I've considered adding the Drizzt books to represent the D&D style adventures of fantasy but didn't because Wheel of Time seemed to hit on a similar style of writing while essentially inventing the epic length saga for fantasy.

I decided to start the list with Lord of the Rings as the foundation for modern fantasy.  I could go back and include Conan but then I'd feel obligated to go back farther and include all of the pulp stuff or even farther to include all of the pre-Tolkien British fantasy.  It's not a perfect starting place, but I think it's the best for this list.

I haven't read beyond the First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant so I'll take your word for it and adjust the entry to include the entire Thomas Covenant metaseries.  I'll have to read the Second Chronicles sometime to see for myself.

Shannara should be on the list!  I thought it was already on there but I must have forgotten about it when typing up the post.  I'm not sure whether to limit it to the original trilogy or not, but I'll just leave it on the inclusive side for now.

I haven't read any of the other series you've mentioned, but I'll definitely look into them and see if they deserve a spot.

Minimum works to be read (Series dated by first volume):
50s:    Lord of the Rings
Chronicles of Narnia

60s: Wizard of Earthsea
The Last Unicorn

70s: The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant
Neverending Story
Shannara

80s: The Dark Tower
Discworld
Seventh Son
The Belgeriad
Legend

90s: Wheel of Time
A Song of Ice and Fire
Assassin's Apprentice
Stardust/Neverwhere
Malazan: Book of the Fallen
Harry Potter

00s: Kingkiller Chroicles
The Cosmere (Stormlight Archive, Mistborn, etc.)
Dresden Files
Gentleman's Bastard
American Gods
The First Law

10s: **Not final but for now:
Lightbringer?
City of Stairs?

If you are looking for iconic, groundbreaking works that defined the genre, I would go with:

Conan (medieval/pulp icon)

Lord of the Rings (iconic fantasy canon)

Narnia (iconic children's fantasy)

Chronicles of Prydain (classic children fantasy)

Shannara (revolutionized fantasy and brought it mainstream)

Thomas Covenant (dark fantasy/antihero, world making (especially second series))

Belgariad (reinventing the idea of magic source and quest adventure)

"MythAdventure" series (low brow humor)

"Discworld" series (clever humor)

Xanth (humor, pun, classic fantasy)

Dragonlance and/or Dryzzt (roleplaying fusion)

Changewind series (sociological identity experiment fusion with fantasy)

Harry Potter (modern fantasy)

A Song of Ice and Fire (brutal fantasy)


I was tempted to put in here "Guardians of the Flame" series, but many of you probably don't know it and it's probably not revolutionary per se.  It was the first series where players of a D&D type of game transported into the bodies of their characters in the fantastic land and then had to figure out a way to get back to earth.

The Incarnations of Immortality spawned 7 books, but I'm not sure it is fantasy per se, though it has very original ideas.  Same with Apprentice Adept series.

I don't think "Wheel of Time" merits mention.  It is a long, sprawling saga (like the Dragonriders series by McCaffrey) that really can be experienced through a Wikipedia entry better than reading it--IMHO.

Changewind sounds really interesting.  I'll have to add it to my list of things to read.

While The Wheel of Time is far from the best written series on the list I think you're being unappreciative of how it shaped the genre.  The Dragonriders books were a couple of trilogies that told primarily independent stories set in the same world.  McCaffrey later went on to write many other books in this world but this is very different from what Robert Jordan did.  The Wheel of Time told a single story that kept building from novel to novel.  So while R.A. Salvatore generally constructed the Drizzt books as successive trilogies Wheel of Time was one story where the books served essentially as really long chapters.  No one had ever written fantasy at this length before but it proved popular enough to allow several other seemingly endless series to enter the market.  A few other series such as Malazan, A Song of Ice and Fire, and the Stormlight Archive would be published later but unless I am mistaken Wheel of Time did it first and the longest.

Honestly, I could never make it through Wheel of Time.  I found it boring and presumptuous.  To tell someone they must read that neverending saga if they want to really appreciate fantasy fiction is sadistic.  :)

It is one of those series that people either love or hate, and proves that the first to do something isn't necessarily the best.  Game of Thrones did it better and in a far more compelling manner.  If you don't know anything about Wheel of Time, you can do just fine with other fantasy literature--not so much LOTR, Narnia, Shannara, or Harry Potter, to name a few.  But Wheel of Time is essentially soap opera for fantasy.

Along with the Twilight series (also very popular), it frequently ranks among the worst fantasy series ever written.  The Inheritance Cycle probably also belongs in this group.  Though popular, it did nothing for the genre in the long run.

Another series is the Book of Lost Swords.  I have not read it, but I have friends who have, and I wonder if it should be added to the "good" list.

I also see The Wheel of Time commonly ranked among the best fantasy books of all time although I personally wouldn't put it up there.  It's like a soap opera in that it is overly dramatic and often uses convoluted plot twists but unlike them it serves as a complete work.  It is really just one story told over fourteen very long parts.  That sort of plotting was the first of its kind.  I'm also not a huge fan of the Belgariad but it's on the list for the influence David Eddings had on the genre.

I agree with the Belgariad.  I read the series but was not impressed.  But it did revolutionize the genre, and its story and idea about how magic works were iconic in the 80s.  Anyone wanting to be "in the know" in fantasy should have read it.

