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Isigar vs Hill Giant.

Posted by DM SoloFor group 0
DM Solo
GM, 307 posts
Thu 18 Dec 2014
at 13:50
  • msg #7

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

OOC: You'll note that he isn't really climbing either: he's tall enough to reach the top of the structure and so can simply heave himself up (he can essentially hold the boulder and the club, reach up, momentarily let go while heaving, and grabbing hold of them as he dresses himself up.
Isigar Uldred
player, 36 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Thu 18 Dec 2014
at 15:08
  • msg #8

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

Hmm...  no, I don't think that quite works.  Yes, the giant can grab the top of the wall, but hoisting himself up to the top still requires a DC 15 Climb check (by analogy to a jump that succeeds in letting you grab a ledge - see the Jump skill description).  Climb checks for climbing require both hands.

But how about this - let's say the giant wasn't actually holding his weapons, they were stowed at his belt.  He climbs up with both hands, and now has both hands free.  Boulders count as "ammunition" for him, right?  So he can draw them from his belt as part of the standard action he is readying.  I think this gets you to where you wanted, and on that assumption, let's proceed...


Isigar nods to his elemental, and gestures at the wall.  Kaalk obediently steps through the wall to see what the giant is doing, then steps back to report.  The druid, meanwhile, sidles along the wall a few feet, and commences a melodious chanting, that breaks every now and then into a soft pattering sound like a wash of rain.

The druid, meanwhile, snaps a spell tile to release an ensorcelment of protection, and sidles along the wall a few feet.

Round 1:
  [Free] 5' step to W12 (hide check 19 if relevant)
  [Standard] Cast spell:  Cloudburst
  [Move] Keep casting
  [Standard] Snap spell tile:  Mage Armor
  [Move] --

Status:
  Initiative: 11
  AC (Touch AC): 22 (18)

  Damage Taken: 0
  Damage Dealt: 0


Effects:
Mage Armor: +4 AC
Call Lightning: potential to call lightning (5 minutes, 5 bolts)
Bull's Strength: +4 Strength (29 rounds)
Primal Instinct: +5 to Initiative, Survival (pre-cast)
Heart of Water: Swim, breathe water, invocable freedom of movement (pre-cast)

Final Position: W12

Kaalk

Round 1:
  [Standard] Move and look (only face emerges from wall on far side; improved cover)
  [Move] Move and report

Status:
  Initiative: 11
  AC (Touch AC): 21 (9)

  Damage Taken: 0
  Damage Dealt: 0


Effects:
Bull's Strength: +4 Strength (29 rounds) (shared from Isigar)
Primal Instinct: +5 to Initiative, Survival (pre-cast) (shared from Isigar)
Longstrider:  +10' movement (pre-cast) (from Isigar)

Final Position: X13, -5'
This message was last edited by the player at 15:40, Fri 19 Dec 2014.
DM Solo
GM, 310 posts
Thu 18 Dec 2014
at 15:40
  • msg #9

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

As the elemental peeks out, the giant hurls a rock that shatters against the stone structure without causing much damage. The giant picks up another boulder.

Round 2:
     [Standard] Ready action
     [Move]
     [Free]


   Status:
     Initiative: 12
     AC (Touch AC): 20 (8)

     Damage Taken:
     Damage Dealt:

   Effects:


   Final Position: DE14/15, 15' up
Isigar Uldred
player, 37 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Thu 18 Dec 2014
at 16:25
  • msg #10

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

Finishing his chant, Isigar shudders as the energies of storm course through him.  Above, a massive swirling of clouds blocks the sun, dark gray roiling with barely contained electrical forces.  In an instant, the entire arena is drenched with rain, hampering visibility and ranged attacks.

The druid gestures at Kaalk, who obediently makes a dash for the river; as for Isigar himself, he pauses briefly to snap a spell tilecast a spell at the area north of the river's course, then quickly trots across the open space and dives into the water.  As the spell takes hold, earth and stone surfaces in the arena section across the river begin to judder and jolt, making footing more difficult for anyone standing there.

The heavy rain continues to ripple across the arena's surface, completely preventing any visibility into the river. The bright sun reflects off the river's surface, making it impossible to see the druid and his companion submerged within its waters.  [Same as with those pesky crabs of yours ;P]

Cloudburst:  100-foot radius, covers arena.  50 minutes.  -4 to Spot, Search, Listen and ranged attacks.  Oh, and upgrades the lightning bolts to 3d10 instead of 3d6.
Impeding Stones:  40' radius.  5 minutes.  Reflex save DC 16 or fall prone.  If not prone, -2 on attacks.  See also Balance skill description:  the giant is flat-footed unless it has 5 ranks in Balance.

