Unavailable
 member, 5 posts
 I have a bag that can
 make random potions
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 14:46
Can GM also be a Player?
please answer
Rez
 member, 4495 posts
 Hmm.
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 14:47
Can GM also be a Player?
Yes.
Unavailable
 member, 6 posts
 I have a bag that can
 make random potions
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 14:48
Can GM also be a Player?
Thank you.
evileeyore
 member, 237 posts
 GURPS GM and Player
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 15:32
Can GM also be a Player?
Depends on what the definition of 'is' is.

Do you mean "Can they have an NPC that is listed as a Player in the Cast pages?"  Then "Yes".

Do you mean should they run an NPC as a "GM PC"... then we're getting into murkier philosophical/ethical waters.
azzuri
 member, 454 posts
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 15:34
Can GM also be a Player?
Of course a GM may have, and play, a character that is no different than any other player character in the Cast. I do it all the time.
Dream Sequence
 member, 50 posts
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 15:36
Can GM also be a Player?
In reply to evileeyore (msg # 4):

If they're open about it, letting the whole game know that one of the PCs is a GM PC, then I can't imagine why it would be a problem.  It's only "murkier philosophical/ethical waters" if they try to hide it, I think.
donsr
 member, 1712 posts
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 15:49
Can GM also be a Player?
yep, in my games the   main 'GM/PC/NPC ' helps  drive the game, but there is a lot of RP with it too... the   1000's of NPCs in the game are aslo, flushed out, as  not to be ignored..or...focused on.
 like writing a book, you never know  which NPCs   ( besides the  main ones)  will be important.

 In Play by Post, its important to be able to keep the game moving , ebcause  stalled games die.
evileeyore
 member, 239 posts
 GURPS GM and Player
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 16:46
Re: Can GM also be a Player?
Dream Sequence:
If they're open about it, letting the whole game know that one of the PCs is a GM PC, then I can't imagine why it would be a problem.  It's only "murkier philosophical/ethical waters" if they try to hide it, I think.

If it's open, list them as NPCs.  If you're hiding it, for whatever reason*, then list them as PCs.



* And no, I don't mean to drag this into a "what is best in gaming" discussion.  I was clarifying that there are two facets to the OP's question.  If the OP wants to go there (or the thread drifts), ce la vie.  There are 'legitimate' reasons to hide the NPC as a PC and there are not-so legitimate reasons.

Quotes to designate I do not ever see a legitimate reason.  But that's not to say I feel others are morally wrong (to each their own game), rather I simply disagree.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15797 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 16:55
Can GM also be a Player?
In reply to Dream Sequence (msg # 6):

Why is it bad "if they try to hide it"?

Online roleplaying gives an opportunity that never existed in tabletop games - imagine a game where one PC is secretly played by the GM, and is actually working against the rest of the group.  A traitor in their midst, who will steal the artefact that they are on a mission to recover, or kill the person they are supposed to be protecting, or summon up the dark god whose rise they are trying to prevent...

At the table, the GM's friend can play that role... but all the secret note passing and furtive glances can give away the fact that the character is not to be trusted.
Unavailable
 member, 7 posts
 I have a bag that can
 make random potions
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 16:56
Can GM also be a Player?
thanks
SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 152 posts
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 17:11
Re: Can GM also be a Player?
evileeyore:
Quotes to designate I do not ever see a legitimate reason.

Honestly, I see more reasons to hide a GM PC than to out one.

Why? Because 9/10 of the people I have ever played with have a tendency to absolutely, 100% ignore anything labeled 'NPC'. It's like, to the players, those characters don't exist, don't matter, only give plot points, and are useless to interact with. If I'm in a game where it's imperative that PCs actually interact to get plot cues/information/push story, then I've found that those GM-run characters need to be hidden among the PCs... otherwise, they'll get ignored. Or, conversely, everything they say will be treated as more important because they said it (As in "well, this tidbit of information MUST matter, regardless of how trivial it is, because it came from an NPC, even though I would have ignored it from another PC!")

A hidden GMPC can push plot points in a far more subtle fashion, like BBR said, without things becoming hamfisted or stilted.
evileeyore
 member, 240 posts
 GURPS GM and Player
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 19:15
Re: Can GM also be a Player?
bigbadron:
Why is it bad "if they try to hide it"?

To me?  It implies you don't trust me as a Player.  And it's simply not something I'll do.  If I don't trust a Player, I eject them from the game.



SunRuanEr:
A hidden GMPC can push plot points in a far more subtle fashion, like BBR said, without things becoming hamfisted or stilted.

Another aspect of it I don't like.  Unless I'm in a railroad game anyway, in which case... said N/PC isn't necessary.
SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 153 posts
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 19:30
Re: Can GM also be a Player?
evileeyore:
It implies you don't trust me as a Player.

After years of seeing players post interaction after interaction after interaction with a character and then suddenly stop doing anything with a character the moment they find out it's run by the GM/it winds up becoming an NPC for some reason? You're right, I don't trust players to treat NPCs like PCs, and I go out of my way to avoid outing GM-run PCs for precisely that reason. In all of my years on RPoL I can count the number of people I have encountered that treat NPCs and PCs with the same degree of care on one hand, and have fingers left over. Heck, most of the players I wind up playing with go so far as to act like abandoned characters that become NPCs cease to exist entirely, even when they were around and active two days ago.

I 100% don't trust players to treat PCs and NPCs the same, and if I need a character to be paid the same amount of attention to as a PC, it's going to have to be labeled as a PC. Too many people have taught me that having that 'N' in the tag results in things I don't want, otherwise. Blame the years of previous players that don't treat all characters equally, with or without the 'N', for my lack of trust...but better safe than sorry.

This message was last edited by the user at 19:32, Fri 27 Sept.

Egleris
 member, 176 posts
Fri 27 Sep 2019
at 19:38
Re: Can GM also be a Player?
SunRuanEr:
Because 9/10 of the people I have ever played with have a tendency to absolutely, 100% ignore anything labeled 'NPC'. It's like, to the players, those characters don't exist, don't matter, only give plot points, and are useless to interact with.

Out of curiosity, how do games like this can possibly even work? Not criticizing or anything here, just trying to understand - interacting with a fictional world is the whole point of roleplaying, so ignoring the most actively interactive part of that fictional world (the fictional creature that live inside it) seems to me like it'd make playing completely pointless.

And most certainly, in any game I'd be running, not treating the NPCs as living creatures with their own agenda and emotion can very quickly lead to death - for PCs and NPCs alike, depending on the situation. I tend to have something like two-to-four NPCs just join the PCs when it makes sense for them to do so, too, and that's never been a problem.

So... just trying to understand how such a different playstyle could work.