The Lounge II.   Posted by Mad Mick.Group: 0
Tortuga
 player, 456 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 04:03
Re: Party of Many
Not what books, what tropes. What elements.
Rockwolf66
 player, 22 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 04:43
Re: Party of Many
Right off you have "Ragtag Bunch of Misfits". I mean Have you ever seen a Cyberpunk group get along even if they are "Family"?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmw...RagtagBunchOfMisfits

TV tropes has an entire list of Cyberpunk tropes some of which will fit.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmw...Main/CyberpunkTropes

And then there is

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmw...ain/BornUnderTheSail

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OceanPunk

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Pirate

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CoolBoat

the Anime "Black Lagoon" has some elements that work.
Tortuga
 player, 457 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 06:03
Re: Party of Many
Yeah, so what do you guys, as potential Players, consider essential to a cyberpunk pirates game?
Jobe00
 player, 10 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 06:12
Re: Party of Many
Cyberware, punks, and piracy?
BlueDwarf
 player, 67 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 08:49
Re: Party of Many
In reply to Jobe00 (msg # 929):

That sounds like a marine version of GURPs Shadowrun...
Argo Navis
 player, 2 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 11:04
Re: Party of Many
Tortuga:
Not what books, what tropes. What elements.


As i said for me it would be plausibility of the setting in terms of whether piracy can reasonably exist under the given scenario.

I mean once you strip it of all its trappings pirate is really  just another word for mugger. They are criminals with a profit motive who assault and murder people, en mass, for their possessions. As a viable business model that requires a few basic preconditions.

1)  Enough economic activity. Unless the society they prey upon produces 
sufficient wealth to make stealing it  worth risking your life there is 
really no point in being a pirate.

2) A market. Popular fiction notwithstanding most of what a pirate can
expect to seize in terms of loot will not be cash or other forms of 
liquid, anonymous wealth. That means there has to be a way to fence 
their victims former posessions for legal tender. That in turn implies a 
legitimate country willing to act as a laundromat for stolen bulk 
cargoes, be it as  a weapon of economic warfare against its rivals, for 
a share of the take, or both.

3) A safe haven. Pirate vessels, be they spaceships, zeppelins, or 
drakkar need maintenance, and provisions, and  their crews a place to 
actually be able to spend any of their illgotten gains. That means a 
port or rather ports able and willing to provide both in defiance of 
whatever authorities the pirates have offended with their activities. 
Usually that takes the form of (as above) a state actor extending the 
cover of its souvereignity because its a cheap or even profitable way to 
damage their rivals without officially going to war, or augmenting your 
forces if you already are at war.

Alternatively you'd need an extended period of anarchy or military 
overextension where none of the legitimate countries has the forces to
spare to suppress local warlords and prevent them from renting out their 
infrastructure to the raiders for a cut.

4) Being a livable evil. Pirates are parasites. If their predations 
destroy the economic  base of the country whose ships and towns they 
attack they kill off the very host their own livelihood depends upon. No 
profit, no trade; no trade, no loot; no loot, no pirates.

If pirates are an existential threat rather than a calculated, and 
calculable, risk to the movement of wares and people it also tends to 
make eradicating piracy a political priority, which historically spells 
the end for the pirates in fairly short order as the bases they depend 
upon get captured or razed (Shing Shi is the only example i can recall 
where the pirates arguably won that sort of full on confrontation, and 
even she ultimately decided to cash in her chips and make a deal while 
she was ahead).
Tortuga
 player, 458 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 15:39
Re: Party of Many
It's the question of real piracy vs romantic movie piracy. Muggers of the sea vs traders/explorers/privateers/revolutionaries/adventurers in floating democracies.

This tone is an important distinction. Are they pirates because CRIME or because FREEDOM?
Jobe00
 player, 11 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 16:14
Re: Party of Many
In reply to BlueDwarf (msg # 930):

There was an SR3 book called Cyberpirates!...
Argo Navis
 player, 3 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 19:27
Re: Party of Many
Tortuga:
It's the question of real piracy vs romantic movie piracy. Muggers of the sea vs traders/explorers/privateers/revolutionaries/adventurers in floating democracies.

This tone is an important distinction. Are they pirates because CRIME or because FREEDOM?


Hey it could be both you knpwRobin H. Sherwood: anarcho-syndicalist domestic terrorist and tax-evader, or patriotic political dissident and tireless defender of the anglo-saxon working class against exploitation by the norman imperialists? (-:
Tortuga
 player, 459 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 19:33
Re: Party of Many
Sure, it could be, but I'm less interested in possibility than in what people actually want to play. There are a lot more variables and potential frameworks in a cyberpunk piracy game than a golden-age piracy game.

So let's narrow that down from "what could a pirate game be" to "what is this pirate game going to be."
Aethulred
 player, 76 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 20:48
Re: Party of Many
I should point out that for many early Dutch traders, the difference in being a Merchant and being a Pirate was opportunity ... If you can take the goods from a trader coming back from the Far East and go back to Europe with them, it saves you a long trip! The reason East Indiamen of several nations were well armed.
Argo Navis
 player, 4 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 21:46
Re: Party of Many
Tortuga:
So let's narrow that down from "what could a pirate game be" to "what is this pirate game going to be."