Round 2:
  [Standard] Cast spell:  Impeding Stones, centered on 10/11-G/H
  [Move] Move

Status:
  Initiative: 11
  AC (Touch AC): 22 (18)

  Damage Taken: 0
  Damage Dealt: 0


Effects:
Mage Armor:  +4 AC
Call Lightning: potential to call lightning (5 minutes, 5 bolts)
Bull's Strength: +4 Strength (28 rounds)
Primal Instinct: +5 to Initiative, Survival (pre-cast)
Heart of Water: Swim, breathe water, invocable freedom of movement (pre-cast)

Final Position: R07, -5' (swimming entirely underwater)

Kaalk

Round 2:
  [Standard] Move
  [Move] Move

Status:
  Initiative: 11
  AC (Touch AC): 21 (9)

  Damage Taken: 0
  Damage Dealt: 0


Effects:
Bull's Strength: +4 Strength (28 rounds) (shared from Isigar)
Primal Instinct: +5 to Initiative, Survival (pre-cast) (shared from Isigar)
Longstrider:  +10' movement (pre-cast) (from Isigar)

Final Position: Q09, -10' (5' below riverbed)
This message was last edited by the player at 15:53, Fri 19 Dec 2014.
DM Solo
GM, 312 posts
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 07:06
  • msg #11

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

OOC: There is a Wall of Force covering the arena, Cloudburst does not produce an effect below it. Call lightning however does function.
Isigar Uldred
player, 38 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 12:22
  • msg #12

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

OOC: It's a 100' radius emanation centered on a point 10' under the force field (20' above ground).  Just like, on a mountain, you might find yourself walking within a stormcloud, here the cloud is very close to the ground and is also raining on the ground - I don't see a logical problem with that, and nothing in the spell's text says you need to have a minimum clearance above ground level for the spell to work - it only says you need to be outdoors, which these arena definitely is (ambient light is daylight).
DM Solo
GM, 313 posts
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 12:42
  • msg #13

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

It's not that, it's the wall of force, with solid walls all around. You are not in the open. Clouds must be allowed to gather, and the wall of force prevents that.
Isigar Uldred
player, 39 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 12:47
  • msg #14

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

OOC:  So Cloudburst doesn't function at all?  Doesn't impair attacks or spot, doesn't increase effect of called lightning?  If so, I think I'll need to retroactively change my action last round to cast a different spell.
DM Solo
GM, 314 posts
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 13:02
  • msg #15

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

Not inside the arena. We are in principle indoors: wall of force even prevents passage of etheral creatures, so in a sense is more restrictive than a material wall.

You are welcome to alter your action for the last round (sorry for not looking up the conditions for cloudburst sooner).
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:03, Fri 19 Dec 2014.
Isigar Uldred
player, 40 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 13:25
  • msg #16

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

OOC:  Okay, how about this:  Last round, he snapped the spell tile (Mage Armor).  This round, in lieu of snapping the tile, he casts Impeding Stones (using the spell slot for Cloudburst, which he wouldn't have memorized if he'd known in advance that this arena is considered indoors), centered on 10/11-G/H (which triggers a reflex save in the giant, who is standing on a stone surface within the radius of the spell).  Fair?
DM Solo
GM, 315 posts
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 13:59
  • msg #17

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

Yes, go ahead and make the changes.
Isigar Uldred
player, 41 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 15:53
  • msg #18

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

OOC:  Done.
DM Solo
GM, 316 posts
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 16:35
  • msg #19

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

As the earth elemental dashes across the battlefield, the giant hurls another rock at him, narrowly missing just as Kaalk reaches the river. Then the earth shifts and shakes causing the giant to howl as he fails to maintain his balance and falls prone (ref save fail). Surveying the battlefield, the giant decides to retreat and glides down the the stone structure and moves to solid ground.

Round 3:
      [Standard] Stand (ref save 6) fails
      [Move] Climb down (13) success
      [Free]


    Status:
      Initiative: 12
      AC (Touch AC): 20 (8)

      Damage Taken:
      Damage Dealt:

    Effects:


    Final Position: prone in BC14/15
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:38, Wed 28 Jan 2015.
Isigar Uldred
player, 42 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 16:45
  • msg #20

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

The giant is prone, so...

SRD:
Crawling
You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl.


How are you calculating the DC for climbing down?
Isigar Uldred
player, 43 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 19:09
  • msg #21

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

Thinking about this one - it's a little tricky, actually, but that's fine, that's what the arena is for.  Let's start with the basics of Balance:  if you're on a problematic surface, you roll a Balance check against the relevant DC and find yourself in one of three categories:  can move at half-speed (success), can't move (fail by 4 or less), or can't move and fall prone (fail by 5 or more).

Now, the Impeding Stones spell takes a stricter approach, without the middle category:  check against the spell DC, and either you can move at half-speed (success) or you can't move and fall prone (fail).

So, what happens if you fall prone, and then use a move action to stand?  In that case, you are trying to move on a precarious surface, and I think at that point the normal, more lenient rules of the Balance skill apply - you roll a Balance check against the spell's DC, and you get the benefit of three categories:  move at half-speed, can't move, or can't move and fall prone.

What happens if you fall prone, and then use a move action to crawl 5' without standing?  Well - you are still trying to move on a precarious surface, so I think you still need to make a Balance check (there's no exception made for prone creatures).  But you get +4 bonus for having four limbs to use, like a quadruped.  If you succeed, you can move the 5' as per normal crawling, and if you fail, you just don't move (it doesn't matter whether you are deemed to "fall prone" again since you are already prone).

