Consider this - in every other SW setting, Bennies are something that can be used in order to retry a failed Test, avoid damage, or creatively influence the story in an unforeseen way.

In SPC3, they tell you Power Stunts are an integral part of the genre and encourage their usage, but only if you spend a metagame resource (Bennies).

That's akin to saying combat is the role of a Fantasy Fighter, but he can only draw the attack off someone else or defend another if he spends a Bennie.

Or Spellcasters can only cast spells if they spend a Bennie.  (With power points, this is actually baked into the rules.  Notice a melee combatant can keep swinging sword all day without tiring?  But that's a gripe I have with almost every RPG...)

My point being, in order to do something the writers declare is commonplace and expected in the genre, you have to spend a Bennie.  And just to make sure you play their way, they remove any potential work arounds from the rules then dress the replacement up as if they had done you a favor.

Sounds like you or your GM don't give out enough Bennies.

Most supers RPGs have a similar mechanic. In Mutants & Masterminds, you have to spend a Hero Point to do a Power Stunt. In the OG Marvel RPG, you had to make a FEAT roll which usually required Karma to succeed at. In Champions and DC Heroes, Power Stunts weren't a thing though the MEGS system sort of added power stunts but not very well, and you had to spend Hero Points to do them.

Power Stunts are not in the hero's normal power set, so they require extra effort. Hence, why a Benny is required.

Would you like to complain about Hucksters needing to spend a Benny to Deal with the Devil in Deadlands while you're at it?

On a phone so highlights:

Agree with the max penalty to parry/ranged but think I should scale to power level

The cap on Armor and Toughness needs to be relaxed or alternatively damage pools also need to be capped

Some of the individual powers have great reworks like the new Flight I like a lot, but others like the new Super Sorcery aren't worth the ink it would take to print them

Super Karma being tied to bases is weird

NPC section still not as useful as a collection of power templates would be

A few other janky things like a full set of extra powers for 2 points, I mean it's cool but everyone is going to do that

That's pretty good for a phone post, basically there's some really good improvements but there's also "wut" things.

Hoping they will revise a lot of it, can always adopt older rules, but hope it would be more of a personal preference tweak than having to completely redo it.

Do like the content on different  setting rules and styles.

You did see the part where I referenced playing in a game for 3 years without this ever being an issue, right?

The re-write relies too heavily on it and yes, there are a lot of GMs who are slack in giving out Bennies.

Karma in MSH was also Experience, so you got it much more consistently. Hero an GURPS systems didn't require the mechanic because their Generic structure and more complicated teamwork rules already allowed for it.

This is a poor design choice for SPC3.  It makes presumptions of certain playstyles.

Case in point, my existing character has a low level of Super Sorcery in a prequel encounter (3 levels, so max 3 points in a mimicked power) and used that to assist our Brick in a test of strength lasting multiple rounds.  Under the new rule, I would spend more points AND have to spend 3 Bennies (one per round supporting to maintain Stunt) in addition to the die roll.

Thus gets to be diminishing returns on resources invested.  It impacts playstyle.


Dealing With The Devil is a way to reduce cost of spells, yes I have a slight issue with it but the Huckster can be played and still cast spells without it.  Given Magic is 'present but secretive' in Weird West, it fits the trope.  SPC3 goes against trope as designers present it is all I'm saying.

(meh- all these are phone posts so may be slightly incongruent.)
This message was last edited by the player at 19:22, Tue 26 Oct 2021.

Essentially GMs are the arbiters of the Players' ability to creatively utilize their powers in power stunts.

With the caveat that PEGINC doesn't like the idea of tying abilities to Ranks of Advancement, I could see one free Power Stunt per Rank per Session (or per Setting Level per Session) and then use Bennies afterwards. Maybe it's referenced in some obscure spot, I'm still reading when I have time), but I get the impression this is going to be one of their most home-brewed house-ruled release.

To increase "Market Share" you have to cater to what has been defined as "The Market".

You see it a lot where a great but unique game is released and picks up a following, then becomes more generic over time.

A lot of the mechanics are welded on to meet the expectations of players from other games.

In the original Marvel Super Heroes, the first time you attempted a Power Stunt, the requirements worked as you described.   If successful,  each subsequent attempt to perform the stunt got easier, until after a certain number of successful implementations, it became part of the Hero's repertoire.

This isn't being treated the same way.  You aren't investing in a long-term development, rather you're presumably doing a "one-off" implementation that you'll never try again, or keep pumping Bennies into to duplicate.

These are design/development views that vary immensely.  But as a rule, Savage Worlds is mostly punitive.   Edges and Advances buy off/counter penalties as opposed to giving bonuses.

100% agree.  And like most companies that end up falling by the wayside, they end up doing so by isolating/disregarding those who got them where they were in the first place.

You play Savage Worlds (or any game) because it's different than the other game and you prefer it's approach, or you want a change of pace.

The Savage variations of well known IPs serves to revitalize both.

Have you brought up all this on the PEG Forum for SPC? That would be the place to do so.

Once I've had a chance to read through everything I might if it hasn't already been brought up by people who read faster than I and have more time to update the forums.

Wow - lots of new blood in here, definitely glad to see it

Please remember to be kind, and that arm chair designing isn't the same as what happens at the game table


I do agree that SW definitely relies on the GM giving out bennies as lot more than 5e does with GM inspiration

I have a question. How would you go about balancing the Arcane Backgrounds in SWAdE with the Super Powers Companion.?

One SWAdE uses Number of Powers along with power points. SPC uses points as well but they are a lot higher. What would be away to balance them.

In reply to LimeyDragon (msg # 408):

put simply you don't -- those two systems aren't meant to go together

In reply to Strickland5 (msg # 409):

So what you are saying is Heroes Unlimited is better than SWAdE for the setting i'm trying to figure out.

Not really - as Heroes Unlimited is a 80s game and definitely shows its age, perhaps Mutants and Masterminds would be more in line with your thinking?

But if you want street level heroes with Savage Words then the Arcane backgrounds in SWADE fit the bill and are "balanced"

if you want 4-star supers then go with the Supers Companion

I think the point is, the Supers Companion, as written, is meant to obliterate the Arcane Background rules in the core book completely.  As in they weren't meant to be used simultaneously or reconciled to one another.

You could probably do it but it'd be pure homebrew, tricky to balance.  It might work to use both simultaneously if you did a very low powered Pulp level game

In reply to Strickland5 (msg # 411):

I'm trying to create a Cyberpunk setting with super heroes (think Batman Beyond).

A bit late to the party, but what is SPC3? Is it a core update, or just one of the settings/supplements?

Either way, I prefer bennies as rare and special rather than as a common currency. I tend to think of them as plot armor and/or fate.

In reply to DarkLightHitomi (msg # 414):

SPC3 = Super Powers Companion ver 3 (SWAdE)

If you have Savage Rifts, the MetaMagic ranks (master levels) or the Master Level casters from Pathfinder for Savage Worlds might help.  The biggest difference will be you'll need to provide extra power points as Supers don't use Power Points and traditional AB using Meta/Master versions of spells will burn through points at an insane rate.

In reply to LimeyDragon (msg # 415):

Thanks. I only pop in occasionally so I miss the acronyms sometimes. :)

Definitely not how the SPC3 writers view them... they should flow like water.  It seems to me they want to charge Bennie for creativity.

I personally feel that if you want a point system to pay for powers, then it should be an explicit mechanic designed specifically for that purpose. Bennies don't make a good fit in my opinion.

Well, technically they're only used for Power Stunts - an application of the power outside of a preconceived purview laid out in the power's description.