Time for a new one of these.  Use the Lounge to talk about anything that doesn't belong in any of the other threads.

Did anyone see the 2016 SJ Games Report to the Stakeholders?  Munchkin is doing well, but their GURPS output is hurting.

Here's the report:  http://www.sjgames.com/general/stakeholders/

GURPS has been subsidized by Munchkin since Munchkin was released.

In reply to Mad Mick (msg # 1):

That's too bad. I thought the Dungeon Kickstarter was going to change all that.

   Sad, indeed. Seems like you might as well rename "Stave Jackson Games" to "Munchkin, Inc."

   Looked into the whole thing, wasn't really impressed with it. Looks like I'll have to look online and raid the FLGS when they've got something.

It's like Hasbrow bought WotC for Magic and got DnD along with the deal, so DnD's entire dev team is three guys working in a closet.

I think the delay of Dungeon Fantasy was a painful misstep.



Also, despite the fact that I do enjoy Dungeon Fantasy (and I own virtually all of it), sometimes I ponder if it were a different direction than what a potentially larger fanbase may have desired.

I believe that dungeon fantasy (the genre; not the product) tropes are among the most popular.  However,I am uncertain if the Dungeon Fantasy power level and style was necessarily what was desired.  One of the

This is strictly my own opinion, but I base it upon what I see around me and how I've watched both D&D (and Pathfinder) evolve over the past few editions.  I also base it upon what the reasons were for me, as an individual, deciding to buy into GURPS.  While I love fantasy and "dungeon fantasy" tropes, themes, archetypes, and stories, a lot of the issues I've had with D&D were why I wanted to play a different system.

-I loved D&D 3rd Edition at the time I was playing it.  The amount of options and cool ideas was awesome.  Unfortunately, not all of the options which looked cool on paper were actually cool in actual play because of flaws in the rules.  The power curve between levels was often too sharp, and the difference of one or two levels could be drastic.  In theory, I could do things like build a castle, have followers, or be a knight on a horse, but the reality of how the game worked turned actually attempting to do those things into nonsense; any castle I'd build or army I would lead would be virtually worthless against any of the threats I'd face as a higher-level character.  High levels too often turned into what I've seen other people call "rocket tag" - meaning that fights turned into a race to see which side could land a "save or die/suck" spell or an epic attack. Don't get me wrong, I still had a lot of years of fun with the game, but there were things I wanted to do -both as a player and a world builder- which I did not feel worked well with the system.

-I had a love/hate relationship with D&D 4th Edition.  Some of the changes from 3rd to 4th were things I thought were awesome.  The lessened power curve between levels was nice; it meant that -as a DM- the party gaining a level or two didn't necessarily mean that I had to re-write my entire campaign.  I also (to the dismay of many others) actually really liked the lore and cosmology of 4th Edition; it felt epic and mythological.  The whole "points of light" from the preview books was cool.  However, it was my experience that "points of light" as an idea did not really make sense in the context of 4E rules; the game very quickly started to feel more like a super-hero game wearing a fantasy disguise.  While the individual characters were closer in power to each other than their 3rd Edition counterparts, the enemies and monsters often failed miserably to provide a challenge which lived up to what the fluff claimed.  While later books started to fix this, the edition was already starting to draw to a close.  Even had it been fixed, some parts of the rules still clashed with the style of game I wanted to play and run.  There came a point when I felt as though my 4th Edition characters were essentially immune to the world around them.  I eventually came to enjoy 4th Edition, but I came to enjoy it because -at this point- I had started to play GURPS and accepted that the two systems were meant for different styles of play.

-I bought GURPS 4th Edition after looking through the books at a local gaming store.  I liked that it had the possibility of options like D&D 3rd Edition, but I could also enjoy the lessened power curve between levels that D&D 4th had because GURPS had no levels at all.  Even in a fantasy game with crazy powers and monsters, I could still build a world in which things made sense to me.  The "high level" GURPS fighter might very well be able to fight several guys at a time, but he still wasn't fighting entire armies by himself (unless that's the type of game I wanted).  As a player-character, investing in allies and property made sense because those things weren't so easily outpaced by number inflation.  The easiest example is the classic trope of a knight on horseback.  In D&D 3rd Edition, having a horse turned into a liability because basically anything I'd be fighting with a high level character could likely kill my horse even with an ability which my horse saved against and took half-damage from.  In 4th, the game was built in such a way that my character should trade my horse in for something else as levels progressed.

I'm starting to ramble; I apologize.

What I'm getting at is that I think Dungeon Fantasy sometimes tries too hard to mimic other game systems.  While I see the value of that, I also think that GURPS has some advantages over those systems which start to get lost with DF.  There comes a point when it starts to feel a little like the D&D 3e "rocket tag" again; monsters and PCs are trying to land a killing blow.  Either an attack does nothing or it does everything.  The other issue I've found is that there comes a point when it's difficult to have the world still make sense.  If I'm wearing uber-magical-armor that no weapon can penetrate, do I care that the local town guard doesn't like what I'm doing?

I think the general concept of DF is fantastic, but I think a more grounded approach, an approach which used the strengths of GURPS as a system to world-build a setting which "makes sense," would have been a better approach.  You could still have templates for the various jobs and races and monsters just like you do now, but build all of those things as part of a world instead of building them as a set of things which levels-up beyond what the baseline world can ever hope to touch.  By all means, have epic heroes fighting multiple foes at a time and being head and shoulders above the common man, but find a way for them to still feel as though they are attached to the world in which they live.

I look at what D&D 5th Edition turned into, and I feel as though my view isn't so crazy.  There are many aspects of it which I do not enjoy, but I think the basic mentality behind the early design of it is at least in a similar ballpark to what I'm talking about.  (Some of the newer products are breaking from the mold and it's starting to feel as though some old problems are creeping back into the product, but that's a different conversation.)

My point is that I think GURPS should have embraced what makes it different and used the strengths inherent in the system rather than trying so hard to mimic how other games worked.  Yes, have the DF tropes, character types, monsters, and everything else, but ground it all in the aspects of GURPS which influenced me to buy GURPS.

I'll add to my previous statement that I do not know what the final product of Dungeon Fantasy looks like yet.  So it could be something with a significantly different tone than what I've seen up to this point.

I think the issue is this: You may like something different than DF. (And believe me, I really, really like things different than DF). But DF outsells the other GURPS products. Back when e23 had best selling lists, DF always topped the lists, but a LOT more than the other GURPS releases.

I find it depressing since that is not the style of play I prefer and not what I think is so great about GURPS, but it seems as if there are a lot of buyers who do want exactly that...so it makes sense that is what they'd aim for. Maybe if DF does really well they can then throw some bones to those of us who like other styles.

I actually do like DR.

Though, I'd prefer something similar to DR, but a few notches more "real" (for a lack of better words).

I suppose what I'm clumsily trying to say is that I'd like DF ideas, but without the number inflation.  Somewhere between what Banestorm is and what DF is is a sweet spot that suits me best.   I don't know how to express it though.

I don't see the beetle-people from DF used very often.

Have you had players choose them in your games?

As a GM, do you have a place for them in your worlds?

The Coleopterans aren't in the DFRPG... so that's something.  I did see them in the occasional online game, usually as a 'gimmick' character; ie the four-sword Swashbuckler, or double shield wielding sword and mace fighter.

Never saw them in any game I ran.

I created one as a NPC in a DF game I ran.  The party was looking to hire a few people to round out the party, and I randomly rolled for race/profession to create a few.

Surprisingly, that NPC became one of the more popular characters from the campaign.  He fought with a polearm in one set of hands and bow & arrow in the other set of hands.

I've toyed with the idea of a Coleopteran martial-artist a few times, but it's hard to squeeze in the point cost of playing one.

I had a Coleopteran Swashbuckler in my DF game.  She was around for six years.  Enough XP to have four attacks, four fine sabers, and a pretty decent skill plus Luck.

She was a pretty impressive character right up until the end.

*steps in and waves hello*

New player to GURPS and such. Hello all.

Welcome to the show, Johnny.

Hell mushroom!

In reply to Lord_Johnny (msg # 16):

Hey Johnny. What games pique your interest?

Well...a lot, to be honest. I'm not quite sure if you meant which system setting you mwant, or just GURPS related. I have to be honest, I don't have any of the books yet (mostly a matter of timing to be honest),  but I like everything from medieval settings to sci-Fi to economic games to super villan games. (I say villan because how often I play the NG good character type which is what I am closest to in RL).

In reply to Lord_Johnny (msg # 18):

Oh OK. There are a number of games running that are suitable for newbies, who can help you even without the books. Northport is a good one for dungeon fantasy, and I run a couple for modern/future settings (One in the Traveller universe, one in modern day Shadowrun and one Post-Apoc.). Then there are a few others I am in that also want new players, but if you type in GURPs as the system into the search engine, you will get a few.

Most games seem pretty quiet at the moment as folk are busy in RL, and this will probably stay that way until after January, based on history. That means it would probably be a good time to take your time and get set up, perhaps with a small solo-adventure for you to get the hang of the system, for whatever game interest you.

*nods sagely as he heeds the wisdom* Do you know anyone who'd be willing to do a solo adventure?

Depends.  =)  I'd be happy to run a quick one-shot for you if you like.  What are you looking for?

I'd volunteer to play in that, but then it wouldn't be a solo adventure, would it?

In reply to Mad Mick (msg # 21):

Don't care really. Kind of have a villain in my head at the moment. Wants to do a bit of the taking over the world idea. He'd still be in the "knocking up the local gas station" level of stuff. Or maybe some action in space, or anything else. I'm not too picky.

GURPS Lite is free online... just do a search. It gives you the basics of the system.

Yeah, Apparently I already have Gurps Lite, and Ultra Tech and "Complete skills alphabetical".

In reply to Lord_Johnny (msg # 25):

If you wanted I could do a solo adventure in one of the existing games as a prelude for your character. Or Mad Mick can do one for you, as he mentioned. Or perhaps a not-so-solo one!

I'm good either way. I'd be good with a small party, probably not more than 3 though, just so I'm not getting too much at once. Slow learner at times.

In reply to Lord_Johnny (msg # 27):

Well, why don't you give us a run down of what you are looking for, and we can look for a fit?

I'm happy for BlueDwarf to run your adventure.  =)  I'm still mulling over running a Middle Earth game at some point.

A thematic game set in Middle Earth sounds like it could be a lot of fun.

I would definitely be interested in something like that.

In reply to Anachronist (msg # 30):

DF style, Mick?

Probably not DF.  =)  I don't know if I'll go through with it, but it will be more straight-up GURPS Fantasy if I do.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:53, Sat 21 Oct 2017.

In reply to BlueDwarf (msg # 28):

Okay, games I'm interested in at the moment.

1. Middle Earth, but not doing the ring thing. I feel that has been played out a LOT. If want it to be completely seperate from the trilogy.
2. Space game. Could be exploration, empire building, saving the world. Don't care honestly.
3. Somewhat similar to 1, a medieval fantasy sounds awesome.

In reply to Lord_Johnny (msg # 32):

2 and three I can help with.

