So I'm running a high magic low level campaign and some of the players are more advanced races and I need some advice. This is my first time running an actual campaign to so that doesn't help.

Hi Glaxton,

Congrats on taking the plunge to being a game master.

Every GM has different styles, tastes, and focuses. That will flavor the advice you get.

High magic is a vague term and means very little considering the default is assuming this to be the case. Forgotten Realms and Golarion are considered "high magic" campaign settings, where magic items and magic is abundant. Low-level is still low-level.

The first question you need to ask yourself is, what style of game are you planning on running?

Low-level games tend to focus on basic survival (Resource management) - the characters have very few hit points, a handful of spells, and not much backup in terms of magic. These games are challenging in combat (tactics can make or break the party), being extremely careful about not falling victim to traps (Anything at this level can be fatal).

Crossing a chasm, climbing a rope, deciding when to rest and recover. All are of key importance at this level since they lack 2nd level spells that will alleviate such things - levitate, knock, and rope trick. Once they reach 3rd level, they are quite as squishy, and have more magic to help them overcome some obstacles. With rope trick, they never have to worry about camping encounters where they fight in their skivvies. With levitating, chasms, and climbing is no longer a concern. Some might say Spider Climb, but you still need to make checks, by far Levitate is a champ. It also allows for proto-aerial combat, one or two characters will be unassailable by melee weapons.

The style campaign sets the tone of the game. Advanced Races add far more complexity so be aware that some things might not be challenging, especially if you allow a flying or climbing race into the mix.

Okay, so that's an overview, and I'm sure you'll get more. What advice are you actually asking for?

In reply to drew0500 (msg # 2):

So the advice I'm looking for is I need to know how to damage the pcs enough to scare them but not kill them. Since the are advanced races and using the gestalt system (which I know is 3.5 but I let them use it anyways) they kill everything in there path to easily. For example, I threw 20 orcs at them and two cr4 demons and they killed them all with ease.

Making encounters challenging can be fun to do.

One thing I try to avoid is boring tactics.  Boring — to me anyway — is when players/monsters just stand in one spot and hit one another until one of them drops.  Make them fight near the edge of a cliff, or on the deck of a storm-tossed ship or something.  Make the very environment something to contend with / plan for / use to their advantage.  Heck, make them fight on different levels and give them a way to swing across like on a chandelier or something.

Next, put them on some sort of time crunch.  Sure ... they have to fight twenty orcs ... but can they fight their way through the horde in time to save the princess before she is lowered into the lava?  Another thing I would do is to directly affect their action economy.  Give them something very, very important to do that does not involve rolling a d20 and bashing heads.  Does the ancient scroll need to be translated before the pack of mummies find their way into the tomb?  Perhaps the death trap can only be averted by messing with a magical lock ... but try telling the grave scarabs that you need a minute to think about the problem.  That kind of thing.

Lastly, don't forget about buffs and debuffs.  I'm not super familiar with PF but I assume the point is valid in this system as well.  A high AC only matters if the enemy seeks to physically damage, a high stack of hit points only matter against the sort of enemy that wants to rip them apart, etc.  Have them face a beast that can drain an ability (or a level), you'll see how quick they pay attention.

Happy Hunting.
This message was last edited by the user at 21:40, Sun 26 Mar 2023.

A tip I've learned is to try and give the players the opportunity to drive the story. Sometimes GMs go overboard and create super elaborate stories to railroad the players along but from a player perspective these tend to be the more forgettable adventures. Instead listen to the players as they talk and pull ideas from their conversations and actions.

In my current tabletop game some of the most memorable events for all of us are stuff that I didn't plan, but instead the players came up with an idea and I ran with it. Hell half the time now I don't even know how the adventures are going to end because I'm just reacting to the players.

It's always a special GM moment when they are exploring a dungeon and they're like "Man, I bet a mummy built this place to house a secret vault of blah blah blah" and I'm behind the screen thinking "yeah....that's so much better then what I had planned! Let's' do that instead!"

What praguepride said is extremely true. Listen to the players. They'll be their own worst nightmares making the game filled with their ideas. Plus, the suggested ideas will make the players think they are smart for figuring it out. ;) In the same vein, don't be afraid to make changes to make the game fun or challenging. But don't conflate 'fun' or 'challenging' as depriving them of a creative victory. If they beat a boss villain through a crazy idea, let them. (Reuse the boss reskinned later, don't sweat it).