How does climbing figure into this?  Well, climbing is a form of movement, at 1/4 normal speed.  So, you could make a Balance check to let you move at half-speed, and climb at 1/8 of your normal base speed, presumably down to a minimum increment of 5' per move action.  Or, given that the height of the wall is within the giant's reach, you could decide to just swing down and let go...  So, without getting up from prone, if you succeed on your Balance checks you get to move two 5' squares on top of the wall's surface, at which point you're at the lip of the wall.  At that point there should either be a Climb check (with a penalty for the shaking surface) or a Balance check plus a normal, unpenalized Climb check, to allow you to drop down safely, otherwise you take some falling damage.

This is all speculative of course, especially the interaction with the Climb skill.  What do you think?  (Do you know of any firm guidance on this?)
DM Solo
GM, 317 posts
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 20:38
  • msg #22

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

The giant braces against two walls when climbing down (-10 DC).
Isigar Uldred
player, 44 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 21:15
  • msg #23

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

So, the giant crawled two squares (from 14/15-D/E to 14/15-B/C, 15' up, at the lip of the wall and bracing against the arena's boundary-wall), and now is preparing to climb down (at 1/4 normal speed, and without exposing himself to falling damage) next round?  This requires taking the position that prone characters can crawl without having to make Balance checks - I guess I'm okay with that, as long as it applies to my characters too :P

The Impeding Stones spell will force another Reflex save on Isigar's turn...  but currently the giant is not really standing on a horizontal surface, he's suspended in midair braced between two walls, so maybe he doesn't need to make a Balance/Reflex check until he actually gets to the ground and tries to stand on it...

Make sense?
DM Solo
GM, 319 posts
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 22:02
  • msg #24

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

Maybe. Being prone I figured he would slide down the side (bracing) and end up standing. I see now another balance check is likely needed. He would then move to the designated squares.

Edit: nope, still prone. He crawls towards the squares then.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:04, Fri 19 Dec 2014.
Isigar Uldred
player, 45 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Fri 19 Dec 2014
at 22:11
  • msg #25

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

Right, but I don't think he can do that this round.

Let's break his move into pieces and analyze.  He wants to get from D/E-14/15 (15' up) (call this Point A) to B/C-17/18 (ground level) (Point D).  Suppose his first priority is to get off the wall, so he wants to get to B/C-14/15 (ground level) (Point C).  But you can't cut a corner diagonally - he needs to first move fully into B/C-14/15 (15' up) (Point B), and only then can he begin to climb down.

So his full trip is:
Point A - D/E-14/15 (15' up)
Point B - B/C-14/15 (15' up)
Point C - B/C-14/15 (ground level)
Point D - B/C-17/18 (ground level)

The first part of this, from A to B, is 10'.  Since he is prone, he needs to spend a move action for each 5'.  So he exhausts his actions this round by getting to B, and only in the next round can he start to climb down.

Alternatively, he could stand up, do a Balance check, and then move at half speed (15') - this gets him to Point B but doesn't leave him enough movement to move even a single cube downwards, given that climbing is at 1/4 speed.  So it ends up putting him in the same position either way.  (But it sounds like he didn't make it through the Balance check anyway.)
DM Solo
GM, 322 posts
Wed 28 Jan 2015
at 15:38
  • msg #26

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

OOC: Updated the round three actions. You're up!
Isigar Uldred
player, 46 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Wed 28 Jan 2015
at 17:18
  • msg #27

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

OOC:  It looks like the giant moved 25' (10' to get to B/C-14/15 (15' up), and 15' to get down to ground level), with a single move action that was subject to significant speed penalties.  Am I reading the updated round three actions correctly?  If so, could you please lay out explicitly what the giant did in each stage?

It could be, for example, that you decided to overrule the maxim that you can't cut corners, based on common sense.  I'm okay with that, but I would like that to be explicit (because I want to know in what future circumstances I will be allowed to do the same).  Even cutting corners, such that you can move diagonally directly from D/E-14/15 (15' up) to B/C-14/15 (ground level), there's still 20' of movement, and climbing is at 1/4 speed.  Maybe you decided that if you climb down to a level that is above ground by a height that is no greater than your own vertical space, you can drop to the ground as a free action with no further climb check (without risking falling damage); again, I'm okay with the result but I want the ruling to be explicit because I may want to take advantage of it in the future.
DM Solo
GM, 325 posts
Wed 28 Jan 2015
at 20:44
  • msg #28

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

OOC: I'm sorry, I have to re-check positions again. I thought I had it right this time but apparantly not.
Isigar Uldred
player, 47 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Wed 4 Feb 2015
at 18:46
  • msg #29

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

OOC:  No worries.  Let me know when you're ready to proceed.
Isigar Uldred
player, 48 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Sat 6 Jun 2015
at 13:05
  • msg #30

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

OOC: Bump...
Isigar Uldred
player, 49 posts
Druid ECL 5; W/L/D: 0/0/0
Winter is Coming
Wed 26 Aug 2015
at 18:08
  • msg #31

Re: Isigar vs Hill Giant

OOC:  Appears as though the Hill Giant has either petrified or fossilized...
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