2. Space Game:

link to another game

This is a GURPs: Traveller games, set in the Interstellar wars period.

3. Medieval Fantasy. I would suggest Northport, run by Gwythaint

link to another game

If is Dungeon Fantasy, and he runs several parties simultaneously!

I will leave option 1 in Mad Micks hands, as he sounds like he has that under control!

I suggest reading through the games to see the GM's style, and looking at all the options you can before deciding which seems most interesting and asking to join.

In reply to BlueDwarf (msg # 33):

Ummm, have to admit to being a bit intimidated by all the information to look through on those. That's a lot of info to be soaking in at once. Apologies, but I think I shall have to pass on those. Pass like a kidney stone maybe, but pass nonetheless.

In reply to Lord_Johnny (msg # 34):

Lol, I was not suggesting reading through ALL of them, but just some of the gameplay threads to get a feel for the game. The rules can be covered later...

For instance these two threads are parts 1 and 2 of one adventure (in progress) that Blue Dwarf and I play in.... I recommend them as I'm very prone to posting a bit of the rules behind what I'm doing in my OOC notes in my posts.

Part 1:
link to a message in another game

Part 2:
link to a message in another game

Welcome Johnny!

You'll find that there is as much variety in GURPS as there is on just about all of the RPOL website, from steampunk to space to the traditional high fantasy.  It's all about finding a GM that meshes with your posting style and the way you want to play.  This board is generally the best place to go, as the Players Wanted doesn't often score a GURPS hit and almost never a solo game.  Good luck in finding a GM to warm up to the system!

In reply to evileeyore (msg # 36):

You know, that was actually pretty helpful, as it's given me an idea that's probably pretty overplayed but interesting to me.

(I'll have to go back over it in more detail later)


I'd like a high fantasy game set in the modern time, with the world of magic being secret and hidden from most of humanity. In the fantasy side of things, you have all the various races and such, but again, all of it hidden.

Sounds to me like a Monster Hunters type game is up your alley.

In reply to Zoncxs (msg # 39):

Yep. Most similar I know of are both shadowrun type games, which I don't htink are they type of game you are looking for.

*shrug* I'd be good with Hunting Monsters. I'd be good with a bit of the Harry Potter idea too, with a whole world, not just monsters, that most don't know about. Hidden fortresses and such.

I recently picked up After The End (both pdfs).  Good stuff.

Have any of you tried using it with other products?

In reply to Johnny Angel (msg # 42):

Running one game with it (inherited after the original GM left.) What other things did you have in mind?

After The End + Action seems like a natural fit.

In general, I've just been wondering how well the concepts and ideas in After The End might  cross over into other genres.

More specifically, I've been toying with the idea of trying to run a Post-apocalyptic fantasy game.   I don't feel as though Dungeon Fantasy really fits what I have in mind though.

In reply to Johnny Angel (msg # 44):

No, something more along the Shadowrun genre seems a better fit...

I'm playing in a post-apocalyptic fantasy game right now inspired by the old Thundarr the Barbarian cartoons, although it's on hiatus.  Society has regressed and magic has been rediscovered.  After the End would be a great addition.

Thundarr is something similar to what I had in mind.

Merry Christmas folks :)

Mele Kalikimaka me ka Hauoli Makahiki Hou ...

聖誕快樂!  Sing daan faai lok!
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:12, Mon 25 Dec 2017.

Blessed Yule everyone

Guys, did you know that there's a GURPS supplement for Mars Attacks?

Ack ack ack! :)

Yeah!  The book I'd love to use is the GURPS Discworld book.  =)

At this stage, I'd be happy to use GURPS for anything...

Anyone interested in GMing something? Right now, I'm all for spies, conspiracies, as well as horror (even Atomic Horror)...

Sounds like fun.  =)  I tend to stick with fantasy, sci-fi, and modern fantasy, but an Atomic Horror game sounds cool.  I've long wanted to play a modern-day Highlander game.  It would be fun to have flashbacks to the past, maybe with the degree of success or failure in the past influencing the present.

Hey, fantasy or sci-fi, I'd be up for it, too!

In reply to Varsovian (msg # 56):

Have you checked out existing games?

There *are* existing GURPS games here on RPOL?

Also, I admit that I have trouble joining existing games... And I prefer solo games in general...

Yes, there are a number of current games, including at least two that have more than 10k posts.  =)  Most games do tend to be group games, although there are solo games from time to time.  I'm in three active GURPS games right now, and I found two of those GMs soon after I joined RPOL nine years ago (and one of those games is still running).  Both games had already started when I joined them, too, so I've had good success with joining games already in motion.

In reply to Mad Mick (msg # 59):

I also run three games here, two of which have over 6k posts, though 2 have gone quiet (and hece open themselves to solo adventures of new players.) Type in GURPs in the game system of the search engine, should bring them all up...

I also play in 5 others...

Someone else just posted in GMs Wanted that they would like to play in a GURPS: Mars Attacks game, too.  There's definitely interest in one!

Yes, I've seen that ad... I'd tempted to GM it, but this setting really is tricky and demands good writing chops. I'd prefer to play in this setting first...

The Lord hates a quitter ... take a shot at it...

If Lord hates a quitter, *you* take a shot at it ;)

Sorry, I just don't care ... I'm running two and playing in a bunch ... so I'm not a quitter, I'm not a starter!

Is there a setting/terrain type which you feel is underutilized in fantasy games?

I often see campaigns set in the harsh and cold North of a campaign setting or in a temperate forested pseudo-Europe.


...or games in general?


I was thinking about this today, after a conversation with a friend about post-apocalyptic games.  Those particular games tend to be set in wastelands and/or deserts.  I commented that I think a game loosely based on the concept of the movie Waterworld could be fun and different.

In my experience terrain is often a little too "familiar", a little too safe no matter what latitude the setting is based in.

Even relatively mundane wilderness can be really hazardous to the unprepared...maps seem commonplace, weather is rarely an issue, and the seasons rarely change.

I get it, nobody wants to have a character starve to death when the bridge gets washed out and they have to find a way around...losing a character in an avalanche is not generally considered fair.

But it does add an element of realism and excitement that I tend to enjoy.

I'd love to create a fantasy RP set in a warm area such as Greece etc. So that everybody wears sandals, tunics etc. And I could make all of it feel more... ancient than medieval.

I tried but couldn't keep a group together ... but I'll take some blame as I was trying various game ideas out ... I'll play if you choose to run it.

In reply to Aethulred (msg # 69):

Likewise. I was in that game till the end too. Perhaps a desert feel?

Yes and Icky Witch or Pretty kitty or what ever her handle is... Witchy Kat... that's it... she played in that game and might also be interested.

In reply to Aethulred (msg # 71):

Ichy Witch? Oh please.

Yes Varsovian, I would be interested. If you put it in the Mediterranean, you have Greece and islands and desert area to the south.

And I was so careful to avoid some of the less proper possibilities ... it would be easy to substitute a B for the W and be mean ... but you have never been so with any of us in the last ... what, 7 years now?  You are a good gaming companion... whom I enjoy teasing on occasion.

Oh wow, I suddenly find myself with a group of willing players, even though I have no idea what that game I mentioned might be about!

*blushes*

Well Thrace and the Northern Black Sea were Greek areas of control and trade, then there is Greece proper and Sicily, which was Greek held at this point, along with most all of the Dodecanese Islands.

Hmm. Actually, if I were to create such a setting, I'd go for something *inspired* by ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt etc., not these places exactly. I was more thinking of the feel, you know?

Fine by me...

In reply to Varsovian (msg # 76):

That's fine by my. I have the old Zena game around here and use to like it. Now oyu can just throw in some Conan too.

Yup ... or Red Sasha or Scarlet O'Hara or... ;-)

Red Sonja would be fun with a magical bikini armor.

You don't like her little sister Red Sasha?

Oh, that would be fine. Red Sasha.

Gonna run my next game in part as an "Intro to GURPS"/"GURPS Tutorial" (though experienced players are of course welcome as well.) Anything you guys think I should make sure to cover?

Aye, the GURPS lot are a pretty tight knit little community. Good folk though!

I'm trying to lure more players into it. ;)

Yeah most GURPS people are good folks. I've only met one who IMO needs to french kiss a speeding freight train. The rest have for the most part been great.

Between trying to run a game and joining the GURPS discord channel I've been learning a lot about the system. Yeah, I went from playing in a small number of games to running one.

I wish my game had more people in it. I kind of have this idea of having enough people for a second GM and having my small game turn into more of a community thing. Then again last year was horrible for me.

In the beginning, I think early adventures should highlight some of the more common rolls: quick contests, margin of success/failure, and the idea that not all actions take the same amount of time (i.e. firing a bow might take several turns).  When/if something like that comes up, it might not be a bad idea to highlight what is going on in mechanical terms in a sidebar or spoiler text or something... just until people get the hang of the rules and have actual examples to look at.

It depends upon the genre, but rate of fire and stuff like that might be something to cover.

Howdy folks.

So, I've been really feeling two-fisted action-adventure in the Pulp style. I've always enjoyed the setting, but I dunno, lately it's like I can't get enough of the stuff. Indiana Jones, Tales of the Gold Monkey, Talespin... more recently, Archer: Danger Island, you know the stuff.

Knowing the best way to get a ball rolling is to push it yourself, my first thought was to put together a campaign of my own. Thing is, I've never tried my hand at this kind of setting, so I figured I'd ask around here for some pointers.

What resources should I look for? In terms of GURPS books and Pyramid Magazines, what's essential, what's handy, and what's overrated?

As far as the setting goes, what would you want to see as a player? Please don't think of this as an RTJ, I'm a million miles away from that point, but if you were to play in a pulp adventure what would you most want to do, and what you not be interested in?

And then there's inspiration. I'd consider myself an armchair fan of the genre until recently, and I suspect there are some diehards in this community, so let me just ask you: what's the good stuff? What should I be reading or watching or listening to to turn myself up to 11?

As always, thanks all for your thoughts.

GURPS 4th Action 2 Exploits.  Even if you don't get or use any other Action book (3 Furious Fists might be of use) Action 2 is a goldmine.

I use it in everything, fantasy, sci-fi, etc.


Tales of the Gold Monkey would make a phenomenal jump-off, it has travel, Nazis, natives, vague supernatural wojo, etc.


Not sure, it's almost all gold too me, but this TV Tropes page should prove amusing to trawl through for ideas:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmw.../Main/TwoFistedTales

Awesome, thanks for the pointers evileeyore.

So, uhm... anyone interested in a GMing a game for a monster superhero? Something Swamp Thing-ish, with monsters, mad science, magic..?

We could even scratch the superhero parts and go full-on horror or pulp sci-fi...

In reply to Varsovian (msg # 91):

I was thinking of doing a different super hero thing where people living in or visiting building or place when a freak accident changes most off the people, giving them powers. They wake up in the morning changed. They have to deal with that as well as being recruited.

I admit this is an idea I played in years ago.

Would that be conventional superheroics or something... weirder? Maybe scarier?

