going around applying in every single one of them solely so other people can't play seems a bit far-fetched.
Sarge67
 member, 56 posts
Mon 17 Jun 2019
at 00:46
Re: Game hogs?
Wow!!! This thread is still going.

Game Hogs?  I don't see it.

I see cliques, yes groups of friends playing with friends.

Why does an ST/DM have to change anything? There are 1 DM/500 Players on here.  Several DM/STs are running 5 or more games.

Solutions for not getting into games?

1. Run a game yourself, get a group of friends and join their games.  Games don't have to be completely serious, rules are guidelines that DM/STs can change with what their idea is for their story.  You can be as funny, odd, dangerous, or easygoing as you want it to be and I guarantee there will be enough to make a group.

This also applies to players that want the golden goose of immortality. The ones that want the strongest, richest, and most loved characters (called NPCs).


2. Be Flexible.  Be willing to try out game systems that you never played before. There are always new games being opened.  Some from game systems that I can't even remember from decades ago.

3. Post in here in the PROPER THREAD and create a bio of the game systems and genres you are interested in..Maybe some random reader will say 'hey I got a game I'm planning I'll invite this person.'  It may also show the players that those with very narrow systems result in very few options.


DM/STs enjoy telling stories, but they also put a lot of time and effort in creating something others will enjoy too.  That effort should not be rewarded with being forced to allow players that aren't playing many games just because.

This message was last edited by the user at 15:14, Mon 17 June.

praguepride
 member, 1436 posts
 "Hugs for the Hugs God!"
 - Warhammer Fluffy-K
Mon 17 Jun 2019
at 01:06
Re: Game hogs?
Oh hey, this thread. Here are some thoughts

1) For game systems there are, as sarge said, definitely cliques. When I run a Pathfinder game I almost expect to see a few familiar names. Same with Mutants & Masterminds. Same with Vampire. There are some very active players who apply to a lot of games. If they can keep up with those games then what is the problem?

2) As a long time GM I like a mixture of new and old blood in my games. The old people are known quantities. I know what they will post, when they will post, how they will post. I know they won't cause drama. I know that they won't murder-hobo my games. That being said I also tend to know how they'll react to things so getting some new blood is important but new blood is a risk. You don't know any of those things. They can flake out or try and cheat or turn out to be drama llamas.

3) Good RTJs are good RTJs and poor RTJs are poor RTJs. Having seen hundreds and hundreds of them it is very clear who has taken time and care in crafting their applications versus who has just shot off something super quick off the top of their heads. If you're constantly getting rejected you can ask for tips on how to get in next time. Sometimes it is entirely not your fault due to party compositions or the direction you take your character vs. how the GM wants the game to go but many times there are a lot of feedback critiques that can help you step up your game. It's like applying for jobs. Little things can add up to a big Yes or a big No
donsr
 member, 1628 posts
Mon 17 Jun 2019
at 01:43
Re: Game hogs?
indeed ,  but  there is  still a bit of an interview  I have despite RTJs.. most, I know will understand..the ones that don't understand ..most likely  will just lave.. or.. if they   give it a shot.. they will bail.

 I don'[t mind the  bailers , as long as they say thie r are leaving... it doesn't take much guys to  say ".. This  game isn't  for me.."
Sarge67
 member, 57 posts
Mon 17 Jun 2019
at 02:32
Re: Game hogs?
Adding what Donsr just said though, it is equally important that DM/ST at least PM reply an RJT just to say 'I haven't forgotten about you, just going over RJTs.'  I spent a week not knowing I was accepted to a game I applied to.  Figured  I was rejected.  After 3 days of no feedback in any form, I figure I'm left out and move on.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15746 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Mon 17 Jun 2019
at 03:39
Re: Game hogs?
Sarge67:
Wow!!! This thread is still going.

Actually it was pretty much dead, until you bumped it.  :D

Sarge67:
3. Post in here in the chat room another bio of the game systems and genres you are interested in..Maybe some random reader will say 'hey I got a game I'm planning I'll invite this person.'

Do NOT do this.  Posting in here to look for games will just get your post deleted.  Do it often enough, and you will lose the ability to post here.  If you want to look for a game, please use the Wanted - GMs forum (and only the Wanted - GMs forum).
Sarge67
 member, 59 posts
Mon 17 Jun 2019
at 15:11
Re: Game hogs?
There has to be a place (I used chat as an example) to post a bio. Where others can go and look at what game genres a player is interested in.

