Sarge67
 member, 63 posts
Fri 21 Jun 2019
at 12:58
Star Trek Adventures  vs Star Trek Decipher
I have been a Decipher (Star Trek CODA) fan since the original books first came out. I was upset when the company chose to stop persuing the tabletop game in favor of the card games.

Since Star Trek Adventures came out, it's popularity has grown amongst Star Trek RPG fans.  I recently started a game and because the character generation is easier, I chose to use the STA information before really understanding the system.

I still do not know everything regarding STA or ST CODA, but I'm learning things that are starting to make me regret switching.

I admit there are problems with the character creation system in Star Trek Decipher.  There are three parts on creation and after the attributes are rolled, the upbringing and career paths are unorganized requiring the player to flip from page 120 to 150 to 118 to 134.

AFTER that painful creation process which was Decipher's first book (Every RPG's first book has issues) the following books became more organized.  The books provided more detail into career paths, gave a clear way to earn experience, costs to upgrade, options to progress into other careers, advanced careers, and civilian careers.

Ship building took longer, but players could understand the ship options and were provided the technical information needed to create customized ships. Upgrade ships, gave ships special traits and/or flaws.

ST resources gave in depth information on how to create your own planetary systems, new species and governments (how advanced were they, what weaknesses, etc).


Star Trek Advetures

Gave fans a piece of cornbread and told the STs they had to make the stew.  Yes, character creation is easy.  Rolling 2D20 is easier than a bunch of D6s,

Character Creation is easy, considerably easier. Attributes, Abilities, Focus, talents, and values.

      Perception is conjectural with no established check.  The game was easy
         to create because they either ignored or marginalized aspects.  Each
         individual, from player to ST has their own opinions and by goodness the
         conflicts based on opinions that can arise from no written guidance.

         There is just no experience points or advancement costs
         to gain new abilities.
  You got this and you are stuck with this. I
         have seen STs create homebrew experience but the system failed.

         Part of the enjoyment of games is watcing your character grow and customizing
         them into unique individuals. With no guidance to advance or expand into
         other career how are characters expected to grow?  Without seeing progress
         how long are players going to sit back before wanting more?


         creating ships is nothing more than placing numbers next to attributes and
         system attributes.  There is no damage chart, no advanced systems.  No way to
         advance the ship.

Throwing ten rules on the table and expecting STs to create a Homebrew solution for every detail the system writers failed to address is also not a solution.  It creates an system where there is no continuity from one game to another.  It also makes the ST create the system which after paying for a book should not be expected to do.

Finally; Follow up books.

Decipher chose to expand species with information on attribute bonuses, weaknesses, traits, and Edges. Added Monsters/Creatures, worlds, advanced ship operations with additional ship building information, world creation.  Modiphius chose to create supplements.

Maybe I'm wrong and missing something.  If I am please share because I prefer an easier system, but don't like the black holes beginning to expand in my quadrant.
Shaman
 member, 180 posts
Fri 21 Jun 2019
at 17:10
Star Trek Adventures  vs Star Trek Decipher
I don't have my books on me but you can grow your character in STA. It just takes forever with the RAW. Look up Milestones. It requires reaching an ARC milestone to improve in the way that you are looking for.
Nintaku
 member, 625 posts
Fri 21 Jun 2019
at 21:58
Re: Star Trek Adventures  vs Star Trek Decipher
Sarge67:
[snip]

      Perception is conjectural with no established check.  The game was easy
         to create because they either ignored or marginalized aspects.  Each
         individual, from player to ST has their own opinions and by goodness the
         conflicts based on opinions that can arise from no written guidance.


Perception is given little attention relative to some other RPGs because it's harder to gauge in a galaxy with infinite different variations on senses. They say as much, too. Did you have any particular questions in regards to how it works, or how the game wants you to look at it (that's a perception pun, you see)? It's very situational. Still, they suggest that which Discipline you roll to perceive something depends on what it is you're doing, and they also give guidelines on difficulty for how stealthy something is trying to be and how far away it is. What is it you're missing that you wanted?

Sarge67:
         There is just no experience points or advancement costs
         to gain new abilities.
  You got this and you are stuck with this. I
         have seen STs create homebrew experience but the system failed.

         Part of the enjoyment of games is watcing your character grow and customizing
         them into unique individuals. With no guidance to advance or expand into
         other career how are characters expected to grow?  Without seeing progress
         how long are players going to sit back before wanting more?


Check out STA page 293, Experience & Promotion, for character progression rules, including Challenging Values, the three types of Milestones, and the Reputation and Promotion system.

Sarge67:
         creating ships is nothing more than placing numbers next to attributes and
         system attributes.  There is no damage chart, no advanced systems.  No way to
         advance the ship.


Milestones can be applied to the ship, in addition to the character receiving it.

Sarge67:
[more snip]

Finally; Follow up books.

Decipher chose to expand species with information on attribute bonuses, weaknesses, traits, and Edges. Added Monsters/Creatures, worlds, advanced ship operations with additional ship building information, world creation.  Modiphius chose to create supplements.

Maybe I'm wrong and missing something.  If I am please share because I prefer an easier system, but don't like the black holes beginning to expand in my quadrant.


Decipher accomplished that by releasing supplements. Modiphius is doing the same thing. I'm not sure what the problem is here. And the STA supplements contain all that stuff too, going more in depth into the various species of each sector, many of which were mentioned and statted briefly in the core book, as well as details on command structures, new ships, talents, plot ideas, full adventures, and all kinds of useful things.

What is it the Decipher books did that the STA books haven't done?
12th Doctor
 member, 100 posts
 Laugh Hard. Run Fast.
 Be kind.
Sun 23 Jun 2019
at 13:18
Re: Star Trek Adventures  vs Star Trek Decipher
This reads to me like you just prefer the Decipher system and are looking for justification to dislike the Modiphius iteration. If Decipher is your jam, play it!
praguepride
 member, 1441 posts
 "Hugs for the Hugs God!"
 - Warhammer Fluffy-K
Sun 23 Jun 2019
at 14:58
Re: Star Trek Adventures  vs Star Trek Decipher
Having one skill or check for Perception is kind of poor design. STA just makes you ask “what are you looking at/for” and how are you doing it.

Are you looking for danger? Anomolies? Lies?

I am carefully looking in this specific spot for danger: Control + Security

I am scanning everything quick for traps: Daring + Security.

I am using my tricoder to scan the atmosphere of the environment: Reason + Science

I am checking to see if the person is lying to me: Insight + Leadership

Everyone is conditioned by d20 to think looking at your surroundings is a single check but that is just one paradigm. STA favors heavily giving players lots of options so nobody feels crippled or unable to participate in a meaningful way.