In reply to Varsovian (msg # 93):

I would be open to either superhero's or monsters? I was leaning to the superhero's but could do either.

I have a supers game that I wanted to run for a while now, got no players. You are a group of new heroes, got your powers a couple of months ago, found each other in the city and started working together.

I also have a dark horror fantasy setting too that needs players. The beginning for the setting has the group as monster hunters, you go to a town that just had its mayor killed mysteriously. You must investigate what happened without letting anyone find out, because in this setting magic is frowned upon and viewed as evil, let alone most people think monster don't exist anymore. I had a group get pretty far in the adventure before life happened.

Have you ever advertised these games in the Players Needed forum?

In reply to evileeyore (msg # 96):

Never had the time to really get those going so I tend to just keep them off the list and add fluff to them from time to time, like back story or organize the list of weapons and armor (which I need to get back to doing sometime...).

I wouldn't want to force anything on you... BTW. How realistic would you want this to be? Would that be classic superheroics with costumes, villains etc., or something more realistic?

On another note - here's an idea: a near-future sci-fi game focused on employees of a megacorp. With them being the good guys of the setting, if possible. I'd really like to play a suave near-future businesswoman...

In reply to Varsovian (msg # 98):

Like Shadow run, but less moral uncertainty?

Had an idea for a group of corporate execs who came up on the wrong side of an internal power struggle and sacked, forced to learn to survive on the streets.

I have a Cyberpunk character what would fit in with a GURPS Cyberpunk game. However he's been played a bit and is currently a 175 point character.

In reply to Varsovian (msg # 98):

How characters what to disguise themselves would be up to them. I am figuring if they are on the lower economical scale, they would just disguise them selves some. Also, I was thinking there are not a lot of other hero's around and what there is more like batman and such. It would be up to the group to be more hero or more vigilante

I haven't played Shadowrun, so I can't tell :)

Basically, I often wonder: is it possible to run any kind of business ethically? And out of this wondering, there came this idea... See, in typical cyberpunk fiction, the protagonists are low-lives struggling to survive in a harsh world run by amoral corporations. How about doing the other side of the coin? To create a story about a near-future corporation that's actually relatively ethical, cares for its customers and employees etc.?

In such a game, the PCs would be people not unlike Luv from the recent Blade Runner movie... specifically, not unlike Luv *appears* to be in the initial parts of that film: an elegant, nice and helpful company representative / agent.



Ha! I once had an opposite idea: a story with a street low-life type who suddenly learned that she had family ties to a big megacorp - and was recruited to be an exec's assistant. It was an idea for a freeform social game, though.



Hmmm. Would neet to think about it...

In reply to Varsovian (msg # 103):

Lol, sound VERY like Shadowrun, which can be very effectively run using the GURPs system. Would suggest you look at the Shadowrun universe...though there are 2 (albeit very slow-moving) games based on that running at the moment.

This is one, which I am running, with a view to characters working for a small mining company that sort of cares for its employees, struggling against a much larger conglomeration that really wants to squash the last cent out of everyone... employees or not! So it is kind of both sides of that coin...

link to another game

There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Exploitation is the base nature of the employer/employee dynamic.

You'd have to run a co-op, where the employees are the owners, but then you run into ethical issues and exploitation in other parts of the supply chain.

Shadowrun with less moral certainty would be current and previous edition of Shadowrun. Catalyst abandoned and vilified the Neo-Anarchists.

Hah.  That's certainly a political way to view it.

It's also not true.  It is the tendency, the strong tendency, but it isn't a requirement of capitalism.

We're talking about the cyberpunk genre here. Exploitation is baked in.

It's never been my take on the genre.

Gotta keep the punk in cyberpunk, or all you have is cyber.

Really? I thought that Shadowrun was the usual "low-life characters doing shady stuff on behalf of corrupt corporations" variety of cyberpunk.



Thanks! I'll look into it, but... I admit I just have trouble buying into Shadowrun's concept of cyberpunk mixed with fantasy. Not really cup of tea, I'm afraid...



Okay, so let's say that I'd be interested in a cyberpunk-esque story that subverts the usual tropes somewhat... There'd still be the world infested with technology, society in crisis, big corporations wielding much power... but at least some of these corporations wouldn't be as corrupt as usual. And some of them would actually try making the world a little better with corporate social responsibility...

BTW. Right now, I work for a corporation (well, a bank) and I don't feel exploited :) I hope to keep this job for some time...

Do you know what the 'punk' is though?  It's the organized criminal underworld, the 'dispossessed' street level life, the rage against the 'man' (which takes form in both anti-government as well as anti-corporate anarchism), drug use, promotion of violence as a problem solution, etc.

None of which require or even delve into "(un)ethical consumption of capitalism or exploitation of the working class".


Indeed in some settings (Shadowrun for example) the megacorps are often shown as expending resources to protect their people (regardless of class).  The Characters in that setting are most often made up from the criminal underclass which aren't capable of working within the system, and thus they fall outside of it.  You can argue that by selling their talents and being expendable, the megacorps are somehow exploiting them, but that's a grasp.

Is capitalistic exploitation* of the under-class a thing in GURPS Cyberworld?  Probably†.  I'd argue that by having a legal underclass which has no protection under the law, that yes, it is implicit, if not merely implied, that this is case.  However, GURPS Cyberworld is pretty much the only setting I can think of that makes exploitation of the underclass a thing.


* Such as legalized slavery, wage-slavery, higher tax rates, reduced rations, etc.

† It's certainly a very Libertarian economic system portrayed in Cyberwold, which does implicitly require the exploitation of the working class.

All it is is struggle. Frequently class struggle, mixed in with a bit of anti-authoritarianism and a DIY aesthetic. What you've listed are echoes, manifestations, symptoms if you're unsympathetic. Trappings.

Depending on the era, it's class-struggle-as-consumerism, co-opted by marketers into easy-to-consume media.

Depending on who you ask, Punk is dead.

But sure, doing crimes and committing drugs are fun, so if that's how your struggle manifests, I'm not going to say it's not punk.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:47, Mon 04 June 2018.

Okay, so... if nobody wants to run monsters or (non-fantasy) cyberpunk, how about something like The Invisibles..?

You know what? I think I will run a near future sci-fi business game. Its not something I've got experience with , but we can make it up on the fly. As a warning, it may come off more transhuman than cyberprep.

Are you interested?

I'm always up for transhuman.

I'd also be interested :)

Ok, I'll start up a new game sometime tomorrow, and post a link here. I'm essentially doing this on a whim, so I don't have much prep right now, but this is PbP, so its easy to not get put on the spot.

In reply to Varsovian (msg # 117):

Its Up:

link to another game

This message was deleted by the player at 15:25, Fri 05 Apr 2019.

Thanks for those handy resources, Tortuga!

No problem! I copy/paste them from old games so often I figured I might as well put them somewhere centrally located for when old games are deleted by the system.

Ever get so tired of the shortfalls and constraints of attempted RPG video games that you end up thinking about the ancient practice of using our imagination? Naturally I think back to GURPS, especially after attempting to create a character in a Pathfinder video game and uninstalling it before finishing after remembering despising D&D's character creation, despite having spent so many years of my youth developing content for that franchise. When poking back towards the thought of a good old fashioned handbuilt RPG, I stumbled upon mention of something similar to GURPS called EABA, anyone familiar with it and have any comments?

I'd never heard of EABA, but it looks intriguing, in particular the character sheet that comes built in to the pdf and the way combat rounds telescope out, getting longer as a fight continues. I'd be down to try out a game if someone wanted to run one. I don't recall ever seeing a game for the system advertised in Wanted - Players.

In reply to Mad Mick (msg # 124):

I have never heard of it...what is it?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EABA

Sounds interesting, may have to squander $20 on it ...

Downloaded the Free Lite set ...interesting, I don't like awareness covering intelligence and perception, I've seen so many intelligent people walking around in a fog and not so brilliant folk who are absolutely attuned to their surroundings.  GURPS does that better.

The way skills are learned seems better, with just learned skills being weak, while in GURPS a guy with a high IQ or DX  learns related skills with a significant jump in ability.  Going from a default of IQ/DX -5 (or even total ignorance) to IQ/DX -2 is quite a jump in ability for such limited training in many skill areas.

Parts are still confusing and will require some use to become clearer.

*IF* Someone wants to run a basic Lite Game, I am up for trying it.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:25, Thu 09 Jan 2020.

Most of the BTRC stuff is good. EABA is one of their efforts to make a generic system.  If it wasn't for all the settings made for GURPS, I'd probably use it.  BTRC also has some good settings though most of them I've used for GURPS.

They seem to have quite a few settings of their own, but the 1 foot plus of GURPS 4e books (and two or more of 3e stuff) is a serious commitment.

I can't imagine choosing a system for anything more than expediency.  I have a ton of G3; I'm in 0 hurry to get G4.

In reply to Kyndig (msg # 130):

   Know that feeling - have 75% of 3rd Edition's books, played with about 20% of the content. Tried 4th, wasn't terribly wild about it. Not in a hurry to add more books to a collection, I should be applying a "Swedish Death Cleanse" to at this point.

Inversely, I missed out on picking up a lot of GURPS 3rd when it was fresh, but I've been snagging up the odd title here and there as I've gone along since (mostly in pdf).  But I have 100% of the GURPS 4th titles as pdfs are a thing now.

In reply to evileeyore (msg # 132):

Just sticking to Gurps 4th ed

I currently run a 4th ed game. I've been picking up 3rd edition stuff as it has things that 3rd edition does not have.

What's the main differences between 3E and 4E, anyhow?

The most immediate difference is lack of Passive Defense.  Everything else converts pretty directly.  Pricing on Attributes and some Advantages and Disadvantages.  Starting character points for "heroic" level were bumped up to 150 to match the increase in Attribute pricing at the low end (Attribute pricing was flattened).

I've recently been tinkering with a GURPS steampunk campaign and rebuilding stats left and right after it came to my attention that in 16 years of GURPS 4e, they still haven't released an updated Vehicles guide? Anyhow, at this rate, I may end up building an entire guide for how to make airships, and even the factories for building them :P

Anyone know if there's steampunk GURPS games running around here? Or even GURPS games with settings that'd work well with ship crew concepts?

I had one a year or so back but had to let it go as I only had two players and then one vaporized.

In reply to Drake Steele (msg # 137):

Yeah, I was one of those players. Still a bit interested. I run a game with GURPs using Interstellar wars starships. Slightly different concept, though.

A couple more players and it could be resurrected...

In reply to Aethulred (msg # 140):

Is that the game on backburner I am already in?

In reply to BlueDwarf (msg # 141):

No, but that one is likely still born ... no one is interested.

In reply to Aethulred (msg # 142):

Sigh, yeah. Shortage of committed GURPs players!

Inversely I feel there's a shortage of committed GURPS GMs...  I've been in over 10 games in the last 5 years here that died when the GM folded up shop a month into the game.

A few of them are notorious for this, the others not so, and a few had real life emergencies that shut down the game 'temporarily' (and they never bothered to come back).


I'm keeping a list.