I admit, my bad for not pointing out chat was only an example...  An area only for bios.
pdboddy
 supporter, 673 posts
 EST/EDT [GMT-5/GMT-4]
Mon 17 Jun 2019
at 15:40
Re: Game hogs?
That would be a decent idea, Sarge67.  The little bio section under our names is a bit too tiny to hold our list of game interests.  A small field for that would be cool to have under the user profile.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15747 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Mon 17 Jun 2019
at 16:16
Re: Game hogs?
In reply to Sarge67 (msg # 57):

Not in a public forum there isn't, no.  But if you go to User Preferences (link at the top left of the screen, directly below the RPoL logo) you will see that there is an option to set up an autobiography which can hold up to 10,240 characters.
pdboddy
 supporter, 674 posts
 EST/EDT [GMT-5/GMT-4]
Mon 17 Jun 2019
at 16:36
Re: Game hogs?
Been here almost 15 years and still learning new things.  Thanks, BBR! :)
facemaker329
 member, 7092 posts
 Gaming for over 30
 years, and counting!
Wed 19 Jun 2019
at 06:34
Re: Game hogs?
Not to beat a dead horse here, but...*pulls out a club and winds up*

I've been on both sides of the FCFS/long-form RTJ process as a player.  I've had some good results from both, and I've had a lot of bad results from both.  It's a bit short-sighted to assume that this one element, out of the entire chemistry of what builds a game, will determine its success or failure.

If there's a group of prospective players that are spam-casting RTJs to games...so what?  Anyone who's been here for more than a few months can very likely attest to the fact that just because you RTJ does not mean you get to play.  I've had plenty of RTJs to games that I REALLY wanted to be part of get rejected, with every answer from "I've already filled all the slots" (even though the game ad is only a few hours old) to "Your character concept it too close to someone that's already in the game" (and I got no opportunity to revise the character and no feedback on what was too similar) to "Sorry, I should have taken the ad down, I've decided to fold up the game."  If these people are getting away with this, it's because GMs are accepting their RTJs...and that's the GM's prerogative.  There's nothing the players are doing that is making that more or less likely to happen.  On top of that, I've seen enough posts from people who are trying to start more obscure games and CAN'T get enough players to join to make the game enjoyable that I have a really hard time buying into the notion that there's some assortment of players out there who are RTJ'ing every game that comes along.

Yeah, I'm sure there ARE games that get swamped with RTJs by the same players...because there are games that are being run using systems that are currently very popular and familiar to a huge audience.  Why wouldn't a hundred people who love D&D5e RTJ to a new game that started up?  A decade ago, it was a different system, but the same phenomenon was happening.  That's basic supply-and-demand, the world tends to run that way.  Anyone who's being inconvenienced by this supposed problem can find a way to work around it...look for games who aren't taking FCFS RTJs.  Look for games that are looking for replacement players.  Look for games that aren't the newest, most popular system.  Focus on the quality of your RTJ, rather than the speed (someone mentioned sending a short message that expressed interest, rather than shooting off a shoddy RTJ...that works.  That was exactly how I got into one of the two longest-running games I'm in, by sending the GM a message saying I was interested and wanted to make sure I got looked at before all the slots filled up, but I wasn't ready to send the whole character write-up at the moment.)

If you're not the kind of player who's ready-made characters are standing by, waiting to be fired off like aerial seeding a lawn, hoping that one or two might find fertile ground and take root, then why would you want to join a game with a GM who is looking for exactly that sort of player?  Consider the chemistry of the game, first and foremost...if the GM is looking for players whose style is vastly different from your own, odds are good you're going to have a rough time adjusting to that game.  And if you're the kind of GM who prefers well-considered, thought-out characters, why would you take an RTJ that smacks of being a carbon-copy submission with little or no effort put into tailoring it for your game?

If there's a problem here, the problem is a matter of poor judgment from players and GMs, and that's not something the moderators are generally going to get involved with (unless said poor judgment violates the TOU or other site policies).  It's not something that's going to be fixed by some new policy, anyway, because it's not that kind of a problem.
pdboddy
 supporter, 676 posts
 EST/EDT [GMT-5/GMT-4]
Wed 19 Jun 2019
at 09:48
Re: Game hogs?
I've found it best to just not take it personally, I mean, unless the GM rejects you in such a way that it's meant to be taken personally.  Which I've never had a GM do.  I've had the silent treatment, which kind of sucks, but what can you do?

There's always the next one to get into...
donsr
 member, 1629 posts
Wed 19 Jun 2019
at 10:13
Re: Game hogs?
  over the eyars, the  games I did not get into was mostly,  " we have a charcter  that class already'

  I received a few " I'll  contact you if    we lose a player.."

  for  my part, as a GM.. I really don't care what thier     'classs'  is I rather have them play what they  want?..I have a few folks who just  , flat out crashed  and burned.. leaving the  game  after wards.

 but, that's all part of it...I figure, if you let   folks play  what they want, they might  put  more effort into posting.

 there are some really   dumb ideas  I just shoot  down.. and  some     others     we pare  down to fit the game world..

 In the end?  none of us  are gettign paid here.. so  GMs   .run the game how you want.... Players, join a game that  you think you will enjoy. If  if  it comes  down to  not getting in?..Like PDboddy said, look fore the next one.