Question about twins ...

     Even Identical twins shouldn't literally be identical, that would be boring.  Growing up in different bodies they're likely to go through different experiences.  But when building them in GURPS, how different can you make them and still be logical?

     Can they have different Attributes?  I would assume that ST, DX and even HT could be slightly different, but IQ should be the same.

     Can they have different Physical Adv/Dis?  Of course one can have one arm or one eye, but can one be Fit and the other not?  Can one be Ambidextrous and the other not?  What about Honest Face?

     And should Mental Adv/Dis be the same?  Is Kleptomania learned or genetic?

The short answer to all those questions; however much your GM will allow. :)

Okay, that’s probably a cop-out answer. As far as attributes go, you should probably determine a base for both of them and not vary them by much more than a point or two. It wouldn’t be realistic for one twin to have an 8 ST and the other an 18...but, if you decide on a base of 12, and give one twin an 11 and the other one a 14 it’s believable. There could be extreme possibilities, like if one’s a bodybuilder and the other a shiftless lay-about, but beyond that the attributes should be close. Even IQ could vary by a point or two without being unbelievable.

Physical advantage can vary, and some can’t, for obvious reasons. Appearance, obviously, should be the same. Unless one has had some permanent scarring or such. Or, in a modern or later setting, plastic surgery to improve their looks. But, again, those are extreme circumstances -- generally, identical twins should look, well, identical. As for other physical advantages/disadvantages? As a rule of thumb, I’d say if it can be picked up after character creation, it would be something that could vary between them. Most GM’s would probably allow you to buy Fit later on, but few would allow Ambidextrous, for example.

Metal ads and disads? Again, I’d say if it can be picked up after character creation, go for it. I dunno about Kleptomania; but it can be cured, so if one twin has it and not the other, you could probably get away with saying the latter got it cured with therapy. Things like phobia’s, obviously can vary; and I’d say character traits (impulsive, honest, stubborn, etc.) can definitely vary.

Mental ads/disads may vary, but if they've had the same life experiences they should have quite a few of them in common. On the other hand a trip to the zoo could give one arachnaphobia while the doesn't care.

So basically I agree with Sock.

     That's what I figured.  I just wanted a second opinion.  Thanks!

Remember that identical twins are only truly identical until the zygote has split.  From that point on, even in the womb, there may be different environmental circumstances that can alter a person.  Their genetic code may forever be identical, but that doesn't mean that one isn't different from another - my cousins seldom agree on many things, and their personalities are quite different.

As for nature vs nurture, I don't think anyone's definitively proven which types of personality types or disorders are positively genetic and which are learned... have they?  If so, I may have to stop blaming my parents for all my shortcomings!

Nature vs. nurture is a very argued-about thing; in the game, basically, you can decide which one wins. My opinion is that you can do whatever you want. Look at the movie 'Twins' for example, where Arnold Swarzenager and Danny Devito are identical twins, and you get the idea. Of course, this was a comedy, and if you want to keep it even a little bit serious, they should be a lot more alike, to a minimum of appearance. But, ambidexterity can be learned IRL; so can a lot of the advan tages I wouldn't let PCs take after creation. It's just real, real, hard. My wife taught herself to be ambidextrous, but she's been doing it consciously from about the time she started writing, and (despite her claims) still isn't perfectly ambidextrous. Perhaps it's more along the lines of the off-hand training maneuver...

An even better cinematic example might be Raising Cain, with Jon Lithgow.  He played identical twin brothers whose father had raised them in an experiment to see how far he could differentiate them from each other through extreme environmental influences.

This is not specifically 4e but I'll post it here anyway.. lol

We'll say this is for a fantasy setting just to be specific.  What are your opinions on using monetary units (such as farthing, crown, and others such as that) instead of using the default dollars and cents?  It seems to be a minor detail but I can see where it would bring a certain feel to a game if they were used.  On the other hand, I can see where they could be distraction, albeit a minor one I think.

I like the idea of getting away from calling money by dollars and cents - or even "gold pieces" games like DnD - but you're right, it can be a pain IF you have to convert things as opposed to just remember a different name for them.  The best examples of this that I've seen were very simple and fairly obvious for the players.

Of course, it only makes a difference to me in a game that is focused on a high level of detail and incorporates a number of elements to try and envelope the player in the setting.  In a more action oriented game it makes no difference to me.

If I wanted to make a detailed game setting like that, my first question would be if the players would get into it and enjoy it. Assuming they would, the real question is the conversion factor. An easy conversion is to $1 is 1 Gold Piece and run with it.

A more difficult conversion can be seen in GURPS Swashbucklers, where money is listed for each of five different countries, and the all have strange numbers, such as 1 Silver Real (pronounced ray-all) = $2.50, and some smaller denominations equaled $.08, and so forth. It would be great fun for some groups to track what kind of coins they have in the different currencies and worry about how to convert it- or if their money would be accepted in the next town. For other groups, it might be a pain in the butt.

I tend to favor that kind of detail on a play-by-post game like RPoL more than I do at the table, due to how much it can slow down tabletop play.

So my opinion is find out how much detail you and your players like and then build a system that suits you.

Again, GURPS comes up with the most complicated... ah, I mean, realistic way to handle something!

Only because FGU is out of business . . . (Aftermath, Flashing Blades, Bushido, etc.)

     I have dozens of GURPS books but I've never REALLY played a full game in GURPS yet (pathetic, I know), so maybe this is an old, simple question.

     In craps (using 2d6) when someone rolls two '1's they call it snake-eyes.  When they roll two '6's they call it boxcars.

     So the question is; Do any of you have a term for rolling three '1's or three '6's?

     Boxcars still kinda works for 18, but since that's already used then maybe it could be something like 'Full Train'.

I don't know - I've always just called three 1's 'damn lucky' and three 6's a 'damn shame'... but I'm sure there's something more imaginative out there.

Called three 1's 'mutant eyes' in some of my groups, but that's just a house thing and never really heard it anywhere else... Three 6's were always 'Aw, crap'... :-P

I've never had any special names for either one.

One thing I've always enjoyed about GURPS is that criticals are more rare, and a crit with a good result is even more rare, than other games with flat probabilities, such as D20. It makes them a bit more special when they happen.

It seems that way, but it's somewhat illusory (at least for "any crit" -- "crit with a good result" may still stand).  A critical in GURPS comes on a 3 or 4 for anybody, and 5 in many cases.  The probability of a 3 or 4 is 4/216, or 1/54.  In D&D3.5, that's almost as likely as a natural twenty with a 13 or better needed to confirm (1/20 * 8/20 = 8/400 = 1/50).

If you add a 5 to the chance of critical in GURPS, it's 10/216, or 2.5 times as likely (which, ignoring the critical effect roll, is nearly the same as D&D's 1/20 chance of an automatic hit).

This geekery brought to you by the numbers 20 and 6.

LOL!  But which one was the number of the day?!

     Wow.  And you didn't even use the bell curve diagram.

Wonder if Sock puppet can do one of those in a preformatted text pic? ;)

Dont you have to look at it as dices and not numbers?
a one * a one * a one or two
(1/6)*(1/6)*(1/3) = 1/108 chance for a critial

I took some shortcuts.

Take a red, a black, and a white die:

You can get a 3 one way: R1B1W1.

You can get a 4 three ways; R1B1W2, R1B2W1, or R2B1W1.

So there are four ways out of the 6^3=216 combinations to get a 3 or a 4.

Anyone willing to run a 4e Pirates game?

MMmmm... Pirates!

Good stuff!

Yes... anyone?

I *heart* Pirates, but I don't have time to run a game at the moment. I'm sorry.