In reply to evileeyore (msg # 144):

Interesting. In the game I GM, there have been only really 3 committed players, though one just vanished from RPOL, and a heap of passers. Probably my poor GM skills.

But I have seen the same in a few games in which I played as well.

No doubt. I've seen more than my share of Players wander out of games I'm in, the trend (across all* systems) seems to be that the game loses about a third of the Players that show up (at start and over time when new Players show up).





* Accepting two:  Freeform which I have zero experience with and Amber DRPG where literally every Player that shows seems to stick in hard with a fierce determination.

Well the ship crew idea I have has extra benefits like the great opportunity for meaningful NPC crew and NPCs to be in the storyline, which keeps the genepool of the active entities evolving and present. Established patrons, enemies, etc, keep a world fleshed out and far easier for new players to come and go and remaining players to have less of a loss when someone disappears.  If I get a shipyard built and run, it remains in the world doing whatever with or without me; along with its funding patrons, investors, business rivals, employees, etc.  A living world model really does help address these issues.  We've got a steampunk community board out there somewhere, maybe we should tug some sleeves there as well.

I, ummm... have no idea what you mean.  (Gulp!)

In reply to Tuopleeze (msg # 148):

Lol, not pointing fingers, just a general comment!

That's about right.  Lol

Well who wishes to convert me into a Committed GURPS player? I was a huge fan of Savage Worlds when I first started role playing and now I’m getting back into it and I’ve always wanted to learn the system but I’ve never gotten the chance. I know the rules aren’t complicated but every time I have tried to participate in a game either GMing or playing I usually really struggle to grasp mechanics because usually people are very detail oriented on builds that I don’t understand the mechanics behind (speaking about templates), but I love in depth tactical games and customization and multi purpose systems that can work for any setting so I’d love to learn more and I’m willing to participate in or run a GURPS game I generally prefer SciFi, steampunk fantasy,  or Cthulhu type horror

In reply to ThaClown (msg # 152):

Have a space game I can take you solo a bit to get the hang of the system if you are interested, though I have periods of inactivity when I put to sea...

I tun a Fantasy Game and would be willing to work with you as well, Besides, BlueDwarf is in my game and I am in his... works that way sometimes.

Is anyone running 3e?

jonasthered and I run a GURPS arena game, but it's not for roleplaying, it's for combat so the players can learn some of the ins and outs and play with the rules a bit.  It's a might slow in there right now...

Can characters in the arena use magic?

By 'arena' I mean each thread is a seperate battle, theme, sometimes rules.  There is a "Wizard Duel" arena that hasn't started yet because, again, it's very slow in there.  But if you want to get involved, jonas still has a Wizard that he hasn't been able to get into a duel with yet.

In reply to evileeyore (msg # 158):

What levels?I would not mind bringing in some from Northport, like Gareth! Everybody loves a fire wielding necromancer!

We were literally using the Battle Mage template (with a few changes) from Fantasy for that one.  But if we get enough people in who want to do a DF Wizard Battle, we'll run it.

In reply to evileeyore (msg # 160):

Gareth is 250 points...well, 252, he earnt a couple. Perhaps I should look in...

Oof, that hits close to home; I really have to get back into the habit of checking in on RPoL. In any case, count me in as one more committed GURPs player aching to get back into a game or two.

For the record my favourite settings are post-apocalypse and historical, but I'm pretty much up for anything. That said, there's some layoffs predicted around here in the next month or so which could eliminate my posting opportunities entirely, so I'd feel like an ass signing up for anything right away.

But at least I can join the conversation, I'm feeling good about that much.

So many possibilities with GURPs...

Yes there is. The first Gurps game I really played in was a GURPS Rifts game. However the guy running the game did not know the setting and is a control freak who would tell you how to run your character.

That sucks.  Not much point in playing under a GM like that.

BlueDwarf and I are building some sweetness over in his Voyage of the Dastavka game. I haven't touched GURPS in forever, and never really got past character creation before, but my extensive experience, knowledge, expertise etc in related topics has us cobbling together a proper planet worth colonizing with potentially years of a thousand storylines from the foundations we're working on. Just slowly nailing down little details that mean big things, and then figuring out the best ways to present the information for the long term. With him and I focusing on the setup without a bunch of other players waiting, we're able to be thorough and not rush it. I'm hoping to eventually map massive amounts of the terrain, and if I can find the perfect way to do that with logging data in every square/hex then I'd roll that out to all sorts of settings.  Interestingly enough, the Traveller official map has a decent start at it, it just needs zoom options from galactic, to sector, to system, to planet, to region, etc down to 5-10' squares/hexes.

In reply to Drake Steele (msg # 166):

If you click on the planet and get the drop down, at the bottom it offers to generate a planet map, which may or may not be helpful; might take a couple of tries.
I remember Alizarin ... as I was the one in Dastavka who found it ... it's been interesting to see it develop since.

It's been a fun game over the past 4 years or so...

Yeah, I've put together a selection of those maps as examples of what an initial probe would've roughly detect, but then we need a real detailed map, and then we need a close up detail map to build out the colony(s).  You should see our PMs, we've got like 60 page long posts planning out stuff for Alizarin :) Taking my time to get the ducks in a row before we jump into it.

Sounds neat, I guess I'll get to see it in the months to come.

Indeed! Debating how to best handle the threads though, because static ongoing locations are better separated into their own threads, which is unlike how that game's operated for the most part so far because the focus before was on roving ships and the activity thread just stuck with them, you always knew the location was the ship basically, or the thread was dedicated to a singular player.

In reply to Drake Steele (msg # 170):

Because we are in a 4 (known) dimensional universe, it is tricky to manage multiple independent threads. Each thread has to be linear in at least one dimension, either in space or time. I have opted to be linear in time, so the threads do move around a lot, but when I bring them together, I have to bring the two thread back to a single timeline, which has presented really only minor problems.

I have creatures statted out (well some of them). Some are pretty familiar to those that studied dinosaurs, but some are the really weird 'we are not in kansas anymore' type things that may cause you to wonder about your career choice!

Indeed :) I saw some dino stats at some point, a couple wonky things like 40' something or anothers that only weighed 2.5 tons, might've been the T-Rex, wasn't sure how accurate it was. Should only matter for transporting them for export..
This message was last edited by the player at 08:16, Wed 26 Feb 2020.

In reply to Drake Steele (msg # 172):

Oh, no. The weight also matter when gathering supplies, especially for herbivores!

So obviously you want to butcher them on site into manageable sized pieces, much as you do with large game you shoot today ... no one carries a full sized Elk or Bison to a butcher facility unless they have a crane on a truck handy.  Makes me think you'd want a lightly armored (against T-rexes and such) vehicle with refrigerated storage for meat and an electrified cage on the outside to deter carnivores hanging on in anticipation of your exit. A laser machine gun or the like for those that just aren't willing to be deterred.

The low gravity component of Alizarin has us thinking of mega fauna and mega flora. Thousand foot trees, dinos twice the size you might normally imagine. My initial assessment is going to be avoiding being on the ground in general, gonna be scary down there, and it's going to take equally scary big weapons to fight some things off reliably, and the risks are still too high. There's going to be multiple companies, multiple colonies, all sorts of ways of doing things. My efforts will spearhead trying to layout what Alizarin 'is', in building the content with BlueDwarf, but then everyone can do whatever. I'll be starting off running Alizarin Outpost Alpha, the first inland settlement, a R&D station likely built high in the trees with 3d printing tech and prefab stuff, and using some of the interior space of the massive trees for core stuff like giga batteries and bulk resource storage.

Currently the biggest question mark of Alizarin is the two stars, how the second one effects the planet in terms of lighting, temperature, etc. I found information on a astrophysics procedural generation map thingamajig that gave some temperature ranges for Alizarin and I think we're gonna aim equatorial with the colonies to keep primary season temps up to norms, it's supposedly near freezing on average, by default, but we also seem to have a more Terran version of the planet than the originally labeled Barren rating. I've got some other very interesting climate ideas we can swing in, but they're huge for the story, so I'll leave them as a surprise for others :)

In reply to Drake Steele (msg # 175):

Probably game discussion, though. Not quite thinking of 1000 ft trees, but maybe 300-400 ft... GURPs Interstellar Wars is the core book. It has the climate there as 'Normal', and gravity as 0.78 G

Sounds like you guys are really cooking.

300-400' would only be equivalent to Earth's Hyperion redwood range which I believe is 375'. If that was the average tree in the average forest, with the reduced gravity compelling a 20-40% growth boost for the topend to be around 500', with a red-aesthetic themed (Alizarin is the name of a red/crimson dye and we're associating the planet's primary aesthetic with that as a cue) suped-up Pacific Northwest vibe, that should be a sufficiently pre-historic vibe with the flora beastly enough to match the fauna and to hopefully not lose the many opportunities for storytelling up in the lush maple-red canopies. The main trees in question could be fatter regardless of height, an evolutionary defensive reaction to trampling megafauna that would otherwise knock every damned thing over. I think that's a good medium; shorter trees can still work if we just make them twice the diameter of a typical comparable height Redwood.  Remember the Unique Terrain thing on the Traveller procedural maps I sent? There's an opportunity to potentially put something even more massive there. Perhaps more junglefied, less mega herbivores, less trampling, more ancient growth left to sprawl, more vicious smaller predators for close-in threats.

In reply to Drake Steele (msg # 178):

Sounds about right. But we should take this discussion into the game...

Perhaps, but others were enjoying partaking/watching a setting come together through logical leaps of scraps of data :)

In reply to Drake Steele (msg # 180):

I hope we were not just spamming them!

It's the perfect board for sharing prep of GURPS campaigns :)

I have enjoyed reading about it anyway ... likely no surprise.

I'm certain I saw Mass Combat rules for Wild West elements somewhere out there, probably in a Pyramid article somewhere. Am I imagining things? Because I can't find any mention of that anywhere anymore.

We're you looking for modern army vs modern army? I.e Mexican-American war?

Or modern army versus native population? I.e Chiricahua, Texas-Indian, etc?

I could have sworn I'd read an article that detailed Mass Combat element stats for cowboys (I think I remember them being low quality troops), Indians (braves, archers, and horse-archers), US Army (including artillery pieces), Mexican Army, the lot. It's hazy enough that I could believe I'm imagining things, but enough details are there that I can't help thinking it exists somewhere.

To actually answer your question though, I'm thinking specifically mundane troops that would make sense for 1870s American Indian Wars.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:51, Sat 07 Mar 2020.

Pyramid 3/74 has some old west stuff but not that. I'll keep looking.

In reply to Rockwolf66 (msg # 187):

I appreciate the effort Rockwolf, thanks very much. I've picked up every bit of Mass Combat and Old West related piece of GURPS and Pyramid looking for these stats, and I've come up with nothing - at this point I'm fairly convinced it was all a dream or something, but I live in hope. In the meantime I've started trying to put together my own Elements, with what I might charitably describe as "mixed success", so I hope something official exists out there somewhere.

I still can't commit to anything until early-to-mid April, but in the interest of getting a headstart on preparation: any interest around here for an Old West Action game (with or without Mass Combat)?