I know what you're saying about Wheel of Time--people love it or hate it.  I'm just saying that if your goal is to tell someone what they HAVE TO READ to be "in the know" regarding fantasy, that really doesn't need to be included.  All my friends who are really into fantasy couldn't make it through the series, except that one of them has a brother who loves it.  Not having read that series won't put anyone at a disadvantage in any way, shape or form (except at a Robert Jordan convention). ;)

Now, if your point is to list the best fantasy books/series, that's actually a different point entirely, and several of these series would be omitted (such as maybe Belgariad, though teenagers love it, and MythAdventures, if you don't like that kind of humor, and maybe Conan because it is a bit dated now).  Similarly, other books/series that I left out, I would include.  It's just a different issue.  Iconic works are not always the best works.

You have an interesting topic here.  The flaw I see is that there is no limitation.  We could go on and on.  If instead you said, "What are the top 10 books/series someone should be familiar with to say they are knowledgeable about fantasy?" then I think we have something to work with.  In that case, I would list:

1) Conan (medieval/pulp icon)
2) Lord of the Rings (iconic fantasy canon)
3) Narnia (iconic children's fantasy)
4) Chronicles of Prydain (classic children fantasy)
5) Shannara (revolutionized fantasy and brought it mainstream)
6) Thomas Covenant (dark fantasy/antihero, world making (especially second series))
7) "Discworld" series (clever humor)
8) Xanth (humor, pun, classic fantasy)
9) Harry Potter (modern fantasy)
10) A Song of Ice and Fire (brutal fantasy)

Not that they have to have read every book, but should have read some of each at least.

I agree with only reading some of it being required.  Some of these are extremely lengthy metaseries with dozens of books.

I guess if I had to limit it to ten my list would be:

1. Lord of the Rings
2. Chronicles of Narnia
3. Wizard of Earthsea
4. Discworld
5. Wheel of Time
6. A Song of Ice and Fire
7. Harry Potter
8. Dresden Files
9. American Gods
10. Cosmere

I had difficulty cutting Thomas Covenant and Malazan, but I think familiarity with what made it onto the list is even more important.

There's a very good reason that they got Brandon Sanderson to finish the series when the original author died...

Brandon did have to do a lot of work but the main outline was already set in stone by Robert Jordan.  Many sections including the very last part of the final book were already written by Jordan before he passed.

Right, but what I'm saying is that Sanderson specializes in taking numerous, seemingly disparate plot points and story threads (the "drama" and "convoluted twists"), and weaving them together into something coherent and interesting to read with a definitive ending. WoT had gotten so far out of hand (originally it was only supposed to be like, 5 books or something like that, but the story kind of got away from Jordan) that it essentially needed Sanderson's particular style to finish in the number of books allotted by the publisher.

He did do a very good job with it, but it's funny because the publishers only wanted him to write one book but he ended up saying it would take three to end it satisfactorily.

Hey, he knows what he's talking about. Honestly the publishers should thank the Sanderson Avalanche that he was able to finish it up that quickly.

I'm thankful he's done with it because that means that he could go back to writing his original works... like the Stormlight Archive, the Reckoners, and possibly eventually the sequel to The Rithmatist that he's been promising for AGES.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:29, Sat 19 Sept 2015.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to that too.  He said it was taking awhile because he was doing a lot of research on Aztecs for it, and he wanted to get it right.

Is that Brandon Sanderson who wrote Mistborn?  I'm reading the Mistborn series right now.  Didn't know he finished up Wheel of Time.

Yes, it's the same guy.  He writes very quickly considering the length of many of his novels.

Not quickly enough, imho. I NEED MORE SANDERSON.

I just looked him up.  We share the same alma mater.  He was studying his bachelor's while I was in law school there.  It's possible we met.  In any case, I'm sure we studied creative writing with the same professor -- Marion "Doc" Smith.  (His focus is science fiction and fantasy writing, so anyone with any interest in that genre and writing has taken a scifi/fantasy creative writing class from him there.  I took it twice myself.)
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:44, Tue 22 Sept 2015.

In reply to Heath (msg # 414):

Funny story regarding the Myth Series: I and my kid brother had both read these books when we were much younger. We shared some fond memories of them. For some reason, I ended up discussing these books with an older friend just recently. My friend of some twenty years was a little surprised to hear the name Robert Asprin. I confirmed it, and said that I particularly enjoyed the silly book, Myth Inc. Link. My friend said, "Oh good, I'll have to tell that to Robert the next time I speak with him." It turned out that these guys knew each other from ren faire days.

Except that Asprin died a few years back...

Here's a link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Asprin
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:48, Wed 23 Sept 2015.

That article is nicely thorough. I was surprised to see mention of his S.C.A. nickname, Yang the Nauseating.

I have always been hesitant about reading the Phule's Company series. Has anyone here read any of those books?

Yes.  They are a similar style of story to the MYTH series but with a science fiction genre.  If you like MYTH, you'd like it.  Frankly, my son has read more of them than I have.

You can also get a compilation of a number of the MYTH books.  They compiled them into "volumes," which I recommend if you haven't read them before.
http://www.amazon.com/Robert-A...ords=myth+inc+asprin

Not sure if it's out of print now.  I bought the compilation when it first came out.

I was wondering why he hadn't been writing in a while.
Now I am a sad koala.

Yes, I was similarly saddened when Douglas Adams and Jack L. Chalker died.

There should be a law against letting good authors die.

On the other hand, once they stop being so good...