Perhaps start with something even more specific and go from there: "What type of piracy? Land, sea, air, space, cyberspace, or submarine?".

This message was last edited by the player at 22:08, Tue 07 Mar 2017.

KingHenryBlack
 player, 3 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 22:23
Re: Party of Many
quote:
Perhaps start with something even more specific and go from there: "What type of piracy? Land, sea, air, space, cyberspace, or submarine?".


"Submarine piracy" - Now there's something you don't hear of every day...
Aethulred
 player, 77 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 22:27
Re: Party of Many
You surface and tell them to take to the life boats ... then grab the ship with a prize crew and go elsewhere. Probably work best in a war zone where other submarines are sinking the merchants for real.
krusher
 player, 25 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 22:48
Re: Party of Many
Hmmm. Putting this within the Reign of Steel world could work.

Capturing AI Ships to cannibalize for your own ship. Escorting humans from a dangerous zone to a "Safe" zone. And as a bonus, it works with all the different types, Land, Sea, Air, Space, Cyberspace and submarine.

Then attacking and boarding another vessel isn't about crime, it's about survival.
Argo Navis
 player, 5 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 23:03
Re: Party of Many
In reply to Aethulred (msg # 939):

Or you have underwater settlements in pressuredomes with freightersubs shuttling cargo and passengers between them.

http:/www.hisutton.com/Unbuilt_Russian_Spy_Subs.html
Aethulred
 player, 78 posts
Tue 7 Mar 2017
at 23:54
Re: Party of Many
In reply to Argo Navis (msg # 941):

But Hijacking a submerged submarine would be a trick!
BlueDwarf
 player, 68 posts
Wed 8 Mar 2017
at 00:09
Re: Party of Many
In reply to Aethulred (msg # 942):

I believe some current navies have planned for it...
Witchycat
 player, 72 posts
 Furry Kitty with
 a witch's hat
Wed 8 Mar 2017
at 00:57
Re: Party of Many
There is also the issue of Piracy versus Privateer, where a Privateer has some legal status. But then there needs to be a war going on, not like that would ever happen in a cyberpunk game.
Tortuga
 player, 460 posts
Wed 8 Mar 2017
at 01:20
Re: Party of Many
Premise: Players are a crew of deniable assets supplied by a shipping and transport line to prey upon its competitors in international waters. They pick their targets carefully, chase them down, and sink them, salvaging what they can.

PCs will be given their own vessel and let loose to cause whatever corporate sabotage they can manage, with the understanding that if they're caught they're on their own. Support from their employers will be extremely minimal, but so will their demands, as long as shipping is disrupted.
Argo Navis
 player, 6 posts
Wed 8 Mar 2017
at 07:58
Re: Party of Many
In reply to Tortuga (msg # 945):

What would be the TL? In a modern setting that sort of highseas hijinx runs into the proliferation of sattelites, radar, planes, radio etc. making it possible to track and run down any marine vessel. Unless there is a culture of 'legitimate' pirates with protected safehavens/no-go zones that prohibit pursuit for them to  blend into the players aren't going to last very long.

I believe the last time anybody managed to successfully pull off a lone wolf piracy/commerce raider campaign was count Felix v. Luckner during WWI, and that required both an incredible amount of personal skill and the devil's own luck on his part.
Tortuga
 player, 461 posts
Wed 8 Mar 2017
at 13:55
Re: Party of Many
TL is 9. You don't need skill, you don't need luck, you just need waters belonging to a nation with a small navy that lacks the resources or inclination to go after you for raiding transport that just so happens to be passing through. West Africa, the Indian Ocean, Persian Gulf.
Aethulred
 player, 79 posts
Wed 8 Mar 2017
at 18:03
Re: Party of Many
Who would be GMing this?
Argo Navis
 player, 7 posts
Wed 8 Mar 2017
at 23:14
Re: Party of Many
In reply to Tortuga (msg # 947):

Speaking of nations, thirdworld and otherwise would this be set in a straight(-ish) extrapolation of our own present except for some more advanced tech (i.e. Flight of the Wild Geese 2050), or a fullblown Gibson/Sterling/Williams alternate reality complete with corporate states and fashion sense that was cryogenically frozen in 1983?
Tortuga
 player, 462 posts
Wed 8 Mar 2017
at 23:29
Re: Party of Many
It would be an extrapolation of modern geopolitics, possibly with a bit of a random curve thrown in for the fun of it to represent unpredictable events. Early 2000's predictions of a BRIC dominance are not really panning out - India's growth has slowed, and both Russia and China are in recessions. Goldman Sach thinks Mexico will become one of the world's top economies by 2050, and South Korea is doing very well, so MITKA (Mexico, Indochina, South Korea, Australia)'s economic coalition might be the force to be reckoned with.

This message was last edited by the player at 23:29, Wed 08 Mar 2017.