EDIT
Without wanting to derail the Lounge at all, I'll copy/paste that last part into the proper forum. My apologies.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:53, Thu 12 Mar 2020.

The 3ed Old West book might have something... I'll look but don't think I own that one.

In reply to Aethulred (msg # 189):

Way ahead of you there my friend, nothing doing. I appreciate you checking though.

Howdy all.

I'm still looking to put up that Wild West game I was talking about earlier, but I've run into a(nother) snag I'm hoping someone here might be able to lend a hand with. Someone convinced me I'd best shake off the cobwebs before actually launching the game properly, and I'm very glad they did because I wasn't anticipating this kind of problem.

So, I like to think of "the Old West" as being TL 5, done and done. Normally I don't like to fuss about specific years, but it seems to me TL 5 generally (and the Wild West specifically) has a bit of a weird jump in the equipment list.

Let me show you what I mean:



So here's my questions:

- Those stats come from three different sources, two official and one I'm not sure of. Looking them over, does anything strike you as being the "right" source to go off (assuming you wanted to have a single source)?
- Bit of a follow up, those prices have a pretty wide variance; in GURPS Old West terms (i.e., cost conversions, dollar values, etc.) is $40 or $400 a more reasonable price for a rifle?
- Were you to run a game set in "the Wild West", would you specify a hard year ("no guns after 1865 are available") or would "anything from TL 5" be enough for you, and would you unpack why?

As always, any thoughts or opinions are much appreciated.

Hope everyone is staying well.

A great question.

I consider myself a novice at best concerning historical matters in that period, but I figured I would give my opinion at least.

Depending on where you in North America in any particular year throughout the 19th century, you could deal with a staggering array of weaponry, accoutrements and logistics. This is still, especially early in the century, an age of independent gunsmiths, not withstanding the arms manufacturing boom surrounding the American civil war. Even then, equipment could vary wildly by military unit and region.

It's entirely possible to have Native American tribes using smoothbore muskets, bows, arrows, lance's, war clubs (stone, steel or gunstock), hatchets, knives, etc.

European firearms of all sorts were still filtering in through Mexico, Canada and the Caribbean.

A western mountain man might prefer the utility of a large bore plains rifle, where he could pour his own balls, use bulk powder of varying qualities and not worry about complicated mechanisms, rifling wear or repairs.

A military man coming out of the large cities of the east might have a break action revolver, replete with brass cased (practically waterproof) ammunition, a repeating rifle and a saber designed for combat rather than dress.

His contemporary might have a cap and ball version, and prefer a dress small sword or dagger to a full sized, cumbersome saber. Given the lack of standards, he might be a militia officer for example, self equipped and elected by his community peers.

But the former might have to wait months for a box of ammunition to arrive via rail, as it's only made in New York let's say.

And then you get into things like shotshell construction (paper, all brass, multi-part) , the mini-ball revolution, and the post war rise of industrial manufacturing.

Firing caps, black powder, breech action, bolt action, break action, lever action, pump action...etc

You can get pretty deep with it
This message was last edited by the player at 16:35, Fri 20 Mar 2020.

Just a quick fact note. $400 in that era was equivalent to something like $800. The $40 price tag is accurate to the era, per inflation.

I think I can help...

The top listing is likely a real cost (if not a bit too high) in 1867 or there abouts, $20 was a LOT of money back then.

The $400 price has to be in a different time frame, as that was enough to buy a small house in 1867.

I went to KNUCKLE DUSTER Fire Arms for some original prices...they list the Winchester Model 1873 repeater in .44-40 at $25 new. Ammo was $1.38/100

Ah Ha! ... Winchester 1866 "Yellowboy" Repeater in .44 rim Fire was $30 new in 1866-67 (Brand New design).

So even the $40 price is high, unless you are in a boom town where prices could easily be double or triple normal for everything.

In 1866 the most common revolvers are either cap and ball from the recent civil war (Surplus and likely cheap at $3 to $5) or cartridge conversions for rimfire cartridges which would double or triple the price. Center fire revolvers date from around 1873-75.

Rim fire revolvers had a problem with the back of the case blowing out from the pressure and case quality issues (inability to make the cases of a defined thickness given the technology of the day). This was seldom an issue in .22, .32 weapons a slightly greater issue in .36/.38 weapons and became increasingly serious as the bullet size went up. It was a problem in .44s and encouraged the adoption of center fire cartridges.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:36, Fri 20 Mar 2020.

Either use the wiki (I wouldn't) or use the books.  Do not mix and match unless you are willing to convert.  Also the wiki tends towards a lot of errors (hence why I wouldn't use it).


GURPS $ aren't 'real world' dollars.  So the "$400" price is in GURPS bucks.


I go 'hard year' because there are some radical jumps in technology with guns.  In some cases this is down to propellant, a change in bullet length, and even manufacturing quality.

In this case the jump from 3d+1 pi from 2d+1 pi is due to cartridge change, the '1866' was firing .44 rimfire Henrys, the '1873' had switched over to the .44-40 centerfire, a more powerful cartridge.  The reload speed change is a switch from underbarrel front loading tube to side-gate.

I also put limits on what weapons can be taken, by requiring the Early Adopter Perk for all equipment that is younger than 5 years of game date start.

I grew up in a small town in the west, and I'm something of a history buff, so for me dates are a really important part of the setting. They influence so much more than just which guns are available. The date influences where the trains are, where the telegraph lines are, and what sort of populations you're using. Each decade has a different feel. Also, I like to have a specific location, at least in a general sense, because Arizona is not new Mexico is not Wyoming.

In reply to jonasthered (msg # 196):

Price wise, as has been mentioned, GURPs $1 equates to "the amount of local currency needed to buy a loaf of bread or equivalent staple - not with historical U.S. dollars" (B27).

Not sure about bread, but flour was 3c/lb and milk 4c/quart in 1860...see http://www.choosingvoluntarysi...ions-dry-goods-more/

Hence, being very conservative, if a loaf of bread was 5c, then the price in GURPs $ is about 20 times the price in US$ at the time, so the $450 rifle would cost $22.50 in the dollars at the time! Hence, no contradiction...just decide on your currency!

Okay, from the looks of things I'm better off using the official sources (thanks for the insights all), but now I'm having trouble understanding GURPS bucks. If I can ask your continued indulgence, would you mind if we dig into this a bit?

I'll take tiny steps, because I'm not a clever person and I'll need to go slow if I'm to have any hope of actually learning something.



Does this mean:



And that, as a general guideline, I should reduce any cash rewards etc. (like from bounty hunter posters, payroll robberies, buried treasure, whatever) by 22% from whatever I have in mind? Like if I want to give them the equivalent of $10,000, I should actually award $2,200? Or $500 ($10,000/20)?

I realize these questions may seem dumb, but I'm a bit lost just now. Also, I'm terrible at math. Like, really bad.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:01, Sun 22 Mar 2020.

This message was deleted by the player at 01:22, Sun 22 Mar 2020.

Actually 5000/22= $227.27 roughly, so that's the way I would play it.
The Horse is $54.55 (remember that that 55¢ is serious money now).
The rifle is $18.18  ...   Just divide all amounts by 22.

Obviously these amounts can go up or down based on availability or how new and fancy something is ... I am sure that the first 1873's went for a fair mark up until they were common.

Also, Black Powder (The only powder in 1873-75) is damned corrosive, so guns will go to crap if not cleaned after any shooting and for several days thereafter. It will also foul the gun after a lot of shooting (say 24 shots with a revolver, maybe 50 or so with a rifle) and just jam up.

In reply to Aethulred (msg # 200):

Divisor means to divide by 22, not 22%. So these are pretty similar.

Awesome, thanks all for your help (and for not picking on my 2nd grade understanding of math, that's mercy I probably don't deserve). I'll update my notes accordingly.

Hope everyone is staying healthy.

If I had questions about how GURPS would work for a very specific game I have in mind, which forum should I use? Interest check? This one? Basically, I'm curious about how much work would be involved if I were to modify the game to precisely fit what I'm looking for before I purchase items.

I would imagine Rules Chat would be your best bet :)

Have any of you checked out GURPS Girl Genius? The Kickstarter is doing well: https://www.kickstarter.com/pr...leplaying-game/posts. I've read a bit of the comic, but I'm surprised that such a niche property would get a Kickstarter.

Eh?  Why the surprise?  They been working on it for almost a decade, it's well supported in the community (vocally anyway)... and SJGames has no money to actually get it across the finish line.  Kickstarter to gather funds and establish "preorders" sounds about on par to me.

For my money, I'm damn shocked  Fantasy Folk Elves was simply released and didn't get the "Kickstarter treatment".  Makes me mildly hopeful that GURPS' fantasy line is maybe doing well enough to keep floating more books without "resorting to Kickstarter".

Is it mostly Girl Genius fans who are the audience for the GURPS book, then?

Thanks for the head's up about Elves. It looks like it's versatile enough to slot into a Banestorm or DF game.

It's a crossing of the Venn.  But yeah, mostly GG fans who are GURPS fans (and that's a large crowd actually), with a handful of non-GG steampunk/gaslamp fans.  And like two guys who are pumped to see the invention rules.


It's a good book and has every published flavor of GURPSian Elf in one place, as well as some discussions on what, where, how... th usually.  And like the usual it's lacking in a few spots, but that's why GM's make House Rules.

Douglas Cole is launching a Kickstarter soon for what looks like a GURPS monster manual (though it is designed with his Nordland setting in mind): https://www.kickstarter.com/pr...ary-and-enemies-book. Pretty cool stuff, and always nice to have more monsters on hand.

Do the core GURPS Rules operate the same as Dungeon Fantasy?  What is the primary difference?

Yes, Dungeon Fantasy uses the GURPS rules, but the focus is on dungeon-delving and combat rather than other aspects of roleplaying like political intrigue and social interaction. Still, DF is definitely usable in a GURPS Fantasy game.

This is how Sean Punch describes the difference between GURPS Fantasy and GURPS Dungeon Fantasy in DF 1 Adventurers:


This message was lightly edited by the GM at 02:04, Thu 04 Nov 2021.

We’ll explained, thank you!

There are a few rules changes for simplification, some equipment weights altered to line up with Low-Tech, over half the spells truncated from GURPS Magic... that's all very well codified in the Dungeon Fantasy RolePlaying Game Powered By GURPS Boxset.  If you prefer to delve into the much broader, not as trimmed down, Dungeon Fantasy line, I also recommend picking up Pyramid 3-60 Dungeon Fantasy III for the Wizardry Refined article, it adjusts spell prereqs and durations to work the way Sean Punch was envisioning, but didn't quite explain well in DF 1 Adventurers.

Or, what I prefer is to run using DFRPG boxset with heaps of stuff swiped out of DF added back in (and some stuff from Martial Arts).

A Fjallatroll, a sample monster from the upcoming Dungeon Fantasy RPG Nordlond Bestiary: https://imgur.com/kkGZ1OX

Source: https://gamingballistic.com/20...d-bestiary-a-sample/

I'm not sure what the Faerie Veil 4 trait is, though. The Faerie Veil is apparently what separates our world from the universe of Castle Falkenstein, but I don't see where the trait comes from.
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:14, Wed 10 Nov 2021.