As to challenging the characters, surprise them. Does the next room have zombies? Okay, but this batch explodes upon hitting 0 HP and deals xd6 fire damage or sprays out acid; setting an environmental hazard in a 15' radius for 1d3+1 rounds. Your orcs are under the control of a demon or demons? Incorporate it so the players can defeat them through traditional means, but at the cost of their weapons breaking, but if they use the environment they won't have to lose gear. Juju zombies are tough buggers. Orcs with a template can be unexpected.

Do NOT tell them "You're facing twenty orcs", instead, describe the orcs, and give them an estimated count. Unless they make a skill check, they should not automatically know what they are facing. Keeping the players guessing makes for challenges. The game is built on uncertainty. As the GM, dole out the information they should have access to, but don't give them more than that. In most of my games, there is less slaughter and more investigation, parley, and gaining allies. How you present scenarios will push the players to respond one way or another. For example, they burst into a room, and don't say "roll initiative", instead, have the creatures respond in some fashion. Unless the creature is attacking, allow for some sort of interaction. You'll be surprised by what the characters will do when the thing begs for mercy or yells at them for interrupting its meal/shower/sleep.

Instead of slaughtering everything quests - Give them the challenge to capture an enemy alive to obtain necessary information. You can always boost up HP, AC, saves, or add additional powers/resistances, but that should be a last resort.

If you don't want the characters to have a cakewalk, then you shouldn't give them access to gestalt, mythic, or other major boosts to their capabilities. Using advanced rules should be saved when you have mastered the basics. Allowing gestalt is an invitation to power gaming builds that deal more damage and have greater staying power. But use the opportunity to learn and see what works and what doesn't.

Last bit... It's not GM vs. Players/Characters. Collaboration is vital. You are there to help them tell a story, adjudicating the rules is a part of it. But this is a game where challenges matter, victory is sweet, defeat is bitter, consequences happen, and the story evolves.

Hope that helps.

This is not politically correct, but it is nonetheless true. The more you can correctly distinguish between to/too, there/their/they're, and similar grammatical conundra, the happier your players will be. Obviously some won't care at all, but... some will. And personally, I think it's worth getting these things right for the sake of the language, big picture. $0.02.

So many GMs, even experienced GMs forget this.

Don't be afraid of trying new ideas.  While a core book only game is easy to run, it's also going to drive off many players (usually the more experienced ones) who prefer options.  Check the SRD, google it, and ask for advice.   There's at least one discussion group for Pathfinder on these boards.

While it's already been mentioned, communicate with your players.   Personally, I prefer giving my players either a basic idea of things like AC (or just linking the monster page).  Other GMs prefer more mystery...both ways work.
Corollary: If you're stuck, ask your players.   No matter how linear a story you write, they'll not only run it off the rails (usually very quickly) but often have better ideas for immersion.   The best person to ask about a character is the person who make it.

Finally: Do it your way.   While it's a slogan; you're not going to make everyone happy.   Be forward with expectations (when you're setting the game up works best) and be open to stuff you hadn't expected.

Another tip I've heard that is ESPECIALLY useful for play-by-post is to put the players on a clock. Nothing too extreme but just keep a subtle pressure going to keep the game moving.

For example if you present a heist situation it is all too common for the game to grind to a halt while players endlessly plan and replan but ineveitably 5 seconds into the adventure something goes wrong and so those hours and hours of planning end up being a waste.

If players are lingering too long "thinking" instead of "doing" i'll mention stuff like the sun is starting to set or that an enemy patrol is heading their way or other ways to mark the passage of time.

I let players "pause" a little bit for tactical strategy but if it gets longer than a couple of minutes I'll imply I'm going to move on without them and that usually gives them just the little kick they need to keep things moving.



AND ANOTHER tip is don't be afraid to cut combat early or let it drag on if its going cool. The general rule of thumb is that if the PCs are in full control but are dealing with combat sponges or it's hitting double digit turns just end if it the combat is getting too samey. Nobody wants to play 20 rounds of "I swing...and I miss. Enemy swings...and misses."

On the flipside is PCs, especially optimized ones, can burst a TON of damage and a lot of published modules have incredibly weak bosses because they're trying to account for new players. Don't be afraid to double a boss' HP, especially if they are getting crushed in action economy. Or better yet throw in some mooks and minions to support the boss so it is a more equal fight. 5 PCs vs. 1 Boss is going to be REALLY bad for that boss but 5 PCs vs. 1 Boss + 3 minions whose sole purpose is to basically make sure the party can't dogpile the boss turn 1 can be a huge change in the tide of battle.