DFRPG Hall of Judgement.  The first book in the Nordlond Saga for which this Bestiary is being written.

Ah! I figured it was something related to the setting. At some point, I need to get the Nordlond books.

They are quite good if you want to aim at a Viking/Nordic themed game, but also they have some new abilities.  Delvers To Go is the best part of the 'setting' books (followed by Fantastic Dungeon Grappling if you like Technical Grappling).  And Nordlondr Folk is pretty handy if you want another take on fantasy races.

If anyone’s looking for one-shot ideas, this site has quite a few different free adventures for GURPS (with a variety of conversions for other systems as well): https://1shotadventures.com/adventure-index/

I’m impressed with the maps and visuals included in these and the variety of settings and genres.

Seconding, I've read through most of them and they are really well written.  Professional grade.

Holy cow, what an awesome resource!  I tend to use my own material crossed over from various other systems, but it's always phenomenal to have all the work done for you!

They are great.  I've gotten them all, even the ones I'll never use are useful for ideas.

These adventures make me giddy with excitement! Thanks Mad Mick! :)

Kind of wish there were Pathfinder 1E versions of the Fantasy stuff and Deadlands: The Weird West versions of the Old West and some of the Horror stuff.

I downloaded everything GURPS and will look them over later.

I bet the author might be willing to make those conversions. It would be worth making the suggestion, if only to indicate the interest is there.

I haven't used Ritual Magic before. In the default magic system, I usually aim for skill-15 in the spells I want to use. What skill level should I be aiming for in the rituals I want to focus on?

How does one go about starting a thread in the lounge?

One of the worst ideas in all of GURPS: Chi Abilities.  Who came up with this idea?

Chi Abilities are best used (as in "least bad") with a character who never leaves home (i.e. never goes out adventuring). A character with Chi Abilities will miss 1-6 hrs of sleep every night, which leads to sleep deprivation, which leads to minuses on their rolls plus interfering with their ability to heal.  And that's assuming they stay home. If they go out, it gets much worse!

A person with Chi Abilities needs to spend twice as money on "special foods" for their diet.  Wait, special foods?  As in rare or hard to find?  Adventuring?  Never mind the price, where in a dungeon do you even find special foods?  They need rare oils and incense.  Gee, I hope that doesn't attract the attention of wandering monsters or enemy patrols.  And it's not like you can suspend any of these things without losing all of the abilities you paid all those points to get!

Chi Abilities are worse than having an Addiction (which, at least, gets points back).  To maintain Chi Abilities, the character will be sleep-deprived.  The character needs to be always flush with cash, in order to buy foods, oils, and incense, assuming any of it is even available where they're going, slow the party down having to spend time with rituals that could easily draw negative attention... He better be one kick-ass fighter to be worth all this!
This message was last edited by the player at 10:04, Sat 01 Jan 2022.

Like a lot of things... depends.  RPM is Energy Accumulating, so every extra MoS you can scrape up each pass gets you closer to finishing the ritual faster.

However, if you always have a consecrated space, immediate access to the subject, Magery 0 or better, and all the time in the world (30 minutes minimum usually), then a 16 should suffice... if you're a Ritual Adept, you can forego a lot of the previous requirements and still get away with a 16.

However, I did mention that the higher your MoS the faster you "get 'er done", yah?  I've played (and GMed for) RPM ritualists who didn't feel happy with a 30 skill, of course they were trying to cast rituals on the fly that cost upwards of 300 energy...


If you're happy with hung or charmed spells, a 16 should suffice, especially if you have a good workshop, reagents, etc (if you can line up bonuses, or are just happy creating smaller charms).  Otherwise it is a staircase every stretching into the heavens with no end in sight, just like regualr Magic spells (I mean okay, Create Zombie at 50 is pretty much time to stop...).






Chi abilities are fine.  Those requirements only exist in DF, and they are to off-set the bonuses of the powers.


Or you lose time doing other things; IE you don't take a watch, you don't do in town activities, etc.  It averages out to 3 hours a day.  And if you roll that always 'feared' 6, do you know what the worst you suffer is?  You're down 3 FP the next day because you stayed up late doing your special exercises/meditations.


No they're common, available everywhere, they just cost money.  And with the right skills they can be Scrounged and Herbaled up.  Or at least the cost can be offset a bit.


You carry them in with you.  Just like your buddy the Knight carries in the rations they're going to eat...


If your GM does that, then that torch and lamp oil is also drawing monsters, as is the standard rations you and everyone else is eating.  And your GM is being an [DELETED].


It's pretty clear you've either never actually played in a game with them or your previous GM was a [DELETED].  Give them a try or play something else, like a Wizard or Cleric who have their abilities turned off just by walking into the wrong room.

And no, Martial Artists aren't the baddest of the bad warriors, they are versatile warriors, often a bit more fragile, but they have great utility and dungeon parkour ability*.  And with a slight investment, out thieves a Thief.  You want to moan about a Profession that gets the short end or the stick?  Play a Thief, everyone but Barbarians, Holy Warriors, and Knights can do their job, and those three Profession can often 'Barbarian' their way through a dungeon without a Thief.

* And do not play a Pixie Martial Artist, just don't do it.  Really subpar considering MA's deal damage based on ST.  I mean it's an interesting concept, and the right Player could have loads of fun with it, but you're trading out a bunch of the MA's specialties for being able to fly, hide well, and suck in No Mana Zones...

Feel free to use the most appropriate thread. Game Proposals/Interest Checks is for sussing out interest for games you’d like to run. The Rules Chat thread is to discuss rules and ask questions. Resources is for anything that might be helpful for GMs when running a game or players when playing. Game Advertisements is to promote games you need players for. The Lounge is the catch-all for general discussion or anything else that doesn’t fit elsewhere.

If we’re missing a useful thread topic, let me know, and we can create one. We don’t have an art thread or a map-making thread, for instance, but if someone wanted one, we could start one.

Edit: From Yestow's question, I realized that I sometimes post things here in the Lounge that ought to go in the Resources thread. Also, it would be a good idea to have a master post for the resources in that thread. I'll see about adding the resources from that thread to a master post, similar to how the RPOL mods handle Heaven.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:48, Sat 01 Jan 2022.

Looking for a Consensus...

I had a guy in one of my campaigns who had a character with Cling.  Player was frustrated his PC only Moved at half, until I told him he could make up the difference by getting Superclimb.  Hooray!  The physical actions of climbing are essentially the same as crawling, except the character moves horizontally, rather than vertically, need not worry so much about handholds or footholds, and worry a lot less about falling to their death.  So I ruled that, with Superclimb, a character can crawl at least as fast as he climbs.

I can find nothing that contradicts me on this, nor can I find anything which supports me.  As I soon hope to introduce a character to a campaign who has Superclimb (albeit without Cling), could I have a (admittedly non-binding) consensus in support of this interpretation?

Super Climbing gives +1 move when climbing or using the clinging advantage. It does not change your speed with the clinging advantage, half basic move, to full move.

Its basically Basic Move (Climbing only, -40%) [3/lvl]

What Zoncxs said. Clinging is basically one of Spider-Man’s advantages. I’m curious, though. You said your PC only moves at half Move? Are they crawling everywhere, not just walls and ceilings? A PC with Clinging can still walk or run at normal Move.

As Zoncxs says, it's just +1 to Move when climbing, it doesn't alter any other calculations so just buy enough Super Climbing to make up the difference between their halved Move and full Move.  I mean it only costs 3 points per level so it's not like it's "expensive"*.


Also what are you looking to do and how much Move do you have?  The first question is because there may be a simpler (or more complicated but cheaper) way to get what you want to do, the second because depending on how much Move you need to make up, it may be less expensive to buy Flight with the limitations Must Touch Surface† -30% and Reduced/Increased Flight Move -2/lvl‡.



* It is.  Clinging and Super Climbing is stupidly expensive when compared to Flight (Low Ceiling, 5", -25%), Reduced Flight Speed -10 points, for an 'average joe".  Take 'Joe Regular Move', Basic Speed 5, Move 5.  So he can 'run up walls and across ceilings' using Clinging it costs him 26 points, Clinging [20] and Super Climb 3 lvls [6].  Inversely, buying Flight [20] [Flight 30 (Low Ceiling 5', -25%), Reduced Flight Move 5 lvls, -10], is cheaper and better.  If your allowed to go this route.

That's why in games I run Clinging is only 10 points and Flight Move starts equal to Ground Move.


† I eyeball "Must Touch Surface" at that to keep it more expensive than Clinging and treat it as "surface must bear your weight" and "does not avoid surface hazards".

‡ This is so ludicrously inexpensive, I have no idea what they were thinking, it's less expensive to increase flight move than climbing move.  *sigh*

I think Clinging for 10 points and half move makes a lot of sense, flying is not logical at 5" altitude, as any surface imperfection becomes a bad landing!

No more than it would be a 'trip and fall' hazard for a runner.  So yeah, if you'd make some make a DX (Acrobatics) check if they were running, do it for the flyer.

In reply to Zoncxs (msg # 231):

Super Climbing (page 89)
3 points/level
   You can climb very quickly. Each level of Super Climbing gives you +1 Move when climbing or using the Clinging advantage (p. 43).

Clinging
... Move while clinging is half your Basic Move.

  So, when Clinging, your Move is half, which is still better than just crawling, where your Move is a third.

  Since I was able to buy Super Climb to bring his Move while Clinging up to his full running Move, I figured I could use Super Climb to bring his crawling Move up as well, even if he wasn't using Clinging at the time (I just had to bring it up from a third -- for crawling -- instead of half -- for Clinging).

Different subject: can someone please tell me how to change the color of my text when posting?  I need it to meet format requirements for a character I'm submitting. (Not complaining, just at a loss.)

Ah, found it, never mind. Thanks!

Your game, your rules.  To be honest though, i'd allow it too, no reason you can't be 'climbing across the ground'.



If you're on mobile, I have no idea, but below the posting window in a regular browser window there are formatting options, the "style text" drop down has the colors.

If they aren't there, you can do it the hard way, for the most part formatting on this board uses carrots: <> and </> and then whatever is in the carrot is the formatting that will be down so...

<u>The</u> <i>quick</i> <s>borwn</s> <Brown>brown</Brown> <Serif>fox</Serif> ^jumped _over <small>the</small> <b>lazy</b> <large>dog</large>.

... yeilds:

The quick borwn brown fox ^jumped _over the lazy dog.

You can nest multiple <large></large> tags to make larger and larger and even larger words (I think 3 nests is the limit though).

The colors are Red, Orange, Aqua, Blue, Darkblue, Green, Darkgreen, Brown, Purple, Yellow, Pink, Royalred, Coral, Goldenrod, Seagreen, Periwinkle, Lavender, Rose, and Gray.

Ah, found it, never mind. Thank you!
This message was last edited by the player at 02:07, Sat 08 Jan 2022.

I would rule that if you have the clinging advantage then your crawling speed is now only half your move instead of a third of your move since that is what it implies from the advantage.

New Topic. I have a little story to tell...

There were these two brothers, the Rowe brothers, Mike and Mac, identical twins.  Basic Joe Regulars, six feet tall, 200 pounds each. The only difference between them was that Mike had practiced running enough that his Move was now 6, instead of 5 (like his brother).

These two, young men were walking down the street when, suddenly, an evil wizard appeared and zapped Mike with a powerful spell!  Instantly, Mike Rowe shrank down to SM -10!

Curiously, despite his change in stature, Mike's Move hasn't changed; it's still 6. In a foot race, Mike would still outrun his brother, who is forty times his height!  His tiny legs, pumping away, would be doing 240 .9" strides per second! Zzzzip!!!

At about the same time, some TL 12 miscreant steps out of an alley and hits Mac with a warp-reality beam; making him SM 10! The now 100 yards tall (300'!) Mac Rowe learns that his Move is still only 5.  His shoe is now 14 yards long and he can't shuffle a full half of that!  Despite now being 2,000 times his brother's height, Mac Rowe is still being outrun by his brother, Mike Rowe.

It gets worse!  Every 2 SM of increase and the weight is multiplied by 8.  Every 2 SM of decrease and the weight is divided by 8.  Starting at 200 lbs., Mac Rowe now weighs 200 x 8 x 8 x 8 x 8 x 8... = 6,453,600 lbs!  More than 3,000 tons!  With his ST still at 10, he wouldn't be able to lift a finger!

Mike Rowe, on the other hand, has a weight of 200 ÷ 8 ÷ 8 ÷ 8 ÷ 8 ÷ 8... = 0.09765625 oz.!  Less than a tenth of an ounce!

More later...

Rules can almost always be broken by taking things to extremes. They also cannot be written to cover every single possibility.
This is why GMs have license to make judgements (ie mike now runs 6/10 or 0.6 per move.
It's also why rules lawyers & munchkins are despised as someone can always find some other way to twist things to their benefit and rules be damned.

The ultimate purpose of the game is to have fun, and it requires each plaayer to contribute and to accept the GMs efforts to keep the story in balance nd moving.

 It's a GM error if the players go off in an unexpected direction and he forces them back onto his preprogrammed story line instead of inventing as it goes along.

I've long wanted SM to be redone, strip all the "freebies" (both advantage and disadvantage) from it and charge/give points for any benefits or drawbacks a size change brings.

So, my proposed solution is something I call DU ("Distance Units"). At SM 0, 1 DU is 1 yard, so a whose height is modeled on being 2 yards tall would continue to be 2 yards tall.

I ran a "Gee, I Show" campaign (more than once) where everyone's consciousnesses were involuntarily transferred into GI Joe action figures. Some marveled at the ramifications of No Blood, No Brain, Doesn't Breathe, and so on, while others mourned the fact that, even if they could get close to a Barbie doll (or, for some, a certain GI Joe), they now lacked the equipment to take advantage of the opportunity. [Sigh.]  The relevant part here is that a DU was now just 3½". Characters with a Move 8 still had Move 8, it's just that Move 8 now translated to Move 28"!  The guy whose bow could shoot 250 yards could now only shoot 875" (72'11")-- with a range modifier of -13.  But, hey, anyone crazy enough to attack a human will see them as 17 DU tall, meaning +6 to hit.

I also introduced WU ("Weight Units"). At SM 0, 1 WU is 1lb.  For the GI Joes at SM -6, 1 WU was a thirty-second of an ounce, or 0.03125 oz.!  So the guy with ST12, who can normally pick up 560 lbs. can now only lift 15 ⅝ oz.  Basic Lift of ⅞ lb.
This message was last edited by the player at 09:00, Sun 09 Jan 2022.

This message was deleted by the player at 09:01, Sun 09 Jan 2022.

This message was deleted by the player at 09:01, Sun 09 Jan 2022.

What's the most interesting race you've ever created/played with?

Well altering Orcs back into Uruk, standrd and Snaga was a big plus... each now has different abilities and fears. All Orcs are not mindless thugs, they have lives, dreams, and heir own life style (much borrowed from OrcWorld).

And then there are the Yalar, a banestorm introduced Race who are "lesser vampires". They must have blood to survive and it has to be mamalian blood. But they don't do Sentients. They are of course, hated and distrusted on discovery. Generally attacked by the populace upon discovery, but they have managed to hide within society and are fairly widespread in small groups. vI'll keep the rest of that race secret for now, but you should be able to use them if needed.

The Justification is: The Yalar were a nomadic "horse" people, and the blood they most used was that of their 'Padroni' or "horses" ... any other blood was considered a poor second. Today, for a big feast or important occasion, Horse blood is needed, and this causes problems, as killing a horse in Yrth is an exceptional act. Butchering a horse is almost unheard of unless it is an old Nag ... and stealing a good horse with desirable blood is a crime punished by death.  This does not negate the need in the eyes of the Yalar, and many a nobles fine steed has been stolen, never to be seen again.
A very few Yalar have found grasslands similar to their old home in the Nomad Territories north of Megalos, they live the old life with a few  differences.
The reason for the Yalar dependance on blood goes back to their old world, where the dark, cloudy world of swamps and grassland had few game animals, and protein was crucial to survival. Killing a 'Padroni' every few weeks was unsustainable, so it was found that by having a fair sized herd and bleeding a different 'Padroni' every day, you could sustain both the herd and the families protein requirements. A well to do man with a large herd could have a large family and perhaps two or three wives. Over the succeeding millennia, the dependance became absolute, and even raw meat will do only little to sustain a Yalar. Since their arrival on Yrth, it has become both necessary and desirable from a social aspect to adopt monogamy, and polygamy is no longer known among the Yalar except in the Nomad Lands. This dependance on blood does seem to have something to do with their long lives and ability to heal fully and quickly from most wounds. The millennia of existence on a dark cloudy world makes them quite light sensitive, although they appreciate the plenty of this world.

I saw a post on Reddit about building mobile bases in D&D as part of a specialist class. Here are some images of the pdf:

https://preview.redd.it/pxujfv...73cee64b1542e80a52fa
https://preview.redd.it/oc6yvj...5c4f217d06fc3c1b78b8
https://preview.redd.it/ao0spu...37763eda7e13ff9faeed
https://preview.redd.it/bi63nl...5d85d22974801e4a967d

What kind of ideas have you had for mobile bases, either as a player or a GM? Or bases in general?

Here's the pdf if you're interested: https://postavern5e.itch.io/ca...artificer-specialist

I find that bases that are too mobile remove a lot of interesting choice from play, like supplies and looting; when your house is right there, it frees PCs up to have to carry far, far less and they can more easily "make multiple trips to strip the 'dungeon' clean".

So, largely I avoid allowing them at all.

I suppose some genres lend more to having mobile bases than others. I've had a sailing ship in a Pirates and Zombies game, an airship in a Space 1889 game, and various space transports in Star Wars games. It'd be cool to have a sort of tinker's wagon to ride around in, similar to the witch's cart in Stardust.

I've used portable homes and pocket dimensions in Elder Scrolls games, and you're right, having a portable bolthole takes some of the challenge out of fighting and looting.

Oh hells yes, there is the whole "Traveling Adventures" genre, and yeah, I've enjoyed games where the PCs have a Conestoga or vardo or barque or 10 mile long spacecraft carrier* or railroad† or small group of individual transports (like a Mad Max convoy or Battlestar Galactica ragtag fleet)...  but those campaigns are usually "go place, disembark, travel a distance away from Mobile Base and then adventure", sometimes "Adventure from within Mobile Base" by repelling raiders, or parking right on top of the adventure, but generally the Traveling Adventure/Mobile Base genre doesn't have the same logistical challenges... though you can make it have it if done right.


* In that case a good portion of the adventure was unlocking various parts of the ship and exploring the "old ghost ship" which was basically a super-sized SDF-1 Macross, figuring out why it was random jumping around the galaxy, cleaning it out of the raiders that had taken up within it (and other elements), repairing it, and gaining control of the greatest super weapon in the galaxy...

† A literal Railroad campaign I ran after my Players complained they wanted less "sandbox more railroad".  It was a mash-up of Galaxy Express 999 and the idea of "differenet port each episode" from old Star treks and original Battlestar (basically what Stargate Universe tried to do) where a posse of Texas Marshalls and cowboys chased three small bandits (who turned out to be Greys) onto a speeding train and were trapped when it went "galaxy" mode.  The rest of the campaign was them scrounging for supplies at the "random" stops, trying to learn the language of the Conductor and "robotic" engineers, and generally figuring out how to survive on the 'train' that wasn't exactly inhospitable, but wasn't designed for human comforts... and trying to figure out how or if they even could ever go home.  I ran this back when I still thought "surprise twists" were a really good idea.  I wouldn't run it that way today.

This was an example of inverting the logistics issues though, as the PCs were constantly running out of stuff and had no "safe place" to just store goods for a long time despite being on "their mobile base", so they had to carry everything or risk their stashes getting "raided" (cleaned out, moved, etc by Train staff or other passengers) until they learned how to "get by" on the Train and pay for secure berths.



Yeah, if your running a Traveling Game, or Mobile Base game it can work fine, but if you want to do "Back To The Dungeon" or "Orc and Pie" it strips a lot of that genre's charms away.  Even "too many" bags of holding can do that (as I discovered in one D&D game where my Character was all about getting as many bags of holding as possible).

Heya all,

I recently rediscovered my childhood love for pro wrestling, and that's polluted pretty much all the other games I play in to the point that I'm starting to seriously consider just putting together some sort of rasslin' Martial Arts campaign. You guys, I seriously wrapped up a year-long Curse of Strahd campaign last weekend playing a nameless maniac known only as "the Ultimate Fighter" and you bet your ass my battleax was named "DESTRUCITY".

Anyhow, I've been away from the GM seat and from GURPS for awhile, and I'm thinking there's no way I'm the first person to have this idea. So, with that in mind, I figured I'd check among the locals.

GURPS Action and Martial Arts (and their offspring) are the obvious places to start, but I'd appreciate any suggestions or ideas anyone has before I really start tackling this thing. Have any of you folks participated in a similar campaign, either as player or GM? Any thoughts, resources, opinions, hot-takes, dire warnings, early criticisms, cheap tickets, or whatever you'd like to offer?

I saw this linked on Reddit, but Christopher R. Rice posted these variations for Weirdness Magnet on his blog, Ravens N' Pennies: https://www.ravensnpennies.com...s-magnet-variations/

I particularly like the Mystery Magnet variation, though that seems like it would be taxing for a GM. Why do all those people keep dying around Jessica Fletcher?

I still don't think the GM is getting the points worth out of it.

Frex:

That version is just "points for playing in the game where the theme is "people die and the PCs solve the mystery'".  In what way would that be imparting 15 points worht trouble or setback on Ms. Fletcher?

No, I far prefer Charles Saeger's take on his blog:
https://gurpshexytime.blogspot...ur-points-worth.html


Except I pump the reaction penalty up everyone (I mean everyone), and use Kromm's "weird things get a +5 to sense you" ruling.

Bundle of Holding this month is offering a number of GURPS pdfs. If you're in the Community Lounge, you probably already have these already, but if you're just starting out, the bundle gives you some really useful books.

The CORE Collection includes the Basic Set and some GM tools. An optional add-on includes 6 GURPS Tech supplements and Mass Combat.

It's too bad they didn't also include a set with Fantasy, Magic, and Powers.

https://bundleofholding.com/presents/GURPS4Essentials

Maybe if this is successful SJG will try more.

Apparently it has been! There's one for Fantasy up now: https://bundleofholding.com/presents/GURPS4Fantasy

This one includes Fantasy, Magic, and Banestorm, along with a Thaumatology addon.

I wonder if they're going to do a Dungeon Fantasy bundle at some point.

There's also a GURPS bundle for sci-fi: https://bundleofholding.com/presents/GURPS4Space

This was a very good haul for me whose brand new to GURPS. Now I just don't know where to start! I want to try and run a short campaign (4-5 sessions), but I just have so many options on what to run with all the different books from the 3 bundles.

Any suggestions? Was thinking either Urban Fantasy or MiB style investigating aliens, but I wonder if the books I've got are suitable for that.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:04, Mon 04 July 2022.

If you got the Fantasy bonus pack, Thaumatology: Urban Magics is perfect for Urban Fantasy.  Of course, as is usual for GURPS, there are other books that would be useful.  ;-)

In reply to Bornite (msg # 261):

That is perfect, thanks! There are just so many books to read now, time to start working through them!

These will be forever available at DriveThruRPG.com if you do it? With updates, etc?
This message was last edited by the player at 07:16, Sat 09 July 2022.

Yes, they should remain in your library at DriveThruRPG. I’m not sure about updates, though. I don’t know how often (if ever) the PDFs get updated.

Edit: I’d assume so, though. If one pdf is updated, you should be able to download the updated pdf. That’s how it works on Warehouse 23, anyway.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:22, Sat 09 July 2022.

Hi folks!

I don't know if I've posted here before, but I have kind of a fun one...

So one of my characters is exploring a dungeon, and has successfully snuck up on a few (large) rats in a room.

Moving back down the hallway, he got out his fishing pole, baited the hook and cast into the room in hopes of catching a rat.

And I wouldn't be doing my duty as GM if I said that didn't work...

So now he has a very large, and very confused rat on the line.

I'm curious as to how you guys would make this an interesting/fun little (or serious) encounter.

A few ST or DX checks between the "combatants"? Fishing skill for the character (in which he has a 17)? Just get it over with using one quick-contest?

I'm very much a new GM and I just want to hear some words of advice from people who are better at this than I am.

Thanks in advance!

And how strong is the Fishing Line? Likely not designed for the task at hand.

He went into the dungeon directly off the coast of the ocean.

So I told him the line was strong enough to handle a good amount of stress.

Sounds like a Trained (Fishing) ST Weapon Grapple to to me...  yeah, it's Trained ST vs ST to 'reel' the rat in, though it may decide to lunge at him... rats aren't exactly "a fish out water" in this situation.  ;)

If he has the Lasso, whip, or Kusari skill I'd even allow him to make a "loop it around it's neck" attack... or one at default if they don't have those skills.

In reply to evileeyore (msg # 268):

Funny you mention that. The... "plan"... is to kick the rat in the head when it gets close enough. So a sudden lunge toward the aggressor is certainly a possibility. Heh.

A Weapon Grapple. I am going to go digging for that. I hope it's not an ID10T. But if it means something like he has to make some rolls to hang onto the pole... I'm in.

Also, just out of curiosity mind you, are there rules for getting tangled in stuff? Say... thin, strong line of some kind? Strictly hypothetical mind you.



He has a hammock...

I wish I could tell you I was making this shit up. But that would be taking too much credit.

Weapon Grapples are in Martial Arts.  But it's just "use your weapon skill at -2 if it's not designed for this" (he's already hooked, so skip that) and then if it's a ST test part of a grapple it's "float your weapon skill to ST".  Nothing really complicated beyond the grappling rules in Basic.

If you do have Martial Arts though, whole new vistas open up...


Not really...  you could make what I call a "Cosmic Reaction Roll", basically roll 3d6 on the Reaction Table, the results are "how does this effect the PC", so on a Good maybe the rat gets a bit tangled in the line and suffers a -1 to it's rolls, or on a Bad result, the the PC loses some line out as slack and takes a -1 on his rolls.  I go Good ±1, Very Good ±2, Excellent ±3 to the PCs benefit and the opposite on Bad, Very Bad, and Disastrous rolls.

Or, like I said, have the PC make a Lasso skill roll at default (DX-5) to try to get the rat deliberately tangled.  Now if it were a net we'd have some rules...


He sounds prepared... to take a nap.

In reply to Mad Mick (msg # 264):

I pulled the trigger on all 3 tonight. Just as you said, all the files were instantly available in DriveThru. Pretty good deal.

Back on RPoL after a long absence. Is anybody recruiting for GURPS games, or starting something new soon?

Welcome back Plonk! If you like smarty pants Clerics and can tolerate my hybrid Gurps/D&D system and a once per day (during the week) posting rate, pop by Tomb of Horrors.

I've got Myranti Vishara, Cleric of Aereon I'd love you to dive into...


link to another game

Thank you for the invitation, but I'm not looking to take on an abandoned character at this time. Or to jump feetfirst into Tomb of Horror, for that matter! :D

COWARD!  lol   :)

just kidding! Good luck finding a game.

If you're into solo games and can handle an all action all the time, fast posting rate game, let me know. I like fast moving games that challenge my Gurps knowledge and posting / writing ability.

But if you are squeamish to let someone with two X chromosomes run your game, I getcha! :)

:) Your genetics are irrelevant!

Right now I'm looking for something a little slower paced - or at least, with deeper lulls between bouts of action.

In reply to Plonk (msg # 272):

You are always welcome for a GURPs Traveler game at

link to another game

In reply to Plonk (msg # 276):

If interested in DF, there is always this...
link to another game

Douglas Cole is releasing three more GURPS bestiary volumes in Nightmare Fuel. One book focuses on snakes, one on bugs, and one on evil plants: https://www.backerkit.com/call...da45cf35f016/landing

That's a great RPG, just checked the thread and it's got a lot fine details!

Currently, Bundle of Holding is offering a GURPS Horror bundle. The first tier comes with GURPS Horror, Creatures of the Night 1-5, and Infinite Worlds: Worlds of Horror. The second tier also includes The Madness Dossier, 5 Monster Hunters guides, and GURPS Zombies + Day One.

Also available is the GURPS Essentials bundle that was offered not long ago.

In reply to Mad Mick (msg # 281):

I've been wondering, have you been to "GURPScon" in Austin? Is it like a comic-con?

GURPScon? Do you mean FnordCon? SJ Games has hosted FnordCon periodically since 2019, but I've never attended. Maybe someone else here in the Lounge has been to one.

 FnordCon 6 is going to be online November 11th and 12th: https://www.sjgames.com/fnordcon/

It makes me sad that I just discovered Fnordcon was a thing. I've lived in Austin for a decade or more now (even visited their offices when I first arrived), and I just moved out of the country three months ago.

In reply to Mad Mick (msg # 283):

Right, FnordCon! Have any of you been there? Was it fun?

In reply to Big Brother (msg # 284):
I know! A friend used to live very close to Austin and he had no idea as well!

Some lost (e.g. spoof) GURPS titles: https://tabletop.social/tags/LostGURPSBooks.

I'd probably buy all of these. =)

Oh man. I broke into a broad grin at "Cod Wars"

Seafood and Honor in North America.

I can just see the trawler stat blocks all laid out.

Nearly peed myself laughing when I read the one about "GURPS - A Man Called Sloane".  When superfans showed the actor the game materials and invited him to play himself in an adventure based on the book and show, Conrad said:

"Get this nerd shit out of my face.."

LOL. I laughed so hard!

Now THERE'S a man's man!  lol

Sadly, I think some of these would be legitimately awesome!

Hey there, I hope you had an awesome holiday season!
I wish you an amazing year 2023!

Happy New Year!

Steve Jackson Games posted an interesting response on TikTok. (I'm actually surprised, horrified, and a little intrigued that they post things on TikTok!)

Someone said they should think about publishing a new version of GURPS, and SJ Games asked what people would want to see in a new edition: https://www.tiktok.com/@stevej...924320750894?lang=en

I'd love more adventures, personally, maybe make it easy for people to write their own GURPS adventures and self-publish them.

Players don't really buy adventures. GMs buy adventures. At the start, you've sectioned your market by 1/4 to 1/5. It's hard to make a business case on that basis.

The idea of making adventures easier to make may have some traction.

What barriers are you running into? Or better yet, what barriers did you tell Steve Jackson Games about?
This message was last edited by the player at 14:50, Tue 17 Jan 2023.

Hi, I'm confused on the rule involving buying up the Feint Techique higher than the skill.

If someone has a Sword skill of 12, what does it cost for feint 13, 14, 15 and 16?

In addition to the above, I'm also confused on how you buy Targeted Attacks.

Say I have a spear skill of 12 and I want a Targeted attack spear thrust to eye, its normally -9 to hit the eye.  What would it cost to, say, -4 to hit instead of -9?

Thanks...

Gurps is ... HARD!

In reply to Girl Interrupted (msg # 295):

Targetted attack are easy enough. Technique is Hard, so you pay 2 points for the first point of penalty reduction, and one point thereafter, up to a maximum of half the original penalty, rounded up.

So for example, Targeted attack, Eye, thrusting attack with knife. (Hot location, attack mode and weapon skill are all needed).

Normal penalty for Hit Location (eye) is -9, half of which is -4.5, which rounds up to -5. So you can buy off a maximum of -5, reducing the penalty with the specified weapon attacking the specified hit location (eye in this case) by 5 to -4 instead of -9.

This will cost 2 points for a 1 reduction in the penalty. For the full 5 point reduction in the penalty allowed, it would cost an additional 4 points, for a total of 6 points. Hope that makes sense.

Feint follows similar rules to what BlueDwarf laid out for Targeted Attack. Feint is a Hard technique that can go up to a max of Skill+4. The first level above default costs 2 pts, and it’s 1 CP per level after that.

With Sword-12, Feint (Sword)-13 would cost 2 CPs. Feint-14 would be 3, Feint-15 would be 4, and Feint-16 would be 5. Note that those costs are not cumulative. To improve Feint-14 to Feint-15 would cost 1 CP.

Oh, now I get it! Thanks guys!

The Print on Demand ACTION 1 cover is terrible. I think it would be cool for a different setting maybe. But for what I picture the ACTION series, this doesn't do it for me.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/p...URPS-Action-1-Heroes

Alas, you are right.

I wonder why they stopped using art like Rowena's*.

A matter of budget, maybe? Or perhaps the epic vibe escapes today’s people...

*BTW, did you know that Rowena passed away in 2021? May she R.I.P.

In reply to Jeffrywith1e (msg # 299):

Wow, Yeah, that's pretty bad.